70 replies to this topic

[TheFountain]

I just wanted to explore the reasons so many people have problems with men wearing make up. I mean the premise is usually that it is a feminine thing. But when did this come about in history? It isn't as though women were the first to don make up, men once upon a time wore it just as much as women did.

Could it be that men stopped wearing it as much when the responsibility between genders was no longer divided equally during the patriarchalization of modern society? This would make sense since during this period men became increasingly more concerned with contriving ways to control both one another and women so they had little to no time to worry about personal aesthetics.

But now, in modern society, we see that this trend is beginning to reverse itself. With the incursion of 'emo' and 'scene' culture into our modern lives, it is becoming increasingly more acceptable for males to don make up and other typically 'feminine' Paraphernalia. I mean what it basically comes down to is why should it be alright for women to hide their imperfections beneath layers of make up but not men?

Any valid answers?

Edited by TheFountain, 03 September 2009 - 06:40 AM.

[JLL]

So wear makeup.

[Ali]

are you gay?!.....jk

Think the key is to wear make up and not look like ur wearing it, then theres no issue ;-)

[FunkOdyssey]

I mean what it basically comes down to is why should it be alright for women to hide their imperfections beneath layers of make up but not men?

Any valid answers?

My opinion: the masculine archetype is confident in his appearance (as he is confident in all other areas) and is unconcerned with imperfections. The insecurity and self-consciousness that would motivate a man to wear makeup are viewed as effeminate traits.

[TheFountain]

So wear makeup.

I do. Do you have a problem with me discussing it for some reason?

[TheFountain]

I mean what it basically comes down to is why should it be alright for women to hide their imperfections beneath layers of make up but not men?

Any valid answers?

My opinion: the masculine archetype is confident in his appearance (as he is confident in all other areas) and is unconcerned with imperfections. The insecurity and self-consciousness that would motivate a man to wear makeup are viewed as effeminate traits.

So you are saying that females are naturally less confident than men? hmm That theory is flawed because men tend to do what they do for self confidence issues no less than what women do for theirs. The point of this discussion is to bridge gender gaps not to keep them apart.

[TheFountain]

Think the key is to wear make up and not look like ur wearing it, then theres no issue

Which can be said of both genders.

[TheFountain]

A couple of images of guys wearing make up.

They don't look too un-confident do they?

Edited by TheFountain, 03 September 2009 - 05:25 PM.

[FunkOdyssey]

So you are saying that females are naturally less confident than men? hmm That theory is flawed because men tend to do what they do for self confidence issues no less than what women do for theirs. The point of this discussion is to bridge gender gaps not to keep them apart.

Yes, I would say that women are naturally less confident than men as testosterone has a major influence on this behavioral trait.

What makes "bridging gender gaps" and resolving differences between gender a worthy goal? I would much rather appreciate women and the ways they are uniquely different (in some ways superior, in some ways inferior) than try to emulate them.

You know what you end up with when you succeed in bridging all gaps between gender? A hermaphrodite.

Edited by FunkOdyssey, 03 September 2009 - 05:26 PM.

[ajnast4r]

The insecurity and self-consciousness that would motivate a man to wear makeup are viewed as effeminate traits.

this is it exactly

[Shepard]

Men don't wear make-up because women care more about cash money than acne scars.

Problem solved.

I kid, but it's not entirely false. Most people are going to do what is required of them to have sex on at least a somewhat regular basis. I always know when one of my training partners is having a dry spell, because that's when the bench press and curls get added back into his program.

Edited by Shepard, 03 September 2009 - 06:58 PM.

[niner]

Isn't makeup a way that women accentuate some of their secondary sexual characteristics? This enhances their attractiveness to males, generally speaking. Guys enhance their secondary sexual characterists, like big muscles, in order to be attractive to women, or maybe to gay men in some cases. The guys in the pictures above don't look particularly confident to me. The second one is scary looking. Did he hang out with Michael Jackson? I don't have any problem with guys who want to look like girls. More power to 'em, but no half measures. Either do it right or don't do it. Either look like a boy or like a girl, but not like a freak. Just MHO; people can do what they want, just have some class.

[Shepard]

The guys in the pictures above don't look particularly confident to me. The second one is scary looking. Did he hang out with Michael Jackson?

Dave Navarro can do as he pleases, he was married to Carmen Electra. Plus, he's pretty.

First dude does look like he wants to hide behind his appearance, though.

[TheFountain]

So you are saying that females are naturally less confident than men? hmm That theory is flawed because men tend to do what they do for self confidence issues no less than what women do for theirs. The point of this discussion is to bridge gender gaps not to keep them apart.

Yes, I would say that women are naturally less confident than men as testosterone has a major influence on this behavioral trait.

What makes "bridging gender gaps" and resolving differences between gender a worthy goal? I would much rather appreciate women and the ways they are uniquely different (in some ways superior, in some ways inferior) than try to emulate them.

You know what you end up with when you succeed in bridging all gaps between gender? A hermaphrodite.

Is there any solid science that shows 'confidence' as a tangible, measurable phenomenon that relates directly to hormone levels? I doubt it. I think what you are referring to is the facade of confidence, not a tangible phenomenon called such. And I agree, men are much better at hiding their bullshit than women. Doesn't mean anything. What I mean by 'bridging the gap between genders' is getting over things that have nothing to do with basic gender differences and everything to do with exaggerated social conditioning factors. Like wearing make up. Once upon a time women did not wear pants because pants were perceived as masculine. What makes this any different?

[TheFountain]

Isn't makeup a way that women accentuate some of their secondary sexual characteristics? This enhances their attractiveness to males, generally speaking. Guys enhance their secondary sexual characterists, like big muscles, in order to be attractive to women, or maybe to gay men in some cases. The guys in the pictures above don't look particularly confident to me. The second one is scary looking. Did he hang out with Michael Jackson? I don't have any problem with guys who want to look like girls. More power to 'em, but no half measures. Either do it right or don't do it. Either look like a boy or like a girl, but not like a freak. Just MHO; people can do what they want, just have some class.

Men and women have the same exact secondary sexual characteristics when it comes to the affect of excitability and increased blood flow to the face. Fuller lips, swooning eyes, redder complexion, etc. According to my girlfriend and several female friends it is no less attractive on men than on women. Where people get this stupid idea is beyond me but it is dumb.

In terms of 'men looking like women' do you say of women who cut their hair short and wear no make up that 'if they want to look like men, it is fine'? These are such superficial characteristics that they do not belong to either gender as evidenced by the appearance of the men in the above pictures. Face it, we are evolving and women are attracted to guys who wear make up.

Now having a penis, vagina, breasts, etc, I will agree is a characteristic of specific gender traits. But all this other stuff? no.

Edited by TheFountain, 03 September 2009 - 08:15 PM.

[xEva]

I just wanted to explore the reasons so many people have problems with men wearing make up. I mean the premise is usually that it is a feminine thing. But when did this come about in history? It isn't as though women were the first to don make up, men once upon a time wore it just as much as women did.
Any valid answers?

There is a theory that in times of peace the differences in clothes/makeup between sexes goes down and in times of war they increase. The unisex trend in the recent times was started by women looking more masculine back in late 80s (athletic physique, crew cut or shaved head, mens clothes). Men are picking up this trend after women.

[TheFountain]

First dude does look like he wants to hide behind his appearance, though.

Do you say the same of women who do their hair up and wear that degree of make up? Standards with regard to basic superficial things like this should be cross referential and not depend on gender.

[Shepard]

Do you say the same of women who do their hair up and wear that degree of make up? Standards with regard to basic superficial things like this should be cross referential and not depend on gender.

Certainly, some of the most beautiful women you'll meet are absolute wrecks as human beings.

[Shepard]

Face it, we are evolving and women are attracted to guys who wear make up.

Attraction is so complex that absolute statements have no place.

[TheFountain]

Face it, we are evolving and women are attracted to guys who wear make up.

Attraction is so complex that absolute statements have no place.

That is true, which is why I said we are evolving and thus our attractions are evolving with us. This should be clearly evident when the facts of today do not match up with the paradigms of old.

[chrisrich]

I mean what it basically comes down to is why should it be alright for women to hide their imperfections beneath layers of make up but not men?

Any valid answers?

My opinion: the masculine archetype is confident in his appearance (as he is confident in all other areas) and is unconcerned with imperfections. The insecurity and self-consciousness that would motivate a man to wear makeup are viewed as effeminate traits.

I would tend to agree....but by that rational it would seem that all women or people who wear makeup are insecure...and who's fault is that? I would say our shallow society that places such importance on looks over real beauty. I use a small amount of cover-up on pimples and moisturizer but I look at these as topical agents and not as "makeup". Like people wishing they knew of a way how to get taller, they are missing the obvious...we are all perfect the way we are!

Edit: commercial link removed.

Edited by niner, 03 September 2009 - 11:29 PM.

[TheFountain]

I mean what it basically comes down to is why should it be alright for women to hide their imperfections beneath layers of make up but not men?

Any valid answers?

My opinion: the masculine archetype is confident in his appearance (as he is confident in all other areas) and is unconcerned with imperfections. The insecurity and self-consciousness that would motivate a man to wear makeup are viewed as effeminate traits.

I would tend to agree....but by that rational it would seem that all women or people who wear makeup are insecure...and who's fault is that? I would say our shallow society that places such importance on looks over real beauty. I use a small amount of cover-up on pimples and moisturizer but I look at these as topical agents and not as "makeup". Like people wishing they knew of a way how to get taller, they are missing the obvious...we are all perfect the way we are!

Good point, this entire website is about altering something about ourselves. All those people who use Retin-A (like myself) should not think their efforts are any less about insecurity than when someone wears cover up, a wig, a really cool pair of sunglasses, eyeliner, a muscle shirt, or whatever the ornate form of costume might be.

Edit: Removed commercial link from quoted text

Edited by niner, 04 September 2009 - 12:27 AM.

[Connor MacLeod]

I just wanted to explore the reasons so many people have problems with men wearing make up. I mean the premise is usually that it is a feminine thing. But when did this come about in history? It isn't as though women were the first to don make up, men once upon a time wore it just as much as women did.

[Skötkonung]

Why do you wear makeup? To accentuate your features or cover imperfections.

[TheFountain]

Why do you wear makeup? To accentuate your features or cover imperfections.

I wear it as an aesthetic sort of comfort. The women who tend to be attracted to me tap into that same aesthetic comfort I guess. It is kind of like looking at a really nice, ornate painting from the middle ages. A sort of guilty pleasure, but preferably without the guilt. What lies behind the painting is a matter of both speculation and exploration.

Edited by TheFountain, 04 September 2009 - 01:09 AM.

[Matt]

Some of the girls at work when we got into a discussion over cosmetics said that men using just simple things like moisturizing, exfoliating and using other skin cream products was too much for a man. I completely disagreed, but I think it was split 50/50 between men doing all this stuff, including make up.

I do not have a problem with men wearing some makeup to cover imperfections. I went through terrible acne and I have considerable hyperpigmentation even now some years later... it's fading but I don't think it will be gone until i'm at least 30 (without help of things like retinols or whatever). Even now when looking the marks it does get annoying, but I'm far more confident now than I used to be as a teenager with them... Many of my friends wear it (the males) and it looks pretty good if done right. I DREAM of flawless skin, I know my skin isn't all that bad but it could be FAR better still... I have never wore make up though, but some people at work thought I did... (uhh??)

Theres the kind of make up here what Jared has on and theres just a more sutble approach that you see males wearing like on the TV news, actors, male models and whatever...

Good topic, i would of liked to see a POLL done on this...

Edited by Matt, 04 September 2009 - 12:01 PM.

[niner]

Some of the girls at work when we got into a discussion over cosmetics said that men using just simple things like moisturizing, exfoliating and using other skin cream products was too much for a man.

They don't know what they're talking about. If you sat them down in a room with a sample of guys, half of which took good care of their skin and half of which didn't, and you asked them to pick the cute ones, they would pick the ones who took care of their skin, all else being equal.

I do not have a problem with men wearing some makeup to cover imperfections.

I don't either, but I think TheFountain is talking about the Vogue look, like the second of the dudes he posted pictures of.

Good topic, i would of liked to see a POLL done on this...

Well, at least the topic won't keep coming back to life every time someone votes in it...

[castrensis]

Some of the girls at work when we got into a discussion over cosmetics said that men using just simple things like moisturizing, exfoliating and using other skin cream products was too much for a man.

They don't know what they're talking about. If you sat them down in a room with a sample of guys, half of which took good care of their skin and half of which didn't, and you asked them to pick the cute ones, they would pick the ones who took care of their skin, all else being equal.

Agreed. The face is the most exposed (in most modern cultures) portion of our skin & the portion of the human anatomy that is identified with a person, accordingly people can make subtle, but significant, judgments about a person based on their facial skin. Clean, clear, even facial complexions result in a judgment of good health &, for the evolutionary psychologist, desirable breeding material. Blemishes - be they blockage & infection of the pores, hyper/hypopigmentation as the result of too much sun exposure, excessive redness r/t inflammation, scarification secondary to a disease process, &c - result in a judgment of ill-health & poor breeding stock. Good reasons to take care of your skin.

Thankfully, we have many tools to correct these deficiencies in facial skin & positively influence others' perception, the most crude but efficient among them: makeup. However, there is a distinct difference between utilizing makeup to obscure imperfections in facial skin & using makeup to augment the appearance of the face. The former results in the average person being unable to determine that the person has obscured that which adversely affects the perception of others; the latter is an overt use of the medium to draw the attention of others to their facial painting. One is corrective, the other gratuitous.

[ajnast4r]

Face it, we are evolving and women are attracted to guys who wear make up.

you are sadly mistaken... women are attracted to dave nevaro because hes famous and good looking, not because of his makeup. they accept his makeup because of the aforementioned reasons. they there is only a small portion of women who would be attracted to a man who wears makeup. society is a long long way off from finding this to be an acceptable and attractive norm.

women like men who are masculine, that's just how it is.

[TheFountain]

Face it, we are evolving and women are attracted to guys who wear make up.

you are sadly mistaken... women are attracted to dave nevaro because hes famous and good looking, not because of his makeup. they accept his makeup because of the aforementioned reasons. they there is only a small portion of women who would be attracted to a man who wears makeup. society is a long long way off from finding this to be an acceptable and attractive norm.

women like men who are masculine, that's just how it is.

I am not going to argue with you over your own misconceptions. Obviously men think they have women figured out and vice versa. I can tell you from first hand experience that my generation of females is evolving to become increasingly attracted to guys who strike a balance between their masculine and feminine sides. The one sided masculine type is obsolete and not needed anymore. But continue trying to live in that outdated paradigm. You will awaken some day.