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Should The Us Go To War With Iraq?
#631
Posted 01 April 2003 - 02:35 AM
Raid Finds al-Qaida Tie to Iraq Militants (excerpts)
Raid on Iraqi Militant Group Indicates Ties to al-Qaida but Leadership on the Run to Iran
The Associated Press
BIYARE, Iraq March 31 —
A U.S.-led assault on a compound controlled by an extremist Islamic group turned up a list of names of suspected militants living in the United States and what may be the strongest evidence yet linking the group to al-Qaida, coalition commanders said Monday.
The cache of documents at the Ansar al-Islam compound, including computer discs and foreign passports belonging to Arab fighters from around the Middle East, could bolster the Bush administration's claims that the two groups are connected, although there was no indication any of the evidence tied Ansar to Saddam Hussein as Washington has maintained.
There were indications, however, that the group has been getting help from inside neighboring Iran.
Kurdish and Turkish intelligence officials, some speaking on condition of anonymity, said many of Ansar's 700 members have slipped out of Iraq and into Iran putting them out of reach of coalition forces.
#632
Posted 01 April 2003 - 03:38 AM
By Stephen Pollard
You weren’t, surely, surprised by Robin Cook’s “I don’t want to win, I do want to win, I’ll say whatever goes down best” verbal gymnastics over the past couple of days? The former Foreign Secretary is, after all, a classic example of that most wretched of creatures: Homo not as sapiens as he thinks he is.
Where others clunk around in darkness, these people know that they shine a uniquely informed light on world events. They know that, while the rest of us are brainwashed by Hollywood, they understand the baleful influence of “Western imperialism”. Ask them for specifics, and they will quote you a coruscating article from the New Left Review in 1986 which shows — proves — how the West is ravaging the rest of the world.
They come from all parties, and none, but they have one common idée fixe: they hate the West. They hate, in fact, themselves.
Cook’s behaviour on Sunday was no more than a tawdry smash-and-grab raid for the leadership of these Western self-loathers. He might have swiftly denied the clear meaning of his words — “I want our troops home” — when confronted by the reaction of all decent shades of opinion, but the sordid truth is that he meant precisely what he said, “capitulation after just ten days”, as David Blunkett witheringly put it.
Cook meant it because, behind the sophistry, he and his hard-core fellow-travellers really would prefer the coalition to stumble than for their nightmare of a victorious America to come true. Cook’s future depends on coalition humiliation. If we win, his world-view will be shattered. Iraq will be free, and there will be evidence aplenty of President Saddam Hussein’s weapons of mass destruction. America will, once again, have stepped forward as ready and willing to fight for its values and survival.
The majority of those who marched against the war have realised that the world has moved on. The war has started, and there are only two possible sides to take: Saddam’s or the coalition’s.
Those who are still protesting have made their choice plain for all to see. There was never any doubt which side they would take. So consumed are they with contempt for their own society that they cannot bear the thought of the West actually defending itself. When America does just that, the reaction is not to thank heavens for a nation that is prepared to stand up for freedom, but to spit in its face.
That mindset infects the entire political culture. I recently took part in a radio discussion with the BBC’s developing world correspondent. During it he informed me and the listeners that “if America was engaged in the rest of the world rather than, frankly, wanting to bomb it and. . . take its resources” then there would be less anti-Americanism around. On Newsnight last week, one correspondent referred disparagingly to “this holy war”.
With senior correspondents who seem to think that the US is the real villain, is it any wonder that the BBC reports this as a war between two equally untrustworthy foes — or, as sometimes seems the case, between an evil aggressor, America, and a blameless victim, Iraq? Every incident is reported, almost relished, as a shattering blow. The Today programme described the execution of two British soldiers last week as “the worst possible news”. The loss of two lives in defence of freedom is indeed tragic. But it will have made almost no difference to the overall success.
The real decadence of the West is not its alcohol, sex and drugs: it is its inability to make judgments about its own value, and its refusal to treat the likes of Cook with the contempt they deserve.
#633
Posted 01 April 2003 - 03:41 AM
Kissinger,
The more research I have performed on Saddam and his regime, the more what you state above becomes clear.
bob
To be quite honest Bob, I don't think Kissinger needs any encouragement. The fact that Saddam Hussein shows blatant disregard for the life of his own people is well established, and receives too little attention.....
HOWEVER, no matter how appalling his actions are, this is not an immediate license for the American government to attack a sovereign nation, without international approval, or any objective evidence. Of course Saddam probably has WMDs, but then why has the US government repeatedly failed to FIND THE NECESSARY PROOF. Do they expect us to simply "Take their word for it" [?] (Obviously so, if they even care.) If the evidence is so monumental, then it would be nice to see it.
This debate has 2 sides: the first side, the very common right-wing American position, is that the oppression of a group of people justifies the use of force, regardless of popular opinion, or local support.
2-The 2nd position (a more liberal European, and often Canadian position), is that no matter how awful the actions of an oppressive regime are, the horrors of war are much worse, and are not justified unless a foreign nation poses an immediate threat to national/international security......this point has yet to be proven about Iraq, although Iran and North Korea are another story........
It appears people on this site are resorting to US government tactics, of trying to shock us into supporting war, -by listing Saddam's atrocities......this is not enough to convince me. We are also debating whether any nation, not simply the United States, -should have the right to do what the U.S. is claiming they have the right to do. I think many of the actions that go on in the middle east (suicide bombings, etc.) are very self-destructive and depressing, but I wish the U.S. government wouldn't stoop to this level, which is CLEARLY influenced and broadly-based on religion.....
-the current U.S. administration, in particular, is mimicking many middle-eastern nations, in basing immensely-important policies on religious beliefs, -which are being accepted as fact.
That is all. [B)]
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#634
Posted 01 April 2003 - 04:56 AM
By the way Limitless, you revealed yourself when you stated that the US government is arrogant and ignorant. You need to back that up. All of your points are flawed and if I wanted to I could take a good wack at each and everyone of them. **yawn**
[roll] You amuse me, Kissinger. lol Did you read the end of my post, which clearly stated "I will post these arguments/comments in more detail when-I-have-the-time. I have a class now [!]"
-I have also posted these arguments before in this thread, in greater detail, -with examples......I guess you didn't do your homework, now did you Kissinger [?] And to be quite honest, I think my points were self-explanatory, and completely valid. I will, however, explain tomorrow, when I have the time -if you want me to.
You have the gall to accuse me of not backing up my points, and then post the comment "I could take a good whack at every one of them" -but fail to take the time, effort, or thought to do so. Perhaps you could follow your own advice [?] Or does your seniority in terms of age give you an excuse to be lazy [?] It doesn't appear that you are a person who is comfortable supporting your flawed position....I don't blame you. My points were perfectly valid, and easily-understandable.
Even if this war were to last another month (4 whole weeks), the second Gulf War will have taken a total of only six weeks. That is nothing.
You are "Revealing yourself" too, Kissinger. While I revealed myself to be an astute observer, you are clearly showing your ignorance and/or lack of intellectual effort or ability. 1-who are you to define how long 6 weeks is [?] The government predicted a quick 'n' easy war, back in time for dinner.....it isn't happening. And you fail to take into account 2 other things:
1-the length of the war is less important than the number of casualties, and the level of instability it creates throughout the Arab world, and....
2-you fail to forget that there is no clear opponent, as the U.S. was not being attacked, and, therefore, there is no way the United States can win, as this is a no-win situation.....they can execute every Iraqi alive, but will have failed if they don't create a democracy, which they clearly have no intention of doing, as it isn't feasible. Also, whether a democracy is created or not, -THEY WILL LOSE THE BATTLE OF PUBLIC OPINION, DUE TO THE NUMBER OF AMERICAN AND IRAQI CASUALTIES -WHICH HAVE BOTH OCCURRED IN LARGE NUMBERS [!]
With all of the naysayers out there this feels like Afghanistan.
) "The weapons aren't working! The Taliban is still in power." Yadayadayada. Deep breaths. Ok, now remember this-- a 2000 lb bomb is a 2000 lb bomb.
I'm not sure what you're getting at. What is the objective here [?] Is this a creative writing piece, or evidence to support your position [?] ....It fails both ways.....How can you compare the paltry taliban forces with a full-fledged Iraqi army [?] [!] :
-Iraq has a fighting-force of 350, 000 troops, (outnumbering the Americans and British troops combined) large numbers of tanks and other vehicles, a few old fighter-jets, and NUMEROUS rebel forces which are unaccounted for, and deceptive as anything.
The bottom line is: this war in no "Walk in the park." You make it sound as if everything will go back to normal after the Americans withdraw. (as they'll eventually have to) You fail to talk about the instability in the Arab world that will result, and the violence against the United States this could incite......
-This war could also last MUCH longer than another 4 weeks. You have no reason to believe it will end so quickly......need a history lesson about.....V-I-E-T-N-A-M [?] Or anything else [?] True, technology is greatly-improved, but you overestimate the ability of bombs to take out troops. Troops fan-out, and must still be met with other humans. Even "Smart-bombs" are rather primitive and inaccurate in practice-regardless of their complexity....and when troops are used against troops, people die on both sides. (Many people)
I'll explain my previous post tomorrow.
Edited by Limitless, 01 April 2003 - 05:03 AM.
#635
Posted 01 April 2003 - 05:29 AM
It appears people on this site are resorting to US government tactics, of trying to shock us into supporting war, -by listing Saddam's atrocities......this is not enough to convince me. We are also debating whether any nation, not simply the United States, -should have the right to do what the U.S. is claiming they have the right to do.
Limitless,
Actually, the more I research, the more convinced I am that going to war with Iraq was the correct decision.
So let me take you through the steps why I am backing the war with Iraq:
1) The US led the Gulf War led by President George H.W. Bush's Administration.
2) After the Gulf War, per the "'Embed' free Iraqis, now!" article:
"The people of Iraq are also terrified by the continuing predations of Saddam's Fedayeen and other enforcers, which Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld has properly called "death squads." They remember only too well the harsh reprisals against those who dared to respond to President George H.W. Bush's 1991 call to rise up against the regime."
Stated a different way, President George H.W. Bush's 1991 call for the people of Iraq to rise up against the regime resulted in not only harsh reprisals by Saddam but I have heard that this action resulted in 200,000 deaths of those who tried to revolt. Thus, it could be deduced that these people of Iraq felt that they were betrayed by President George H.W. Bush's Administration.
3) Both 1) and 2) appear to have resulted a strong animosity between the Saddam's regime and the US.
Please check out how Saddam tried to Kill Bush I in the post following this one. That in itself was sufficient reason for me for the US to go to war with Iraq.
4) The UN established Sanctions on Iraq to combat their potential for WMD.
The WHO has reported as a result of Sanctions, that approximately 60,000 children in Iraq under 5 die a year. We can point fingers at the Sanctions themselves or we can point fingers at the way Saddam's regime distributed the resources available under Sanctions, but this has damaged the US's reputation in the Middle East.
Quoting from the article by The International Monitor Institute (URL shown below) and posted by myself on page 51 in the Forum:
http://www.imisite.org/iraq.php
The sanctions clearly devastated the population, as Iraq depends on imports for over 75 percent of its food consumption. In response to deteriorating nutritional and health conditions, effecting mainly children and the elderly, the UN Security Council implemented the oil-for-food program as a temporary solution (Resolution 986).
Denis Halliday, the former United Nations Assistant Secretary-General and Humanitarian Coordinator who was sent to Iraq to supervise the oil-for-food program in 1997, stated that:
Even the most conservative, independent estimates hold economic sanctions responsible for a public health catastrophe of epic proportions. The World Health Organization believes at least 5,000 children under the age of 5 die each month from lack of access to food, medicine and clean water. Malnutrition, disease, poverty and premature death now ravage a once relatively prosperous society whose public health system was the envy of the Middle East. I went to Iraq in September 1997 to oversee the UN's "oil for food" program. I quickly realized that this humanitarian program was a Band-Aid for a UN sanctions regime that was quite literally killing people.
The oil-for-food guidelines allow for the Iraqi government to sell petroleum and petroleum products to buy and distribute "medicine, health supplies, foodstuffs and materials and supplies for essential civilian needs" to the Iraqi people.
However there is mounting evidence that Saddam has used the profits on personal luxuries. According to the US State Department, "Saddam has spent over $2 billion on presidential palaces. Some of these palaces boast gold-plated faucets and man-made lakes and waterfalls, which use pumping equipment that could have been used to address civilian water and sanitation needs."
In the documentary "Uncle Saddam," journalist Joel Soler reports that Saddam has built some 21-46 palaces, one of them over 50 square-miles. Hussam Khadori, Saddam's Architect, gives Soler a tour of one palace that was decorated in a classic cathedral style, including Italian ceilings, crystal chandeliers, and giant Italian marble collums. Khadori mentions that "This house was bought after the sanctions."
5) The UN established a number of Resolutions regarding WMD which Saddam essentially ignored.
Note I have posted a few of these resolution on this Forum. One of the Resolutions essentially stated the Iraq had WMD. That is proof enough for me that Saddam's regime has WMD.
Per your quote:
Of course Saddam probably has WMDs, but then why has the US government repeatedly failed to FIND THE NECESSARY PROOF. Do they expect us to simply "Take their word for it" (Obviously so, if they even care.) If the evidence is so monumental, then it would be nice to see it.
I can appreciate what you are stating, but all the proof I needed was the UN Resolution.
6) Iraq has considerable resources (oil) which would allow Saddam's regime to build considerable WMD once Sanctions were removed.
7) Saddam's regime is a very brutal one with the motive to strike the US.
If 1) through 6) only existed, the concern would not be as great, but it is 7) added 1)-6) that is the issue. It is 7) that personally concerns me. Each person has the right to feel differently about 7). I am not trying to lead others to the same conclusion I have, but rather to understand my conclusion myself.
I might add that I would have preferred that the diplomacy by the Bush Administration to have been handled in a far better way. I would have much preferred that the UN Security Council to have voted for the Resolution for the war. But then, I understand that there were business ties specifically between France and Iraq. I will leave this last point regarding France as my personal belief rather than a fact.
This issue goes on and on in complexities and other reasons for the war. I really don't know for certain what the real core issue is as to why the Bush Administration opted for war, but I have laid out mine.
I might add that I asked numerous times for options, and only got "continue the Sanctions". "Continuing the Sanctions" was no longer an option because of the reasons already stated.
Yes, there are the horrors of war, but there are also the horrors of Sanctions. One is a very easily seen and photographed while the other one is relatively silent.
The 2nd position (a more liberal European, and often Canadian position), is that no matter how awful the actions of an oppressive regime are, the horrors of war are much worse[/B], and are not justified unless a foreign nation poses an immediate threat to national/international security......this point has yet to be proven about Iraq, although Iran and North Korea are another story........
I do not believe that either Europe nor Canada have anywhere the same threat by Iraq because of 1) through 4).
It appears people on this site are resorting to US government tactics, of trying to shock us into supporting war, -by listing Saddam's atrocities......this is not enough to convince me. We are also debating whether any nation, not simply the United States, -should have the right to do what the U.S. is claiming they have the right to do. I think many of the actions that go on in the middle east (suicide bombings, etc.) are very self-destructive and depressing, but I wish the U.S. government wouldn't stoop to this level, which is CLEARLY influenced and broadly-based on religion.....
I am listing Saddam's atrocities and probably will continue to do so if appropriate. If Saddam committed atrocities on his own people, and his neighbors (Iran and Kuwait), he certainly would not hesitate to repeat that behavior with another country he considers his enemy.
But while discussing the Middle East, the Palistinian issue has not been satisfactorily addressed in my opinion. This is a seperate issue, but it complicates the issue we are currently discussing.
-the current U.S. administration, in particular, is mimicking many middle-eastern nations, in basing immensely-important policies on religious beliefs, -which are being accepted as fact.
That might or might not be true. I will let an apologist for the Bush Administration handle that one. I do not recollect posting that goes in that direction.
We have 50+ pages of discussion on this subject. These have yet to embrace the entire issue. There are two sides to the issue, but based upon my research the decision for the US to go to war is a valid one for me. I have friends who have flipped back and forth some 7+ times. It is not an easy issue to make a determination on.
Wouldn't it have been great to have found another solution rather than simply responding to the top title "should the US go to war with Iraq"? The title of this thread itself is limiting. Had collaborative thinking taken place rather than combative rationale, maybe a reasonable solution could have been found. But sadly I saw no solution that would reasonably protect the interest of the US other than going to war with Iraq.
It is my belief that as long as people argue using the "conflict of opposites" style rather than shooting for win-win solutions, war will continue on this planet. The predominant use of the Hegelian Dialectic (synthesis and anti-synthesis) in discussions, will probably result in continued use of war in conflict resolution. The technology that is out there (MAD) in conjunction with people arguing using the "conflict of opposites" could possiblily eventually lead to the distruction of our civilization.
bob
Edited by bobdrake12, 01 April 2003 - 07:46 AM.
#636
Posted 01 April 2003 - 07:19 AM
bob
http://www.humaneven...-02/jeffrey.htm
How Saddam Tried to Kill Bush I
By Terence P. Jeffrey
The Toyota Land Cruiser had been meticulously packed and wired with enough plastic explosives to make the Oklahoma City truck bomb look like a firecracker by comparison. In early 1993, this was Saddam Hussein’s ultimate secret weapon.
If detonated, it would kill people 400 yards away. It was a conventional weapon perhaps, but a weapon of mass destruction nonetheless.
On April 10, 1993, agents of the Iraqi Intelligence Service handed the keys of this death mobile to a team of specially recruited operatives. On April 13, under cover of darkness, some of these operatives started up the vehicle and began a secret trek across the southern Iraqi desert toward the Kuwaiti frontier.
Their intended target: George Herbert Walker Bush, just-retired President of the United States.
The day before Saddam’s Land Cruiser started creeping toward Kuwait—probably from somewhere near the southern Iraqi city of Basra—a chartered Kuwaiti Airlines 747 had taken off from Ellington Field in Houston, Tex. Its cargo: former President Bush, former First Lady Barbara Bush, presidential son Neil Bush, his wife Sharon, and future First Lady Laura Bush. The plane was scheduled to stop over in Washington, D.C., to pick up former White House Chief of Staff John Sununu and former Secretary of State James Baker.
Sweet Nothings
But now we need to flash back a few months. For the real start to this story is not in April 1993, but in January of that year, during the transition between the Bush and Clinton administrations.
On Jan. 13, 1993, President-elect Clinton signaled he was ready to change U.S. policy toward Iraq. President Bush had insisted he would never lift UN sanctions on Baghdad until Saddam was removed from power. But in an interview with the New York Times, Clinton said he would not insist on Saddam’s removal as a condition for normalizing relations with Iraq. "I am not obsessed with the man," said Clinton. "I always tell everybody I am a Baptist. I believe in deathbed conversions. If he wants a different relationship with the United States and the United Nations, all he has to do is change his behavior."
This led to a classic series of Clintonian flips and flops on Iraq policy.
At a press conference on the day the Times published his interview, Clinton claimed the paper had never asked him about normalizing relations with Saddam and that he was "astonished" it had come to the conclusion that he would consider doing so based on his remarks. "There is no difference between my policy and the policy of the present administration," Clinton said.
Immediately after the press conference, in the face of transcripts showing the Times had specifically asked him about normalizing relations with Iraq, Clinton reversed himself through spokesman George Stephanopoulos. "He inadvertently forgot that he had been asked that specific question about normalization and he regrets denying that it was asked," said Stephanopoulos.
Yet, that same day in Senate testimony, Secretary of State-designate Warren Christopher seemed to repeat what Clinton had first told the Times. "I thought that the most that could be said was that Gov. Clinton perhaps wanted to keep the feud [between the U.S. and Iraq] from being personalized," said Christopher.
Two months later, Clinton unambiguously reversed Bush’s policy. In a March 27, 1993, statement Christopher said the administration intended to "depersonalize" the conflict with Iraq. The Washington Post reported Christopher’s remarks in a story headlined: "U.S. Relents on Removal of Saddam." "The new position," the Post reported, "is expected to bring the United States and Britain in line with France and Russia, which have not insisted on Saddam’s removal."
Saddam got the message loud and clear. But he had no intention of reciprocating by "depersonalizing" his relationship with the U.S. The sweet nothings Warren Christopher whispered in his ear would be met with an explosive response.
Which brings us back to April 1993.
On the morning of April 12, the 747 carrying the Bush family to what was anticipated to be a triumphal tour of liberated Kuwait took off from Ellington Field. Half an hour later it turned back. An ominous tear had opened in the left wing. Bush, a Navy pilot whose plane had been shot down in World War II, took the setback with grace and a little bravado. "Who hasn’t been on a plane without some difficulty?" he said. The Kuwaitis, he added, "handled it beautifully."
The next day, the Bush party took off in another Kuwaiti Airlines 747. This one arrived in Kuwait City, a day late, on April 14.
It may never be known what impact that one-day delay had, if any, on Saddam’s assassination plan.
As Saddam’s explosive-packed Toyota Land Cruiser penetrated Kuwaiti territory on the night of April 13, Kuwaiti authorities intercepted it. They quickly rounded up 16 conspirators. But the Kuwaitis did not immediately inform President Bush, or the U.S. government. In fact, they kept the assassination attempt secret for the duration of Bush’s trip. When the Bush motorcade traveled from the Kuwait airport to the royal palace on April 14, Carlyle Murphy of the Washington Post—apparently unaware of the full significance of her observation—recorded that "security-conscious police had closed the roads to traffic."
With Bush on hand, and his would-be assassins in custody, the Kuwaiti leadership launched vehement rhetorical attacks on Saddam. At the Kuwaiti parliament, Speaker Ahmad Al-Saadoun declared Iraq a "threat to the stability of Kuwait and the Gulf region as well as the international community." Saddam, he said, "still harbors evil intentions and treachery."
The Clinton Administration later briefly balked at Kuwait’s claim that Saddam had tried to assassinate Bush. But a thorough probe by the Federal Bureau of Investigation and the Central Intelligence Agency, bolstered by detailed confessions from two key Iraqi operatives, sealed the case.
Four years later, the Justice Department Inspector General’s Office released a report (on its investigation of alleged misconduct at the FBI laboratory) that, along with a speech delivered by Madeleine Albright to the United Nations on June 27, 1993, forms the basis of the account delivered here. The report included much to corroborate the confessions of Saddam’s faithless agents.
The FBI and CIA, it turns out, had compared the bomb intended for Bush with two other Iraqi bombs discovered unexploded in other Middle Eastern countries. Although the chemical composition of the plastic explosives in these bombs differed from the Bush bomb, everything else from the remote-control firing devices, to the blasting caps, to the wiring techniques, to the electrical tape suggested a single architect had designed all three.
Clinton’s rhetorical response to Saddam’s attempt to kill Bush—as well as Bush family members, U.S. dignitaries, and hundreds, or even thousands, of innocent Kuwaitis—was forceful. "[T]he Iraqi attack against President Bush was an attack against our country and against all Americans," he said. But Clinton’s military response was weak. He ordered U.S. warships in the Red Sea and Persian Gulf to fire 23 cruise missiles at a complex of seven buildings in Baghdad that was the headquarters of the Iraqi Intelligence Service.
The missiles were timed to hit at 2:00 on a Sunday morning—when nobody would be there.
The day after the raid, Defense Secretary Les Aspin reiterated the Clinton policy of not "personalizing" the conflict with Iraq. "Getting rid of Saddam Hussein does not automatically solve the problem," Aspin told CNN. "What we’re looking at is the behavior, and that’s the main test."
If behavior is indeed the test, Americans must now weigh what Saddam’s attempt to kill President Bush says about his ability to be deterred. The strongest argument against removing Saddam by force is that he has already been deterred and contained by U.S. military in the region, and that the potential unintended consequences of removing him via war are a greater threat to U.S. security than leaving him, deterred and contained, in power.
What Saddam demonstrated in 1993—with the unwitting collaboration of Bill Clinton—is that when he confronts a U.S. President he sees as weak and inconsistent he is fully capable of reckless and murderous acts that justly can be construed as cause for war.
________________
© Human Events, 2002
Edited by bobdrake12, 01 April 2003 - 07:32 AM.
#637
Posted 01 April 2003 - 08:15 AM
So who then does the US, in its stated desire to 'liberate' the Iraqi people, favour to take over from Hussein? The man the Bush administration has most clearly backed is Ahmed Chalabi of the Iraqi National Congress. Chalabi, whose wealthy and influential family fled Iraq in 1958, has now moved from his London base into Kurdish-controlled northern Iraq.
Chalabi, it should be noted, was convicted in absentia in 1992 by a Jordanian court to 22 years in prison, with hard labour, for bank fraud after the collapse of Petra Bank, which he founded in Amman. The Jordanian government had to pay out half a billion dollars to creditors. Chalabi, who reportedly escaped with 70 million dollars, claims he was framed by Baghdad. James Akins, a former US ambassador to Saudi Arabia, said bluntly: "He's a swindler."
Chalabi has little support in the Middle East, let alone in Iraq. He was treated warily by the Clinton administration. But for years Chalabi cultivated the neo-conservative right in Washington, including Cheney, Rumsfeld and Paul Wolfowitz, his hawkish deputy. A
#638
Posted 01 April 2003 - 08:31 AM
Technology is NEVER everything, as long as there is still a human element.
Then can you explain to me why the Medina division has been reduced to 50%? Of course technology isn't everything, but it does give us a decisive advantage.
2- the stronger side is hamstrung by the legalities of war, and the fact that they'd surely lose the battle of public opinion is nuclear weapons are used.
Would you prefer we not honor the conventions of war? Some times there are consequences to taking the high road. And who said anything about nukes?
3. -civilians can ALSO learn how to USE GUNS, and have no trouble finding someone to supply them in certain countries.
And your point is? Do you really think the citizens of Iraq have any motivation to fight us?
4. Iraq has the familiarity/home-field advantage.
Yes, and we have special ops behind enemy lines, night vision, precision weaponry and the most intensive aerial/satellite surveillance the world has ever seen. We have a much better awareness of the tactical situation on the ground than even the most elite Iraqi troops.
5. The U.S. can't will kill more Iraqis than vice-versa, but will eventually have to quit, for political or economic reasons, without ever creating any sort of democracy they should have known they couldn't create overnight, by force.
This is a prediction.
6. Human behaviors can take EONS to change, regardless of how illogical it is. Sort of like that saying: "People prefer the devil they know, the devil they've yet to meet." (Or something to that effect.
Then I guess we'll just stick with status quo in the Middle East, shall we? The same status quo that caused 9/11. Societal behaviors can be altered, the question is to what extent and at what cost. Why do you write off reform in the Middle East as impossible?
#639
Posted 01 April 2003 - 09:01 AM
HOWEVER, no matter how appalling his actions are, this is not an immediate license for the American government to attack a sovereign nation, without international approval, or any objective evidence. Of course Saddam probably has WMDs, but then why has the US government repeatedly failed to FIND THE NECESSARY PROOF. Do they expect us to simply "Take their word for it" [?] (Obviously so, if they even care.) If the evidence is so monumental, then it would be nice to see it.
Humanitarian concerns are not a justification for war. Notice that the Administration based its case for war on WMD. However using the human rights card is a good supporting argument. Providing proof of WMD is difficult because of 1) risk of revealing sources 2) chemical and biological agents are easily concealed 3) authenticity of evidence is always questioned by people like you.
Also refer to Bob's observations on previous UN resolutions. The international community condemned Saddam for possessing WMD. Iraq had WMD when the inspectors left in 1998. Thousands of liters of Anthrax do not disappear. Tons of VX nerve agent do not spontaneously combust. If you have any doubt that Saddam has WMD then you are living in a dream world.
This debate has 2 sides:
I can think of six sides to the debate off the top of my head. The conceptual frame work within which people debate the Iraq situation does limit the debate to pro/anti war. However, individuals arrive at very similar conclusions for very different reasons. People in the Middle East are not antiwar for the same reason as the American Left or "Old Europe". My above statement is based on observation, not ideology.
I wish the U.S. government wouldn't stoop to this level, which is CLEARLY influenced and broadly-based on religion.....
The religious influences you speak of is more a function of consolidation of political power within the United States. I recall a quote that goes something like this -- "Religion is believed to be fact by the masses, doubtful by the wise, and useful by the rulers." There are many brilliant thinkers on the Right side of the perspective who have no religious persuasion what so ever. Henry Kissinger is widely known to be an atheist.
-the current U.S. administration, in particular, is mimicking many middle-eastern nations, in basing immensely-important policies on religious beliefs, -which are being accepted as fact.
Why don't you try to back that statement up?
Edited by Kissinger, 01 April 2003 - 09:03 AM.
#640
Posted 01 April 2003 - 10:42 AM
Why would paying attention to your posts be my homework? And I'm glad you think your points were self explanatory, that makes one of us.
[quote]You have the gall to accuse me of not backing up my points, and then post the comment "I could take a good whack at every one of them" -but fail to take the time, effort, or thought to do so. Perhaps you could follow your own advice [?] Or does your seniority in terms of age give you an excuse to be lazy [?] It doesn't appear that you are a person who is comfortable supporting your flawed position....I don't blame you. My points were perfectly valid, and easily-understandable.[/quote]
I have a lot of gall. I was waiting for you to come back at me with a retaliatory response so I could get better material to dissect. Thank you. [ph34r]
[quote]You are "Revealing yourself" too, Kissinger. While I revealed myself to be an astute observer, you are clearly showing your ignorance and/or lack of intellectual effort or ability. 1-who are you to define how long 6 weeks is [?] The government predicted a quick 'n' easy war, back in time for dinner.....it isn't happening. And you fail to take into account 2 other things:[/quote]
An astute observe? I'm glad you have a positive self image. As far as my intellectual ability, I scored a 1520 on my SATs and had a 2050 chess rating by the age of 17. If you haven't noticed already, there aren't a lot of stupid people at Immorality Institute. I think what you initially observed with my response to you was a lack of interest in regards to your contentions. I have already heard every one of them and I have debated them extensively. What, haven't you read the 18,000 posts on this thread? Or have you also not been doing your homework [huh] ?
[quote]1-the length of the war is less important than the number of casualties, and the level of instability it creates throughout the Arab world, and....[/quote]
The length of the war is very important in terms of domestic politics. As far as negative blow back in the form of instability in the Middle East -- can you prove this? No. Can you quantify the level of instability that would be created? No. So all you are really doing is spewing talking points that have been fed to you by liberal media outlets. You are offering no proof, just speculation. You are representative of the consummate naysayer.
[quote]2-you fail to forget that there is no clear opponent[/quote]
Assumption #1
[quote]as the U.S. was not being attacked[/quote]
9/11?? You probably don't see it that way, do you? We'll I do, and so does the current Administration. And that is what matters. Don't expect the shadowy alliances of the Middle East to come out into the light of day and say they oppose us. After the collapse of Saddam's regime I suspect that a great deal of evidence will be forth coming. In addition, in an age of WMD, a first strike is not necessary to constitute an act of aggression. This is a complex debate that has already been gone over extensively.
[quote]and, therefore, there is no way the United States can win, as this is a no-win situation[/quote]
Assumption #2
[quote].....they can execute every Iraqi alive,[/quote]
When you say "they", are you referring to the United States [ph34r] . If the US is they, then who are you? And why would the US execute innocent Iraqis? That's just rhetoric.
[quote] but will have failed if they don't create a democracy, which they clearly have no intention of doing, as it isn't feasible.[/quote]
Assumption #3 And you can't have your cake and eat it too. Either you believe the Bush Administration is filled with a bunch of idealistic religious idiots, or you believe that this is all a giant canard. One or the other.
[quote]Also, whether a democracy is created or not, -THEY WILL LOSE THE BATTLE OF PUBLIC OPINION, DUE TO THE NUMBER OF AMERICAN AND IRAQI CASUALTIES -WHICH HAVE BOTH OCCURRED IN LARGE NUMBERS [!][/quote]
Assumption #4 And I have yet to see the large numbers of American casualties. Also, their will be a net gain in lives saved as a result of a free Iraq versus a Saddam Iraq under strict UN sanctions. And finally, Iraqi public opinion can be courted by a benevolent US presence after the fall of Saddam. (If you are referring to the public opinion of the Arab world in general, then you must understand that we are damn if we do and damn if we don't. We are not getting good PR from Al Jeezera no matter what we do. Therefore, you can't allow your policy decisions to be influenced by your perception of potential blow back that may or may not exist. Since there is no correlation between policy modulation and positive PR you would effectively be giving away something for nothing).
[quote]I'm not sure what you're getting at. What is the objective here [?] Is this a creative writing piece, or evidence to support your position [?] ....It fails both ways.....How can you compare the paltry taliban forces with a full-fledged Iraqi army [?] [/quote]
I never made that comparison. You must have not properly read my statement. I was illustrating that the naysayers and doubters are there with every conflict - that these skeptics will always doubt the military potential of the United States. Air power is a big deal, and it does have a significant effect on the outcome of a conflict. I study geo-politics for fun, do you really think that I would compare the Iraqi army to the taliban army? [wacko]
[quote]-Iraq has a fighting-force of 350, 000 troops, (out numbering the Americans and British troops combined) large numbers of tanks and other vehicles, a few old fighter-jets, and NUMEROUS rebel forces which are unaccounted for, and deceptive as anything.[/quote]
350,000 troops, most of whom don't have weapons, shoes or food. Actual numbers matter very little in the kind of modern warfare we are debating. Saddam's actual fighting force is no more than 80,000 troops. Iraq's tanks are old, outdated and not comparable to ours. Why would you even list "a few old fighter jets? Did you need a little more filler to make Iraq look more formidable? The rebel forces are a problem, but they are being isolated within the cities and will be dealt with after the decapitation of the current regime.
[quote]The bottom line is: this war in no "Walk in the park." You make it sound as if everything will go back to normal after the Americans with draw. (as they'll eventually have to) You fail to talk about the instability in the Arab world that will result, and the violence against the United States this could incite......[/quote]
War is never a walk in the park. I simply refuse to submit to a negative perspective on this matter. The glass looks half full to me. I have talked about the instability issue previously. However I will state again, "You can not base your foreign policy approach on potential negative reactions by your adversaries. By doing this you would relegate yourself to constantly playing defense, which is a losing equation in the war on terror." Plus, there are individuals trying to commit acts of violence against us right now anyway. Acting like a scared super power is only going to further encourage the extremist. An American retreat at this point would be tantamount to a collapse of the existing world order.
[quote]-This war could also last MUCH longer than another 4 weeks. You have no reason to believe it will end so quickly......need a history lesson about.....V-I-E-T-N-A-M [?] Or anything else [?][/quote]
It may last longer than four weeks, it may not. I do have reason to believe that the conflict will end quickly because we possess absolute military supremacy over Iraq and an urban conflict (although costly in human life) would be fought with ferocious speed to minimize losses. And no history lessons are necessary. I am superior to you in my knowledge of history as well as my knowledge of geopolitical analyses. Vietnam was fought in a tropical jungle which provided great cover for guerilla forces. Iraq is mostly desert, susceptible to our air superiority. In Vietnam, the VC had the popular support of the people. In Iraq, Saddam brutally oppressed his people and is the friend of no one. Vietnam is not a good comparison. I think you are the one who needs the history lesson.
[quote]True, technology is greatly-improved, but you overestimate the ability of bombs to take out troops. Troops fan-out, and must still be met with other humans. Even "Smart-bombs" are rather primitive and inaccurate in practice-regardless of their complexity....and when troops are used against troops, people die on both sides.[/quote]
Medina division is now at 50% of its initial strength. Do you still want to argue that I over estimate air power. Our technological superiority makes any conflict in an open area suicidal for the Iraqis. They know this, we know this. JDAMS have proven success rates of over 90%. And in spite of the conventional wisdom, I do not believe that the Republican Guard will hole themselves up in Baghdad. I do not believe that Saddam will allow them to enter the city limits. He is afraid they will over throw him. Therefore he will allow them to fight it out in the open suburbs outside of Baghdad, like sitting ducks.
Yes, yes. People die in wars. Wars are bad. Got that already. Wars are also sometimes necessary.
And instead of just criticizing policy, why don't you try to come up with a coherent policy statement of your own? Or is original thought beyond you?
That is all for now. [ph34r]
Edited by Kissinger, 01 April 2003 - 10:50 AM.
#641
Posted 01 April 2003 - 09:17 PM
If they did not have reason before, they now have. The mood of the people on the ground are very different to that portrayed by most of the Western media.."The first casualty of war is the truth" The people are angry and do not speak of the US as 'liberators' but as 'invaders' or the 'enemy' as the only English words many know.
#642
Posted 01 April 2003 - 09:34 PM
"Signs of defiance were everywhere. At Friday prayers a rifle-toting iman urged Arabs around the world to join a jihad in defence of Iraq, while on the streets ordinary Iraqis bougt military uniforms. Enraged civilians screamed their defiance, promising to give 'my life, my blood, for Saddam.'
Whether the people of Baghdad resist the invasion for the sake of their race or out of loyalty to Saddam is hardly more relevant than the fact that they are willing to do so, and at any cost."
B. Schoonmaker, Sunday times March 30 2003
"From the Baghdad suburb of Shu'ale Robert Fisk reports that anger is mounting over civilian death toll as evidence grows that the coalition's 'smart' weaponary is targeting ordinary citizens...
These are the very people whom Bush and Blair expected to rise in insurrection against Hussein. But the anger in the slums are directed at the Americans and British- and without the pressence of the ubiquitous government "minders'."
#643
Posted 01 April 2003 - 10:15 PM
Pres. Hosni Moebarak of Egypt said: "When it is over, this war will have terrible consequences, there will be a 100 new Bin Ladens". He added that the war will push more Muslims to anti-Western millitancy, there will be more international terrorism.- Beeld, 1 April 2003
The Islamic Jihad said it has sent a first wave of suicide bombers to Iraq to help the Iraqis fight Americans
Baghdad gave chilling warning that British and US cities would be targeted by suicide bombers as 'routine military policy."
An Iraqi military spokesperson said 4000 wiling 'matyrs' from across the Arab world were already in Iraq to fight
The Star March 31 2003
#644
Posted 01 April 2003 - 10:43 PM
#645
Posted 02 April 2003 - 01:33 AM
Why do you think there has been no anger around the world about the Iraqi government's use of torture and terror? Do people in your country know about the Kurds or Shia who have been subject to mass executions? If so, what has been proposed as action to stop this?
I cannot fathom how so many countries around the world turn their head and allow such atrocities to occur on such a grand scale, when we have the opportunity to do something. Resolutions and discusions have done nothing except prolong the suffering. I know the perception is that the U.S. is being imperialistic but that judgement is not a fair one until the war is over and we see what happens with Iraq. The U.S. and U.K. will save many more lives in the long run by acting now.
Edited by Mind, 02 April 2003 - 11:20 PM.
#646
Posted 02 April 2003 - 01:53 AM
The South African Government gave up its NBC weapons program when the reality of using them to quell domestic unrest became obvious and the possibility of the weapons going rogue between competing paramilitaries and rebels became likely if they didn't. And some biological weapons (smallpox) were probably used on domestic rebels. (...In a neighboring country; Zimbabwe, were now we are facing a mirror problem of Mugabe that terrorizes his own people and doesn't bother with pursuing WMD's).
The rest of the world isn't supporting Saddam, they are becoming angered and terrified of US. All they need to do is unite against us and they can do to us what we have been threatening to do to them. So why are we threatening anyway?
There is little more bombastic then when people in my country are lecturing people that have survived under oppressive regimes about how they should just be like us and it would all be better. Saille is only relating how people abroad see us. You don't have to like it, but we had better all begin to take it more seriously, because she is only telling it like it is.
Oh and we in the United States didn't make South Africa Democratic, it is another example of a domestic popular process that US Federal policy only interfered with negatively. The situation improved immediately after they got out of the way.
Edited by Lazarus Long, 02 April 2003 - 02:46 AM.
#647
Posted 02 April 2003 - 02:29 AM
bob
http://www.msnbc.com...p?0cv=KA01#BODY

The Arrogant Empire (Part I and Part III included)
America’s unprecedented power scares the world, and the Bush administration has only made it worse. How we got here—and what we can do about it now
By Fareed Zakaria - NEWSWEEK
March 24 issue — PART I: The United States will soon be at war with Iraq. It would seem, on the face of it, a justifiable use of military force. Saddam Hussein runs one of the most tyrannical regimes in modern history.
FOR MORE THAN 25 years he has sought to acquire chemical, biological and nuclear weapons, and has, in several documented cases, succeeded. He gassed 60,000 of his own people in 1986 in Halabja. He has launched two catastrophic wars, sacrificing nearly a million Iraqis and killing or wounding more than a million Iranians. He has flouted 16 United Nations resolutions over 12 years that have warned him to disarm or else, including one, four months ago, giving him a “final opportunity” to do so “fully and immediately” or face “serious consequences.” But in its campaign against Iraq, America is virtually alone. Never will it have waged a war in such isolation. Never have so many of its allies been so firmly opposed to its policies. Never has it provoked so much public opposition, resentment and mistrust. And all this before the first shot has been fired.
Watching the tumult around the world, it’s evident that what is happening goes well beyond this particular crisis. Many people, both abroad and in America, fear that we are at some kind of turning point, where well-established mainstays of the global order—the Western Alliance, European unity, the United Nations—seem to be cracking under stress. These strains go well beyond the matter of Iraq, which is not vital enough to wreak such damage. In fact, the debate is not about Saddam anymore. It is about America and its role in the new world. To understand the present crisis, we must first grasp how the rest of the world now perceives American power.
It is true that the United States has some allies in its efforts to topple Saddam. It is also true that some of the governments opposing action in Iraq do so not for love of peace and international harmony but for more cynical reasons. France and Russia have a long history of trying to weaken the containment of Iraq to ensure that they can have good trading relations with it. France, after all, helped Saddam Hussein build a nuclear reactor that was obviously a launching pad for a weapons program. (Why would the world’s second largest oil producer need a nuclear power plant?) And France’s Gaullist tendencies are, of course, simply its own version of unilateralism.
But how to explain that the vast majority of the world, with little to gain from it, is in the Franco-Russian camp? The administration claims that many countries support the United States but do so quietly. That signals an even deeper problem. Countries are furtive in their support for the administration not because they fear Saddam Hussein but because they fear their own people. To support America today in much of the world is politically dangerous. Over the past year the United States became a campaign issue in elections in Germany, South Korea and Pakistan. Being anti-American was a vote-getter in all three places.
Look at the few countries that do publicly support us. Tony Blair bravely has forged ahead even though the vast majority of the British people disagree with him and deride him as “America’s poodle.” The leaders of Spain and Italy face equally strong public opposition to their stands. Donald Rumsfeld has proclaimed, with his characteristic tactlessness, that while “old Europe”—France and Germany—might oppose U.S. policy, “new Europe” embraces them. This is not exactly right. The governments of Central Europe support Washington, but the people oppose it in almost the same numbers as in old Europe. Between 70 and 80 percent of Hungarians, Czechs and Poles are against an American war in Iraq, with or without U.N. sanction. (The Poles are more supportive in some surveys.) The administration has made much of the support of Vaclav Havel, the departing Czech president. But the incoming president, Vaclav Klaus—a pro-American, Thatcherite free-marketer—said last week that on Iraq his position is aligned with that of his people.
Some make the argument that Europeans are now pacifists, living in a “postmodern paradise,” shielded from threats and unable to imagine the need for military action. But then how to explain the sentiment in Turkey, a country that sits on the Iraqi border? A longtime ally, Turkey has fought with America in conflicts as distant as the Korean War, and supported every American military action since then. But opposition to the war now runs more than 90 percent there. Despite Washington’s offers of billions of dollars in new assistance, the government cannot get parliamentary support to allow American troops to move into Iraq from Turkish bases. Or consider Australia, another crucial ally, and another country where a majority now opposes American policy. Or Ireland. Or India. In fact, while the United States has the backing of a dozen or so governments, it has the support of a majority of the people in only one country in the world, Israel. If that is not isolation, then the word has no meaning.
It is also too easy to dismiss the current crisis as one more in a series of transatlantic family squabbles that stretch back over the decades. Some in Washington have pointed out that whenever the United States has taken strong military action—for example, the deployment of Pershing nuclear missiles in Europe in the early 1980s—there was popular opposition in Europe. True, but this time it’s different. The street demonstrations and public protests of the early 1980s made for good television images. But the reality was that in most polls, 30 to 40 percent of Europeans supported American policies. In Germany, where pacifist feelings ran sky high, 53 percent of Germans supported the Pershing deployments, according to a 1981 poll in Der Spiegel. In France, a majority supported American policy through much of Ronald Reagan’s two terms, even prefer-ring him to the Democratic candidate, Walter Mondale, in 1984.
Josef Joffe, one of Germany’s leading commentators, observes that during the cold war anti-Americanism was a left-wing phenomenon. “In contrast to it, there was always a center-right that was anti-communist and thus pro-American,” he explains. “The numbers waxed and waned, but you always had a solid base of support for the United States.” The cold war kept Europe pro-American. For example, 1968 was a time of mass protests against American policies in Vietnam, but it was also the year of the Soviet invasion of Czechoslovakia. Europeans (and Asians) could oppose America, but their views were balanced by wariness of the Soviet threat and communist behavior. Again, the polls bear this out. European opposition even to the Vietnam War never approached the level of the current opposition to Iraq. This was true outside Europe as well. In Australia, for example, a majority of the public supported that country’s participation in the Vietnam War through 1971, when it withdrew its forces.
But today no such common threat exists, and support for America is far more fluid. Center-right parties might still support Washington, but many do so almost out of inertia and without much popular support for their stand. During the recent German election, Gerhard Schroder campaigned openly against America’s Iraq policy. Less noted was that his conservative opponent, Edmund Stoiber, did so as well, at one point (briefly) outflanking Schroder by saying he would not even allow American bases in Germany to participate in the war.
In one respect, I believe that the Bush administration is right: this war will look better when it is over. The military campaign will probably be less difficult than many of Washington’s opponents think. Most important, it will reveal the nature of Saddam’s barbarous regime. Prisoners and political dissidents will tell stories of atrocities. Horrific documents will come to light. Weapons of mass destruction will be found. If done right, years from now people will remember above all that America helped rid Iraq of a totalitarian dictator.
But the administration is wrong if it believes that a successful war will make the world snap out of a deep and widening mistrust and resentment of American foreign policy. A war with Iraq, even if successful, might solve the Iraq problem. It doesn’t solve the America problem. What worries people around the world above all else is living in a world shaped and dominated by one country—the United States. And they have come to be deeply suspicious and fearful of us.
PART III: WHERE BUSH WENT WRONG
George W. Bush came into office with few developed ideas about foreign policy. He didn’t seem much interested in the world. During the years that his father was envoy to China, ambassador to the United Nations, director of the CIA and vice president, Bush traveled two or three times outside the country. Candidate Bush’s vision amounted mostly to carving out positions different from his predecessor. Many conservatives thought the Clinton administration was over-involved in the world, especially in nation-building, and hectoring in its diplomacy. So Bush argued that America should be “a humble nation,” scale back its commitments abroad and not involve itself in rebuilding other countries.
Yet other conservatives, a number of whom became powerful within the administration, had a more sweeping agenda. Since the early ’90s, they had argued that the global landscape was marked by two realities. One was American power. The post-cold-war world was overwhelmingly unipolar. The other was the spread of new international treaties and laws. The end of the cold war had given a boost to efforts to create a global consensus on topics like war crimes, land mines and biological weapons. Both observations were accurate. From them, however, these Bush officials drew the strange conclusion that America had little freedom to move in this new world. “The picture it painted in its early months was of a behemoth thrashing about against constraints that only it could see,” notes the neoconservative writer Robert Kagan. For much of the world, it was mystifying to hear the most powerful country in the history of the world speak as though it were a besieged nation, boxed in on all sides.
In its first year the administration withdrew from five international treaties—and did so as brusquely as it could. It reneged on virtually every diplomatic effort that the Clinton administration had engaged in, from North Korea to the Middle East, often overturning public statements from Colin Powell supporting these efforts. It developed a language and diplomatic style that seemed calculated to offend the world. (President Bush has placed a portrait of Theodore Roosevelt in the White House. TR’s most famous words of advice are worth recalling: “Speak softly and carry a big stick.”) Key figures in the administration rarely traveled, foreign visitors were treated to perfunctory office visits, and state dinners were unheard of. On an annual basis, George W. Bush has visited fewer foreign countries than any president in 40 years. Still, he does better than Dick Cheney, who has been abroad only once since becoming vice president.
September 11 only added a new layer of assertiveness to Bush’s foreign policy. Understandably shocked and searching for responses, the administration decided that it needed total freedom of action. When NATO, for the first time in its history, invoked the self-defense clause and offered America carte-blanche assistance, the administration essentially ignored it. It similarly marginalized NATO in the Afghan war. NATO has its limitations, which were powerfully revealed during the Kosovo campaign, but the signal this sent to our closest allies was that America didn’t need them. Thus as seen by the rest of the world, 9-11 had a distressingly paradoxical effect. It produced a mobilization of American power and yet a narrowing of American interests. Suddenly, Washington was more powerful and determined to act. But it would act only for its own core security and even pre-emptively when it needed to. Bush later announced an expansive, vague Wilsonian vision—which has merit—but his style and methods overshadowed its potential promise.
The Bush administration could reasonably point out that it doesn’t get enough credit for reaching out to the rest of the world. President Bush has, after all, worked with the United Nations on Iraq, increased foreign aid by 50 percent, announced a $15 billion AIDS program and formally endorsed a Palestinian state. Yet none of these actions seems to earn him any good will. The reason for this is plain. In almost every case, the administration comes to multilateralism grudgingly, reluctantly, and with a transparent lack of sincerity. For a year now, President Bush has dismissed the notion that he should make any effort toward a Middle East peace process, even though it would have defused some of the anti-Americanism in the region as he sought to confront Iraq. Suddenly last week, to gain allies on Iraq and at the insistence of Tony Blair, Bush made a belated gesture toward the peace process. Is it surprising that people are not hailing this last-minute conversion?
Nowhere has this appearance of diplomatic hypocrisy been more striking than on Iraq. The president got high marks for his superb speech at the Security Council last September, urging the United Nations to get serious about enforcing its resolutions on Iraq and to try inspections one last time. Unfortunately, that appeal had been preceded by speeches by Cheney and comments by Rumsfeld calling inspections a sham—statements that actually contradicted American policy—and making clear that the administration had decided to go to war. The only debate was whether to have the United Nations rubber-stamp this policy. To make matters worse, weeks after the new U.S.-sponsored U.N. resolution calling for fresh inspections, the administration began large-scale deployments on Iraq’s border. Diplomatically, it had promised a good-faith effort to watch how the inspections were going; militarily, it was gearing up for war with troops that could not stay ready in the desert forever. Is it any wonder that other countries, even those that would be willing to endorse a war with Iraq, have felt that the diplomacy was a charade, pursued simply to allow time for military preparations?
President Bush’s favorite verb is “expect.” He announces peremptorily that he “expects” the Palestinians to dump Yasir Arafat, “expects” countries to be with him or against him, “expects” Turkey to cooperate. It is all part of the administration’s basic approach toward foreign policy, which is best described by the phrase used for its war plan—”shock and awe.” The notion is that the United States needs to intimidate countries with its power and assertiveness, always threatening, always denouncing, never showing weakness. Donald Rumsfeld often quotes a line from Al Capone: “You will get more with a kind word and a gun than with a kind word alone.”
But should the guiding philosophy of the world’s leading democracy really be the tough talk of a Chicago mobster? In terms of effectiveness, this strategy has been a disaster. It has alienated friends and delighted enemies. Having traveled around the world and met with senior government officials in dozens of countries over the past year, I can report that with the exception of Britain and Israel, every country the administration has dealt with feels humiliated by it. “Most officials in Latin American countries today are not anti-American types,” says Jorge Castaneda, the reformist foreign minister of Mexico, who resigned two months ago. “We have studied in the United States or worked there. We like and understand America. But we find it extremely irritating to be treated with utter contempt.” Last fall, a senior ambassador to the United Nations, in a speech supporting America’s position on Iraq, added an innocuous phrase that could have been seen as deviating from that support. The Bush administration called up his foreign minister and demanded that he be formally reprimanded within an hour. The ambassador now seethes when he talks about U.S. arrogance. Does this really help America’s cause in the world? There are dozens of stories like this from every part of the world.
In diplomacy, style is often substance. Consider this fact: the Clinton administration used force on three important occasions—Bosnia, Haiti and Kosovo. In none of them did it take the matter to the United Nations Security Council, and there was little discussion that it needed to do so. Indeed, Kofi Annan later made statements that seemed to justify the action in Kosovo, explaining that state sovereignty should not be used as a cover for humanitarian abuses. Today Annan has (wrongly) announced that American action in Iraq outside the United Nations will be “illegal.” While the Clinton administration—or the first Bush administration—was assertive in many ways, people did not seek assurances about its intentions. The Bush administration does not bear all the blame for this dramatic change in attitudes. Because of 9-11, it has had to act forcefully on the world stage and assert American power. But that should have been all the more reason to adopt a posture of consultation and cooperation while doing what needed to be done. The point is to scare our enemies, not terrify the rest of the world.
#648
Posted 02 April 2003 - 03:07 AM
The point is to scare our enemies, not terrify the rest of the world.
Unless the point was to also terrify our friends and makes sure they got the message too. Also Wolfowitz, Krauthammer, Krystal, et al have been gunning for the UN all along.
There are two basic mindsets on what is happening by those abroad studying us, and opposing; one is that we are intentionly destroying the diplomatic process in favor of demonstrating an example of Ultra Violence, a la Israeli policy vis a vie the Palestinians, or second that we are just incompetant.
Oh, there are those that are trying to jump on the bandwagon of the Hegemon so that would be a third option actually. And it is also possible that this war is for domestic consumption primarily as well, but it didn't have to happen this way at all. This war is illegal regardless of how panicked some neoconservatives are about global events and this is generally making things worse abroad, not better.
Making this preemptive assault is tantamount to a violation of rights under our law that would be called a denial of haebus corpus. It is also a denial of due process and it is wholly against the principles we are claiming to want to spread and uphold. But it is consistent with us attempting a global takeover of markets, shipping, and sole autocratic determiner of security and police priviledge.
We are attempting to circumvent a process of legitimizing global law and instead are trying to claim a supreme voice on all global security matters that confront the Earth and frankly most countries object, most people object, and most governments, including OUR ALLIES find the approach and implications of the precedent horrendous.
It may be intentional on the part of our government to force a democratic domino effect on the region, but as I have tried to show before this is more likely to contribute to al Qaeda's objectives then our own.
It has even increased the rate of NBC proliferation and destabilizing Pakistan at this time could trigger a war between India and them at the same time as loosening nukes into all the regional (i.e. Syria, Iran, Afganistan, AND DPRK N.Korea etc) conflicts of that part of the world.
I heard today that Pakistan's arsenal is "conservatively" estimated at over 50 deliverable nuclear warheads already primed and loaded on ICBM's. A popular islamic revolt at the polls would mean that we are forced to prop up Mushariff as the military dictator we helped install in the first place. India is already accusing us of supporting terrorism for our support of Pakistan its support of forces in the Kashmir.
Pakistan's missile program was in great measure built through help from the DPRK, and they have long term trade ties for WMD tech and Intelligence. Now you want more arcane, there are still NBC stockpiles in the former Soviet States.
Edited by Lazarus Long, 02 April 2003 - 03:21 AM.
#649
Posted 02 April 2003 - 04:54 AM
http://www.iranexper...kers31march.htm
31 March EURASIA
Iranian Policy-Makers Walk on Thin Ice as War Rages Across The Border
In Abadan, a southwestern Iranian city known for its gentle breezes from the Arvand River, a group of Iranians gather each night to watch the fighting just across the border in Iraq. Meanwhile, in the Iranian capital of Tehran, policy-makers are also watching the war closely – with decidedly mixed feelings. While most Iranians welcome the effort to oust Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein, many are wary of US strategic intentions in the Persian Gulf.
Iranian policy-makers – both reformists agitating for greater political and social change, and conservatives jealously guarding the status quo – harbor no love for Saddam Hussein’s regime. Iraq invaded Iran in 1980, gassed Iranian soldiers, and lobbed missiles into Iranian cities in a devastating 1980-88 war that led to nearly 1 million casualties on both sides. Officials in Tehran say a nuclear-armed Iraq would, arguably, pose a greater threat to Iran than any other nation in the world.
As far as Iranian policy-makers are concerned, the end of Saddam Hussein’s regime would eliminate a potential long-term threat to the Islamic Republic. Iranian Vice-President Mohammad Ali Abtahi puts it bluntly: "The overthrow of Saddam Hussein would be good news for everyone, the Iraqis, the Iranians and the entire Muslim world." And yet, Iranian policy-makers remain worried. Why? Because the "eliminator" – the United States – also makes Iranian officialdom uncomfortable.
Said Hajjarian, President Mohammed Khatami’s chief strategist, argued in an article that since regime change in Iraq is inevitable, Iran must remain neutral in order to accomplish two goals: "guarantee that the next regime in Baghdad will not be hostile to Iran, and a guarantee that we are not [Washington’s] next target."
Hajjarian’s concern about the Bush administration is shared by many officials in Tehran. Iranian policy makers have mused loudly that they could be next on Washington’s "hit list." US leaders, in particular US Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, have done little to discourage such speculation in Iran. On March 28, for example, Rumsfeld cautioned Iran about the need to restrain an Iraqi force, known as the Badr Corps, which is supported by the Iranian Revolutionary Guards. The Badr Corps has reportedly taken up positions in Iraq, where it could possibly interfere with US military operations.
Officials in Tehran tend to see the US campaign in Iraq within a broader regional context. Ali Akbar Velayati, the influential foreign affairs advisor to Iran’s Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, said: "[America] is coming to Iraq to complete its encirclement of our Islamic Republic before it moves against us."
The American occupation of Iraq would effectively result in the "encirclement" of Iran, whether intended or not: American troops would be present, active or potentially mobilized in the Persian Gulf, Central Asia, the Caucasus and South-Central Asia (Afghanistan and Pakistan).
Encirclement fears in Tehran are exacerbated by a chorus of influential voices in Washington loudly calling for the overthrow of the Iranian regime. Prominent among these voices are conservative policy analysts, including those at American Enterprise Institute, who have close links to the Bush administration and who pushed for war against Iraq.
Given its precarious position, torn between two foes, Iran has been playing a double game: loud public denunciations of the United States and stated opposition to the war, coupled with quiet cooperation and/or tacit acceptance of the likely US victory.
Take, for example, Iran’s relatively muted reaction to several stray US missiles landing in southwest Iran, missiles that certainly raised eyebrows in Iran given the precision nature of American bombing. Iranian Foreign Minister Kamal Kharrazi downplayed it. Another example is Iran’s refusal to allow fleeing Ansar al-Islam Kurdish fighters into Iranian territory after a US attack on their enclave in the northeast corner of Iraq. Iranian officials feared the US reaction to the possibility of extremist Kurdish Ansar fighters, with ties to al Qaeda, finding refuge in Iran. Tehran has also closed its eyes to repeated violations of its airspace by American jets.
Even the normally hard-line Supreme Leader Ayatollah Khamenei, whose control over the armed services, the judiciary and the security services makes him Iran’s most powerful figure, acknowledges Iran’s war dilemma. "We are not defending the Iraqi dictator or the Baath [Party] regime of Iraq. We know them better than anyone else. We have felt their missiles and their chemical weapons with our own flesh."
Still, Khamenei expressed skepticism with US war aims: "Their aim is to occupy Iraq, dominate the Middle East region and gain total control of this precious treasure, namely oil."
And yet, the Islamic Republic – with the full backing of Khamenei – assists the war effort by hosting meetings of leading Iraqi opposition groups, including the two main rival Kurdish camps, the leading Shi’a opposition group, and members of the CIA-funded Iraqi National Congress. Iran has hosted the Shi’a opposition group known as the Supreme Council of the Islamic Revolution in Iraq (SCIRI), since 1980, and has trained its 8,000 member militia.
Meanwhile, exacerbating Iranian officialdom’s war worries is a restive population that has repeatedly expressed overwhelming frustration with the current order. When given a chance in the last six years, Iranians have repeatedly voted for reform at the ballot box. As the reform movement sputters in the face of conservative intransigence, Iranians sent a chilling message to reformers in recent municipal elections: they stayed away from the ballot box in droves, with only 12 percent turn-out in Tehran and 38 percent nationwide, starkly lower than previous 75 percent-plus turnouts. [For background see the Eurasia Insight archive].
This loud silence of the majority reflects deep-seated frustration with government gridlock, a stagnant economy and the failed promises of reformist leaders. More ominously, leading student reformist groups have recently announced their independence from what they view as timid reformers and have called for civil disobedience campaigns.
Iranian policy-makers are thus left in an unenviable position: they certainly cannot match American military might, they’ve largely lost the allegiance of their frustrated population, and they must contend with the possibility of increased protests and civil disobedience.
Edited by Lazarus Long, 02 April 2003 - 04:59 AM.
#650
Posted 02 April 2003 - 04:56 AM
Edited by Kissinger, 02 April 2003 - 04:57 AM.
#651
Posted 02 April 2003 - 05:01 AM
The End of Appeasement
Bush's opportunity to redeem America's past failures in the Middle East.
Max Boot
02/10/2003
FOLLOWING HANS BLIX'S devastating report and President Bush's compelling State of the Union address, Saddam Hussein looks more and more like a dead man walking. In all likelihood, Baghdad will be liberated by April. This may turn out to be one of those hinge moments in history--events like the storming of the Bastille or the fall of the Berlin Wall--after which everything is different. If the occupation goes well (admittedly a big if), it may mark the moment when the powerful antibiotic known as democracy was introduced into the diseased environment of the Middle East, and began to transform the region for the better. For the United States, this represents perhaps the last, best chance to do what it has singularly failed to do since World War II--to provide the Middle East with effective imperial oversight. It is not entirely America's fault, but our mismanagement and misconceptions have allowed a backward, once insignificant region to become arguably the main threat to the security of the United States and the entire West.
In centuries past, the wild and unruly passions of the Islamic world were kept within tight confines by firm, often ruthless imperial authority, mainly Ottoman, but, starting in the late 19th century, increasingly British and French. These distant masters did not always rule wisely or well, but they generally prevented the region from menacing the security of the outside world. When the pirates of the Barbary Coast (as Europeans called North Africa) could not be dealt with by the payment of ransom, the new American republic, and then the Europeans, took matters into their own hands. Ultimately, Algiers, Tripoli, Morocco, and Tunis were colonized, and thus ended their piratical threat. When a group of Egyptian army officers led by an early-day Nasser named Arabi Pasha tried to seize power in 1882, the British occupied the country, and wound up administering it from behind the scenes for decades to come. When a fanatical Islamic sect led by a self-proclaimed Mahdi (or messiah) took over the Sudan, and threatened to spread its extremist violence throughout the Islamic world, Gen. Horatio Herbert Kitchener snuffed out the movement in a hail of gunfire at the Battle of Omdurman in 1898. When a pro-Nazi regime took power in Baghdad in 1941, the British intervened to topple the offending dictator, Rashid Ali.
Strong medicine, that. And no longer considered acceptable in today's post-colonial world. As America slowly took over Britain's oversight role after 1945, Washington tried self-consciously to carve out a different style of leadership, one that was meant to distinguish the virtuous Americans from the grasping, greedy imperialists who had come before. America wanted to show that it sympathized with the Arabs, Persians, and Muslims, had no designs on their lands or oil wealth, and would not even choose sides in their struggle to eradicate the nascent state of Israel. Unfortunately America showed something else--that we were weak, and could be attacked, economically and physically and rhetorically, with impunity. That we were a paper tiger--or, to use Osama bin Laden's metaphor, a "weak horse." "When people see a strong horse and a weak horse," the leader of al Qaeda has said, "by nature they will like the strong horse." It is no wonder that America today has so few real friends in the region. Why would anyone ride alongside a weak horse?
This may seem an odd statement to make, since America is often accused of being a bully, in the Mideast as elsewhere. Yet the record shows precious little bullying--indeed not enough. Note that the last time the United States played a pivotal role in a Mideast change of government (if one overlooks Bill Clinton's campaign against Benjamin Netanyahu in Israel's 1999 election) was in 1953, when the CIA, along with Britain's MI6, helped to depose Iranian prime minister Mohammed Mossadegh. Considering how many violently anti-American regimes have existed in the Middle East since World War II, America's failure to overthrow more of them is a testament to our passivity and forbearance.
This is not to suggest that the U.S. record in the Mideast during the past 50 years has been exclusively weak and pusillanimous. There have been occasional flashes of principle and infrequent displays of strength. Some of the more prominent include: Truman's ultimatum that forced the Soviets to evacuate Iran in 1946 and his decision two years later to override all his foreign policy advisers by recognizing Israel; Eisenhower's dispatch of Marines to support the Lebanese government in 1958; Nixon and Kissinger's backing of Israel with emergency arms shipments during the 1973 Yom Kippur War; Reagan's bombing of Libya in 1986 and protection of Gulf shipping from Iranian attacks in 1987-88; and, most recently, George H.W. Bush's resounding victory in the Persian Gulf War of 1991. All these actions are very much to America's credit, and have done much to serve U.S. interests in the region.
Unfortunately America's record of failure is more glaring, starting with the Suez Crisis, continuing in the run-up to the Six Day War, the oil crisis of the 1970s, the Iranian revolution, subsequent terrorist attacks against the United States by radical Islamists, and the failure to depose Saddam Hussein. A broad generalization may stretch the truth but not break it: America was strong in resisting Soviet designs on the region but weak in the face of Arab nationalism and Islamic extremism. Indeed, the United States usually sought to make common cause with Arabs and Persians against the Soviet Union. This may have been a sound short-term strategy--it did contribute to the defeat of the Evil Empire--but its unintended long-term consequence has been to leave behind a poisonous legacy of anti-Americanism, despotism, and corruption that poses a stark challenge to the 21st-century world.
Nasser
THE PATTERN of American weakness was set early on, during the 1956 Suez Crisis, which serves as a kind of template for everything the United States has done wrong in the region for the past several decades. In the immediate run-up to the crisis, the United States tried unsuccessfully to court Gamal Abdel Nasser, who had emerged as the leader of the group of Egyptian army officers that overthrew King Farouk in 1952. President Eisenhower thought he could lure Nasser to the Western camp by offering him support, such as loans to build the Aswan Dam, which would supply most of his country's electricity. But Nasser spurned the West by taking a prominent role at the Bandung Conference of nonaligned nations and by extending diplomatic recognition to the People's Republic of China. His radio station, the Voice of the Arabs, blared out a daily stream of vituperation against the West and its friends in the region, while Nasser's agents tried to subvert these "lackeys of imperialism." Like most dictators, Nasser gave top priority to getting his hands on copious stockpiles of weapons. When Washington, not wanting to fuel a regional arms race, refused to provide them, he turned to the Soviet bloc.
In 1955 the Kremlin agreed, through its Czech puppets, to supply Nasser with an awesome array of weaponry including 200 jet airplanes and 100 tanks. This would have tilted the regional balance of power sharply against Israel, which possessed only 20 jet aircraft of its own. Prime Minister David Ben Gurion asked Washington to guarantee Israel's security and supply it with weapons to counter the growing Egyptian threat. Eisenhower and his secretary of state, John Foster Dulles, refused. Their policy was centered on the Alpha Project, one of countless American attempts to broker peace between Israel and its enemies. In their pursuit of this chimerical goal, Eisenhower and Dulles decided that Israel would get no security assistance from the United States until a full settlement had been reached with the Arabs.
Such a settlement is still elusive almost 50 years later, but in the meantime Israel faced a pressing danger. The Israel Defense Forces estimated that Czech weapons would begin flowing to Egypt by November 1955, and that it would take six to eight months for the Egyptians to assimilate the inflow. Chief of Staff Moshe Dayan calculated that Egypt would be ready to attack Israel by late spring 1956. Already the danger loomed; Nasser was sponsoring guerrilla raids into Israel, blockading the southern Israeli port of Eilat, and not allowing Israeli shipping access to the Suez Canal.
Since Washington would not help, Israel turned to states that would--first France and then Britain. They had their own beef with Nasser, who on July 26, 1956, nationalized the Suez Canal Company. The canal, which was owned (and had been built) by an Anglo-French consortium, was the transit point for two-thirds of Europe's oil supplies. Neither London nor Paris was willing to cede control of this vital waterway to a power-mad dictator who was increasingly allied with the Communist bloc. Since Washington was not interested in helping its closest allies, they got together with Israel, and in the secret Protocol of Sèvres, agreed on a joint operation to seize the canal and overthrow Nasser.
The plan began to unfold on October 29, 1956, when Israeli forces moved into the Sinai desert, effortlessly overrunning Egyptian positions. France and Britain issued an ultimatum calling on both sides to stop fighting and pull back 10 miles from the canal. Israel agreed, but Egypt didn't, and on October 31, Anglo-French forces began bombing Egyptian military positions. A few days later, on November 5, they occupied Port Said, which controlled the Mediterranean entrance to the canal, with little resistance. Nasser responded by scuttling old ships filled with cement to block the canal. His allies in Damascus sabotaged the oil pipeline linking Iraq to the Mediterranean, thus interrupting a major source of Europe's oil supplies. Saudi Arabia embargoed oil shipments to France and Britain, and acts of sabotage shut down Kuwait's supply system.
A looming oil shortage could have been averted with continued military action by Israel, France, and Britain to open the canal and overthrow Nasser. The inept Egyptian armed forces posed little obstacle. But the allies could not cope with the overwhelming pressure brought by President Eisenhower, who didn't want to "get the Arabs sore at all of us" and who was eager to paint the United States as opposed to imperialism, whether conducted by the Soviet Union in Hungary or by France and Britain in Egypt. There was little Washington could or would do to force the Soviet Union to disgorge Hungary, but America had plenty of leverage with its allies, and didn't hesitate to use it.
Ike began by pushing a resolution through the United Nations demanding the British, Israeli, and French troops withdraw immediately. When Britain balked, Eisenhower tightened the economic screws. The crisis was causing a run on sterling and a major depletion of Britain's scant oil reserves, which, if allowed to continue, would lead to an economic meltdown. The United States had contingency plans to provide loans and emergency oil supplies to Britain, but Eisenhower refused to activate them as long as British troops remained in Egypt. He wanted to force the British and French "to work out their own oil problem--to boil in their own oil, so to speak." Faced with unremitting pressure from their most powerful benefactor, Britain, France, and Israel had no choice but to withdraw.
British prime minister Anthony Eden complained in his memoirs, with considerable justice, "In recent years the United States has sometimes failed to put its weight behind its friends, in the hope of being popular with their foes." At first this cynical gambit--precisely what the United States often accuses its European allies of doing--seemed to pay dividends. U.N. ambassador Henry Cabot Lodge reported to Eisenhower that he was deluged with support from Third World countries--and not just from their diplomats. Even U.N. busboys, typists, and elevator operators, Lodge crowed, "have been offering their congratulations." But the outpourings of support quickly faded, to be replaced by the same sullen resentment, envy, and hatred that had once been directed against the British and the French.
The immediate impact of the Suez Crisis was to give a major impetus to Nasser in his grandiose plans to unite the entire Arab world under his tyrannical rule. He was seen as the first Arab in hundreds of years to have defeated the forces of Christendom. Britain, France, and America were perceived to be on the run. Pro-Western rulers were deemed to be puppets ripe for elimination.
In the spring of 1957, Nasserite army officers tried, and failed, to overthrow King Hussein of Jordan. Arab nationalists were more successful in Iraq, where the Hashemite royal family was murdered in a 1958 coup d'état. That same year Egypt and Syria combined to form the United Arab Republic, which received substantial military support from the USSR. Eisenhower sensed, too late, the Nasserite danger, and proclaimed the Eisenhower Doctrine to help friendly Middle Eastern regimes. In 1958, as part of this doctrine, he landed 15,000 Marines in Beirut to stabilize the Christian government against a Muslim uprising. But while this may have helped keep Lebanon out of Nasserite hands, it did not discourage Nasser from further adventurism. In 1962 he dispatched 50,000 troops to Yemen, where they became embroiled in a civil war against the Saudi-backed monarchy.
A few years later Nasser turned his attention back to the "Zionist entity." Following the 1956 war, the United States had forced Israel to disgorge its territorial gains in the Sinai. To assuage Israel's security concerns, a U.N. peacekeeping force was inserted into the area. On May 16, 1967, Nasser asked the U.N. to remove its troops, and Secretary General U Thant cravenly complied. Nothing now stood in the way of Egyptian troops, who massed near Israel's border. Five days later, Nasser announced that he was closing the Straits of Tiran, thus keeping Israeli shipping out of the Gulf of Aqaba, its only outlet to the Red Sea. This was a blatant violation of international law. But although President Johnson declared Nasser's action illegal, he did not order the U.S. Navy to run the blockade and preserve the freedom of the seas--as Eisenhower had pledged ten years before that America would do if the straits were ever closed. Johnson counseled Levi Eshkol not to take matters into his own hands, either, but the Israeli prime minister decided he had no choice. On June5, Israel launched a series of lightning strikes against its neighbors that delivered a resounding victory in just six days. This was the second straight Arab-Israeli war that the United States had failed to prevent by not offering firm support to Israel beforehand. By jollying Nasser along, Washington had only encouraged his far-flung designs.
The United States likewise did little to forestall Egypt's next attempt to wipe Israel off the map, which occurred during the Yom Kippur holiday in 1973. But at least the Nixon administration, to its great credit, rushed emergency deliveries of arms to Israel when it appeared that the Jewish state stood on the brink of annihilation. Nixon and his secretary of state, Henry Kissinger, hoped to maintain a public stance of neutrality by hiding these arms shipments from the Arab states. But the ruse fell apart when foul weather delayed some giant C-5A transport planes laden with U.S. military supplies. They were supposed to land in Israel under cover of darkness; instead they descended in the middle of the day on October 14, their insignia clear for all to see. Before long America was embroiled in its next Middle East crisis--this one centered on the oil-producing states of the Persian Gulf.
Just as the United States had done a poor job of assuming Britain's imperial role in Egypt, so now it did an equally poor job in the Gulf.
The Sheikhs
PRIME MINISTER HAROLD WILSON announced in 1968 that Britain was withdrawing from its military commitments "east of Suez." The Pax Britannica was defunct, the Pax Americana did not yet exist. The small Gulf states--Kuwait, Oman, Qatar, Bahrain, and what would become the United Arab Emirates--were on their own. Deprived, against their will, of British protection, the sheikhs had to make common cause with their large, dangerous neighbors. It is perhaps no coincidence that within two years of the final British pullout in 1971, these Gulf states were presenting a major challenge to the West. The British pullout had left a power vacuum that the United States, embroiled in Vietnam and, before long, Watergate, was unable to fill. Instead President Nixon outsourced the protection of the Gulf to America's great friends, the shah of Iran and the king of Saudi Arabia, who became two of the world's biggest buyers of U.S. arms. Nixon saw them as "Twin Pillars" of stability in the region, but they were also twin pillars of the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries.
OPEC, formed in 1960, had little success in controlling oil prices, because non-OPEC oil reserves, especially in the United States, had produced a lot of excess capacity. But by the early 1970s, fast economic growth in Japan, Western Europe, and the United States had strained oil stocks. Now there was little give in the market, leaving the oil-producing states maximum leverage to raise prices.
The OPEC countries were ready to seize the moment, having already nationalized their oil industries. Oil fields across the world had been developed at great risk and expense by Western oil companies. At the stroke of a pen, various dictators in effect stole these assets--and heard nary a peep of protest from Washington. The trend had begun in Mexico in the 1930s and spread to the Middle East in 1951, when Prime Minister Mossadegh crafted, and the shah signed, a law nationalizing Iran's oil industry. All British oil company employees were summarily booted out of the country.
This decision, which occurred amid turmoil and violence (a previous, anti-nationalization prime minister had been assassinated by Islamic terrorists), caused great consternation in London, since a British company (Anglo-Iranian, forerunner of British Petroleum) held the Iranian oil concession. But Washington nixed Prime Minister Clement Atlee's plans for military intervention to take back Anglo-Iranian's refineries. The United States got involved in toppling Mossadegh by covert means only when efforts to work out a diplomatic solution had gotten nowhere, and it appeared that "Mossy's" chaotic rule might provide an opening for Tudeh, as the Iranian Communist party was known. The combined CIA-MI6 operation (code-named Ajax, and run by Kermit Roosevelt) wouldn't have worked had it not been for declining popular support for Mossadegh and a resurgence of backing for the shah, who, under Iran's constitution, was well within his rights to sack his prime minister.
But the return of Muhammad Reza Shah Pahlavi to real power did not result in the privatization of the Iranian oil industry. The shah did sign a contract with a multinational consortium of oil companies (including Anglo-Iranian) to manage Iran's production, but his government retained ownership. As Daniel Yergin recounts in his invaluable history "The Prize," this helped establish the principle that oil assets would not be privately held, a principle that other states enthusiastically applied in the years ahead. By the mid-1970s, Algeria, Libya, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and Venezuela had nationalized their oil industries, usually offering the previous owners a pittance in compensation. This was not just a financial loss for the West; it turned into a major strategic problem, for it created the "oil weapon" that OPEC wielded with great gusto.
In 1973 the Arab members of OPEC announced an embargo on oil shipments to the United States and the Netherlands to punish America for its support of Israel. This produced an immediate shock in America, with lines snaking around the block at many gas stations--when gas was available at all. Two ironies made this especially humiliating: The Gulf states were cutting off oil shipments to the U.S. Navy, which protected them; and the embargo had to be carried out by American companies, which still ran many oil fields under contract to the exporting states. Painful as it was, the selective embargo did not work very well. Oil is a fungible commodity, and America and the Netherlands were able to buy most of what they needed from other sources. Realizing that the embargo was failing, OPEC abandoned it in 1974.
But the oil cartel, led by the shah, was more successful in its attempts to ratchet up prices by ratcheting down production: Prices spiked from $3 a barrel in 1970 to a whopping $30 a barrel in 1980. As oil prices went up, the U.S. economy went down, afflicted by a horrible combination of stagnation and inflation that came to be known as "stagflation." These economic woes were exacerbated by the ham-handed U.S. government response, which under Presidents Nixon, Ford, and Carter primarily consisted of government-imposed rationing, price controls, and a "windfall profits" tax that interfered with the functioning of the market. But there was no question that the primary culprits were to be found around a meeting table in Vienna. OPEC held the Western economy hostage.
Rather pitifully, Washington pleaded with its friends in the region to exert their influence to bring down prices, but the Twin Pillars, the Saudi king and the shah, usually turned a deaf ear to American entreaties. "There are some people who thought--and perhaps some who still think--that I am a toy in the Americans' hands," the shah said in 1975. "Why would I accept to be a toy? There are reasons for our power which will make us stronger, so why would we be content to be someone else's catspaw?" Odd talk coming from a man whose survival--like that of the Saudi royal family--depended, in the final instance, on American military protection. But the shah and the Saudis were more eager to appease nationalist and Islamic radicals who called for a united Arab front against the "Zionist oppressors" and "Western imperialists." The cost of crossing the extremists was too great; the Saudis got a taste of what they could expect when, in the spring of 1973, terrorists attacked one of their refineries and pipelines. The royal family decided to buy off the extremists, even if it meant offending Washington. But then they did not especially fear the wrath of the Americans. They figured--rightly, as it turned out--that the United States would do little to undermine their governments because it feared that the alternative, whether Nasserite or fundamentalist, would be worse.
Just as the OPEC potentates expected, the United States submitted supinely to economic blackmail. The U.S. government made no attempt to take back by force the oil fields confiscated by various Middle Eastern despots. Washington did not even try to prosecute OPEC for blatant violations of antitrust law, as it has done with other overseas cartels such as De Beers. Doing so might have required legislation to lift the "sovereign immunity" provision that protects foreign governments, under most circumstances, from being sued in U.S. courts. This would have been perfectly possible for Congress to do--if any administration had pushed for such legislation. But none did. Numerous bills to allow OPEC to be sued have died in Congress, the most recent being legislation sponsored in 2001 by Rep. Ben Gilman. The result is that De Beers executives are afraid to visit the United States for fear of being arrested or served with legal papers. But OPEC sheikhs, who rig the price of a commodity far more important than diamonds, are able to come to the United States whenever they desire access to physicians, chefs, or prostitutes superior to those available in the Arab world. They also feel free to keep vast amounts of money in the U.S. financial system without fear of having their assets frozen.
By the 1980s, the oil crisis had passed, having inflicted great damage on the economies of the West. Saudi Arabia, with the largest oil reserves in the world, earned Washington's gratitude for moderating prices, much as a local Mafia boss might earn the gratitude of a bodega owner whose shop he refrained from destroying. But the Saudi pressure on fellow OPEC states not to raise prices too high, while presented to credulous Washington policymakers as a great favor to America, was in reality self-serving: Riyadh was afraid that if it priced its oil out of the market the result would be a slackening of demand and the development of alternative energy sources. That is precisely what happened during the 1970s oil crisis, which made it profitable for Britain and Norway to extract high-cost oil from the North Sea.
Generations of Washington policymakers have fooled themselves into thinking that Saudi oil revenues could be directed for friendly purposes. This illusion was easy to sustain in the 1980s when the Saudis, for their own theological purposes, bankrolled anti-Soviet mujahedeen in Afghanistan. Again, this was presented by Riyadh as a great favor to Washington, but was actually in the Saudis' interest, since it was designed to court favor with Islamic extremists both at home and abroad. Since September 11, 2001, it has become obvious that significant sums in petrodollars have gone to fund virulently anti-Western madrassas around the world or have found their way into the pockets of outright terrorists like Osama bin Laden, himself a Saudi. This places OPEC's activities--previously seen merely as greed run amok--in a rather more sinister light. The Saudis and the rest weren't just out to make a buck; they were also out, like Nasser before them, to assert Arab and Islamic power at the expense of the West. And successive American administrations--obsessed, understandably, with the Soviet threat--did little to stop them.
The Mullahs
BY THE LATE 1970s, Nasserite pan-Arabism was a spent force; Anwar Sadat, Nasser's successor, conceded as much by reaching a peace agreement with Israel. But there now arose a new and even more virulent threat to the United States in the form of Islamism, a violent creed that blended elements of fundamentalist Islam with a power-centered ideology inspired by fascism and communism. The catalyst for its rise was the 1979 Iranian revolution which overthrew America's great friend, the shah. The Carter administration did little to help the shah, hoping thereby to woo support among the revolutionaries. But the hard-liners effectively foreclosed this possibility on November 4, 1979, when they invaded the U.S. embassy in Tehran.
Seventy-nine years earlier, when hordes of fanatical Boxers had invaded the Legation Quarter in Peking, America, Japan, and the leading nations of Europe had dispatched a large expeditionary force to march on the Chinese capital and liberate the besieged diplomats. But Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini had no fear of an American army marching on Tehran. "Our youth should be confident that America cannot do a damn thing," he told his followers three days after the embassy takeover. "America is far too impotent to interfere in a military way here. If they could have interfered, they would have retained the shah."
The ayatollah was right. Jimmy Carter contented himself with imposing ineffectual diplomatic and economic sanctions. Only after nearly five months of "America held hostage" did Carter attempt a rescue mission, and the pathetic Eagle Claw expedition had to be aborted on April25, 1980, after two aircraft collided at a rendezvous point code-named Desert One. The president rejected suggestions to invade Iran, or at the very least, bombard or capture its oil facilities and other important targets. This, it was feared, would lead to the hostages' being killed.
Carter's gambit paid off to the extent that all 52 hostages were released alive. But by showing such restraint, Carter ensured that many more Americans would be kidnapped and killed in the future.
Years later, one of the embassy guards, former Marine Sgt. Rodney Sickmann, regretted that he'd been ordered not to fire so much as a tear gas canister at the embassy invaders. "Had we opened fire on them maybe we would only have lasted an hour," he told the New York Times in 2002. But "we could have changed history" by showing that Americans could not be attacked with impunity. Instead the embassy surrender showed that Americans were easy targets. "If you look back, it started in 1979; it's just escalated," Sickmann says.
The escalation occurred first in Saudi Arabia and Egypt. In 1979 Islamist radicals briefly seized the Grand Mosque in Mecca, and in 1981 they assassinated Anwar Sadat. The Levant soon became a major focus of their operations.
In the late 1970s and early 1980s, the Palestine Liberation Organization--a secular organization but one that often cooperated with Islamist groups--used southern Lebanon as a base from which to attack Israel. Israel responded by invading Lebanon in 1982, putting the PLO fighters on the run and trapping them in Beirut. At this point, the United States, as so often in the past, intervened to prevent Israel from winning a complete victory against its sworn enemies. President Reagan pressured Prime Minister Menachem Begin to rein in his troops and let Yasser Arafat and his followers leave Lebanon, preserving them to fight another day. To supervise the evacuation of 8,000 Fatah fighters, the United States, along with France and Italy, landed a small peacekeeping force in Beirut. Though this force was soon evacuated, the three countries decided to send a larger force back after the massacre at the Sabra and Shatila refugee camps to help the Lebanese government restore some semblance of control over a country torn by civil war. Unfortunately this only increased the number of targets available for Iranian-backed Islamists who were openly waging war on the Great Satan.
The death toll mounted fast. On April 18, 1983, a Shiite suicide bomber struck the U.S. embassy in Beirut, killing 63 people, 17 Americans among them, including both the CIA station chief and his deputy. On October 23 of that year, another Shiite suicide bomber hit the U.S. Marine barracks in Beirut, killing 241 soldiers. In the face of this attack, the Reagan administration revealed itself to be no more muscular than its Democratic predecessor had been. After the battleship New Jersey hurled a few Volkswagen-sized shells into the hills above Beirut, President Reagan announced that the remaining Marines would be "redeployed" to ships offshore. This sent a loud and clear message to America's enemies: The Americans are weak. Kill a few of them, and you can chase them out of your country.
The image of American impotence was reinforced by the continuing hostage crisis in Lebanon. Having learned in 1979 that taking American hostages pays, the Iranians decided to turn this into a major business. With the complicity of Syria, the Iranians directed their Hezbollah proxies to kidnap and kill a steady stream of Westerners. Among those seized and murdered were William Buckley, the new CIA station chief in Beirut, and Marine Colonel William Higgins, chief of a U.N. peacekeeping force.
It did not require Hercule Poirot to see Iranian fingerprints all over these operations. Many of the kidnap victims were held at the Sheik Abdallah Barracks in the Lebanese town of Baalbek, which had been taken over as a base of operations by uniformed members of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps, the Pasdaran. One of the early hostages--David Dodge, acting president of the American University Beirut, who was abducted on July 19, 1982--was transported first to Damascus, and then, from there, to Tehran via Iran Air. He was held in the Iranian capital for six months before being released. None of this was a secret at the time; Robert Baer, a former CIA case officer, recounts in his gripping memoir, "See No Evil," how in October 1984 he visited Baalbek and even saw the barracks where he suspected (rightly, as it turned out) that Buckley and five other Westerners were imprisoned.
Washington's ineffectual response in the face of this aggression boggles the mind. The Reagan administration did briefly bomb Libya in 1986, in response to an attack on a Berlin disco, but these pinprick airstrikes only enraged Muammar Qaddafi, whose agents, in retaliation, destroyed Pan Am flight 103 in 1988, killing 270 people. More significantly, the Reagan administration did not punish Damascus or Tehran, which were bigger sponsors of anti-American terrorism than Tripoli. It did not even dispatch Delta Force to Baalbek to free the captives and kill their kidnappers. Instead it provided the Iranian mullahs with arms in exchange for hostages, making a mockery of America's traditional policy of not dealing with terrorists. This policy was not even very successful on its face: Repeated American deliveries of thousands of missiles induced Iran to release just three hostages.
Saddam
AMERICA was an equal opportunity appeaser. While trying to buy off Iran, it was also backing Iran's mortal enemy, Iraq, during their war in the 1980s. This was a justifiable realpolitik policy designed to forestall Iranian domination of the Persian Gulf, and included a limited war to protect Kuwaiti tankers from Iranian attacks in 1987-88. As part of this "tanker war," the USS Vincennes shot down an Iranian passenger airliner on July 3, 1988. It was an accident, but conspiracy-minded Iranians thought it a deliberate expression of a new get-tough approach by that cowboy Ronald Reagan. Within a month, Tehran had concluded a cease-fire with Iraq--an odd testament to the far-reaching results that even the inadvertent and misguided flexing of American muscle could achieve in the Middle East.
Unfortunately, America continued catering to Saddam Hussein even after the Iran-Iraq War was over. On July 25, 1990, U.S. Ambassador April Glaspie had an infamous meeting with Saddam in which she informed the Iraqi dictator that the United States had "no opinion on Arab-Arab conflicts, like your border disagreement with Kuwait." Saddam took this as a green light for his invasion of his tiny neighbor, which began a week later. It turned out that his expectation of American acquiescence--based not only on his conversation with Glaspie but also on his reading of events of the previous three decades, going all the way back to Suez in 1956--was not justified. President Bush, with a prompt from Margaret Thatcher, mobilized an impressive coalition to kick Iraq out of Kuwait. Desert Storm turned into one of the most one-sided wars in history.
It was America's shining hour--a victory that might have erased years of failure in the Middle East. Except that Bush refused to follow the logic of military victory to its natural political outcome; he ended the ground war after just 100 hours, while the Republican Guard remained intact and Saddam remained in power. In the cease-fire that followed, General Norman Schwarzkopf unwisely allowed Saddam's forces to fly helicopters over the parts of Iraq they still controlled. Those helicopters helped Saddam slaughter Shiites and Kurds who had risen up against his rule--at American instigation--in great numbers. American prestige instantly plummeted from the heights it had attained just a few weeks before. And no wonder. Here was the mighty American army sitting idle, while nearby rivers ran red with the blood of their allies.
This inaction in the face of Saddam's provocations would be repeated time and again in the 1990s. Saddam plotted to kill George H.W. Bush in 1993; in retaliation, President Clinton unleashed America's full wrath . . . to flatten an empty intelligence headquarters. The U.S. government hatched a plot to overthrow Saddam in 1995, only to pull out at the last minute, and leave its Kurdish friends to either cut deals with the dictator, flee, or be killed. Saddam stopped cooperating with U.N. weapons inspectors in 1998; in response, the United States and Britain bombed Iraq for all of four days. None of this made an appreciable dent in Saddam's dictatorship. This failure suggested to conspiracy-minded Middle Easterners either that the United States secretly wanted to maintain Saddam in power for some nefarious purpose, or that it feared the Iraqi dictator. Either way, the vacillating U.S. policy on Iraq signaled a fatal lack of seriousness on America's part.
Al Qaeda
THIS IMPRESSION was reinforced in the 1990s by America's failure to take stern steps against the terrorists who waged war against it. Continuing a campaign that began in 1979, Islamist operatives bombed the World Trade Center in 1993, two U.S. embassies in Africa in 1998, and the USS Cole in 2000. Hezbollah attacked a Saudi National Guard facility in Riyadh in 1995, killing five Americans, and the Khobar Towers barracks in 1996, killing 19 Americans. Al Qaeda also claimed credit for working with local tribesmen to kill 18 American soldiers in Mogadishu in 1993, driving U.S. forces out of Somalia. Daniel Pipes estimates that even before the costliest terrorist strike in history occurred on September 11, 2001, Islamist violence directed at Americans had killed 800 people--"more than killed by any other enemy since the Vietnam War."
Yet, as Pipes notes, "these murders hardly registered." Successive administrations, Republican and Democratic alike, treated them not as an ongoing war but as a matter for the criminal justice system. Bob Woodward's new book, "Bush at War," reveals that during the Clinton administration, a group of Afghan agents hired by the CIA to shadow Osama bin Laden offered to kill the al Qaeda leader. The agency refused to authorize the mission, because it would have violated the executive ban on assassinations.
Such unwarranted restraint demoralized America's friends in the region and emboldened our enemies. Looking at how America was chased out of Vietnam, Lebanon, and Somalia, bin Laden and his minions thought they saw an explanation for America's inaction: The United States was too weak and decadent to resist the jihadists. "We no longer fear the so-called Great Powers," bin Laden proclaimed in a 2000 recruitment video for al Qaeda.
We believe that America is much weaker than Russia; and our brothers who fought in Somalia told us they were astonished to observe how weak, impotent and cowardly the American soldier is. As soon as eighty [sic] American troops were killed, they fled in the dark as fast as they could, after making a great noise about the new international order. America's nightmares in Vietnam and Lebanon will pale by comparison with the forthcoming victory in al-Hijaz.
Presumably the campaign in Afghanistan disabused al Qaeda of some of these illusions--but not all. The toppling of the Taliban was a good start, but only a start. A bigger test now awaits us in Iraq. America's "friends" in the region fear that American troops will march on Baghdad and install a democratic government, something that would undermine their own grip on power. They couch this fear in the language of "stability"--toppling Saddam, they counsel, would foster "instability" in the region. This is actually the best reason to liberate Iraq. The "stability" of the region produced September 11. There is no guarantee what will come out of post-invasion "instability," but if the United States remains a strong player in the region, it should be considerably better than the status quo antebellum.
Beyond Iraq loom other challenges--especially Syria and Iran, which have been waging undeclared war on the United States for 20 years, but also Saudi Arabia, which has abetted this war even as it has benefited from American protection. It is possible that a U.S. victory in Iraq will intimidate these regimes into better behavior. If not, the United States will have to take more vigorous steps to align our relationships with these countries with our interests and principles. This is a major undertaking, and the necessity for it might have been averted by wiser action years ago, but the long record of U.S. futility in the Middle East now presents us with this defining task.
Contributing editor Max Boot is an Olin senior fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations and the author of "The Savage Wars of Peace: Small Wars and the Rise of American Power."
#652
Posted 02 April 2003 - 05:07 AM
I read the article the first time and didn't agree then either.
Edited by Lazarus Long, 02 April 2003 - 05:09 AM.
#653
Posted 02 April 2003 - 06:35 AM
I have already commented on the Arrogant Empire article.
An additional point I would like to make is that world opinion is over rated.
World opinion should not alter our foreign policy decision making process. National interests are national interests, not world interests.
#654
Posted 02 April 2003 - 06:39 AM
hehe [ph34r]
#655
Posted 02 April 2003 - 06:49 AM
it is consistent with us attempting a global takeover of markets, shipping, and sole autocratic determiner of security and police privilege.
Damn straight.
We are attempting to circumvent a process of legitimizing global law and instead are trying to claim a supreme voice on all global security matters that confront the Earth and frankly most countries object, most people object, and most governments, including OUR ALLIES find the approach and implications of the precedent horrendous.
So basically you are saying we can't go to war unless our allies let us? I really don't care that the countries that objected did so. It simply illuminates where the fault lines lie.
I heard today that Pakistan's arsenal is "conservatively" estimated at over 50 deliverable nuclear warheads already primed and loaded on ICBM's. A popular islamic revolt at the polls would mean that we are forced to prop up Mushariff as the military dictator we helped install in the first place. India is already accusing us of supporting terrorism for our support of Pakistan its support of forces in the Kashmir.
So what would you do about Pakistan? More importantly, what would you do to combat Arab extremism?
Edited by Kissinger, 02 April 2003 - 06:51 AM.
#656
Posted 02 April 2003 - 01:36 PM
Since this is a political albatross the administration will not wear until AFTER it wins the next election. I suspect we are going to spread our forces thin, dig in, and begin leaving our battleforts occassionally unsupported until we can we re-supply them. You are happy to create a fault line between US and most of the world?
Our enemies are about to unite, alter the battle plan to meet their objectives and test our ability to respond on multiple fronts. Oh, I am sure we will and all of this was basically unnecessary, except to force the American Public to become an accessory to a crime as obvious to the world as the German Public's abandonment of Democratic Principle when they voted for Hitler to be Chancellor and strongman, thus destroying their Republic.
We could however still demonstrate a respect for the principles we claim are our true motives. Of course I don't believe that principle is the true motive of the Neohawks and New Age Imperialists so I expect this process to inexorably continue to deteriorate into a fullfledged Global war over the next decade. I expect NATO to also become collateral damage along with free flowing trade.
As for stopping Fundamentalist extremism, that is a domestic threat as well as a foreign one and the reason al Qaeda wanted us to do basically what we are doing is that we were actually making inroads on that front too, through the marketplace and education. We are describing a process that demands the winning of hearts over a period of generations. Impatience at this time is more likely to produce chaos and destruction then resolution and reform.
Of course I assume that the Neohawks actually do want to solve the problem and not just rely on Ultra Violence to serve their purpose through a plausibly deniable genocide. It is truly ironic that the goal of destabilizing, reorganizing and unifying the regional states into a single entity is one shared by both poles of extremist doctrine in this conflict.
The development of a true middle class, educated and recipient of the benefits of such civil behavior is the greatest threat to ALL religious fundamental extremism everywhere on Earth. So how do we achieve that?
You know the answer as well as I , and that is why the assault is first of all upon the very institutions that are, for all their faults and inadequacies, the very best methods for resolving global concerns.
What the neohawks are truly afraid of is that the process WAS working. We invaded BECAUSE we didn't want to let UN solve the crisis, we didn't want inspectors to actually get the job done, hell we didn't even give our own intelligence services a chance to fulfill their missions and gather better data as to the real 10/20 of the WMD stockpiles, and upper echelon command cadres. The singlemindedness to make Saddam an object example is backfiring, because it is demonstrating to the entire world the example that we are a threat they must now confront, rather than negotiate with.
This war is a fools errand.
#657
Posted 02 April 2003 - 02:01 PM
Most Americans want UN to run Iraq
James Politi in Washington
Published: March 31 2003 19:37 | Last Updated: March 31 2003 19:37
While Americans are still overwhelmingly supportive of President George W.Bush's decision to got to war with Iraq, a new poll suggests that they do not believe the United Nations should now be considered irrelevant because of its refusal to endorse military action.
A poll released on Monday by the University of Maryland's Program on International Policy Attitudes suggested that 52 per cent of Americans believe the UN should be in charge of governing post-war Iraq, while only 30 believed the US should do it.
The US has long insisted that the UN's role in post-war Iraq should be "important" but confined to humanitarian aid, with little or no political authority.
In addition, the poll - taken over the first weekend of the war, between March 22 and March 25 - suggested Americans would prefer that any future military action undertaken by their government be sanctioned by the UN security council.
According to the poll, 66 per cent of respondents said the US "should not feel more free to use force without UN authorisation", while 29 per cent believe they should. "The public is not viewing the decision to go to war with Iraq as a watershed that signifies the declining importance of the UN or as a precedent for the US to feel more free to use military force without UN approval," said Steven Kull, director of PIPA.
For example, in dealing with North Korea's bid to acquire nuclear weapons, 72 per cent of Americans said the UN should take the lead, while only 26 per cent chose the US.
But this does not diminish the support president George W. Bush is receiving for his decision to go to war with Iraq in the first place.
An overwhelming 75 per cent of Americans expressed support for his decision in what Mr Kull says is a fairly typical "rally around the flag" phenomenon.
Although Americans' support for the war has been ebbing and flowing with the conflicting news on the campaign's progress, Mr Kull said it was unlikely to drop significantly in the short term if casualties mounted. "The public has gone into this war with sober expectations," he said, pointing to a poll conducted earlier this year in which Americans said they expected a war with Iraq to last some 6 months and result in 1,000 US casualties.
This will be comforting to Bush administration officials, who this week have been attempting to deflect criticism that they failed to prepare the US public for a long drawn-out conflict. For the most part, Americans have accepted their government's claims that Iraq possesses weapons of mass destruction and was rapidly becoming a threat to national security.
"Assuming the US finds evidence of weapons of mass destruction this should further consolidate the view that the purpose of the operation is valid," Mr Kull said.
#658
Posted 02 April 2003 - 05:07 PM
Did the American government have such sympathy for the people of South Africa when they supported apartheid for decades and only relented after the American People at home rebelled against federal spending policy and imposed a popular boycott of their trade goods at the State and local Governmental levels?
Again Lazarus...you are using past injustices to negate the reasons for doing the right thing now.
To clarify, just because the U.S. has done bad things in the past doesn't mean it should not be doing the right thing now.
I asked Saille if people there are concerned about the torture and mass executions that have occurred in Iraq because here in the U.S. there are many thousands of Iraqi dissidents with horror stories. I do not know if this information has gotten out to other countries of the world as much, because a lot of the world media is slanted against the U.S.
Also, you keep assuming that past evils committed by the U.S. are going to repeat in the future. You are wrong. Do you forget how much more the world is connected nowadays? It was much easier in the past for the U.S. government (and all governments for that matter) to keep their populations "in the dark" about things going on in other parts of the world. That was the past. It is a different age now. An age of information. An age of great change. A different world is going to emerge and I would rather have free countries leading the way. Wouldn't you?
#659
Posted 02 April 2003 - 08:43 PM
Assassination in war and peace.
Rich Lowery
After Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait in 1990, President Bush signed a secret finding authorizing the CIA to attempt to overthrow the Iraqi dictator. Bob Woodward reports in his book The Commanders that "the CIA was not to violate the ban on involvement in assassination attempts, but rather recruit Iraqi dissidents to remove Saddam from power." In other words, according to the strict letter of the finding, Saddam was to be ousted not "dead or alive," but only alive — at least as far as the CIA had any control over it.
Around the same time, defense secretary Dick Cheney fired Air Force chief of staff Michael J. Dugan for telling reporters that the U.S. wanted to "decapitate" the Iraqi regime by killing Saddam and his family. Dugan was sacked not just for revealing operational details, Cheney explained, but also for speaking favorably about a policy that might violate the ban on assassinations. "We never talk about the targeting of specific individuals who are officials of other governments," Cheney said.
Why this tender concern for Saddam Hussein's well-being? It was part of a hangover from the implosion of America's moral self-confidence that occurred in the 1970s, in the wake of Vietnam and the Church committee's battering of the CIA as a hapless, dirty-tricks operation. The Ford administration, bowing to congressional pressure, rushed to issue an executive order banning assassination. During the Gulf War, the first Bush administration didn't let its regard for the Ford order actually stop it from bombing Saddam's personal compounds, but it pretended not to have entertained the idea of specifically killing him.
This garble reflects a lack of exactly the sort of clarity that the war on terrorism demands: Killing enemy belligerents, even if they are heads of state, is a lawful and moral application of American power. The Ford order on assassinations — reissued by Reagan as Executive Order 12333 — should either be amended, or at the very least publicly reinterpreted, so there is no longer any confusion on this point. It is the right of the U.S. to target and kill individuals in the chain of command of a country with which we are formally, or as a practical matter, at war.
The upshot of the Church committee's work in 1975 was that after 30 years of the twilight struggle, the United States should get out of the twilight business. The Cold War consensus had been based on the idea that our enemy was evil and ruthless, and therefore we would have to employ rough means to defeat it (as a commission headed by Herbert Hoover put it starkly in 1954, "hitherto acceptable norms of human conduct do not apply").
The Church committee was devoted to the proposition that engaging in such nasty business made us no better — actually, somehow much worse — than the Soviets. "The committee was struck," said the Church report, "by the basic tension — if not incompatibility — of covert operations and the demands of the constitutional system." The U.S. should worry more about its virtue and less about power politics. "We need not be so frightened by each Russian intervention," Sen. Church said. "We have gained little, and lost a great deal, by our past policy of compulsive interventionism."
From this aloof perspective on world affairs, the committee concluded that "assassination is unacceptable in our society." Period. It dredged up stories of far-fetched attempts to off Fidel Castro — poisoned cigars, poisoned diving suits — that made assassination seem a risible exercise (as if the fact that we were bad at assassination proved that we should never do it). It also focused on shadowy U.S. involvement in the killings in the 1950s and 1960s of Patrice Lumumba in Congo, Rafael Trujillo in the Dominican Republic, and Ngo Dinh Diem in Vietnam.
The committee had a point. There were questions about whether the CIA was operating with the necessary democratic accountability in the U.S., and these killings took place over what essentially amounted to peacetime political preferences (although peacetime was difficult to define in the Cold War, since the Soviets envisioned it as just another opportunity to wage war). So, these acts were more properly thought of as unlawful assassinations rather than legitimate wartime killings.
In judging such killings, as former Reagan and Bush official David Rivkin points out, this is really the crucial distinction: between peace and war. From the Romans to the U.N. Charter, international law has recognized certain "protected persons" — heads of state, diplomats — who can't be killed by a foreign power in peacetime. But, as Rivkin says, "war changes everything." There is a right under international law to target an enemy's command and control during wartime, including anyone in the chain of command right up to the head of state (especially when, as in the case of Saddam, he wears a uniform and a sidearm).
Why, then, does such an odor still attach to targeting specific individuals in wartime? It is partly a leftover from 18th- and 19th-century rules of warfare, when battle was essentially an interruption of otherwise correct relations between fellow sovereigns. As Notre Dame law professor Gerard V. Bradley points out, it wouldn't have occurred to the French, for instance, to try to kill William Pitt. It just wasn't done. But this all changed with the advent of total war, and of leaders, such as Hitler, unfit for the chummy "community of nations."
In June 1943, the Germans shot down what they took to be Churchill's plane. Two months before, the Americans had shot down Adm. Yamamoto's plane, after an intelligence intercept revealed that he would be inspecting front-line Japanese bases. Adm. Nimitz carefully considered whether any of Yamamoto's possible replacements would be worse — i.e., more talented or better liked by Japanese troops — and, after concluding they wouldn't, ordered the attack. No one at the time complained that this act was incompatible with American values.
The hesitation to endorse such targeted killings today — when we are a century and several million deaths beyond the age of international chivalry — involves a misunderstanding of what exactly is proscribed by international law. According to Article 23b of the Hague Convention, "It is especially forbidden to kill or wound treacherously individuals belonging to the hostile nation or army." This is not, however, a prohibition on all targeted killings. Instead, for a killing to be considered an unlawful assassination, it has to use treacherous means.
Treachery is an extremely narrow concept. In current practice, we seem, oddly, to interpret it as anything that would be too precise or sneaky. So, killing Saddam Hussein with a barrage of guided bombs, as long as we are not too frank about whether his death is intended or not, is acceptable (not treacherous), but killing him with one cruise missile aimed right at his bedroom, or, even worse, shooting him with a sniper team or setting a booby trap in front of his motorcade, is forbidden (treacherous). This from-15,000-feet rule is as irrational as it sounds.
In fact, any method that is lawful for attacking an enemy army is also lawful as a way of killing an enemy leader. The use of perfidious means to take advantage of a target's trust — such as disguising a U.S. hit team as U.N. negotiators — is forbidden. (Bin Laden's use of assassins posing as journalists to kill Northern Alliance leader Ahmed Massoud last year is a classic case of perfidy.) Otherwise, there is nothing that says targeted killings must take place from the air. As the U.S. Army Memorandum of Law puts it, "No distinction is made between an attack accomplished by aircraft, missile, naval gunfire, artillery, mortar, infantry assault, ambush . . . booby trap, a single shot by a sniper, a commando attack, or other similar means."
International law aside, the morality of targeted wartime killings, when compared with other possible policies, seems obvious. Such killings are clearly superior to the Left's preferred non-violent means of trying to oust dictators: economic sanctions. Such embargoes almost always punish the innocent (civilians of the targeted country) and sometimes even strengthen the guilty (the dictators who are able to play the besieged victim). In Iraq, sanctions have — if anything — helped impoverish the civilian population, without budging Saddam a bit.
Targeted killing can also be morally superior to waging all-out war. One of the reasons the Geneva Convention protects POWs is that soldiers are held blameless for state policies that they were presumably merely following, not creating. So, it's odd to consider it unacceptable to kill Saddam, but acceptable to kill thousands of his soldiers who may want nothing more fervently than to surrender to the nearest American. Indeed, the idea of proportionality in the law of war suggests that the means able to achieve an objective with the least destruction and killing — e.g., specifically targeting Saddam — is always to be preferred.
Critics of targeted killings still raise several practical objections to the idea. One is that it would prompt retaliation against U.S. leaders. But Saddam Hussein has already tried to kill an ex-U.S. president, Bush I in Kuwait City, even with EO12333 still in force. And Osama bin Laden launched a hijacked airplane perhaps against the White House or the U.S. Capitol. The behavior of our enemies obviously isn't going to be positively influenced by our nice legalisms. In any case, the American president is now, and always will be, surrounded by the most sophisticated and tightest security in the world, executive order or no.
Another objection is that targeted killings simply don't make for good foreign policy. They fail and backfire. Even if they succeed, the resulting new regime can be hard to predict and control. All of this is true, and if we want to influence the course of a post-Saddam Iraq, an invasion six months from now may be preferable to killing Saddam tomorrow. But this doesn't mean that targeted killing shouldn't be an option. And, in the case of Iraq, an incipient invasion (giving us a military presence to control events on the ground) coupled with the killing of Saddam (to end the fighting quickly) may be the ideal scenario.
In the end, critics of the idea of targeted killings fall back on the assertion that it is somehow incompatible with American values. This is just Frank Churchism, a moral equivalence that condemns us for trying to kill first the people who are bent on killing us. It finds it intolerable that we might engage in any difficult or severe action in the course of defeating our mortal enemies, and perversely revels in any mistake, folly, or transgression we might commit along the way. It is this sensibility that splashes every American error in Afghanistan across the front pages, with the revelatory subtext that — aha! — we aren't so right and just after all.
Sept. 11 has helped diminish, but not vanquish, this way of thinking. The Clinton administration initially wanted to try Osama bin Laden, then attempted to kill him by arguing that he was, in effect, a piece of terrorist "infrastructure" to be "degraded." The Bush administration has taken a leap ahead in clarity by frankly stating that Osama bin Laden is a person, just an evil one who deserves to be sent to his eternal reward as quickly as possible. As a terrorist bandit, bin Laden enjoys the protection of no international conventions against assassination or anything else. The same should go for Saddam Hussein, and other leaders in the future against whom we wage war.
For practical purposes, the ban on assassinations has recently eroded. The U.S. has over the last 15 years slyly targeted Qaddafi, Saddam, Milosevic, and now Mullah Omar. But we should stop operating under the constraints of the Qaddafi rule, which holds essentially that if an attack on a leader is so imprecise that it might kill his friends and family, it's okay. The cleanest solution would be to add a definition of assassination to the executive order, making it clear that it doesn't forbid targeting a regime's military elite. This might offend the sensibilities of rogue-state leaders the world over, but so what?
"Rogue state" isn't just an idle phrase. It signifies a government that is operating outside of all civilized bounds. The U.S. now seems to be willing, not just to recognize this fact rhetorically, but to act on it with a policy of regime-change — which makes it very odd that we would insist on maintaining the polite norms of long ago, when every sovereign was a sort of brother. Saddam Hussein is a far cry from William Pitt. It is time we stop pretending otherwise.
Edited by Kissinger, 02 April 2003 - 08:44 PM.
#660
Posted 02 April 2003 - 11:39 PM
CABLE NEWS RACE
TUESDAY, APRIL 1
#1 SHEP SMITH 5.5 [RATING]
#2 O'REILLY 5.2
#3 HANNITY/COLMES 5.0
#4 GRETA 4.1
#5 LARRY KING 3.8
#6 BRIT HUME 3.7
#7 CNN 8 PM 3.2
#8 AARON BROWN 3.2
#9 MTV REAL WORLD 3.2
#10 MSNBC 8 PM 2.0
#11 MSNBC OLBERMANN 1.6
#12 MSNBC 10 PM 1.6
More proof that the serious, and disproportionately influential, students of politics and world affairs favor the conservative perspective.
Edited by Kissinger, 02 April 2003 - 11:44 PM.
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