72 replies to this topic

[william7]

Check out this video about the dead woman who came back to life after prayer. Her heart had stopped 3 times and she went 17 and 1/2 hours without any brain waves. Apparently, even rigor mortis had started to set in. What do you think of that? It must of been a miracle.

[Cyberbrain]

Here we go again.

I'm fairly certain god had no part in here revival. I've heard similar stories on the Discovery channel about people who had died only to be revived hours later.

Again why would god care about her and not the rest of humanity (and don't say its all part of god's plan again).

[william7]

Here we go again.

I'm fairly certain god had no part in here revival. I've heard similar stories on the Discovery channel about people who had died only to be revived hours later.

Again why would god care about her and not the rest of humanity (and don't say its all part of god's plan again).

May be God has a special plan for her like she said.

[forever freedom]

Here we go again.

I'm fairly certain god had no part in here revival. I've heard similar stories on the Discovery channel about people who had died only to be revived hours later.

Again why would god care about her and not the rest of humanity (and don't say its all part of god's plan again).

May be God has a special plan for her like she said.

The saddest of all is that elijah will keep trying to convince us and he thinks that he is going to be successful in convincing somebody here to adopt his delusions. Religion is such a viral and potent meme....soo effective in turning people into blind robots serving the meme.

As for the video i didn't even see it. I'm done paying attention to religious people's illogical arguments.

[william7]

As for the video i didn't even see it

You're just scared I might've found something that will change your thinking.

[zoolander]

Although I think the repeat is a mistake sam988 I think saying it a second time is justified. I'm leaving it

[Hi zoo, I thought it was a mistake too, and zapped it before I saw this -niner]

Edited by niner, 23 May 2008 - 02:35 AM.

[zoolander]

using fear tactics. How predictable. Elijah you are so naive

[Cyberbrain]

You know what, I respect elijah, but I think I'll stay out of this one.

Some people are simply stuck in "replay" mode.

[niner]

elijah, these death-like conditions are not unheard of. There are all sorts of tales of people suddenly sitting up in the morgue and things like that. I even heard about someone who was buried, but then dug up later for some reason, and there were scratch marks on the inside of the coffin lid. (If that turned out to be an urban legend, I wouldn't be surprised...)

[forever freedom]

Although I think the repeat is a mistake sam988 I think saying it a second time is justified. I'm leaving it

[Hi zoo, I thought it was a mistake too, and zapped it before I saw this -niner]

huh? what happened there?

As for the video i didn't even see it

You're just scared I might've found something that will change your thinking.

hehe yea i'm trembling.

[Shannon Vyff]

My heart stopped, two different times in my life, at age 4 1/2 and at age 12, God must have a purpose for me too! Spread the word of humanity's ability to engineer their future through science and technology

[b0gger]

May be God has a special plan for her like she said.

There is a lot "special" things happen. So many, that they look rather usual.

[Ben Simon]

Yikes Elijah...

Finding it interesting is one thing. Saying it 'must' be a miracle is another.

The fact that something is mysterious is not evidence for a miracle at all. I don't understand how my fridge works but that doesn't make me think that God is keeping it running. Rather I assume that the natural physical laws of the universe are such that fridges are possible, and that were I to sufficiently examine the object I would find my explanation.

Despite some evidence to the contrary, Christianity ought not require one forfeit their logic or curiosity and believe willingly in the impossible, and I don't think that it does. In the end Christ is vindicated by his principles - not his parlour tricks.

[maestro949]

As for the video i didn't even see it

You're just scared I might've found something that will change your thinking.

The only thinking it should change is what is the definition of death. Clearly it's not a.) having a heartbeat or b.) having brainwave activity 100% of the time as you can clearly live without these for extended periods of time and still be revived.

Either every thing is a miracle or nothing is a miracle. No cherry picking allowed.

[Ben Simon]

B0gger,

That video you posted is smug and preposterous.

[william7]

B0gger,

That video you posted is smug and preposterous.

I agree. There are a number of reasonable and rational explanations for why God does or doesn't do the things mentioned in the video.

[william7]

My heart stopped, two different times in my life, at age 4 1/2 and at age 12,

But you were no where near as tough a spot as the woman in the video.

God must have a purpose for me too! Spread the word of humanity's ability to engineer their future through science and technology

May be so, may be so. But it sounds like you have an over reliance on science and technology to do the job without God's help.

[william7]

I even heard about someone who was buried, but then dug up later for some reason, and there were scratch marks on the inside of the coffin lid

I heard about that too. I heard it was frequent before embalming became the practice.

[william7]

using fear tactics. How predictable. Elijah you are so naive

How so? I reread my original post but can't see any fear tactic in it.

[JonesGuy]

I'm not denying it a miracle: I hope the family grabs the bull by the horns and makes some improvement in their lives and the world.
Is there a case study written up? An AP story is rather low-quality compared to a case study. "brain waves" means something quite different from what the media thinks it means, as well as 'rigor mortis'.

[Shannon Vyff]

A friend's mother just had a heart attack, was hospitalized -her heart stopped a total of 5 times, over a week and a half--the fifth time it never came back 'on-line', and they are preparing a memorial at her Baptist church. My friend had in the past complained of her mother's devoutness in regards to certain issues, my problem with people attributing miracles to a higher power is that it could be a miracle her mother was now taken to her creator in heaven.

[Luna]

Revived after 17 and a half hours, that's remarkable.
Helps us know how long before deadly damage to come, yay for cryonics.

[Lazarus Long]

I read this story before ever seeing this thread and speaking of cryonics Winterbreeze, that is a very important aspect Eljah has glossed over completely in his presentation. Did you know that the patient was treated with hypothermia to slow all her metabolic functions and help prevent heart/brain damage, then after the declaration of death she was kept chilled and on life support as an organ donor?

The reason she awoke had to do with the activity of the physicians that were initiating the organ removal process.

Why would you look for a *miraculous* cause when a very significant physical and scientifically definable one that might advance our understanding would be ignored as a result?

[Lazarus Long]

BTW Elijah rigor mortis had not necessarily set in, that was a very *unscientific* observation of family members that probably confused some of the aspects of physical seizure for that post mortem state. Her heart was started after the claims of rigor. What is more interesting to me is that she showed no EEG for brain activity and yet clearly her brain could be revived.

[Luna]

Btw, why does it matter if there were no brain waves? I mean, it does matter and all, but it dosen't matter much in terms of reviveability.

And EEG would be nice indeed but not crucial.

EDIT: Just saw Lazarus Long post there (added this post before seeing).
Very impressive and good information, thanks!

Edited by Winterbreeze, 23 May 2008 - 02:34 PM.

[maestro949]

What is more interesting to me is that she showed no EEG for brain activity and yet clearly her brain could be revived.

Very low levels of electrical activity may exist that EEGs can not detect. The brain can remain in this state for many hours and even days and still be revived with memories intact. It's known that memories require no electrical activity and thus are stored strictly in the physiological structure of the brain and nervous system.

The reason she awoke had to do with the activity of the physicians that were initiating the organ removal process.

This is interesting. Perhaps it might lead to finding new ways to stimulate the nervous system to awaken comatose patients or those with little or no brain activity.

[william7]

I thought the case was pretty interesting from a medical point of view which is one of the reasons I posted the video. I was hoping some of you guys with medical knowledge would post something about it as you did. Thanks!

[Luna]

I thought the case was pretty interesting from a medical point of view which is one of the reasons I posted the video. I was hoping some of you guys with medical knowledge would post something about it as you did. Thanks!

Eliah, you are a very interesting and intelligent person.
Problem is with all the "it must have been a miracle", you are doing a very good job hiding your interest and real intentions in stuff.

[dr_chaos]

May be God has a special plan for her like she said.

Go prove it and shoot her dead. If you are right, god will bring her back.

I even heard about someone who was buried, but then dug up later for some reason, and there were scratch marks on the inside of the coffin lid. (If that turned out to be an urban legend, I wouldn't be surprised...)

Getting buried alive happened pretty often before there was modern medicine. To prevent it dead bodies were laid out several days in the past.

[forever freedom]

May be God has a special plan for her like she said.

Go prove it and shoot her dead. If you are right, god will bring her back.

No you silly. It would only prove that god's plan for her is so great that even after she dies god will still work through her and her life, like converting other people that will hear about the "crazy satan possessed lunatic who killed the kind god serving woman" and people will see how satan is bad and god is good.