579 replies to this topic

[Eva Victoria]

Sorry I'm sticking to what most everyone else is saying.

Ditto

Eva Vic. you wrote I would also like to add: I don't make the rules. In my personal opinion sunscreens should be allowed to have more concentration of the actives, hence less amount per application would be sufficient enough.

Seconded.

I'll take you at your word that you apply s/s at the rate of one(1) teaspooon(tsp) = 5 mL to the face area only. And that you reapply this every two(2) hours or so. My hat (large brimmed and not-so-floppy) is off to you.

What cleanser do you use to remove this?

Best, Mia

I actually use La Roche Posay: Lipicar Syndet (cream gel for sensitive skin). It has no fragrance and very mild. I also use a glycolic acid containing face wash afterward (I made it myself).

I would like to add that this morning I tried to apply less sunscreen to my skin than 1 tsp and I did not managed. It simply did not cover my whole face since it was absorbed very quickly. I used a commercial formula from Avene: Emulsion SPF 50+.

I would rather recommend using the amount one has got accustomed to and apply it twice after each other in 10-20 min time.

[Mia K.]

Sorry I'm sticking to what most everyone else is saying.

Ditto

Eva Vic. you wrote I would also like to add: I don't make the rules. In my personal opinion sunscreens should be allowed to have more concentration of the actives, hence less amount per application would be sufficient enough.

Seconded.

I'll take you at your word that you apply s/s at the rate of one(1) teaspooon(tsp) = 5 mL to the face area only. And that you reapply this every two(2) hours or so. My hat (large brimmed and not-so-floppy) is off to you.

What cleanser do you use to remove this?



Best, Mia

I actually use La Roche Posay: Lipicar Syndet (cream gel for sensitive skin). It has no fragrance and very mild. I also use a glycolic acid containing face wash afterward (I made it myself).

I would like to add that this morning I tried to apply less sunscreen to my skin than 1 tsp and I did not managed. It simply did not cover my whole face since it was absorbed very quickly. I used a commercial formula from Avene: Emulsion SPF 50+.

I would rather recommend using the amount one has got accustomed to and apply it twice after each other in 10-20 min time.

Thanks for your response, Eva.  I'll look into that cleanser. 


And yes, the layering method for s/s that you and Fredrik suggest makes it easier to apply the recommended amount (whether 1/4 or 1 tsp).

UV index here in my world today = 12+

Cheers, Mia 

[immortali457]

Eva I remember you saying you were using Malus Domestica in your vitamin C serum. Do you still think it is a worthy ingredient? Is 1% what you still recommend? What about a higher percentage? Thanks


http://www.lotioncra...ll-extract.html

[immortali457]

Eva...I saw this piece about apple stem cells. It looks a little too good to be true. That's an understatement...lol
What is your opinion on this???? My shipment from lotioncrafter is here and I put about 4% in my DIY serum.

http://www.stemcellf...cellincream.htm

[Eva Victoria]

Eva...I saw this piece about apple stem cells. It looks a little too good to be true. That's an understatement...lol
What is your opinion on this???? My shipment from lotioncrafter is here and I put about 4% in my DIY serum.

http://www.stemcellf...cellincream.htm

I still believe that Malus Domestica is a fantastic ingredient. However, I have never seen these pictures that are on this site you sent the link to.
I have all the technical documentation from Mibelle BioChemistry (the producer of Malus Domestica) but I only found the graph and the computer generated image of the trial. And I have been through all the 9 documents the company has sent me.

[Ben]

I still believe that Malus Domestica is a fantastic ingredient. However, I have never seen these pictures that are on this site you sent the link to.
I have all the technical documentation from Mibelle BioChemistry (the producer of Malus Domestica) but I only found the graph and the computer generated image of the trial. And I have been through all the 9 documents the company has sent me.

Those pictures are amazing if they're to be believed.

[kai73]

I still believe that Malus Domestica is a fantastic ingredient. However, I have never seen these pictures that are on this site you sent the link to.
I have all the technical documentation from Mibelle BioChemistry (the producer of Malus Domestica) but I only found the graph and the computer generated image of the trial. And I have been through all the 9 documents the company has sent me.

what are the best commericial products which use Malus Domestica? and are they better than using Retin-A creams?

what is your opinion eva?

[happy lemon]

what are the best commericial products which use Malus Domestica? and are they better than using Retin-A creams?

what is your opinion eva?

In the FAQ section, it says that the effect is not permanent

http://www.stemcellf...eam.com/faq.htm

Are the results permanent?
StemCellin must be applied daily for best results. If you stop using StemCellin, deep wrinkles will begin to reappear within 1-2 weeks.

[immortali457]

In the FAQ section, it says that the effect is not permanent

http://www.stemcellf...eam.com/faq.htm

Are the results permanent?
StemCellin must be applied daily for best results. If you stop using StemCellin, deep wrinkles will begin to reappear within 1-2 weeks.

The effects of retin-a are not permanent either. Until more is known about apple stem cells, assume retin-a is still king.

Edited by immortali457, 19 July 2009 - 11:36 AM.

[VictorBjoerk]

isn't the retin-a effect permanent? I thought that your skin stayed good after you had stopped using it. I can't imagine you would get back your photodamaged skin as it was previously just because you stop retin-a.

[immortali457]

isn't the retin-a effect permanent? I thought that your skin stayed good after you had stopped using it. I can't imagine you would get back your photodamaged skin as it was previously just because you stop retin-a.

Once stopped, your skin will start aging at the rate it did brefore retin-a
Of course you dont lose all the photodamage reversing that occured while using it.

[TheFountain]

Once stopped, your skin will start aging at the rate it did brefore retin-a
Of course you dont lose all the photodamage reversing that occured while using it.

It should be noted that it would take months of repeated sun exposure to lose most of the benefits provided by the retin-a. It's not like it disappears over night (like this stemcellin stuff). But superficial harm can be done short term, like extreme redness and irritability.

Edited by TheFountain, 22 July 2009 - 11:42 PM.

[VesperLynd]

Eva,

Considering the three pronged approach to skincare: prevent, protect, repair...

I currently use the Avene Emulsion sunscreens and retinoids at night.

I have not yet settled on how to incorporate adequate and safe antioxidants into my regimen.

I have been using my own L-AA serum at 15% concentration in distilled water, made fresh and used immediately, at night only to avoid possible interaction between the unstable LAA in water and sunlight. I alternate by using this serum on one night and a retinoid the next night.

I am concerned about losing the benefits of C when combined with E and ferulic acid, but have not purchased the SkinCeuticals product due to price and the unknown factor of manufacture date/shelf life, etc.

Do you have any thoughts on making my own, more stable serum using tetrahexydecyl ascorbate and rice bran oil (with naturally occurring Vitamin E and ferulic acid)

Other suggestions for antioxidants and or improving my regimen?

Thank you, VL

[Eva Victoria]

Hi VL,

I would definitely recommend you to use the Vitamin C serum in the morning as first step after washing your face.
Follow with a moisturizer if required and a sunscreen.
In the evening Retin A (Tretinoin) should be used first and followed with a very mild PH balanced moisturizer if needed (after min. 20 min).

You could approve your Vit.C serum by 2 things: try to make it in a vehicle that will enhance its penetration so it does actually gets to your skin cells. (Dissolving it in water won't enhance its penetration and more likely to end up on the surface of the skin).
Second: use Ascorbic Acid instead of stabilized form of Vit. C. It is easier to use biologically for your cells and hence has a greater effect as well. (Not to mention it is much easier to incorporate into formulations and easier to obtain as a private person).

You can make a base for your Vit.C serum (preservative needed) and you can take out 10-15ml of it every week and add Ascorbic Acid powder to it and use it up within 7-14 days (kept in the fridge!).

Eva,

Considering the three pronged approach to skincare: prevent, protect, repair...

I currently use the Avene Emulsion sunscreens and retinoids at night.

I have not yet settled on how to incorporate adequate and safe antioxidants into my regimen.

I have been using my own L-AA serum at 15% concentration in distilled water, made fresh and used immediately, at night only to avoid possible interaction between the unstable LAA in water and sunlight. I alternate by using this serum on one night and a retinoid the next night.

I am concerned about losing the benefits of C when combined with E and ferulic acid, but have not purchased the SkinCeuticals product due to price and the unknown factor of manufacture date/shelf life, etc.

Do you have any thoughts on making my own, more stable serum using tetrahexydecyl ascorbate and rice bran oil (with naturally occurring Vitamin E and ferulic acid)

Other suggestions for antioxidants and or improving my regimen?

Thank you, VL

[Eva Victoria]

I still believe that Malus Domestica is a fantastic ingredient. However, I have never seen these pictures that are on this site you sent the link to.
I have all the technical documentation from Mibelle BioChemistry (the producer of Malus Domestica) but I only found the graph and the computer generated image of the trial. And I have been through all the 9 documents the company has sent me.

what are the best commericial products which use Malus Domestica? and are they better than using Retin-A creams?

what is your opinion eva?

The only commercially available product I know of is from Lumene (Finish brand) and am not even sure whether they sell it outside of Scandinavia.

Malus Domestica Extract is a cosmetic ingredient. Although it is very promising as a new way to skin rejuvenation, I do believe that more proven ingredients like Tretinoin (Retin A) and Vitamin C (combined with Vit.E) used religiously with a sunscreen every morning have a greater benefit for the skin on the long run.

So the bottomline is that there are no miracle ways to keep our youth forever. It is possible to elongate it, keeping your skin in great condition longer (esp. for men who have thicker skin) by the everyday use of a well formulated photostable sunscreen with high UVA protection (at least up to 380 nm). In short: just by using sunscreen containing ZnO (10-20%) will have this effect on the skin. Clearly greater than all the topicals alltogether combined when used without adequate sunprotection (even Tretinoin included).
ZnO have additionally anti-oxidant (nobody talks about it though) effect and UV stabilizing effect of other sunscreen agents and additionally it is a strong inhibitor of inflammation.

[nancyd]

Is micronized ZnO harmful to skin or less effective?

Edited by nancyd, 29 July 2009 - 10:53 PM.

[Eva Victoria]

Is micronized ZnO harmful to skin or less effective?

Micro ZnO is not harmful for the skin. It is less visible on the skin and provides greater UVB protection. If the sunscreen is correctly formulated it can achieve better UVA protection/ unit than normal size ZnO.
In todays products there is usually micronized ZnO or nano ZnO (the latter is not allowed in the EU).

[Ali]

Hi Eva,

Could you please tell me how azelaic acid increases absorption of tretinoin? im currently using 1cm of tretinoin (0.1%) per evening would including say 0.5cm of azelaic acid decrease the resulting concentration (percentage) of the tretinoin and hence reduce effectivness even though im using the same amount?

not sure if that sounds confussing or not :-P what im trying to find out is wether the addition of azelaic acid to trtinoin has a benefit or hindrance.

Thanks for any help given, and keep up the good work

[VesperLynd]

As to the how and when an ascorbic acid serum should be applied, Dr. Shultz, American derm of DermTV says:

[b][i]People have asked me time and time again which they should apply first: sunscreen or antioxidants? Little do they know that it's a trick question. Antioxidants work by first being absorbed into the skin and then by consuming the destructive energy created within your skin by the sun (instead of letting that energy destroy your cell's DNA, collagen, membranes, etcetera). However, when topical antioxidants are applied during the day, they are destroyed by the sun's ultraviolet rays before they can be absorbed by your skin. Instead, when they are applied at bedtime, they have all night to be absorbed into the skin in order to be in a position to protect it. So apply sunscreen during the day and your antioxidants at bedtime."


Also Eva, as to a vehicle for the enhance penetration of Vitamin C, what kind of vehicle would you suggest ?

I only use the oil based Vitamin C serums after dermarolling - the rest of the time I have been using the water soluble solution.

Thank you so much, VL

[immortali457]

As to the how and when an ascorbic acid serum should be applied, Dr. Shultz, American derm of DermTV says:

[b][i]People have asked me time and time again which they should apply first: sunscreen or antioxidants? Little do they know that it's a trick question. Antioxidants work by first being absorbed into the skin and then by consuming the destructive energy created within your skin by the sun (instead of letting that energy destroy your cell's DNA, collagen, membranes, etcetera). However, when topical antioxidants are applied during the day, they are destroyed by the sun's ultraviolet rays before they can be absorbed by your skin. Instead, when they are applied at bedtime, they have all night to be absorbed into the skin in order to be in a position to protect it. So apply sunscreen during the day and your antioxidants at bedtime."


Also Eva, as to a vehicle for the enhance penetration of Vitamin C, what kind of vehicle would you suggest ?

I only use the oil based Vitamin C serums after dermarolling - the rest of the time I have been using the water soluble solution.

Thank you so much, VL

How are topical antioxidants destroyed by the sun's uv rays before they can be absorbed by your skin? That's just foolish. Once it is applied in the morning and you allow say 20 minutes or so for it to absorb before applying your sunscreen/moisturizer, ect., it is absorbed PERIOD. Especially if the serum is properly formulated.
Dude if you want to believe the foolishness this TV doc. is preaching, then by all means go for it.

Edited by immortali457, 01 August 2009 - 02:03 AM.

[VesperLynd]

I generally don't buy something when I hear about it once, but now that I've heard the same thing twice (Dr. Baumann), I figure it's worth looking into since they must be drawing their conclusions from somewhere - where is the question?


VL

[VesperLynd]

and now a third, Dr. Richard Huber of 302 Skincare:

Topical antioxidants, in my infallible opinion, are a waste of time, and recent technical literature indicates orally administered antioxidants are as well. The natural chemical breakdown and skin reaction to these substances is to turn them into pro-oxidants. It is another biochemical hangover from 1980's fictions about cancer and antioxidants - all of which is now rapidly being thrown out in paper after paper - the dermatology community is always the last to get the news apparently and so we have new products everyday sprouting up touting their antioxidant properties. 40% of all tissue damage in the skin, as we age, occurs as a result of oxidation problems. But it is not the type of oxidation addressed by antioxidant chemicals. Don't get me started on this one.

VL

[immortali457]

and now a third, Dr. Richard Huber of 302 Skincare:

Topical antioxidants, in my infallible opinion, are a waste of time, and recent technical literature indicates orally administered antioxidants are as well. The natural chemical breakdown and skin reaction to these substances is to turn them into pro-oxidants. It is another biochemical hangover from 1980's fictions about cancer and antioxidants - all of which is now rapidly being thrown out in paper after paper - the dermatology community is always the last to get the news apparently and so we have new products everyday sprouting up touting their antioxidant properties. 40% of all tissue damage in the skin, as we age, occurs as a result of oxidation problems. But it is not the type of oxidation addressed by antioxidant chemicals. Don't get me started on this one.

VL

orally administered antioxidants are a waste of time as well........oh o.k....thanks

[VesperLynd]

As part of the food you eat? great....

As additional supplements? debatable

[Eva Victoria]

As to the how and when an ascorbic acid serum should be applied, Dr. Shultz, American derm of DermTV says:

[b][i]People have asked me time and time again which they should apply first: sunscreen or antioxidants? Little do they know that it's a trick question. Antioxidants work by first being absorbed into the skin and then by consuming the destructive energy created within your skin by the sun (instead of letting that energy destroy your cell's DNA, collagen, membranes, etcetera). However, when topical antioxidants are applied during the day, they are destroyed by the sun's ultraviolet rays before they can be absorbed by your skin. Instead, when they are applied at bedtime, they have all night to be absorbed into the skin in order to be in a position to protect it. So apply sunscreen during the day and your antioxidants at bedtime."


Also Eva, as to a vehicle for the enhance penetration of Vitamin C, what kind of vehicle would you suggest ?

I only use the oil based Vitamin C serums after dermarolling - the rest of the time I have been using the water soluble solution.

Thank you so much, VL

As I have suggested using Ascorbic Acid for its better bio availability for skin cells. So if you use Ascorbic Acid you should use a penetration enhancer for water soluble ingredients because Ascorbic Acid is water soluble.
This will be your own homework to find out what could be used this purpose.

Should you use a palmitic ester variant of vitamin C (which is lipofilic) then you should choose another type of penetration enhancer. Preferably an encapsulated form of Vitamin C which will ensure better delivery of the active to the cells. I do not believe that you can find anything like this if you don't work in the cosmetic industry.
(Hence it is better to use Ascorbic Acid which is very easy to obtain from a pharmacy).
One more thing: should you use lipofilic vitamin C you need to prepare the base (the serum/ creme) in a way that it contains a lipofilic phase. than you'll need an emulsifier and a stabiliser for the emulsion. (This is much more difficult than preparing a simple hydro/water based serum and dissolve Ascorbic Acid powder in it. A serum like this does even need an emulsifier and it will be stable without a stabilizer, not to mention the vitamin C you'll get from it is in higher concentration and ready for your cells )

[VesperLynd]

thank you for your comments.

- I think I will alternate the L-Ascorbic Acid dissolved in distilled water and Tetrahexydecylascorbate in a carrier oil.


VL

[TheFountain]

Eva how do I correctly use Retin-a and Kojic acid in conjunction?

[Eva Victoria]

Eva how do I correctly use Retin-a and Kojic acid in conjunction?

I would recommend you using Retin-A in the evening and the product containing Kojic Acid in the morning. Both should be applied on clean skin and followed with a moisturizer if it is necessary. Sunscreen during the day is a must.

[TheFountain]

Eva how do I correctly use Retin-a and Kojic acid in conjunction?

I would recommend you using Retin-A in the evening and the product containing Kojic Acid in the morning. Both should be applied on clean skin and followed with a moisturizer if it is necessary. Sunscreen during the day is a must.

Thank you. I think I am going to try using kojic acid instead of HQ as you suggested in the PM a couple of weeks ago. I might still use HQ a couple times a week in the beginning before totally excluding it from my regimen in favor of kojic acid and sepiwhite (opinion on sepiwhite?). I am also doing regular lactic peels (once every week and a half) which is yielding nice results.

Edited by TheFountain, 01 February 2010 - 03:59 PM.

[Nootropic Cat]

Couple of possibly dumb questions:

Are you recommending that people use sunscreen every day even if they don't spend much time outside? Do they still need protection from sunlight coming through the windows?

What are your thoughts on keeping a beard? It makes it impossible to apply skin care products to the skin underneath, but does it make up for that by providing protection? I'm guessing the answer is yes since our scalps seem to do ok, or is the skin on the face qualitatively different?