158 replies to this topic

[eternaltraveler]

Insane? It is what is said in the Bible.

Can you seriously be this closed minded?

[thughes]

It is God's instruction to his Bride. God is the Bridegroom, and we Christians are the Bride of Christ. I forgot to also mention that one needs to be baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. Read the book of Romans to read up on this. It is the Word of God. It is to be abode by if one wants to be Christ like and enter Heaven. If you read the New Testament and prayed beforehand, thughes, you will learn a lot, more than any other book can give you. It is more relevant to any other book. God Bless You!

This is kind of like the "No True Scotsman" fallacy. If a Christian wakes up and realizes the flaws in their religion, if only they had prayed more beforehand they would be true Christians still... If they did pray, they mustn't have done it right, or not enough, or they weren't 'real' Christians to begin with... etc, you get my point. Its wishful thinking, pretty much. Its the way a mind hides from the fact that there may be some legitimate issues. Been there, done that.

Can I suggest reading some critical, non religious Biblical scholarship to give yourself a better view of why some people don't believe the Bible is a moral document? I don't have a big reading list here. Maybe Callahan's books (eg "secret Origins of the Bible").

And I stand by my "insane" comment. The world would be a much better place if people didn't actually think that believing the right set of irrelevant facts got them some sort of eternal reward. It is insane, and its completely beneath any God that might actually exist.

- Tracy

[suspire]

God is the Bridegroom, and we Christians are the Bride of Christ.

Any relation to the Bride of Frankenstein?

[brokenportal]

Its wishful thinking,

Its not wishful thinking, its faith. Its not a duck, its a mallard.

It is insane, and its completely beneath any God that might actually exist.

I want to second that quote.

[luv2increase]

Insane? It is what is said in the Bible.

Can you seriously be this closed minded?

Elaborate. Your wisdom is always welcome elrond.

[brokenportal]

Insane? It is what is said in the Bible.

Can you seriously be this closed minded?

Elaborate. Your wisdom is always welcome elrond.

Any elaboration would just fall on deaf ground outside the porch of a house with all its doors closed and locked. So if your that closed minded in deed then your request for elaboration is like a blind man hearing something on the radio and asking somebody to turn on the tv so he can get more about it.

Everything we've been righting here is an elaboration.

[luv2increase]

God is the Bridegroom, and we Christians are the Bride of Christ.

Any relation to the Bride of Frankenstein?

THE FINAL COUNSEL OF THE AGES


Revelation 3:18-19. "I counsel thee to buy of Me gold tried in the fire that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see. As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent."

The counsel of God is terse. It is to the point. He directs this last day church to one hope. That hope is HIMSELF. He says, "Come to Me and buy." It is evident from this phrase "buy of Me" that the Laodicean church is not at all dealing with Jesus for the Spiritual products of the Kingdom of God. Their transactions cannot be Spiritual. They may think that they are Spiritual, but how can they be? The works in their midst are definitely not as Paul would say, "God in you willing and doing of His own good pleasure." Philippians 2:13. Thus what about all these churches, schools, hospitals, missionary ventures, etc.? God is not in them as long as they are denominational seed and spirit, and not the Seed and Spirit of God.

"Buy of Me, gold tried in the fire, that you may be rich." Now these people had plenty of gold, but it was the wrong kind. It was that gold that bought men's lives and destroyed them. It was the gold that warped and twisted human character, for its love was the root of all evil. Revelation 18:1-14, "And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power, and the earth was lightened with his glory. And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies. And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, My people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities. Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled, fill to her double. How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow. Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine: and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God Who judgeth her. And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning. Standing afar off for the fear of her torment saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city, for in one hour is thy judgment come. And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more: The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble, and cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men. And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all." This is exactly the organized churches of the last day, for it says in verse 4, "Come out of her MY PEOPLE". The rapture has not yet taken place. The bride is not yet gone when these terrible conditions in this rich, false church exist.

But, there is a gold of God. I Peter 1:7. "That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth." The gold of God is a Christ-like character produced in the fiery furnace of affliction. That is the right kind of gold.

But what kind of gold does the church have today? It has but the worldly gold that will perish. It is rich. It is complacent. It has made affluence the major criterion of spirituality. The evidence of God's blessing and the correctness of doctrine, etc. is now based upon how many rich folks are involved in it.


"You had better come before it is too late," saith the Lord, "and buy of Me gold tried in the fire and then you will be truly rich." Are we getting it? Listen to me, "Naked (physically) we came into the world, but naked (spiritually) we will NOT leave it." Oh no, we are going to take something with us. What that something is, is ALL we can take with us, nothing less and nothing more. So we had better be real careful now to see that we take something that will make us right before God. So, then, what will we take with us? We will take our CHARACTER, brother, that is what we will take with us. Now what kind of character will you take with you? Will it be like HIS Whose character was molded by suffering in the fiery furnace of affliction, or will it be the softness of this character-less Laodicean people? It is up to each one of us, for in that day every man will bear his own burden.

Now, I said that the city of Laodicea was a wealthy city. It minted gold coins with inscriptions on both sides. Gold coins characterized the age - a flourishing commerce existed because of it. Today, the two-headed gold coin is with us. We buy ourselves out and we buy ourselves in. In the church, we attempt to accomplish the same. We buy ourselves out of sin and buy ourselves into heaven - or so we say. But God does not say that.

The church owns such phenomenal wealth, that at any given time she can take over the entire world system of commerce, and indeed a leader in the World Council of Churches has openly prophesied that the church in the foreseeable future should, could, and will do just that. But their golden tower of Babel shall fall. Only the gold tried in the fire shall endure.

And that is what the church has constantly done through the ages. She has left the Word of God and taken her own creeds and dogmas; she has organized and joined herself to the world. Thus is she naked, and God is judging her lewdness. The only way she can get out of this dread situation is by obeying the Lord to come back to His Word. Revelation 18:4, "Come out of her My people." II Corinthians 6:14-18. "Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with un-righteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing: and I will receive you. And I will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be My sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty." There is a price to pay for those garments, and that is the price of separation.

"And anoint thine eyes with eyesalve that thou mightest see." He does not say that you have to buy this eyesalve. Oh no. There is no price tag on the Holy Spirit. "Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law or by the hearing of faith?" Galatians 3:2. Without the Baptism of the Holy Ghost, you can never have your eyes opened to a true Spiritual revelation of the Word. A man without the Spirit is blind to God and His truth.

When I think of this eyesalve opening people's eyes, I can't help but recall when I was a little boy in Kentucky. My brother and I slept in the attic on a straw pallet. The cracks in the house would let the drafts blow through. Sometimes in the winter it would get so cold we would wake up in the morning with such colds in our eyes that our eyes would be shut tight with inflammation. We would cry out to mother, and up she would come with some hot coon grease and rub our eyes until the hardened matter was gone, and then we could see. You know there have been some awful cold drafts blowing on the church in this generation, and I'm afraid her eyes have sort of frozen shut and she is blind to what God has for her. She needs some hot oil of the Spirit of God to open her eyes. Unless she receives the Spirit of God she will go on substituting program for power and creed for Word. She counts numbers for success, rather than to look for fruit. The doctors of theology have shut the door to faith and forbade all to enter. They neither go in, nor let anyone else go in. Their theology comes out of a text book on psychology written by some unbeliever. There is a text book on psychology, one we all need; it is the Bible. It is written by God and contains God's psychology. You don't need any doctor to explain it to you. Receive ye the Holy Spirit and let Him do the explaining. He wrote the Book and He can tell you what is in it and what it means. I Corinthians 2:9-16 "But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love Him. But God hath revealed them unto us by His Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are Spiritually discerned. But he that is Spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ."

Now if all the things that the Spirit is crying out against are true of this age, we need someone to come on the scene as did John the Baptist and challenge the church as never before. And that is exactly what is coming to our age. Another John the Baptist is coming and he will cry out exactly as did the first forerunner. We know that he will because of what the next verse says.

"As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten; be zealous therefore and repent." Revelation 3:19. This is the same message that John had as he cried out in that religious wilderness of Pharisees, Sadducees, and heathen, "REPENT!" There was no other course then; there is no other course now. There was no other way to get back to God then, and there is no other way now. It is REPENT. Change your mind. Turn around. REPENT, for why will ye die?

Let us examine the first phrase, "as many as I love". In the Greek the emphasis is upon the personal pronoun "I". He does not say as many would feel He should say, "as many as love ME". No sir. We must never try to make Jesus the OBJECT of human love in this verse. No! It is the MANY that are the LOVED ONES of God. It is HIS love, in question, NOT ours. So once again we find ourselves glorying in His salvation, His purpose and His plan, and we are confirmed even more strongly in the truth of the doctrine of the Sovereignty of God. Even as He said in Romans 9:13. "Jacob have I loved." Does it now obtain that since He loved ONLY the MANY, is He therefore in a state of complacency, awaiting the love of those who have not drawn nigh Him? By no means is this so, for He declared also in Romans 9:13, "Esau have I hated." And in verse 11 the Spirit boldly calls out, "For the children not being born, neither having done any good or evil, THAT THE PURPOSE OF GOD ACCORDING TO ELECTION MIGHT STAND, not of works, but of Him that calleth." This love is "Elective Love". It is His love for His elect. And His love for them is apart from HUMAN MERIT for it says that the purpose of God stands in election which is exactly opposite to works or anything man has in himself. Because "BEFORE THE CHILDREN WERE BORN" He had ALREADY said, "Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated."

And now He says to His own, "As many as I love, I REBUKE AND CHASTEN." To rebuke is to reprove. To reprove is to 'expose with a view to correction.' Chasten does not mean to punish. It means to "discipline because the subject's amendment is in mind." This is exactly what we find in Hebrews 12:5-11, "And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children. My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of Him; For whom the Lord loveth, He chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom He receiveth. If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the Father chasteneth not? But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live? For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but He for our profit, that we might be partakers of His holiness. Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby."

Herein is now set forth the love of God. He desired in love a family of His own, a family of sons - sons like Himself. There before Him lies all mankind as ONE lump of clay. Out of that same lump He will now make vessels unto honor and unto dishonor. The CHOOSING will be His own choosing. Then those chosen ones, born of His Spirit will be trained to conform to His image in their walk. He REPROVES with all long-suffering and gentleness and mercy. He CHASTENS with nail scarred hands. Sometimes this Potter must take the vessel He is working on and thoroughly break it down in order that He may rebuild it exactly as He desires it. BUT IT IS LOVE. THAT IS HIS LOVE. ANOTHER WAY OF HIS LOVE THERE IS NOT. THERE CANNOT BE.

Oh, little flock, do not fear. This age is fast closing. As it does those tares will be bound together, and as a three-fold cord is not easily broken, they will have a tremendous three-fold strength of political, physical, and spiritual (Satanical) power, and they will seek to destroy the bride of Christ. She will suffer, but she will endure. Fear not those things that are coming upon the earth, for He " Who loved His own, loveth them unto the end." John 13:1.

"Be zealous and repent." Now this false church has zeal; make no mistake about that. Her zeal has literally been that of the Jews, John 2:17, "The zeal of thine house hath eaten Me up." But it is a wrong zeal. It is for the house of their own building. It is for their own creeds, dogmas, organizations, their own righteousness. They have put the Word out for their own ideas. They deposed the Holy Ghost and made men into leaders. They have put aside Eternal Life as a Person, and make it good works, or even church conformity rather than good works.

But God is calling for another zeal. It is the zeal to cry "I AM WRONG ". Now who is going to say that he is wrong? What is it that all these denominations are based upon? - the claim to originality, and that of God, - the claim that they are right. Now they ALL cannot be right. In fact NOT ONE of them is right. They are whited sepulchres, full of dead men's bones. They have no life. They have no vindication. God has never made Himself known in any organization. They say they are right because they are the ones that are saying it, but saying it does not make it so. They need the vindicated "Thus saith the Lord" of God, and they don't have it.

Now let me say this here. I don't believe that God is calling only to the false church to repent. In this verse He is talking to His elect. They have some repenting to do, too. Many of His children are still in those false churches. They are those of whom it speaks in Ephesians 5:14, "Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light." To be asleep is not to be dead. These are sleeping amongst the dead. They are out there in the dead denominations. They are floating along with them. God cries out, "WAKE UP! Repent of your folly." Here they are lending their influence, giving their time and their money, actually their very lives to these antichrist organizations, and all the while thinking it is all right. They need to repent. They must repent. They need to have a change of mind and turn toward truth.

Yes, this is the age that most needs to repent. But will it? Will it bring back the Word? Will it again enthrone the Holy Spirit in men's lives? Will it again revere Jesus as the ONLY Saviour? I say not, for the next verse reveals the astounding and shocking truth of the close of this age.

http://www.biblebeli...g.au/7ch050.htm

This is from An Exposition of the Seven Church Ages
by William Marrion Branham published in 1965



You may browse through the chapters here:
http://www.biblebeli....au/7chindx.htm


We are in the end-time folks.

Edited by luv2increase, 24 November 2008 - 06:50 PM.

[brokenportal]

Yes, we sure are in the end times, this is just a snippet of this list from here: http://www.bible.ca/...ate-setters.htm

Timmy sure better be good, because Dad is surely always on the verge of coming home any minute now right? Gees, a little bit of open mindedness sure doesnt bring any transparency to the whole matter does it?



1982
A group called the Tara Centers placed full-page advertisements in many major newspapers for the weekend of April 24-25, 1982, announced: "The Christ is Now Here!" and predicted that he was to make himself known "within the next two months." After the date passed, they said that the delay was only because the "consciousness of the human race was not quite right..." Boy, all these years and we're still not ready.

1984
The Jehovah's Witnesses made sure in 1984 that no one else would be able to top their record of most wrong doomsday predictions. The Witnesses record is currently holding at nine. The years are: 1874, 1878, 1881, 1910, 1914, 1918, 1925, 1975, and 1984. Lately, the JW's are claiming they're out of the prediction business, but it's hard to teach an old dog new tricks. They'll be back.

1984 to 1999:
In 1983, Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh, Guru of the Rajneesh movement predicted massive destruction on earth, including natural disasters and man-made catastrophes. Floods larger than any since Noah, extreme earthquakes, very destructive volcano eruptions, nuclear wars etc. will be experienced. Tokyo, New York, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Bombay will all disappear.

1986:
Moses David of The Children of God faith group predicted that the Battle of Armageddon would take place in 1986. Russia would defeat Israel and the United States. A worldwide Communist dictatorship would be established. In 1993, Christ would return to earth.

1987
The Harmonic Convergence planned for Aug. 16-17, 1987, and several New Age events were to occur at that time. The second coming of the serpent god of peace and the Hopi dance awakening were two examples.

1988
The book "88 Reasons Why the Rapture is in 1988" came out only a few months before the event was to take place. What little time the book had, it used effectively. By the time Sept 11-13 rolled around, whole churches were caught up in the excitement the book generated. I personally had friends who were measuring themselves for wings. In the dorm where we lived, my friends were also openly confronting all of the unsaved. It became my job to defuse to situations. In one case, an accosted sinner was contemplating dispensary action against my now distant friends. Finally, the days of destiny dawned and then set. No Jesus. The environment was not the same as Miller's 1844 failure. To my surprise, the taunting by the unsaved was very brief. I took it that people have very little understanding of the Bible, so they had nothing to taunt my friends with. I made one other interesting observation. The time for the rapture was a 3 day window from Sept 11 to the 13 - my friends had given up hope on the morning of 12. I pointed out that they still had 2 days left, but they had been spooked nonetheless.

1988
Rapture in Rosh Hashanna Sept. 1988 before Sept 21, Edgar C. Whisenant (Book: 88 Reasons Why the Rapture Will be in 1988 (cites Joe Civelli as agreeing with his conclusions)

1988

ANNOUNCING... "ONE OF THE MOST ASTOUNDING BOOKS OF THE GENERATION." Colin Deal, Author of best-seller. Christ Returns by 1988. "When Your money fails" "This book will prove to you beyond a shadow of a doubt that we are in the last moments of time. It is a catalog of fascinating facts. This extraordinary and explosive HANDBOOK OF THE END TIME may well be the means of the preservation of you and your family." Rev. Simon Polar Cameron, Founder/ President, Now Hope Bible College (Faith Acres), Peterhead, Scotland. WORLD WIDE MONEYCARD 666 110 205 419 386 968 Your FINAL CARD and NUMBER Is Ready! Is Assigned! Date U.S. plans to insert MARK on body. The Head/Hand Scan Machines are ready! Learn how YOU and others are NOW using the -666 SYSTEM,- including MASTERCARD, VISA, SEARS, PENNEYS, BELKS, Supermarkets, U.S. Government, European Common Market, Sadat. etc. "This book offers proof that we are in the initial stages of the Final Government System.'' Colin Deal, Author of best-seller. Christ Returns by 1988. "The dollar will be rendered utterly worthless. probably within 3 years." J.F. Smith. The Coming Currency Collapse. "HANDBOOK OF THE END TIME" Rev. Simon Pelar Cameron "THE DOLLAR WILL BE CANCELLED." Willard Cantelon

1988
Return of Christ: May 14, 1988; based on Founding State of Israel, May 15, 1948 Bill Maupin & The Lighthouse Gospel Tract Foundation, Tucson.; Rapture June 28, 1981; Figured a miscalculation; changed to Aug. 7, 1981 (Gary DeMar, The Debate Over Christian Reconstruction, Ft. Worth: Dominion Press, 1988.)

1988
Tribulation begins in 1988; J R Church (Book: Hidden Prophecies in the Psalms, clearly hints that 1988 will be the year.) "Psalms 88-94 seem to describe the future seven years of Jacob's Trouble in chronological order. This is not to say that the Tribulation Period will begin in 1988" (p, 246).

1989
After the passing of the deadline in 88 Reason's, the author, Edgar Whisenaunt, came out with a new book called "89 Reasons why the Rapture is in 1989." This book sold only a fraction of his prior release.

1989
Rapture in Sept. 1989; Edgar C. Whisenant (Book: 88 Reasons Why the Rapture Will be in 1988; The Final Shout: Rapture Report 1989) Revised his thinking after it did not happen in 1988; documented in book Soothsayers of the Second Advent, Wm. Alnor

1990's:
In 1992, David Koresh of the Branch Davidian group in Waco Texas changed the name of their commune from Mt. Carmel to Ranch Apocalypse, because of his belief that the final all-encompassing battle of Armageddon mentioned in the Bible would start at the Branch Davidian compound. They had calculated that the end would occur in 1995. After a 51-day standoff, on 1993-APR-10, 76 members died as a result of a deliberately set fire.

1991
A local group in Australia predicted Jesus would return through the Sydney Harbor at 9:00 am on 31st March, 1991.

1991
Nation of Islam Leader Louis Farrakhan proclaimed the Gulf War would to be "the War of Armageddon ... the final War."

1991
Menachem Schneerson, a Russian born rabbi, called for the Messiah to come by Sept 9, 1991, the start of the Jewish New Year.

1992
A Korean group called Mission For The Coming Days had the Korea Church a buzz in the fall of 1992. They foresaw Oct 28, 1992 as the time for the Rapture. Numerology was the basis for the date. Several camera shots that left ghostly images on pictures was thought to be a supernatural confirmation of the date.

1992
Oct. 28, 1992, Rapture; Full page ad in USA Today, on Oct. 20, 1991, placed by the Hyoo-go (Rapture) movement. EP News service quoted one sect, "50 million people will die in earthquakes, 50 million from collapsed buildings, 1.4 billion from World War III and 1.4 billion from a separate Armageddon." (99 Reasons Why No One Knows When Christ Will Return, by B J Oropeza, Foreward by Hank Hanegraaff, IVP publishing, 1994)

1992


"Some argue that nobody will know the coming of Jesus because the Bible says He will come as a thief. However, be alert, for He will come as a thief only to those who live in darkness, not to those who are in the light." The tract then quotes 1 Thessalonians 5;2,4 and Revelation 3:3 as proof for this assertion. Questions: Am I now "in the light" because I now "know" (??) it will be October 1992? Did the Thessalonians know this? What if an atheist read this tract? Ridiculous, isn't it!!! Our anonymous author continues. Jesus "knows and has revealed to thousands already!"

1993
If the year 2000 is the end of the 6000 year cycle, then the rapture must take place in 1993, because you would need 7 years of the tribulation. This was the thinking of a number of prophecy writers.

1994
In the book "1994 the Year of Destiny" F. M. Riley foretold of God's plan to rapture His people. The name of his ministry is The Last Call and he operates out of Missouri.

1994
Pastor John Hinkle of Christ Church Los Angels caused quite a stir when he announced he had received a vision for God that warned of apocalyptic event on June 9th, 1994. Hinkle, quoting God, said, "On Thursday June the 9th, I will rip the evil out of this world." At the time, I knew Hinkle's vision didn't match up with scripture. From a proper reading of Bible prophecy, the only thing that God could possible rip from the earth would be the Christian Church, and I don't think God would refer to the Church as "evil." Some people tried to reinterpret the Hinkle's unscriptural vision to mean that God would the rip evil out of our hearts when he raptured us. Well, the date came and went with no heart surgery or rapture.

1994
Harold Camping in his book "Are You Ready?" predicted the Lord's return in Sept 1994. The book was full of numerology that added up to 1994 as the date of Christ's return.

1994
After promising themselves they would not make any more end time predictions, the Jehovah's Witnesses fell off the wagon and proclaimed 1994 as the conclusion of an 80 year generation - the year 1914 was the starting point.

1994
John Hinkle On Trinity Broadcasting Network quote: "The most cataclysmic experience that the world has ever known sine the resurrection is going to happen." He said, God said, "On Thursday, June the ninth, I will rip the evil out of this world." TBN's Paul Crouch later said maybe something was happening invisibly. (99 Reasons Why No One Knows When Christ Will Return, by B J Oropeza, Foreward by Hank Hanegraaff, IVP publishing, 1994)

1994
Sept. 15, 1994: Last Day and Return of Christ; Harold Camping; Book: 1994 (pub in 1992) "Last Day and return of Christ sometime on or between September 15, 1994...and September 27, 1994." (p. 531) "I will be surprised if we reach October 1, 1994" (p. 533)

[luv2increase]

Yes, we sure are in the end times, this is just a snippet of this list from here: http://www.bible.ca/...ate-setters.htm

Timmy sure better be good, because Dad is surely always on the verge of coming home any minute now right? Gees, a little bit of open mindedness sure doesnt bring any transparency to the whole matter does it?

Matthew 24:36 KJV

But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

[brokenportal]

We are in the end-time folks.

[luv2increase]

We are in the end-time folks.

Scriptures are being fulfilled. Israel is a nation again. Pray to God and read the New Testament, preferably the King James Version or possibly the Amplified.





These are some excellent verses which I think will enlighten some of you. Just read them and open your mind for a moment.

1 Corinthians 1:18-27
King James Version


18For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

19For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.

20Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?

21For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

22For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:

23But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

24But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

25Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

26For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:

27But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;



Romans 1:20-22 KJV

21For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

21Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

22Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

[forever freedom]

lol, look at the last 5 posts (without counting this one). We are moving in circles...

[luv2increase]

lol, look at the last 5 posts (without counting this one). We are moving in circles...

My last one was back on topic. You may see all this as moving in circles, but I definitely see progress.

[Moonbeam]

There never was a human sacrifice.

just believe in Jesus Christ and that He died on the cross for our sins.

He doesn't count as a human? Kind of silly to count him as "dying" then, if he wasn't human to begin with. Not such a big sacrifice after all, in that case.

[thughes]

18For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

19For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.

20Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?

See now, if I had a religion that more intelligent or learned people were not falling for in droves, thats exactly the sort of thing I'd say to the masses to prevent them from going "hmmm, if the smart people aren't falling for this maybe I should think twice".

As much as that's tongue in cheek =) its also I suspect the real motivation behind these biblical quotes. They are there to prevent you from questioning, no matter how well thought out your opposition is or how good their arguments. Don't fall for it!

- Tracy

[brokenportal]

lol, look at the last 5 posts (without counting this one). We are moving in circles...

To clarify, this was sarcasm:

Yes, we sure are in the end times, this is just a snippet of this list from here: http://www.bible.ca/...ate-setters.htm

As to this:

Scriptures are being fulfilled. Israel is a nation again. Pray to God and read the New Testament, preferably the King James Version or possibly the Amplified.

You can say most any general thing and it will eventually happen, "Turkey will fight a great battle in a woods" "A man with brown hair will rule from a mountain top" I mean come now, seriously. You cant tell me you havent noticed the psycics trick.

Take this awsome coincidence for instance, I suppose a wizard magiced this one up:

1) Lincoln was elected in 1860, Kennedy in 1960, 100 years apart
2) Both men were deeply involved in civil rights for African Americans.
3) Both men were assassinated on a Friday, in the presence of their wives.
4) Each wife had lost a child while living at the White House.
5) Both men were killed by a bullet that entered the head from behind.
6) Lincoln was killed in Ford's Theater. Kennedy met his death while riding in a Lincoln convertible made by the Ford Motor Company.
7) Both men were succeeded by vice-presidents named Johnson who were southern Democrats and former senators.
8) Andrew Johnson was born in 1808. Lyndon Johnson was born in 1908, exactly one hundred years later.
9) The first name of Lincoln's private secretary was John, the last name of Kennedy's private secretary was Lincoln.
10) John Wilkes Booth was born in 1839 [according to some sources] Lee Harvey Oswald was born in 1939, one hundred years later.
11) Both assassins were Southerners who held extremist views.
12) Both assassins were murdered before they could be brought to trial.
13) Booth shot Lincoln in a theater and fled to a warehouse. Oswald shot Kennedy from a warehouse and fled to a theater.
14) LlNCOLN and KENNEDY each has 7 letters.
15) ANDREW JOHNSON and LYNDON JOHNSON each has 13 letters.
16) JOHN WlLKES BOOTH and LEE HARVEY OSWALD each has 15 letters.
17) A Licoln staffer Miss Kennedy told him not to go to the Theater. A Kennedy staffer Miss Lincoln, told him not to go to Dallas.


As for this:

These are some excellent verses which I think will enlighten some of you. Just read them and open your mind for a moment.

Ide have to agree with this:

See now, if I had a religion that more intelligent or learned people were not falling for in droves, thats exactly the sort of thing I'd say to the masses to prevent them from going "hmmm, if the smart people aren't falling for this maybe I should think twice".

As much as that's tongue in cheek =) its also I suspect the real motivation behind these biblical quotes. They are there to prevent you from questioning, no matter how well thought out your opposition is or how good their arguments. Don't fall for it!

- Tracy

[Shepard]

Once again, the Cult of Caligula welcomes all non-Christians and general lovers of debauchery.

[thughes]

Only if I get to wear a toga, and someone feeds me peeled grapes.

[platypus]

There is no need to do animal or human sacrifices anymore; just believe in Jesus Christ and that He died on the cross for our sins.

Oh, so why Yahweh and Satan are still consipiring together in order to burn and torture billions of souls for all eternity? I guess Jesus was not enought to quench the bloodthirst of your bronze-age warrior-god...

[luv2increase]

1 Corinthians 1:18

For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

[suspire]

Once again, the Cult of Caligula welcomes all non-Christians and general lovers of debauchery.

I'm still fixated on this Bride of Christ thing. First, he's our father, now he's our husband. I suspect some pretty freaky family dynamics here.

Caligula, eat your heart out.

[eternaltraveler]

1 Corinthians 1:18

For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

you do realize that you continually quoting bible verses just makes us think you are closed minded and delusional right?

You know they mean nothing to us. Why do you try to use them to back up your points?

[Brainbox]

Circle illusion.

Running round in circles. But the circles are stationary. It's an illusion. Like this thread that is just some form of circular movement at best. But in fact it stands still. Even the " leading nowhere" part is a cruel illusion. It's a lot worse than that.

Edited by Brainbox, 25 November 2008 - 04:34 PM.

[luv2increase]

Let the hatred and ill words begin...


Why does this anger any of you? For those whom are so open-minded, I am surprised from this behavior which is being portrayed by the most recent of posters.



Back to the topic at hand since it has become very obvious that Bible verses and the Word of God it disturbing the good nature within some of you.




Question 1:
Was matter always here?

Question 2:
Was the blueprints for life always here?

Question 3:
Or, was life always here?

Question 4:
If yes to any of the above, how?

[bran319]

This is a good thread but a bit silly. Neither side can prove their argument, both are taking it on "faith".

I think an even grander question is this:

If we are products of evolution, and have evolved from lower life forms to our current state all the time subject to the harsh realities of the physical world and it's uncaring and unyeilding laws of nature, how did we ever create the notion of a God in the first place? And once we as a species did this, how did we come to attribute him, or it, or she, to be a good, loving and merciful God whose divine laws scream opposite to our own very natural instincts and yet are desirable to follow and strive for?

I see nothing in nature, or in evolution that could explain where we got the notion of the divine and morality.

[forever freedom]

I see nothing in nature, or in evolution that could explain where we got the notion of the divine and morality.

They're both no more than devices of nature to maximize the chances of survival of the species.

[brokenportal]

Why does this anger any of you? For those whom are so open-minded, I am surprised from this behavior which is being portrayed by the most recent of posters.

Back to the topic at hand since it has become very obvious that Bible verses and the Word of God it disturbing the good nature within some of you.

Question 1:
Was matter always here?

Question 2:
Was the blueprints for life always here?

Question 3:
Or, was life always here?

Question 4:
If yes to any of the above, how?

It concerns, not so much as angers me, because spreading lies and falsehoods, whether unintentional or not, is harmful and can be detrimental to figuring out the truth. That should go with out saying, but apparently it doesnt. I think there are a list of certain reasons to want to be alive,

To know:
- the nature of infinity
- if there is a god, gods, no god, or something else
- how we got here
- how the universe got here
- what all else is out there like hover ability, light speed, aliens, populated galaxies, dimensions or whatever there may be.
- to know the all forms and extents of all pleasures current and undiscovered.
- to fulfill all goals that time brings you to want, resteraunt owner, pro football, climbing mountains etc..
- universal elimination of fallacy (which causes a bunch of things, philosophy to work its self out, the best good for all etc..)

That list is under debate but that is the jist of it. The way we answer your questions there is through an honest pursuit of life and life extension. People that are busy claiming that there are magical beings in another dimension waiting to bring us to an eternal utopia are tricking themselves and people that could other wise be helping us pursue the very crucial and critical truths of existence and the universe.

[luv2increase]

It concerns, not so much as angers me, because spreading lies and falsehoods, whether unintentional or not, is harmful and can be detrimental to figuring out the truth. That should go with out saying, but apparently it doesnt. I think there are a list of certain reasons to want to be alive,

To know:
- the nature of infinity
- if there is a god, gods, no god, or something else
- how we got here
- how the universe got here
- what all else is out there like hover ability, light speed, aliens, populated galaxies, dimensions or whatever there may be.
- to know the all forms and extents of all pleasures current and undiscovered.
- to fulfill all goals that time brings you to want, resteraunt owner, pro football, climbing mountains etc..
- universal elimination of fallacy (which causes a bunch of things, philosophy to work its self out, the best good for all etc..)

That list is under debate but that is the jist of it. The way we answer your questions there is through an honest pursuit of life and life extension. People that are busy claiming that there are magical beings in another dimension waiting to bring us to an eternal utopia are tricking themselves and people that could other wise be helping us pursue the very crucial and critical truths of existence and the universe.

Notice the words I've highlighted; you contradict yourself. How can you say for sure that something is a lie when it is still under debate? Hmmm...

You cannot say for certain there is no Creator. You would rather believe the whole universe started from something the size of a golf ball as we know it. I'd say that is more magical than anything else. Who is the mystic here, you all or me?

[HereInTheHole]

This is a good thread but a bit silly. Neither side can prove their argument, both are taking it on "faith".

I think an even grander question is this:

If we are products of evolution, and have evolved from lower life forms to our current state all the time subject to the harsh realities of the physical world and it's uncaring and unyeilding laws of nature, how did we ever create the notion of a God in the first place? And once we as a species did this, how did we come to attribute him, or it, or she, to be a good, loving and merciful God whose divine laws scream opposite to our own very natural instincts and yet are desirable to follow and strive for?

I see nothing in nature, or in evolution that could explain where we got the notion of the divine and morality.

Morality is easily explained. Social creatures need built-in rules for behavior. Without those rules, the social structure collapses. Ants have rules. Ducks have them. We have them. Our natural instincts are not to kill kill kill. We are not in constant opposition to our base natures. Our base nature is, in fact, what guides us most of the time and it does a good job. In most of us, that base nature includes some serious repulsion to hurting and killing. Despite repeated attempts, religion has never had a strong enough hold of our behavior to give credit to religion (or god) when we act nice.

The divine -- especially the belief in a god -- I think of as a sublimation of our built-in impulse to follow someone more powerful than ourselves and to be part of a system that will protect us. The built-in rules at work again. The social rules in us are so powerful that we imagine they're everywhere, even outside of us. It's like seeing dragons in clouds or Jesus in burnt pieces of toast. Our minds are not too discriminate about applying our special abilities -- whether facial recognition or the need to follow -- to everything and anything.

Those points could be made with more finesse than that, but you have the ideas.

Edited by NarrativiumX, 25 November 2008 - 09:30 PM.

[luv2increase]

Some aspects of it I think of as a sublimation of our built-in impulse to follow someone more powerful than ourselves.

Interesting. I wonder if this is why individuals with big egos don't like authority, the thought of possible implications of their sins, and the notion of someone more supreme than themselves, God?