THe ultimate collaboration - Most effective nootropic
#31
Posted 12 March 2009 - 03:32 AM
#32
Posted 24 November 2009 - 09:04 AM
Shakhapushpi
Bacopa Monnieri
Withania Somnifera
Centella Asiatica
and I'm very interested in hearing people's experience with Clitoria ternatea
#33
Posted 24 November 2009 - 02:58 PM
#34
Posted 24 November 2009 - 09:19 PM
1) Approx half or more of the items on the list AREN'T cognitive enhancers, however, I guess nootropic is a somewhat vague catch-all term that could include anti-cognitive substances such as in this list
2) This list isn't all-inclusive. There are substances left out of this list that easily outperforms 9/10's of the items on this list.
But polls are nice I suppose. By no means is this Ultimate or all-encompassing or even accurate. You simply cannot count marijuana to be an effect cognitive enhancer with the amount of literature available that shows otherwise. I'm not an anti-marijuana advocate either I think its just a plant and has its uses as well as fault just like many other plants and substance do. It simply isn't much of a cognitive enhancer.
Most substances are wishful thinking.
A more useful way to approach such a list would to have multiple contributors that first work to compile a TRUE all-encompassing list, and ONLY THEN make a poll.
The list should also be divided into tiers. Skeptical substances such as marijuana should be on the lowest tier (so as not to be confused with something that is likely to actually be pro-cognitive), while substances with more evidence for neuroprotective properties should be listed in the upper tiers (things such as racetams, and others).
I know a lot of pot heads will get angry by my post, but I'm pro-legalization of ALL substances (anti-prescription as well) anyway so you're getting angry wrong at the wrong guy. I know you're likely to come back with the argument that marijuana increases creativity, blah blah blah, but I don't really care, the evidence doesn't support weed as a cognitive enhancer and even if it does temporarily improve creativity it is doing so at a cost. Nor do I like much of the music produced by pot-heads so the creativity thing doesn't inspire me in the least, Beethoven didn't smoke pot and I'm glad for it. Its just a plant, there is nothing so special about it that it is beyond critique. For, example coffee is my plant drug of choice and I realize that it has its faults and will freely admit it - I am not pathologically controlled by the coffee nor do I build up a counter-culture around my coffee consumption, if coffee was suddenly was gone I'd be sad for about 2min but would get on with life as though coffee never existed. I think the other properties of weed are getting confused with pro-cognitive effects. For example decreased inhibition is not a pro-cognitive effect, it is an entirely different aspect of thought. Perhaps as an anxiolytic weed might rank somewhere for those that tolerate it well.
#35
Posted 24 November 2009 - 09:43 PM
You left out ephedra.
I second Bobman's request. Those are some good herbs to add. I think Bacopa is already on the list though, bacopa has at least 1 legit clinical trial to show that it improves cognition in healthy adults
#36
Posted 24 November 2009 - 09:45 PM
#37
Posted 26 November 2009 - 10:01 PM
You seem to be an expert an kava.
I know it's two-edged swort. My decision was that the cons outweigh the pros.
In Europe there are many countries where it is forbidden by law to sell it.
Be careful with it!
Cheers
Agreed chatting on a health and fitness board and a South Pacific Islander said they just tank up on the stuff before parties and couldn't believe it was toxic.
In the UK derrivatives of kava are banned but a straight 1:1 dehydrated prep isn't.
I've never tried it. I don't see the problem if someone tries it, providing they are clear why they are taking it and have regular blood work. If Kava is causing a problem bad lipid profiles will flash up so just discontinue.
The other issue with herbs is that finding a good stock isn't easy. Rhodiola its easy its currently MBS (Mind Body Spirit). Gingko is Ginkgold.
Schisandra - I've my own source. For non-noots Maca (dehydrated juice prep), ginseng (6 year old root) and Hoodia I've my own source. The source is critical and variation massive.
#38
Posted 03 January 2010 - 04:49 PM
#39
Posted 03 January 2010 - 08:56 PM
#40
Posted 04 January 2010 - 08:11 PM
#41
Posted 04 January 2010 - 08:50 PM
Bacopa is there alright, brahmi is listed, that's just another name for bacopa
Yeah I missed that
#42
Posted 05 January 2010 - 08:52 PM
#43
Posted 05 January 2010 - 11:22 PM
I never tried bacopa but am expecting some by post this week, planetary herbs i think
So far it's been pretty good to me-better concentration/focus, some anxiety relief, and maybe some short term memory improvement. I've only been taking it for a little over 2 weeks so I probably won't notice anything significant in regards to memory/cognition,if i do at all, until 6 to 12 weeks, as a fairly recent study suggests.
I have to admit I did start Ginkgo at about the same time. I wish I had started Bacopa alone and waited 4 to 6 weeks to start Ginkgo. Unfortunately I could not afford to wait as I am starting a new job this week after not working for several months and my brain was hurting for a few different reasons. Ginkgo may have a subtle effect if any but I am hoping for some synergy between it and Bacopa.
Then in a few months I may consider adding Piracetam. Unfortunately, the last time I tried Piracetam I felt great and was so wired I could not sleep the first time I dosed it. Then I did not continue to feel so good on it and did not notice any benefits so I stopped. I was taking a good choline source at the time. My brain is very sensitive so I may not be able to take Piracetam though I am still very tempted to try it again.
#44
Posted 05 January 2010 - 11:22 PM
I never tried bacopa but am expecting some by post this week, planetary herbs i think
So far it's been pretty good to me-better concentration/focus, some anxiety relief, and maybe some short term memory improvement. I've only been taking it for a little over 2 weeks so I probably won't notice anything significant in regards to memory/cognition,if i do at all, until 6 to 12 weeks, as a fairly recent study suggests.
I have to admit I did start Ginkgo at about the same time. I wish I had started Bacopa alone and waited 4 to 6 weeks to start Ginkgo. Unfortunately I could not afford to wait as I am starting a new job this week after not working for several months and my brain was hurting for a few different reasons. Ginkgo may have a subtle effect if any but I am hoping for some synergy between it and Bacopa.
Then in a few months I may consider adding Piracetam. Unfortunately, the last time I tried Piracetam I felt great and was so wired I could not sleep the first time I dosed it. Then I did not continue to feel so good on it and did not notice any benefits so I stopped. I was taking a good choline source at the time. My brain is very sensitive so I may not be able to take Piracetam though I am still very tempted to try it again.
#45
Posted 07 January 2010 - 10:23 AM
According to this source, brahmi is identified as Centella asiatica (Gotu Kola) in north India. In Kerala, brahmi is a synonym of Bacopa. One would think that the scientific naming system should be the least confusing, but it is not perfect either. For some reason there are two scientific names for Bacopa: Bacopa monniera and Bacopa monnieri.Bacopa is there alright, brahmi is listed, that's just another name for bacopa
#46
Posted 28 February 2010 - 08:44 AM
According to this source, brahmi is identified as Centella asiatica (Gotu Kola) in north India. In Kerala, brahmi is a synonym of Bacopa. One would think that the scientific naming system should be the least confusing, but it is not perfect either. For some reason there are two scientific names for Bacopa: Bacopa monniera and Bacopa monnieri.Bacopa is there alright, brahmi is listed, that's just another name for bacopa
just to clear this up there is only 1 scientific name for Bacopa: Bacopa Monnieri. The confusion with Brahmi mist likely stems from the fact that Both Bacopa and Gotu Kola are used in the traditional crown chakra opening mixture called 'Brahmi' something. It has both herbs pepper and a frlew other herbs in it.
I guess Bacopa is already on the list, but from the research that I've read gotu kola is a far more potent neuroactrive substance. Dendritic arborization in the amygdala was increased about 216% or so if memory serves, in rats at 6ml and 6 weeks. Dendrite outgrowth increased by something like 169% at the same dose. The number of connections furthest away from the somal body increased tremendously as well. Another study showed that rats treated with 4 and 6ml (2ml had a lesser effect but still huge) literally went from spending roughly 296 seconds examining a previously learned maze (in the "retention test") to spending only 15 (4ml) or 10.5s. If this was a patentable drug Eli Lilly would be making billions and singing it's praises.
After I went through some harsh shit I was diagnosed bipolar type 2 and put on neurontin, lamictal, and wellbutrin. I was taking that stuff for 2 years and told Id never recover. I took myself off almost exactly 1 year ago, and have been taking gotu kola, bacopa, sam-e, choline, and fo ti for about 6 months. I'll tell you what, my mind is recovering from lamictal fog, and still not all there in some areas, but in certain ways Im significantly sharper than I ever was, and I am content, peaceful, and completely stable. Every few months I notice that my perception becomes sharper and depth of insight becomes greater. Information synthesis increasing. For a guy who got poisoned on heavy lamictal only a year ago, I can do 6-7 dual nback after very little practice, remember about 130 digits of pi that I learned in 30 min 6 months ago (at start of herb use), have a bunch of hamlet memorized, and I don't know... I had such bad amnesia from lamictal and neurontin that I once drove for 20 min on the highway and when I arrived at my destination didn't remember the drive. It's quite a change, and this is very early in the recovery process. I'm young so my mind adapts quickly, but I cannot recommend the stuff enough.
I guess the best way to describe it is that I feel healthy. Of course it is impossible to point to one thing and say that it was responsible but I know that gotu kola is a part of the equation.
Btw I you get a chance try this: cold steep gotu kola and uncured fo ti (chopped up) in a pot for 15-30 minutes (can use tepid water too). Put yourself a cup and grind some pepper in it. Heat up to desired temp. It gets you high in an entheogenic way. Chewing uncured fo ti is also very psychoactive. Read up on the histological and biomechanical studies behind these two. They're vey very interesting.
Tons of spelling and grammar issues: typing on my iPhone is dangerous work.
Edited by bobmann, 28 February 2010 - 08:48 AM.
#47
Posted 01 March 2010 - 06:37 PM
peace
#48
Posted 06 March 2010 - 11:19 AM
As far a "real noots" I really only take Picamilon these days, Cerebrolysin is ok too but I doubt I'll have a need for it any time soon. These two are the best in terms of the good effect to side effect ratio GABA-acting noots are hit and miss for me and Picamilon is definitely a hit.
I don't see how LSD can be a nootropic, since it completely demolishes your "linear concentration" but I guess if you're talking after-effects than it can prove to have those nootropic qualities.
#49
Posted 28 June 2010 - 02:48 PM
Perhaps we should have a similar poll with three or more alternatives for each nootropic, for instance:
Piracetam:
I haven't tried it yet
I tried it and liked it
I tried it and disliked it
#50
Posted 29 May 2011 - 07:10 PM
I suspect most people have just tried a few of these noots and are therefore unable to pick a favourite yet, at least I feel this way.
Perhaps we should have a similar poll with three or more alternatives for each nootropic, for instance:
Piracetam:
I haven't tried it yet
I tried it and liked it
I tried it and disliked it
Yes, that's a bit the issue of those polls; you'd have to make a separate poll for every nootropic - what nootropic is the most used isn't necessarily a good indication of its effectiveness; the most difficult thing would be comparing different nootropics because not everyone has tried a large array of the most common nootropics and many of those have different effects which are already hard to quantify in a research; it is practically impossible to quantify it from subjective data.
Maybe the nootropics should be categorised according to their primary functions and methods of action in the human body.
Dopaminergic nootropics, subdivised into DAR agonists, D-reuptake inhibitors, releasing agents - another category for NMDA nootropics, et caetera; though even then the comparisons would still be limited because there are so many different nootropics which all function in a different way. Urgh, sometime I really wish our body were as
#51
Posted 30 May 2011 - 08:15 PM
Edited by abelard lindsay, 30 May 2011 - 08:20 PM.
#52
Posted 28 December 2011 - 04:17 PM
So why not include it in this poll???
Mike C.
Edited by Mike C, 28 December 2011 - 04:18 PM.
#53
Posted 28 May 2012 - 06:24 PM
I've read that LSD has destructive effects on the brain, and that heavy users experience a deterioration of personality. I would have tried it, were it not for that. And I've never heard this corroborated by actual users though, unlike MDMA where this is very common knowledge. Have you experienced of any long term negative effects you attribute to LSD?
Haven't read the other posts past this one, but I want to chime in on this. Loss of personality is a very real thing, as I've experienced it (not due to LSD but 2c-e) and it has psychologically battered me for over two years. LSD and 2c-e and other serotonergic psychedelics typically do not cause any real neurotoxicity, what they do is cause changes in perception that can be lasting or permanent due to changing one's thought patterns. This is what I experienced. It was almost as if a large part of everything I had ever learned about people, myself, etc, had been magically erased. And it just didn't come back. Never came back. I'm on the tail end of dealing with the depersonalization I had been experiencing, but the only way I have relearned the things I previously knew (and had as basic social rules, etc) was through trying to force myself to relearn it. It has been -extraordinarily- difficult. I can't even comprehend why it happened to me, as it never happened to any of my friends that had taken it, but it was just fucked up.
Depersonalization due to psychedelics is a terrible, terrible, terrible, horrifying thing. I cannot imagine any other worse psychological trauma other than perhaps inducing schizophrenia. It makes you hate everything about your life and your inability to go back to where you were, forces constant rumination over "oh if only I had never done that, I would be perfectly fine right now" all of that crap.
It's really, really terrible. LSD isn't as bad as 2c-e as far as I'm concerned, but I know of people that HAVE experienced on LSD what I've experienced on 2c-e. I did it when I was 17, and feel as if that was what made it much worse. I believe it's less likely if taking psychedelics later in life, after having fully established a sense of self--which I had not fully established by the time I experimented with psychedelics.
Edit:
Another note to make is that it seems my serotonergic system has been screwed up terribly in one way or another, and as such I've found 5-htp to be very useful in reducing symptoms of anxiety/inducing a feeling of normality.
Edited by Izat04, 28 May 2012 - 06:26 PM.
#54
Posted 31 May 2012 - 06:52 PM
#55
Posted 07 November 2012 - 02:33 PM
I am curious to know why Bacopa is not on this list. I've just started taking Bacopa and hope to notice some benefit after a few months. Are people not having any noticeable benefits from Bacopa other than it being a mild anxiolytic?
Zero effects for me!
#56
Posted 14 January 2013 - 06:28 AM
According to this source, brahmi is identified as Centella asiatica (Gotu Kola) in north India. In Kerala, brahmi is a synonym of Bacopa. One would think that the scientific naming system should be the least confusing, but it is not perfect either. For some reason there are two scientific names for Bacopa: Bacopa monniera and Bacopa monnieri.Bacopa is there alright, brahmi is listed, that's just another name for bacopa
The correct scientific name is Bacopa monnieri.
My guess would be that a study using the incorrect name Bacopa monniera was published without proper proof-reading.
As for zero effects from bacopa monnieri all evidence I've seen points to the fact that this plant is slow-acting as a nootropic.
It's not a stimulant and it does not provide 'instant focus'. In the study that showed positive results, it was taken for 12 weeks first - also note that the effects were seen in elderly individuals and were not overwhelming - it seems plausible that the plant does little in young people who have not yet started to decline in cognition.
#57
Posted 15 January 2013 - 10:10 AM
#58
Posted 26 January 2013 - 07:13 PM
I reload the page every time!
Edited by mastercowboy, 26 January 2013 - 07:13 PM.
#59
Posted 16 September 2013 - 07:51 AM
As far as I know, there is no known toxicity for LSD. It's not going to fry your brain's cells. That doesn't mean that it's perfectly safe. A dose as "small" as 10 milligrams could kill you (psychoactive dosage is about 20 to 1000 micrograms). The risk is more psychological. The experience might come as a shock for some people, especially if it's a bad trip. It might feel so real that you might have flashback later in your life.
Disclaimer: I never used LSD and don't promote it use.
This is plain wrong. At 10 milligrams, you'll barely notice anything. Don't spread lies.
#60
Posted 16 September 2013 - 02:07 PM
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