354 replies to this topic

[rwac]

I just got my CD-57 tested, and looks like it's up to 72 from the original value of 26.

Have you done any testing recently ?
Would you say that you're feeling better symptom wise ?

I feel I can think pretty clearly now, but the fatigue is still a big problem.

Or maybe my dopamine is too low because of the lithium orotate I'm taking.

Edited by rwac, 25 November 2009 - 03:38 AM.

[orbital]

Apologies if this has been dealt with elsewhere in the forum, but has your earlier enthusiasm for Pramipexole and Memantine dissipated or have they been dropped because you're wary of interactions with other meds you're taking?

[FunkOdyssey]

Have you done any testing recently ?
Would you say that you're feeling better symptom wise ?

I have not done any recent testing besides the standard CBC, metabolic panel stuff. My platelets and WBC are still low. However, I do feel pretty good in general these days, better than I have in a long time, so that is promising.

Apologies if this has been dealt with elsewhere in the forum, but has your earlier enthusiasm for Pramipexole and Memantine dissipated or have they been dropped because you're wary of interactions with other meds you're taking?

My earlier enthusiasm for pramipexole has definitely dissipated, too many side effects both physical and mental, including undesirable changes in personality and behavior. Memantine I am still enthusiastic about but I am not taking it at this time. Should I take vyvanse again in the future I will take it again.

I updated the regimen on the first page. Here are the changes with explanations:

Removed:
Twinlab Citrus Bioflavonoids - replaced with diosmin/hesperiden in VaricoVein
Now Choline+Inositol - made me gassy, can't seem to assimilate inositol powder well
LEF Pyridoxamine - discontinued, they must have finally caved to FDA pressure :(

Changed:
Citicholine - changed from 250mg BID to 250mg TID
P5P - taking 50mg BID rather than 100mg QD

Added:
Country Life VaricoVein - better researched than citrus bioflavonoids, no naringen
LEF Super BIO-Curcumin - I was having a great deal of IMO unwarranted joint pain as a result of my modest weight training regimen, probably a result of Lyme. This product fixed it entirely. I remain a bit wary of pharmacological curcumin but I NEED to continue exercising and this makes it possible. 400mg BID.

Edited by FunkOdyssey, 07 December 2009 - 09:08 PM.

[nameless]

VaricoVein looks like a good bioflavanoid replacement, but why does is say to take it for no longer than three months?

And for joint pain, have you ever tried cetyl myristoleate or Celadrin (both seem more or less the same thing)? My astaxanthin experiment for joint pain hasn't showed much in the way of benefits, and I've been considering trying cetyl myristoleate next.

[FunkOdyssey]

VaricoVein looks like a good bioflavanoid replacement, but why does is say to take it for no longer than three months?

And for joint pain, have you ever tried cetyl myristoleate or Celadrin (both seem more or less the same thing)? My astaxanthin experiment for joint pain hasn't showed much in the way of benefits, and I've been considering trying cetyl myristoleate next.

I have no idea where the three month recommendation comes from. I've never tried cetyl myristoleate but its interesting and I'm reading up on it now.

[FunkOdyssey]

Updated regimen on the first page, both mine and Olga's. You will notice I have tightened up the regimen considerably. Removed a bunch of anti-inflammatory supplements that were preventing my elbow from healing properly. Made some changes to vitamin/mineral intake based on results of plugging daily diet into crono-meter. Summary of interesting findings:

• Omega 6:Omega 3 ratio of my diet is roughly 10:1 despite avoidance of vegetable oils.
• High Copper:Zinc ratio
• Disturbingly low Vitamin C

Reducing Multi-Basics to 2 caps daily in response to generally good dietary micronutrient profile, and removing several other supplemental vitamins. I'm adding 3.24g of ALA from flaxseed oil (improves ratio to 4:1) and eating an orange every day. Added lycopene since I don't eat cooked/processed tomato products.

I tried IP6 at a possibly overzealous dose of 1.5g for a few weeks and it knocked my serum iron down from a healthy 100mcg/dL to a deficient 30mcg/dL. Pulled that out of the regimen today and will retest in a month.

I noticed that I was consistently fatigued and spacey about 30-90 minutes after my whey protein shakes. A trial replacement with pea protein confirmed that whey was causing the problem, so I'm now using pea protein instead.

I received a prescription for Focalin (dexmethylphenidate) which I am going to experiment with as an alternative to vyvanse. Vyvanse works well but I rarely use it as I am too concerned about its long-term effects.

I'm on a break from ABX right now that I began in December to enjoy the holidays. It is about time to get moving again and try tinidazole which I've always been too scared to mess with.

I know I neglected to explain a multitude of other changes, so if you notice something different feel free to inquire about it.

[Diatribe]

Updated regimen on the first page, both mine and Olga's. You will notice I have tightened up the regimen considerably. Removed a bunch of anti-inflammatory supplements that were preventing my elbow from healing properly. Made some changes to vitamin/mineral intake based on results of plugging daily diet into crono-meter. Summary of interesting findings:

• Omega 6:Omega 3 ratio of my diet is roughly 10:1 despite avoidance of vegetable oils.
• High Copper:Zinc ratio
• Disturbingly low Vitamin C

Reducing Multi-Basics to 2 caps daily in response to generally good dietary micronutrient profile, and removing several other supplemental vitamins. I'm adding 3.24g of ALA from flaxseed oil (improves ratio to 4:1) and eating an orange every day. Added lycopene since I don't eat cooked/processed tomato products.

I tried IP6 at a possibly overzealous dose of 1.5g for a few weeks and it knocked my serum iron down from a healthy 100mcg/dL to a deficient 30mcg/dL. Pulled that out of the regimen today and will retest in a month.

I noticed that I was consistently fatigued and spacey about 30-90 minutes after my whey protein shakes. A trial replacement with pea protein confirmed that whey was causing the problem, so I'm now using pea protein instead.

I received a prescription for Focalin (dexmethylphenidate) which I am going to experiment with as an alternative to vyvanse. Vyvanse works well but I rarely use it as I am too concerned about its long-term effects.

I'm on a break from ABX right now that I began in December to enjoy the holidays. It is about time to get moving again and try tinidazole which I've always been too scared to mess with.

I know I neglected to explain a multitude of other changes, so if you notice something different feel free to inquire about it.

Just wondering why no aor-ortho core and just the basic multi?

[rwac]

I noticed that I was consistently fatigued and spacey about 30-90 minutes after my whey protein shakes. A trial replacement with pea protein confirmed that whey was causing the problem, so I'm now using pea protein instead.

Could it have been the casein ?
Might be worth trying whey isolate.

[FunkOdyssey]

Not casein -- I was using ultrafiltration whey protein isolate which is supposed to be some really high-end stuff. Also, I eat cheese fairly often and I don't really notice anything negative from it.

Ortho-Core has too many extras that I don't want, including r-lipoic acid and NAC.

Edited by FunkOdyssey, 21 January 2010 - 06:04 PM.

[nameless]

A couple of questions:

What's the half-life for A (retinol)? Noticed your once weekly supplement there, and curious if a smaller dose taken every 2-3 days may be better.

Any concerns with ALA and prostate cancer? Studies appear conflicting, and I believe a somewhat recent and large study showed no correlation... but it could still be a concern. I also thought ALA converted pretty crummy to EPA in most people (or men, anyway)? Also thought ground flaxseeds were supposedly better than the oil, due to oxidation -- although I suppose grinding fresh flaxseeds daily could be a pain too.

Why did you drop the Navitas? I just started it, and it makes a great hot cocoa.

And why did you drop the ginger? You previously seemed big on it. I tried it recently for several days and it did help my belly... although I have some concerns taking it daily too.

As for Omega 6:3 ratio, have you considered getting it tested instead of cronometer? I tried measuring it via cronometer, and couldn't get it accurate (too many foods didn't list actual omega contents)... so I had it measured with a blood test instead. Mayo does an essential fatty acid profile, which shows a ton of fat info, so if you have a doc who doesn't mind writing scripts, it could be worth it. My doctor just put 'Omega 3s' on the script, and the lab knew which test to run.

[FunkOdyssey]

A couple of questions:

What's the half-life for A (retinol)? Noticed your once weekly supplement there, and curious if a smaller dose taken every 2-3 days may be better.

Possibly, but I think the purpose of dosing is more to top up liver stores than to provide the circulating vitamin (or hormone, depending on how you look at it).

Any concerns with ALA and prostate cancer? Studies appear conflicting, and I believe a somewhat recent and large study showed no correlation... but it could still be a concern. I also thought ALA converted pretty crummy to EPA in most people (or men, anyway)? Also thought ground flaxseeds were supposedly better than the oil, due to oxidation -- although I suppose grinding fresh flaxseeds daily could be a pain too.

I don't think the evidence is strong enough for the ALA - prostate cancer link. ALA does convert to EPA pretty crummy in men. And yet, it is the only essential Omega-3 fatty acid. And EPA is found only in seafood which few of our ancestors ate. So what gives? Perhaps the low conversion of ALA - EPA reflects purposeful evolutionary design, rather than some inherent flaw we should aim to overpower with massive EPA supplementation? This is my current line of thinking.

Why did you drop the Navitas? I just started it, and it makes a great hot cocoa.

I actually just stopped taking it this morning in anticipation of experimenting with dexmethylphenidate this weekend. The cocoa powder has some stimulant qualities at the dose I use and I don't want the 200-300mg of theobromine to confound things.

And why did you drop the ginger? You previously seemed big on it. I tried it recently for several days and it did help my belly... although I have some concerns taking it daily too.

Ginger got the axe during my elimination of most things anti-inflammatory from my regimen. I seem to have maintained the improvement in digestive health that I was enjoying while on it, at least for now.

As for Omega 6:3 ratio, have you considered getting it tested instead of cronometer? I tried measuring it via cronometer, and couldn't get it accurate (too many foods didn't list actual omega contents)... so I had it measured with a blood test instead. Mayo does an essential fatty acid profile, which shows a ton of fat info, so if you have a doc who doesn't mind writing scripts, it could be worth it. My doctor just put 'Omega 3s' on the script, and the lab knew which test to run.

That sounds interesting and I'll see if I can get that done some time in the future. For now though, I feel pretty good about my EFA situation.

Edited by FunkOdyssey, 21 January 2010 - 07:25 PM.

[nameless]

Thanks for the info.

Curious about flax... what is the benefit using it over fish oil though? Besides the ALA-EPA evolutionary design theory.

Does it oxidize less, or are there any studies showing a benefit that couldn't be found from marine omega 3s? I've considered using it, but the ALA-prostate thing has always scared me off.

Oh, and for Multi-Basics, I just asked AOR about their switch to 5-MTHF, and they said it should be making it on the store shelves now (if you haven't already gotten that version of Basics). They say all of their recent batches have been using it. So if any Core/Basics/Mix people need to restock, probably best to see who has new batches.

Edited by nameless, 21 January 2010 - 07:45 PM.

[VespeneGas]

My theory is that the primary benefit of ALA is it's conversion to stearidonic acid, which then competes with DGLA for delta 5 desaturase. This should modestly elevate LC w-3's, modestly decrease arachidonic acid synthesis, and modestly increase the production of series 1 prostaglandins from DGLA (which are chiefly antiinflammatory).

[bdelfin]

I had trouble locating the links for alpha-linolenic acid and CR, SAM-e production. Anyone have links for the studies?

Also, how much ALA does it take to trigger the negative effects? My diet is probably a little low in ALA, and I've been taking 1.7 grams/day, partly to improve the ratio of Omega 6:Omega 3 in my diet. Is this enough to cause problems? Thanks.

[bdelfin]

D'oh! Sorry, didn't realize that ALA was alpha-lipoic acid...

As for r-lipoic acid's effects on homocysteine/SAM-e levels, see here for a rebuttal. There may not be a risk for high homocysteine/low SAM-e in humans at the levels we normally consume, especially for those of us consuming various methyl donors.

Has anyone here actually seen their homocysteine spike after prolonged consumption of r-lipoic acid? (As someone who takes SAM-e for arthritis, I can't speak from my own experience.) Please provide before/after numbers and the dose of r-lipoic acid you take...

[FunkOdyssey]

Updated regimen in first post of the thread.

Added doxycycline 300mg BID and tinidazole 1000mg BID (going for the throat). Messed with EFA's a bit, and replaced Advanced Research lithium orotate with the more reputable Doctor's Best brand. My crappy new insurance won't cover VSL#3 DS, so I went back to theralac.

Added some iodine as I recently reduced my thyroid hormone dose, to help my thyroid pick up the slack. I intend to gradually wean off thyroid hormone replacement, either partially or fully depending on how well my thyroid recovers, over a period of some months. There was never that much wrong in the first place with only subclinical hypothyroidism and I want to test my hypothesis that my thyroid will recover with continued lyme treatment.

Olga is done with lyme treatment for now, possibly for good, and is just taking the low dose of amox for her skin. She is symptom-free at the moment.

Focalin XR has been very helpful for getting work done at surprisingly low doses. I stopped taking it for the moment, since I just introduced a serious ABX combo and don't want my head to explode. I'll definitely be coming back to this one though. I much prefer it over the psychostimulants I've tried before (racemic methylphenidate, adderall, and vyvanse).

[notlupus]

Updated regimen in first post of the thread.

Added doxycycline 300mg BID and tinidazole 1000mg BID (going for the throat). Messed with EFA's a bit, and replaced Advanced Research lithium orotate with the more reputable Doctor's Best brand. My crappy new insurance won't cover VSL#3 DS, so I went back to theralac.

Added some iodine as I recently reduced my thyroid hormone dose, to help my thyroid pick up the slack. I intend to gradually wean off thyroid hormone replacement, either partially or fully depending on how well my thyroid recovers, over a period of some months. There was never that much wrong in the first place with only subclinical hypothyroidism and I want to test my hypothesis that my thyroid will recover with continued lyme treatment.

Olga is done with lyme treatment for now, possibly for good, and is just taking the low dose of amox for her skin. She is symptom-free at the moment.

Focalin XR has been very helpful for getting work done at surprisingly low doses. I stopped taking it for the moment, since I just introduced a serious ABX combo and don't want my head to explode. I'll definitely be coming back to this one though. I much prefer it over the psychostimulants I've tried before (racemic methylphenidate, adderall, and vyvanse).

I'll have to look into focalin, thanks for mentioning it. How hard was it for you to get off adderall? I've been on it for a while at very low doses and would like to try to quit but fear there might be months of fog afterwards.

You have my respect, if I try to take 200mg of doxy I almost start heaving the nausea is so bad.

[FunkOdyssey]

I'll have to look into focalin, thanks for mentioning it. How hard was it for you to get off adderall? I've been on it for a while at very low doses and would like to try to quit but fear there might be months of fog afterwards.

You have my respect, if I try to take 200mg of doxy I almost start heaving the nausea is so bad.

I never took adderall consistently or for long enough to experience any sort of withdrawal. In your case though, I imagine you could switch right from one drug to the other without ill effects.

I do take the doxycycline right in the middle of large meals, that might be the secret. Taking doxycycline with a meal may reduce absorption by up to 20% -- to which I say, just take 20% more then.

[rwac]

You have my respect, if I try to take 200mg of doxy I almost start heaving the nausea is so bad.

Have you considered switching to a different antibiotic, like say amoxicillin ?

It doesn't cross the BBB so you shouldn't have nausea.
Although killing too many bugs in the CNS from doxy is probably bad too.

[FunkOdyssey]

rwac- I think the nausea notlupus was describing is the typical stomach nausea provoked by the presence of the drug in the stomach, not a "head nausea" after the drug was absorbed (correct me if I'm wrong). They make a delayed release form of doxycycline (Doryx) to address the problem.

[rwac]

rwac- I think the nausea notlupus was describing is the typical stomach nausea provoked by the presence of the drug in the stomach, not a "head nausea" after the drug was absorbed (correct me if I'm wrong). They make a delayed release form of doxycycline (Doryx) to address the problem.

How do you tell the difference ?

[nameless]

rwac- I think the nausea notlupus was describing is the typical stomach nausea provoked by the presence of the drug in the stomach, not a "head nausea" after the drug was absorbed (correct me if I'm wrong). They make a delayed release form of doxycycline (Doryx) to address the problem.

How do you tell the difference ?

I'd guess you sort of throw up (or feel like it) right away?

I know when I was on Doxy, I vomited once... learned to never take it without food. Maybe taking it with lots of food, ginger (if no interactions) or delayed form (like Funk mentioned) would be a solution.

[notlupus]

rwac- I think the nausea notlupus was describing is the typical stomach nausea provoked by the presence of the drug in the stomach, not a "head nausea" after the drug was absorbed (correct me if I'm wrong). They make a delayed release form of doxycycline (Doryx) to address the problem.

How do you tell the difference ?

I'd take doxy with food and almost immediately feel bad, then it'd get worse so that for the next several hours I thought I'd puke. It also caused acid reflux. I've had a weak stomach my entire life, so it's not too surprising. It's much better now that I am gluten free but some meds and supplements still give me problems. Doxy has made me puke. It was one of the the worst things I have experienced.

Right now I am on penicillin injections, although I am taking a short break and taking some amoxi before doing the shots again. My butt was so sore I had to take a break.

[chrono]

Great thread, Funk. Learned about some really interesting things here.

Changes to regimen (updates made to original post)-

Removed:
Bacopa - cost savings, unconvincing evidence, new research suggests extracts standardized to bacosides A&B may be missing important actives

Do you have the ref for the bacoside spectrum study handy by? Had no luck with a quick search, and am already backed up on intensive reference reviews.

Am trying to decide if it's worth figuring out the fatigue issue and taking for months, to try to get the memory benefits. This sounds like it could be a critical factor.

Edited by chrono, 13 February 2010 - 04:41 AM.

[meursault]

Funk, I am very interested in taking Lithium Orotate for its cognitive-enhancing properties and neuroprotection. Can you share some of your experiences and observations while taking it in the long-term?

[jwilcox25]

Great thread, Funk. Learned about some really interesting things here.

Changes to regimen (updates made to original post)-

Removed:
Bacopa - cost savings, unconvincing evidence, new research suggests extracts standardized to bacosides A&B may be missing important actives

Do you have the ref for the bacoside spectrum study handy by? Had no luck with a quick search, and am already backed up on intensive reference reviews.

Am trying to decide if it's worth figuring out the fatigue issue and taking for months, to try to get the memory benefits. This sounds like it could be a critical factor.

Curious about this and also ashwagandha dropping from your regimen. Precisely the two supplements I've considered cutting from my own regimen.

[Logan]

Thanks for the info.

Curious about flax... what is the benefit using it over fish oil though? Besides the ALA-EPA evolutionary design theory.

Does it oxidize less, or are there any studies showing a benefit that couldn't be found from marine omega 3s? I've considered using it, but the ALA-prostate thing has always scared me off.

Oh, and for Multi-Basics, I just asked AOR about their switch to 5-MTHF, and they said it should be making it on the store shelves now (if you haven't already gotten that version of Basics). They say all of their recent batches have been using it. So if any Core/Basics/Mix people need to restock, probably best to see who has new batches.

Forget about the flax and start eating or drinking(mixing it in water or juice) Chia seed. Flax has phytoestrogens, Chia doesn't. Chia may be superior to flax for other reasons as well.

http://www.google.co...M7f0sAYZ5TA2sFA

[Dorho]

I'm sorry if this has been asked before, but why did you drop N-acetyl-cysteine? Do you think it doesn't benefit you enough or does it have some nasty side-effects?

[EmbraceUnity]

Forget about the flax and start eating or drinking(mixing it in water or juice) Chia seed. Flax has phytoestrogens, Chia doesn't. Chia may be superior to flax for other reasons as well.

Great tip! I had never heard of that one before. I would like to read more about this plant to see if there are any nasty surprises... seems right up there with green tea and cacao as far as I can tell.

[FunkOdyssey]

Funk, I am very interested in taking Lithium Orotate for its cognitive-enhancing properties and neuroprotection. Can you share some of your experiences and observations while taking it in the long-term?

I found it to be generally mood-dulling at higher doses. This was not really noticeable at 5mg but began to manifest at 10+ mg. Recently I take 1.25mg daily just to cover the nutritional requirement for lithium; I am no longer trying to do anything therapeutic with it. Its effects were subtle even at 10-20mg daily.

I'm sorry if this has been asked before, but why did you drop N-acetyl-cysteine? Do you think it doesn't benefit you enough or does it have some nasty side-effects?

I blamed it for a stomach problem which, in retrospect, it may have had little to do with. I try to keep my regimen is simple as possible these days so I've been leaving it out for now.

Curious about this and also ashwagandha dropping from your regimen. Precisely the two supplements I've considered cutting from my own regimen.

Both bacopa and ashwagandha affect thyroid hormones, which is not ideal for me since I am constantly adjusting and readjusting my thyroid hormone replacement dose and don't want confounding variables. Both herbs have so many different effects, some of which are poorly characterized.

I have a pretty complex regimen already and take several medications concurrently. The more of these pharmacologically promiscuous supplements I can eliminate, the better handle I have on the whole regimen as far as what is happening in my body.