11 replies to this topic

[doctordog]

well, i was finally able to track down the only GP in my region i know of who also deals in alternative medicine (as opposed to naturopaths who dismiss all psychs as quacks, and visa versa). he said that under his guidance, i may be able to come off anti-depressants entirely. apparently, he is an acolyte of the Pfeiffer Treatment Centre who (among other things) have been examining the relationship between histamine levels and mental illness. he made me fill out a survey which revealed that i was high histamine, i think. he has ordered a blood test which will hopefully confirm as much (as well as test other things i'm not certain of) and proceed from there. in the meantime he ordered me to stop taking a b-complex, as folic acid worsens my condition, and basically avoid everything other than fish oil until we meet again. i am feeling very optimistic. so far he is the only person i have met who is interested in treating any underlying biological irregularities rather than throw psychotropics at me.

[Advanc3d]

well, i was finally able to track down the only GP in my region i know of who also deals in alternative medicine (as opposed to naturopaths who dismiss all psychs as quacks, and visa versa). he said that under his guidance, i may be able to come off anti-depressants entirely. apparently, he is an acolyte of the Pfeiffer Treatment Centre who (among other things) have been examining the relationship between histamine levels and mental illness. he made me fill out a survey which revealed that i was high histamine, i think. he has ordered a blood test which will hopefully confirm as much (as well as test other things i'm not certain of) and proceed from there. in the meantime he ordered me to stop taking a b-complex, as folic acid worsens my condition, and basically avoid everything other than fish oil until we meet again. i am feeling very optimistic. so far he is the only person i have met who is interested in treating any underlying biological irregularities rather than throw psychotropics at me.

there was a source somewhere that

Vitamin C act as a histamine scavanger, i.e it removes histamine.
Methyl Donors also do that.


btw what kinda survey was this.. a

[doctordog]

well, i was finally able to track down the only GP in my region i know of who also deals in alternative medicine (as opposed to naturopaths who dismiss all psychs as quacks, and visa versa). he said that under his guidance, i may be able to come off anti-depressants entirely. apparently, he is an acolyte of the Pfeiffer Treatment Centre who (among other things) have been examining the relationship between histamine levels and mental illness. he made me fill out a survey which revealed that i was high histamine, i think. he has ordered a blood test which will hopefully confirm as much (as well as test other things i'm not certain of) and proceed from there. in the meantime he ordered me to stop taking a b-complex, as folic acid worsens my condition, and basically avoid everything other than fish oil until we meet again. i am feeling very optimistic. so far he is the only person i have met who is interested in treating any underlying biological irregularities rather than throw psychotropics at me.

there was a source somewhere that

Vitamin C act as a histamine scavanger, i.e it removes histamine.
Methyl Donors also do that.


btw what kinda survey was this.. a

couldn't find the exact questionnaire but this is how it breaks down pretty much

Treatment revolves around antifolates such as methionine to add a methyl group to help histamine leave the body, calcium to release the excess histamine into the blood stream, and other supportive nutrients to help metabolism. It can take 3-6 months to resolve this chemical imbalance. If treatment is discontinued, then symptoms return.
SYMPTOMS OF UNDERMETHYLATION/HIGH HISTAMINE:
Allergies
Headaches
Competitiveness
Excess saliva
Obsessive-compulsive
Perfectionism
Easy tears
High libido
Addictive tendencies
Mood Helped by SSRI's
Condition Worsened by Benzodiazepines


Histapenia (overmethylation):

Histapenia is characterized by low blood histamine levels (<40 mcg/dl). The neurotransmitter dopamine tends to be high. About 1/3 of these patients experience anxiety disorders. They react badly to antihistamines and generally don’t have seasonal allergies, but have many food and chemical sensitivities.

Treatment revolves around folic acid, niacin, B12, and a high protein diet. Within 2-4 weeks gradual improvement is seen. It can take several months to truly correct this biochemical imbalance. As with all biochemical imbalances that are in born, if you stop treatment symptoms will return.
SYMPTOMS OF OVERMETHYLATION:
High anxiety, nervous
Social isolation
Academic underachievement
Dry eyes
Depression and despair
Food and chemical sensitivities
Low libido
Heavy body hair
Restless legs
Learning disabilities
Upper body or head pain
Panic attacks
Paranoia
No seasonal allergies
Mood Worsened by SSRI's
Conditioned Helped by Benzodiazepines

[waldemar]

Those are my "symptoms":

Allergies
Headaches
Competitiveness
Obsessive-compulsive

Social isolation
Restless legs
Paranoia

Am I high or low in histamine? ;-)

[Brainbox]

It's also my experience with this classification that "symptoms" are about evenly distributed within both groups.

[rwac]

Don't rely too heavily on the methylation stuff.

I've had various symptoms from both of those categories.

Allergies/Depression/Dry eyes etc

Tell us some of your symptoms.

[4eva]

It's also my experience with this classification that "symptoms" are about evenly distributed within both groups.

Then you would be considered a mixed oxidizer according to metabolic typing. You don't fit a condition in orthomolecular.

But you could have both MTHFr and COMT SNPs. And those two SNPs mean you have a genetic tendency for both overmethylation (COMT) and undermethylation (MTHFr).
And you would need some of the nutrients of both types.

Being one type (either over or undermethylator) makes it easier to know what supplements to take and ones to avoid.

Its a slower process to treat a combo type because there is a step by step process of adding in one (or two) supplements at a time.

[doctordog]

It's also my experience with this classification that "symptoms" are about evenly distributed within both groups.

Its a slower process to treat a combo type because there is a step by step process of adding in one (or two) supplements at a time.

exactly. without knowing the scientific basis behind over/undermethylation, i assume having symptoms from both groups doesn't automatically negate its validity. the cluster of symptoms i exhibited were *all* from the category of high histamine, so maybe that just makes me an easier case to treat.

[4eva]

It's also my experience with this classification that &quot;symptoms&quot; are about evenly distributed within both groups.

Its a slower process to treat a combo type because there is a step by step process of adding in one (or two) supplements at a time.

exactly. without knowing the scientific basis behind over/undermethylation, i assume having symptoms from both groups doesn't automatically negate its validity. the cluster of symptoms i exhibited were *all* from the category of high histamine, so maybe that just makes me an easier case to treat.

I'm not trying to be negative - just realistic.

Easier is still relative. You may have other problems because of your "known" deficiencies. Being deficient means you may have taken up some heavy metals perhaps. Or maybe your liver needs some extra special attention. Histadelics can have a problem with sulfation. Its possible that your liver tried to compensate for that problem with sulfation and perhaps is overworked as a result.

And you may have some other "unique to you" deficiencies that will have to be identified and treated.

I haven't known anyone who was finished (had all deficiencies corrected) in that expected time frame of 3 to 6 months.

You may seem to fit a "type" in a straight forward way but I don't think anyone's nutritional problems are all that straight foward to correct. Its a balancing act that requires fine tuning. And it may be a process of repeatedly fine tuning a regimen after uncovering additional issues not obvious at the start.

[doctordog]

It's also my experience with this classification that &quot;symptoms&quot; are about evenly distributed within both groups.

Its a slower process to treat a combo type because there is a step by step process of adding in one (or two) supplements at a time.

exactly. without knowing the scientific basis behind over/undermethylation, i assume having symptoms from both groups doesn't automatically negate its validity. the cluster of symptoms i exhibited were *all* from the category of high histamine, so maybe that just makes me an easier case to treat.

I'm not trying to be negative - just realistic.

Easier is still relative. You may have other problems because of your "known" deficiencies. Being deficient means you may have taken up some heavy metals perhaps. Or maybe your liver needs some extra special attention. Histadelics can have a problem with sulfation. Its possible that your liver tried to compensate for that problem with sulfation and perhaps is overworked as a result.

And you may have some other "unique to you" deficiencies that will have to be identified and treated.

I haven't known anyone who was finished (had all deficiencies corrected) in that expected time frame of 3 to 6 months.

You may seem to fit a "type" in a straight forward way but I don't think anyone's nutritional problems are all that straight foward to correct. Its a balancing act that requires fine tuning. And it may be a process of repeatedly fine tuning a regimen after uncovering additional issues not obvious at the start.

thanks for your post. i understand histamine levels aren't a cure-all (in fact, the GP warned me it may take up to a year to receive tangible results) but i am just relieved to have a new avenue to explore, after nearly exhausting psych meds. i also know, for example, that inositol (which is recommended for high histamine types) has clinically proven results in the management of OCD, which i am sadly afflicted with.

[Brainbox]

I wasn't trying to be negative either. According to my knowledge this categorisation looks sensible to me. I was just wondering. Perhaps it isn't conclusive because it doesn't just depends on genetics, but also (heavily) on the diet currently taken, causing inaccuracy.
Regarding the SNP's mentioned by 4eva, if the genetic service I'm using would have been quicker I would've known my situation already...... (assuming these SNP's are part of the deal of which I'm not sure of)

[4eva]

I wasn't trying to be negative either. According to my knowledge this categorisation looks sensible to me. I was just wondering. Perhaps it isn't conclusive because it doesn't just depends on genetics, but also (heavily) on the diet currently taken, causing inaccuracy. Regarding the SNP's mentioned by 4eva, if the genetic service I'm using would have been quicker I would've known my situation already...... (assuming these SNP's are part of the deal of which I'm not sure of)

Diet may be a factor to change histamine levels but not dramatically enough to change symptoms I think. I think extreme changes in diet may cause some minor changes, but it would not likely change most symptoms.

Diet is a factor but these conditions (histamine levels or SNPs) are about deficiencies. Deficiencies are not treated exclusively with diet; supplements are needed.

The COMT and MTHFr SNPs are part of the most common SNPs tested for by these relatively new genetic testing services.