84 replies to this topic

[EdwardCTV]

ive read that while lean free range chickens n grass fed beef, etc. are great sources of protein...they are not ideal post workout as your body needs something which provides protein @ a much faster rate than it would by having to break down the proteins in chicken/beef/egg whites etc.....in comes whey protein isolate and according to various websites its the "Best" for building muscle.

however ive read that whey protein causes various problems for people who have allergies so i looked into an alternative and found that rice protein along with pea protein combined can rival whey protein...

are there any gym enthusiasts on here that might shed some light on good protein powders and ur take on whey protein?

[rollo]

ive read that while lean free range chickens n grass fed beef, etc. are great sources of protein...they are not ideal post workout as your body needs something which provides protein @ a much faster rate than it would by having to break down the proteins in chicken/beef/egg whites etc.....in comes whey protein isolate and according to various websites its the "Best" for building muscle.

however ive read that whey protein causes various problems for people who have allergies so i looked into an alternative and found that rice protein along with pea protein combined can rival whey protein...

are there any gym enthusiasts on here that might shed some light on good protein powders and ur take on whey protein?

don't rely on protein shakes to build any mass, it simply won't happen...

for post workout you want a protein that's quickly digested so any whey will do... i always suggest people start of with whey protein concentrate since it's the cheapest... try to get samples or steal some from your freinds... if alergies are the case then first sample starting with concentrate - > isolate - > gemma pea - > rice.....

30-60 mins after your your protein shake(which should contain some fast carbs OR slow+fast carbs) you should have a well balanced meal...

Edited by rollo, 21 September 2009 - 03:27 AM.

[RighteousReason]

BCAAs

[Ron]

don't rely on protein shakes to build any mass, it simply won't happen...

Why do you say that?

[VespeneGas]

You just need to eat a ton of food to build big muscles, and trying to get it all from shakes is tedious, not nutritious, etc. I lived mostly off of shakes a couple years ago and didn't see very rapid gains. A healthy diet includes a variety of foods of course, so unless you've got egg yolks and spinach going into your shakes, they're probably not balanced enough to provide your nutritional needs.

Don't get me wrong, 45 minutes before and immediately after a workout, whey protein based shakes can't be beat. But for the rest of the day, slow protein like meat, eggs, milk, beans/rice, etc are preferred.

[shaggy]

BCAAs

Dosages?

I think protein shakes do assist with keeping and/or increasing lean mass, particularly when I'm cutting up, they help me keep more of my muscle and strength.

[rollo]

don't rely on protein shakes to build any mass, it simply won't happen...

Why do you say that?

Because I've tried it as have a great many. And it isn't something I could prove at all by pointing to studies, it's about experience.

If all it took was protein shakes to gain LBM the supplement industry, geared towards muscle building, would shutdown.

Edited by rollo, 22 September 2009 - 01:29 AM.

[msied]

so i looked into an alternative and found that rice protein along with pea protein combined can rival whey protein...

http://www.ergo-log....antprotein.html

Watch out...

[spacetime]

ive read that while lean free range chickens n grass fed beef, etc. are great sources of protein...they are not ideal post workout as your body needs something which provides protein @ a much faster rate than it would by having to break down the proteins in chicken/beef/egg whites etc.....in comes whey protein isolate and according to various websites its the "Best" for building muscle.

however ive read that whey protein causes various problems for people who have allergies so i looked into an alternative and found that rice protein along with pea protein combined can rival whey protein...

are there any gym enthusiasts on here that might shed some light on good protein powders and ur take on whey protein?

don't rely on protein shakes to build any mass, it simply won't happen...

for post workout you want a protein that's quickly digested so any whey will do... i always suggest people start of with whey protein concentrate since it's the cheapest... try to get samples or steal some from your freinds... if alergies are the case then first sample starting with concentrate - > isolate - > gemma pea - > rice.....

30-60 mins after your your protein shake(which should contain some fast carbs OR slow+fast carbs) you should have a well balanced meal...

First you say protein shakes are worthless then you go on to suggest several forms of protein and advise a post workout shake???

Protein is the most important aspect to gaining muscle. You do not need to use protein shakes but they can be a convenience. It all the worthless creatine or nitric oxide products that are crap. Now, they do have some prohormone products which are really just grey market steroids and those will certainly help. But protein is a crucial element and shakes alone are sufficient to build mass when part of a sound diet and exercise routine.

[yoyo]

enough protein (1g up to 1.5g during dieting per lbs body weight) & some creatine monoh. is about all you need. there is plenty of BCAA in whey, not that you'll find any evidence for them unless you're in traction. fish oil 2-3g epa/dha probably helps w/ partitioning too.

periodized routine 2-3 times a week per muscle and adding weight to the bar. eat a big meal right after the workout. you can't gain muscle if you don't get a little pudgy at least some of the time.

[msied]

ive read that while lean free range chickens n grass fed beef, etc. are great sources of protein...they are not ideal post workout as your body needs something which provides protein @ a much faster rate than it would by having to break down the proteins in chicken/beef/egg whites etc.....in comes whey protein isolate and according to various websites its the "Best" for building muscle.

however ive read that whey protein causes various problems for people who have allergies so i looked into an alternative and found that rice protein along with pea protein combined can rival whey protein...

are there any gym enthusiasts on here that might shed some light on good protein powders and ur take on whey protein?

don't rely on protein shakes to build any mass, it simply won't happen...

for post workout you want a protein that's quickly digested so any whey will do... i always suggest people start of with whey protein concentrate since it's the cheapest... try to get samples or steal some from your freinds... if alergies are the case then first sample starting with concentrate - > isolate - > gemma pea - > rice.....

30-60 mins after your your protein shake(which should contain some fast carbs OR slow+fast carbs) you should have a well balanced meal...

First you say protein shakes are worthless then you go on to suggest several forms of protein and advise a post workout shake???

Protein is the most important aspect to gaining muscle. You do not need to use protein shakes but they can be a convenience. It all the worthless creatine or nitric oxide products that are crap. Now, they do have some prohormone products which are really just grey market steroids and those will certainly help. But protein is a crucial element and shakes alone are sufficient to build mass when part of a sound diet and exercise routine.

Now now, let's not rule out creatine and NO explode too soon.

http://www.supplemen...ve-performance/
-- for muscle gain alone, of course it won't do, but like protein shakes, a good weight routine goes a bit longer with NO.

http://www.supplemen...rs-blood-sugar/

[health_nutty]

Olive oil is hands down the best "supplement" to gain muscle mass.

[hamishm00]

Bodybuilders have been known to consume up to 1kg (yes, 1000 grams) of whey a day.

There's your answer I think.

[ppp]

Glutamine...

[shaggy]

Bodybuilders have been known to consume up to 1kg (yes, 1000 grams) of whey a day.

There's your answer I think.

Yes... Along with testosterone enanthate, tren, dbol, deca, EQ, growth, insulin, etc

Might also be worth remembering, several top rank bodybuilders have suffered kidney failure... Mega dosing on protein is not good.

Edited by shaggy, 22 September 2009 - 07:29 AM.

[csrpj]

whey and sugar (malodextrine a fine source) after workout, maybe before and during.

creatine. with your post-workout shake, some take it daily.

those are the basics. some also like ZMA.

many take pre-workout drinks focused on getting more energy/endurance/concentration/strength so the actual workout is better. ALCAR, citrulline malate, AAKG, beta-alanine, taurine are the main sources for this.

[caston]

I'm interested in hearing as to why Health Nutty considers olive oil good for body building... Wouldn't flax seed oil be better for you heart due to the higher omega 3 content?

Edited by caston, 22 September 2009 - 11:52 AM.

[Lufega]

Watch porn.

The anabolic effect of dirty films

[caston]

Watch porn.

The anabolic effect of dirty films

hahaha.. if that worked i'd be built like a tank

Edited by caston, 22 September 2009 - 11:58 AM.

[RighteousReason]

Watch porn.

The anabolic effect of dirty films

No way, haha. That's hilarious

Edited by RighteousReason, 22 September 2009 - 04:19 PM.

[RighteousReason]

BCAAs

Dosages?

I think protein shakes do assist with keeping and/or increasing lean mass, particularly when I'm cutting up, they help me keep more of my muscle and strength.

A scoop of weigh generally has ~5 grams of BCAAs already, I put in another 5 grams extra.

I do one of these pre workout, 45 minutes or so before, and one immediately after.

Adding a scoop of carbs (maltodextrin) to the mix can boost growth hormone response, and I suppose other benefits.

I've been taking beta-alanine and taurine too. I took citrulline malate for a while, now I'm off of it. I might start it back up again. Also creatine monohydrate may be a good supplement.

Edited by RighteousReason, 22 September 2009 - 04:24 PM.

[juanjo_asdf]

Ufff people on the thread are generally not very informed abous suplements I see. A few things off the top of my head

You can get very technical as to what you consume to get anabolism running.

My bets are Whey protein, EFA's, CEE (Creatine Etyl Ester)

A few of the supplements out there are quite fun as to adding to your exercise routine. I like products for example from the anabolicfitness line although a lot of their products can be built by yourself or chosen from another company
- Some type of stimulant or mild fat burner: to get some crushing power for your workouts and too boost metabolism (I like Cardio Breeze for this, I dont use it much but keep it handy and its cheap)
- ALCAR, Green Tea, r-ALA: keep metabolism high, excelent for health, keep fat away
- Pre-Workout product: NO type product is usefull, you can compliement it with your own CEE or Beta-Alanaine as needed. Or build your own. There is usaly some kind of stimulant in them to increase workout intentisty
- Nootropics: I tried to get very technical on what nootropics to consume and everything but now a days I keep it very simple. I consume a premade formula on a daily basis to give nutrition to my brain and some nootropic ingredients. I dont depend on it, nor do I expect the magical effect from it, its part of my daily nutrion and that's it. Neurogenex from the AFstore I like a lot, has the basic: Piraceta, Hup-A, Vinpocetine, DMAE, Galantamide, Rhodiola...)
- Some things I take for health but I know boost my workouts: MSM+Vitamin C, Maca, Cordyceps, Rhodiola.

Food is very anabolic:
- Taking suplements like ALCAR, r-ALA, Green Tea... Will help you tolerate greater amounts of food intake while keeping the fat away.
- Eating good food (non-process, sugar free, natural, easy for you to digest) is necesary to effectively increase the intake of calories.
- Getting some cardio done (especially interval training) to maintain your high food intake.
- You can even play with increasing the amount of calories you ingest at night time if you are a hardgainer.
- Plenty of healthy fats (flax seed, hemp milk, fish oil, avocados), good proteins (quality organic red meat, whey protein, quality eggs). Protein shakes are an excellent source of protein beacuse they are easily digestible and are quality. Gettin large amounts of protein from meat is not very economic, ecological, sustainable, or healthy. The meat you eat should ideally come from good sources (grass fed cows eg.)
- Take care of the health of your digestive tract: digestive enzymes, fiber (psyllum husks, xathan gum in your shakes), colon cleansing products a few times a year, plenty of water between meals and not during meals...
- To keep your caloric intake managable with your daily life you have to get resources that will keep you on track. I have pre-prepared bags with nuts, raw chocolate and some berries (Incan, Goji) on the go, as well as a premade shake that I just poor into any 500ml bottle shake and consume (raw cacao, whey isolate, psyllium husk, mesquite, stevia, powdered raw vanilla, and some others). I eat like any one else but I compliment my nutrition with these shakes and snack food all through out the day to compliment or to substitute my meals to get where I want to get calorie wise. I do it for convinience. My project is to produce my own hemp milk to have at my disposal when possible. I might use oat milk or rice milk at home.
- I include a good dose of greens in my diet: big daily salad, green capsules packed by myself (spirulina, barely grass etc...)


Anabolic things
- Rest and recovery:Living very relaxed and centered on your goals castling out sources of stress, perfecting your sleeping patterns (hours necesary, lighting, noise reduction, relaxing before sleep, bed, suplements, no heavy digestions going on...)
- Visualization: during the exercise process visualize the muscle work and burining
- Training: Compound movements, slower movement (explosive power breeds strength not muscle), periodization, keeping an eye out for your core development, learning the barrier of overtraining
- Water
- Healthy digestive system
-

[shaggy]

Ufff people on the thread are generally not very informed abous suplements I see. A few things off the top of my head

You can get very technical as to what you consume to get anabolism running.

My bets are Whey protein, EFA's, CEE (Creatine Etyl Ester)

Maybe you're not as smart as you think either...

Show me some evidence on CEE efficacy?

[msied]

I'm interested in hearing as to why Health Nutty considers olive oil good for body building... Wouldn't flax seed oil be better for you heart due to the higher omega 3 content?

Here ya go!

http://www.ergo-log.com/olivetest.html

[Mike M]

Free form amino's are far different from bound. You can't compare the results of studies using bcaa's and cross them over to whey useage. There is a study that was done by Scivation showing the difference in whey vs gatorade vs xtend (bcaa's) : http://www.strengtha...wordpress/?p=61

Your diet is still #1. If your genetics are superior, you can't offset it with supplements. Nothing is going to replace a quality diet. If you want to do supplements, I'd use Creatine Monohydrate over CEE. It's cheaper and CEE isn't proven to be more effective. Saftey profile is proven on creatine. Instead of just focusing on getting protein in your diet, focus on getting essential fats and fiber with each meal (on top of protein of course).

[health_nutty]

I'm interested in hearing as to why Health Nutty considers olive oil good for body building... Wouldn't flax seed oil be better for you heart due to the higher omega 3 content?

Monosaturated fat and saturated fat (but not polysatured fats) help boost testosterone. Olive oil also adds calories without spiking your blood sugar. I had very good results from adding a half a cup of 1/3 to a 1/2 cup of olive oil to my diet per day.

[apache]

Ain't no supplement gonna make you hoooge. It's in your mind. I can go to the gym and by one look, see if someone's "got what it takes." There's no rhyme or reason to it all, it's just your mindset - you gotta push yourself to lift heavier: more focus, concentration, in the zone, etc. There's a hint of truth to "no pain, no gain."

One useful aspect of many bodybuilding supplements, however, is the placebo effect. Whether its the tingling sensation from beta alanine or the buzz from caffeine, if that helps you get into that proper frame of mind then mission accomplished.

[msied]

If you want the edge I'm playing with at the gym right now, I recommend the following articles:

http://www.ergo-log.com/kaatsu2.html (application: wrist bands on upper arms)
http://www.ergo-log....mangosteen.html (I've noticed definite improvements in recovery time while on this, pretty sure it wasn't placebo)

Edited by msied, 23 September 2009 - 02:28 AM.

[rollo]

ive read that while lean free range chickens n grass fed beef, etc. are great sources of protein...they are not ideal post workout as your body needs something which provides protein @ a much faster rate than it would by having to break down the proteins in chicken/beef/egg whites etc.....in comes whey protein isolate and according to various websites its the "Best" for building muscle.

however ive read that whey protein causes various problems for people who have allergies so i looked into an alternative and found that rice protein along with pea protein combined can rival whey protein...

are there any gym enthusiasts on here that might shed some light on good protein powders and ur take on whey protein?

don't rely on protein shakes to build any mass, it simply won't happen...

for post workout you want a protein that's quickly digested so any whey will do... i always suggest people start of with whey protein concentrate since it's the cheapest... try to get samples or steal some from your freinds... if alergies are the case then first sample starting with concentrate - > isolate - > gemma pea - > rice.....

30-60 mins after your your protein shake(which should contain some fast carbs OR slow+fast carbs) you should have a well balanced meal...

First you say protein shakes are worthless then you go on to suggest several forms of protein and advise a post workout shake???

Protein is the most important aspect to gaining muscle. You do not need to use protein shakes but they can be a convenience. It all the worthless creatine or nitric oxide products that are crap. Now, they do have some prohormone products which are really just grey market steroids and those will certainly help. But protein is a crucial element and shakes alone are sufficient to build mass when part of a sound diet and exercise routine.

read my post before you reply moron

i challenge you to gain some LBM while taking protein shakes alone without taking protein for real food sources

man i love supplement junkies :/

OP don't listen to this fool, rely on real food to gain mass

[thestuffjunky]

I try to keep my exercises to myself, however, I am 6'4" and 200+lbs... not a beast by all means, but a BIG human at that. Do I keep up with the IRON, heck no... i stay in natural shape by eating less sugars and consuming more vitamins and metals(minerals) in my diets. i walk up the stairs, park further away from the front of the store and carry my child down and up stairs. I dont think the other posters were intending to say that you dont need protein(YOU DO. At least 1 gram per pound of body weight to JUST maintain your current weight) Remember it is the building block behind body MASS. Look at vegetarians....!! However, creatines and such MUSCLE fuels are a part of the regiment, but should not be overfueled... As for the frequency, FIRST you need to rid of the reserve body fat FUEL before you start to burn protein into LACTID acid and that cools and becomes muscle. So, if you are overweight, eat 1/2g per LB of body weight AFTER(everything should be after)(if you eat meat). workout light. depending on size, HALF your weight and 1/10th that in reps and at least 3 sets. this is a toning regime.... i can be found at http://www.imminst.o...o...c=31794&hl= to talk more about it...