• Log in with Facebook Log in with Twitter Log In with Google      Sign In    
  • Create Account
  LongeCity
              Advocacy & Research for Unlimited Lifespans

Photo
- - - - -

Nicotine patch for focus - a log


  • Please log in to reply
91 replies to this topic

#1 bgwithadd

  • Guest
  • 820 posts
  • 16

Posted 22 August 2008 - 03:15 AM


Moderator's Note:

The study below demonstrates that nicotine, regardless of administration method causes Smoker's Melanosis, and it is likely that by extension, whether specifically demonstrated or not, this action will accelerate the visible signs of skin aging by a similar uneven discoloration and an increase in the number of moles which smokers and their families get. 

The long-term effect of nicotine on the oral mucosa. 

 

Someone else suggested this and I thought I would give it a shot.

I'm surprisingly encouraged so far, but I want to learn more about nicotine to determine its long term safety before I take things too far.

Day one, just testing. I bought 14 21mg nicotine patches before. I assumed that they would not be very strong as they are OTC, but boy was I ever wrong. I tried one full patch, and in 20 minutes I started to feel waves of sleepiness, which is my general reaction to stimulants. Mood was also immediately lifted to an ENORMOUS degree. Feels somewhat like adderal, except much stronger at the same dosage leverl and with a much higher effect on mood.

I cut the patch in half but I still felt like I was 'speeding' instead olf just calm and relaxed. I spent an hour or so in the sun doing yardwork, and got quite a bit done, also some minor chores around the house. I sweated profusely, though, and had to lie down and watch tv a while. Dose still seemed too strong, so I cut it in half again. It seems for someone who has never smoked and is in generals ensitive to drugs, a quarter of a patch (~5 mg) is PLENTY. Much more mood enhancement than adderal, but not as much anxiety reduction or appetite decrease, but unlike adderal seems to raise my blood pressure five points. Luckily, I have low blood pressure already.

At 1/4 patch, the focus is definitely there, but no hyperfocus so that is good. I got interested in tv and spent a few hours straight watching it. Sounds silly, but for me that is unusual - I normally watch tv chopped into tiny segments or when I do lots of other things. Right now I feel 'in the zone'. Basically, normal, I think. How I imagine normal people feel, and if I were at work I imagine I could be responsive and handle my assignments well without getting too bored or distracted. I've had several conversations and was able to engage fully without wanting to cut them short. I was talking a bit too much/too fast on half a patch, but 1/4 seems to put me just right for conversation, which seems to be the best, easiest measure I have of how focused I am as it's one of my biggest problem areas.

Biggest worries are about health and getting addicted to nicotine. I'll have to research the health aspects before committing to it longterm, but since it is slow release I don't worry too much about addicition.

Effect seems much better than I expected, maybe enough to be able to drop adderal, which is a good thing because addy is expensive and annoying to deal with due to being a controlled substance and requiring psych visits which themselves are very expensive. The fact it's a 24 hour patch is great, too. I am planning for now to take it off at bedtime, but that might make it hard to sleep. It might make it easier, too. Hard to tell, but I don't want to build up a big tolerance if I can help it.


Edited by YOLF, 25 March 2017 - 01:20 AM.


#2 mystery

  • Guest
  • 117 posts
  • 0

Posted 22 August 2008 - 05:30 AM

Thanks for the detailed post! I might have to get some nicotine patches :)

I tried the gum a while back, and I did get quite a boost in focus. After a while I didn't like the effect though because it may have turned into a mild zombie like effect, or generally hurt my performance. But the initial effect for the first few hours or day or so was great.

Please keep us updated on how things are going.

Edited by mystery, 22 August 2008 - 05:30 AM.


sponsored ad

  • Advert
Click HERE to rent this advertising spot for BRAIN HEALTH to support LongeCity (this will replace the google ad above).

#3 bgwithadd

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 820 posts
  • 16

Posted 22 August 2008 - 06:40 AM

Well, the gum is highly addictive and 4mg is quite a lot, it seems, so I'm not surprised it hit you that hard.

In retrospect there was appetite loss. I didn't eat anything the whole time I was on the patch which was 9 hours. But, with addy it seems like I get an immediate "I'll never need to eat again" feeling at first which seems to dissipate.

#4 bgwithadd

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 820 posts
  • 16

Posted 22 August 2008 - 09:13 AM

Night one:
I feel HAPPY, even after having the patch off a few hours now. Not the false and uncomfortable manic blah blah blah mood that comes from being spun up too high from SSRIs, and not the giddy euphoria you can get a taste of with addy, but genuine happiness and contentedness. It makes sense since it works on the pleasure pathways.

Lying there trying to go to sleep I felt a deep contentment as if a beautiful woman were caressing my face tenderly or like a baby that was being rocked to sleep by its mother. This was surprising enough I decided to get up and post about it. Hopefully I won't end this tale addicted to nicotine patchs, licking them as if they were ice cream cones.

#5 synaesthetic

  • Guest
  • 230 posts
  • 0
  • Location:San Diego

Posted 22 August 2008 - 11:10 AM

I was worried about the addictive properties of the patch but others who have used the patch method have reported in threads that withdrawls aren't bad, that it's not really addictive how cigarettes are.
I have been taking 1/4th of a patch for about 3 weeks now (weekends off) and I don't feel addicted (yet!).

One thing I noticed was that on tuesday I went to work on a project like I had been doing on previous days but I had poor focus and was scatterbrained. It was because I had forgotten to put on a patch! I put one on and within a minute I had the focus again. :)

Edited by chemflip, 22 August 2008 - 11:11 AM.


#6 hamishm00

  • Guest
  • 1,051 posts
  • 93
  • Location:United Arab Emirates

Posted 22 August 2008 - 12:45 PM

The patch is much better. 21mg becomes fine after a while. I actually whacked on 2 x 21 this morning, and had to give up on that and rip one off - too much.

I've been doing gum and patches for about a 8 months to a year now.

I'm not convinced that nicotine is harmless, so I'll probably drop it eventually, or cycle it. It's probably not good for the arteries and for blood pressure.

If you are feeling sleepy, you should drop the dose, then gradually up it. If you drop the dose enough, it begins to have a dramatic nootropic like effect (although I'm not saying it is a noot necessarily). Nicotine is a two headed monster - small dose = high/stimulating, large dose = depressing/sedative effect.

I'm off the gum for two reasons i) it seems to damage or disrupt the digestive process and 2) it might cause tooth gum recession.

PS: i'm a non-smoker, always have been.

Edited by hamishm00, 22 August 2008 - 12:47 PM.


#7 bgwithadd

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 820 posts
  • 16

Posted 22 August 2008 - 04:32 PM

Be careful with the gum or using multiple patchs. A dose of 20-40 miligrams can be poisonous. Of course that's 20-40 at once and nicotine leaves you extremely fast. All stims make me sleepy actually, I was just shocked to feel ANYTHING. I put on a quarter patch today but I don't feel anything this time. Maybe I will do some mybraintrainer.com tests. I normally do terribly on the 'executive function' tests, so I will try those.

Wow, I just took one test and did my second best score. I got my BEST concentration score on it, too. Usually it takes 3-4 runs to even do tolerably on it. The effect is pretty obvious.

#8 mystery

  • Guest
  • 117 posts
  • 0

Posted 22 August 2008 - 09:20 PM

Be careful with the gum or using multiple patchs. A dose of 20-40 miligrams can be poisonous. Of course that's 20-40 at once and nicotine leaves you extremely fast. All stims make me sleepy actually, I was just shocked to feel ANYTHING. I put on a quarter patch today but I don't feel anything this time. Maybe I will do some mybraintrainer.com tests. I normally do terribly on the 'executive function' tests, so I will try those.

Wow, I just took one test and did my second best score. I got my BEST concentration score on it, too. Usually it takes 3-4 runs to even do tolerably on it. The effect is pretty obvious.


Definitely true. I don't smoke, and took two pieces of 2 mg gum. It made me nauseous and caused vomiting for a couple of hours.

To anyone reading this and planning to try it: start with 1/4-1/2 of a 2 mg piece of gum, and stop chewing if you feel nauseous, as that will stop releasing the nicotine. This is if you don't smoke.

#9 bgwithadd

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 820 posts
  • 16

Posted 23 August 2008 - 08:01 PM

Day two (yesterday):

Started with a quarter of a patch. I did not feel anything unlike the day before. I ran a few tests and my concentration was better than ever before, though. After some thought I decided to go to a half patch, but in retrospect I think it was still a tad too much. Seemed to have a lot more urge to get things done, and a lot more focus. Wellbutrin gives me more drive and adderal more focus, but nicotine seems to give me a bit of each. Also, I am much more fastidious. I have felt a lot of urge to clean things and I bought a hoover floormate to help get all my hardwood floors spotless. I have not gone into obsessive compulse range, but my house was just a filthy mess and looked like a dozen junkies had been living in it and without ADD meds I don't even notice it.

I went to walmart and I got really mad at their terrible customer service. Not one, but TWO employees simply ran away from me when I asked a question. I was livid. For a while I chalked this up to the nicotine, but I would have been mad regardless. Was I more mad, though? It's hard to say, but it's possible. I hope the nicotine is not making me manicky.

This time I left the patch on as I slept, and slept like a baby, though waaaay too long, but that's because I am taking risperdal right now. I'm seeing my shrink Tuesday, so I think I will hold off on the patches for now so that it doesn't make him thing the risperdal is helping. If I don't get vyvanse then I will continue on a bit with the log but so far the results are very promising and with stims you generally know in short order if they are working. The longterm risks are my biggest concern, but compared to actual smoking I am sure they are extremely light.

#10 Ben

  • Guest
  • 2,006 posts
  • -2
  • Location:South East

Posted 24 August 2008 - 03:46 AM

How crazy are the dreams on the patch? You haven't mentioned any yet. I know mine were out of this world.

#11 bgwithadd

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 820 posts
  • 16

Posted 24 August 2008 - 04:28 AM

I had no dreams at all. I had crazy dreams with wellbutrin at first, but not after the first few weeks.

#12 hamishm00

  • Guest
  • 1,051 posts
  • 93
  • Location:United Arab Emirates

Posted 26 August 2008 - 12:31 PM

How crazy are the dreams on the patch? You haven't mentioned any yet. I know mine were out of this world.


Yeah, that's why I pull the patch off well before bedtime, and let the melatonin take over.

#13 hamishm00

  • Guest
  • 1,051 posts
  • 93
  • Location:United Arab Emirates

Posted 26 August 2008 - 12:38 PM

Be careful with the gum or using multiple patchs. A dose of 20-40 miligrams can be poisonous. Of course that's 20-40 at once and nicotine leaves you extremely fast. All stims make me sleepy actually, I was just shocked to feel ANYTHING. I put on a quarter patch today but I don't feel anything this time. Maybe I will do some mybraintrainer.com tests. I normally do terribly on the 'executive function' tests, so I will try those.

Wow, I just took one test and did my second best score. I got my BEST concentration score on it, too. Usually it takes 3-4 runs to even do tolerably on it. The effect is pretty obvious.


There's nothing wrong with putting 2 x 21 mg patches on at once, and this has been tested this quite thoroughly in smoking quitters - although they showed unusually that it had no greater or even less effectiveness than a 21mg patch when it came to people actually giving up smoking. Although it is a high dose, it's a 24 hour timed release.

40–60 mg (0.5-1.0 mg/kg) can be a lethal dosage for adult humans. It is more toxic than many other alkaloids such as cocaine, which has an LD50 of 95.1 mg/kg when administered to mice. Anything well below these levels is not toxic, but there are other healthy considerations to take into account, especially the risk of blood clots and issues with peripheral circulation with arteries going to the extremities being susceptible to the vasoconstrictor effects of nicotine.

PS: The half life of nicotine in the body is around two hours.
  • dislike x 1

#14 DrHealth

  • Guest
  • 18 posts
  • 1
  • Location:london

Posted 28 August 2008 - 11:46 AM

I would strongly reconsider taking nicotine as a nootropic. Even via trans dermal route of admin (i.e patches) there a lot of negatives, too many in my opinion that they out shadow any short term cognitive enhancing effects. I've listed some below.



Nicotine Negatives

. Firstly for anyone who hasn't studied any basic pharmacology, nicotine is classified as a extremely deadly poison, its in the same league as cyanide.

. Nicotine has a very low LD50 (lethal dosage) of 0.5-1.0 mg/kg of body weight. So just 40–60 mg can be a lethal dosage for an adult.

. Nicotine is a vasoconstrictor (constricts blood vessels)

. Nicotine increases blood pressure.

. Nicotine causes the body to release its stores of fat and cholesterol into the blood.

. Nicotine increases the risk of blood clots significantly as a result.

. Nicotine impedes apoptosis (apoptosis is the method by which the body destroys unwanted cells - that otherwise could become cancerous)

. Nicotine stimulates blood vessels to grow. Cancers need blood vessels to grow and spread, and if nicotine actually makes that easier, then tumour growth might be easier too.



I was going to try the patches ages ago but after learning about nicotine I decided against it. Hope this is of some relevance.
Wishing you good mental health, Jonathan Rose.
  • Needs references x 1

#15 lynx

  • Guest
  • 643 posts
  • 5

Posted 28 August 2008 - 04:55 PM

. Nicotine is a vasoconstrictor (constricts blood vessels)


OK, so are loud music, noisy city life,bright lights-- and STRESS. Enhanced cognitive functioning reduces stress.

. Nicotine increases blood pressure.


This is not bad for all people, for someone like me, with low blood pressure, nicotine normalizes my blood pressure. Also for anyone interested in wearing the patch, all they need do is monitor their BP.

. Nicotine causes the body to release its stores of fat and cholesterol into the blood.


Uh, yeah, this is actually a good thing, storing fat is not one of my goals in life.

. Nicotine impedes apoptosis (apoptosis is the method by which the body destroys unwanted cells - that otherwise could become cancerous)


Chronic (patch) Nicotine also stimulates hippocampal BDNF release, which is great and it restores BDNF levels in PTSD models. Nicotine enhances LTP.

. Nicotine stimulates blood vessels to grow. Cancers need blood vessels to grow and spread, and if nicotine actually makes that easier, then tumour growth might be easier too.

Growth Factors are a double edged sword, when coupled with Mutations they can encourage cancers, however, Growth Factors are also blood markers of youth.


You have presented a lot of valid points against Nicotine and I just wanted to offer some balance. Other than disagreeing on whether enhanced lipolysis is good/bad, I concede that your arguments are valid--they just need to be weighed against the positives.

Seriously, I would give up my cell phone(carcinogenic) before giving up Nicotine patches, they are that good. I am also not planning on moving to the pristine Northern Canadian Rockies to avoid pollution because I value living a metropolitan life. It is all about choices and trade offs.
  • Agree x 1

#16 DrHealth

  • Guest
  • 18 posts
  • 1
  • Location:london

Posted 28 August 2008 - 08:38 PM

Interesting comments lynx. Its very true that we should way up the pros and cons. I cannot believe that the carcinogenic effects of nicotine has not been determined yet, it is in the grey area, undefined whether nicotine could cause cancer or not.


One could combat some of the nicotine negatives:-
High bp/vasoconstriction- Ace inhibitors, hmm no yohimbine hydrochlorid causes vasodilation and is easily obtainable.


My main concern is how Nicotine causes the body to release its stores of fat and cholesterol into the blood, leading to clotting :|o . If there was a way to combat this I might consider trying the patches. Maybe we should search for other nicotinic agonists that have less adverse effects!?





Jonathan Rose ......extra reading on this subject (http://www3.intersci...671448/PDFSTART)

#17 bgwithadd

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 820 posts
  • 16

Posted 29 August 2008 - 02:40 PM

The vasoconstrictor is the only one of those that should be of any concern. It's already been determined that nicotine is not carcinogenic by itself. Growth factors are more a good thing than a bad thing - cancer doesn't need growth factors to thrive, healthy cells DO.

Unfortunately after a few more trials I have found that nicotine seems to make me irritable. I am wondering if it's ramping me up into a manic state. So for now I will discontinue its use. I might use it as a 'once in a while' sort of thing.

#18 Shepard

  • Member, Director, Moderator
  • 6,360 posts
  • 932
  • Location:Auburn, AL

Posted 29 August 2008 - 06:48 PM

My main concern is how Nicotine causes the body to release its stores of fat and cholesterol into the blood, leading to clotting :|o . If there was a way to combat this I might consider trying the patches.


Guys, do you understand what you're saying? Nicotine increases epinephrine, leading to increased lipolysis. If you don't want to increase lipolysis, take insulin injections all day long and never leave the couch.

#19 DrHealth

  • Guest
  • 18 posts
  • 1
  • Location:london

Posted 29 August 2008 - 07:30 PM

Oh, so should the increased lipolysis not be of any real major concern, shepard?

#20 Shepard

  • Member, Director, Moderator
  • 6,360 posts
  • 932
  • Location:Auburn, AL

Posted 29 August 2008 - 07:47 PM

Oh, so should the increased lipolysis not be of any real major concern, shepard?


If glucose levels are high, absolutely. Otherwise, not at all.

#21 zocco

  • Guest
  • 32 posts
  • 0

Posted 07 September 2008 - 01:19 AM

http://www.scienceag...trunc_sys.shtml
Interesting article about nicotine and cotinine.

#22 bgwithadd

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 820 posts
  • 16

Posted 07 September 2008 - 03:13 AM

I haven't really kept up with this, but I have gotten over the irritability. I have been using half a patch all week. It does seem to help with focus a fair amount. I am not so sure I am getting tons done as compared to usual, but it seems to put me a bit more on the right track. Today I put on a full patch and I feel kind of sleepy, so maybe that is too much for me.

#23 zocco

  • Guest
  • 32 posts
  • 0

Posted 11 September 2008 - 01:55 AM

Quick description how i feel it for now:
I've been trying patches with green tea for about a week and this seems to be nice combination for studying.
Seems like i see more clear, more bright, less pressure in my eyes. First time it was a bit euphoric, but an hour later i become sleepy. I use 1/3 of 24mg patch, few times i used 2/3 and 1/6. If i sleep with it is different...hard to explain...I think i dream more and i sleep better(8 hours again, used to wake up after 4 and couldn't sleep back), but not always... If i am tired i fall a sleep quickly. When i wake in the middle of night for some reason i can easy fall back a sleep again. I also think that i feel better if cycle it at nights, like on night on, one off (need to test more). If i get tired, after a hour or less of resting i can be normal and awake again.
So for now i put patch and make some tea and go study. When i get sleepy i just make another cup of nice green/white tea and stretch, take some fresh air... Sometimes i shake legs(i do that sometimes without patch too), when i can't solve the problem. When i have feeling i won't do it on time, it can be weird not good feeling like very nervous and i start to sweat, but doesn't last long. I need to test this longer time to be sure of effects.
I sure feel better, focused, different or something with green tea and nicotine patch.

(sorry for engrish;-)

#24 bgwithadd

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 820 posts
  • 16

Posted 11 September 2008 - 03:51 AM

coca tea (very dilute cocaine tea, basically) is a lot better than green tea. Caffeine just has too much jitters. If you are going to use tea, this is superior.

#25 zocco

  • Guest
  • 32 posts
  • 0

Posted 11 September 2008 - 04:51 AM

coca tea (very dilute cocaine tea, basically) is a lot better than green tea. Caffeine just has too much jitters. If you are going to use tea, this is superior.

But that must be hard (illegal) to import to most countries?

#26 bgwithadd

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 820 posts
  • 16

Posted 11 September 2008 - 06:25 AM

In the US you can get it through amazon. If you get it directly from bolivia it will probably get seized, though. I am not sure about other countries, though. You'd need like 500 grams to refine one gram of coke, which is why it's legal - it's very dilute.

#27 JLL

  • Guest
  • 2,192 posts
  • 161

Posted 11 September 2008 - 09:41 AM

Interesting experiment. I might have to try this for myself, though I think I'll have to read up on the possible negative effects of nicotine first.

I've been trying different things for suppressing hunger while doing intermittent fasting, and so far coffee has been superior to tea (more caffeine). I've also noticed similar effects to what you've experienced with nicotine, including an improvement in concentration etc., as long I don't take too much.

#28 mystery

  • Guest
  • 117 posts
  • 0

Posted 11 September 2008 - 06:47 PM

In the US you can get it through amazon. If you get it directly from bolivia it will probably get seized, though. I am not sure about other countries, though. You'd need like 500 grams to refine one gram of coke, which is why it's legal - it's very dilute.


I had no idea, I'll have to pick some up. Thanks for posting this. ;)

Unfortunately after a few more trials I have found that nicotine seems to make me irritable. I am wondering if it's ramping me up into a manic state. So for now I will discontinue its use. I might use it as a 'once in a while' sort of thing.


If you stop using it for a few days, then is the beneficial effect much stronger? This is kind of how I use kava, and it's still extremely helpful when needed. I just can't get a sustained beneficial effect.

My theory is that a lot of substances (like nicotine, caffeine, maybe even alcohol) could be beneficial for ADHD, but they don't have proven efficacy because one could mostly only get a temporary benefit.

Edited by mystery, 11 September 2008 - 06:48 PM.


#29 bgwithadd

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 820 posts
  • 16

Posted 12 September 2008 - 02:20 AM

I think the irritation was a temporary thing, and possibly unrelated. I find that 1/4 to 1/2 of a patch is helpful but that over time tolerance builds up. It's still helpful, but not as much...just like all stims, I guess. Right now I have taken 5mg of adderal in addition to 1/4 of a patch and I seem to be about right except a bit drowsy, so it seems that it goes ok with addy at least at this dose, too. I am not sure how much I will use the patches, but it's nice they can be there to shore up the chinks with the addy as right now I am using IR since it's soooo much cheaper.

sponsored ad

  • Advert
Click HERE to rent this advertising spot for BRAIN HEALTH to support LongeCity (this will replace the google ad above).

#30 nancy_axel

  • Guest
  • 175 posts
  • -0

Posted 01 December 2008 - 05:24 PM

I think the irritation was a temporary thing, and possibly unrelated. I find that 1/4 to 1/2 of a patch is helpful but that over time tolerance builds up. It's still helpful, but not as much...just like all stims, I guess. Right now I have taken 5mg of adderal in addition to 1/4 of a patch and I seem to be about right except a bit drowsy, so it seems that it goes ok with addy at least at this dose, too. I am not sure how much I will use the patches, but it's nice they can be there to shore up the chinks with the addy as right now I am using IR since it's soooo much cheaper.



Could galantamine have an effect of limiting nicotinic receptor adaptation/tolerance?




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users