84 replies to this topic

[Happy Gringo]

Whey protein works great. I think that it may be too quick burning however, for use outside of post-workout shakes, so I mix half a scoop with full-fat milk to supplement my meals. I'm thinking the fat would slow down absorption. Helped me break through a plateau and gain steady muscle.

[Ron]

- Take care of the health of your digestive tract: digestive enzymes, fiber (psyllum husks, xathan gum in your shakes), colon cleansing products a few times a year, plenty of water between meals and not during meals...

Why do you say no water during meals?

[immortali457]

Dianabol and squats till you puke

[RighteousReason]

Dianabol and squats till you puke

steroids? really?

[rephore]

Fish oil. Megadose it.

[immortali457]

Dianabol and squats till you puke

steroids? really?

Yes Bertil Fox say's so.

[tunt01]

In conclusion, two supplements, creatine and HMB, have data supporting their use to augment lean mass and strength gains with resistance training.


http://jap.physiolog...t/full/94/2/651

[RighteousReason]

In conclusion, two supplements, creatine and HMB, have data supporting their use to augment lean mass and strength gains with resistance training.


http://jap.physiolog...t/full/94/2/651

That's an awesome study. I've never even heard of HMB until now.

[immortali457]

I learned HMB was a waste years ago. Still believe it. Made Bill Phillips a pretty penny though.

[RighteousReason]

I learned HMB was a waste years ago. Still believe it. Made Bill Phillips a pretty penny though.

any studies?

it looks interesting. i just bought some.

[RighteousReason]

This study investigated the effects of 6 weeks of dietary supplementation of beta-hydroxy-beta-methylbutyrate (HMB) and HMB combined with creatine monohydrate (HMBCr) on the muscular strength and endurance, leg power, and anthropometry of elite male rugby league players. The subjects were divided into a control group (n = 8), a HMB group (n = 11; 3 g.d(-1)) or a HMBCr group (n = 11; 12 g.d(-1) with 3 g HMB, 3 g Cr, 6 g carbohydrates). Three repetition maximum lifts on bench press, deadlifts, prone row, and shoulder press, maximum chin-up repetitions, 10-second maximal cycle test, body mass, girths, and sum of skinfolds were assessed pre- and postsupplementation. Statistical analysis revealed no effect of HMB or HMBCr on any parameter compared with presupplementation measures or the control group. HMB and HMBCr were concluded to have no ergogenic effect on muscular strength and endurance, leg power, or anthropometry when taken orally by highly trained male athletes over 6 weeks.
PMID: 17530933 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

This study assesses the effects of daily beta-hydroxy beta-methylbutyrate (HMB) supplementation on muscular strength (bench press, squats, and power cleans) and body composition (body weight and body fat) among collegiate football players undergoing a strenuous exercise program. Subjects were collegiate football players (n = 35) training under the supervision of certified strength coaches averaging 20 hours of weekly exercise. In the first supplementation period, 16 of the 35 subjects were supplemented with 3 g of HMB per day for 4 weeks; the other 19 received a placebo followed by a 1-week washout period and then a second supplementation period in a randomized double-blind crossover, placebo design. There were no significant changes (p > 0.05) in muscular strength, including bench press, squats, and power cleans, among the subjects. There were also no significant changes (p > 0.05) in body composition, including body fat and body weight. Very little clinical evidence exists for supplementing HMB in athletic populations.
PMID: 12580653 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

The purpose of this study was to determine the effect of beta-hydroxy beta-methylbutyrate (HMB) supplementation on maximal oxygen consumption (.V(O)(2)peak) and the onset of blood lactate accumulation (OBLA) in endurance-trained cyclists. Eight cyclists randomly (double blind) completed 3 2-week supplementation periods (HMB, 3g.day(-1); leucine [LEU], 3g.day(-1); placebo [CON], 3g.day(-1)) followed by a 2-week washout period. Testing consisted of a graded cycle ergometry test to measure .V(O)(2)peak and OBLA, the .V(O)(2) at 2 mM blood lactate. .V(O)(2)peak was unaffected by HMB (4.0 +/- 1.4%), LEU (-1.9 +/- 1.3%), and CON (-2.6 +/- 2.6%). HMB resulted in a greater time to reach .V(O)(2)peak, whereas LEU and CON did not affect this time (HMB, 3.6 +/- 1.5 min, LEU, -1.2 +/- 1.5 min; CON, -3.6 +/- 3.5 min). Lactate accumulation peak was unaffected by supplementation (HMB, 8.1 +/- 1.1 mM; LEU, 6.2 +/- 0.8 mM; CON, 7.5 +/- 1.3 mM). OBLA increased with HMB (9.1 +/- 2.4%) and LEU (2.1 +/- 1.5%), but not in the CON trial (0.75 +/- 2.1%). Blood glucose was significantly greater during the HMB trial compared with the LEU trial. It is concluded that HMB supplementation may have positive affects on performance by increasing the onset of blood lactate accumulation; however, the mechanism is unknown.
PMID: 11726262 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

This investigation evaluated the effects of oral beta-hydroxy-beta-methylbutyrate (HMB) supplementation on training responses in resistance-trained male athletes who were randomly administered HMB in standard encapsulation (SH), HMB in time release capsule (TRH), or placebo (P) in a double-blind fashion. Subjects ingested 3 g x day(-1) of HMB or placebo for 6 weeks. Tests were conducted pre-supplementation and following 3 and 6 weeks of supplementation. The testing battery assessed body mass, body composition (using dual energy x-ray absorptiometry), and 3-repetition maximum isoinertial strength, plus biochemical parameters, including markers of muscle damage and muscle protein turnover. While the training and dietary intervention of the investigation resulted in significant strength gains (p < .001) and an increase in total lean mass (p = .01), HMB administration had no influence on these variables. Likewise, biochemical markers of muscle protein turnover and muscle damage were also unaffected by HMB supplementation. The data indicate that 6 weeks of HMB supplementation in either SH or TRH form does not influence changes in strength and body composition in response to resistance training in strength-trained athletes.
PMID: 11599506 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

huh, however...

We investigated whether creatine (CR) and beta-hydroxy-beta-methylbutyrate (HMB) act by similar or different mechanisms to increase lean body mass (LBM) and strength in humans undergoing progressive resistance-exercise training. In this double-blind, 3-wk study, subjects (n = 40) were randomized to placebo (PL; n = 10), CR (20.0 g of CR/d for 7 d followed by 10.0 g of CR/d for 14 d; n = 11), HMB (3.0 g of HMB/d; n = 9), or CR-and-HMB (CR/HMB; n = 10) treatment groups. Over 3 wk, all subjects gained LBM, which was assessed by bioelectrical impedance analysis. The CR, HMB and CR/HMB groups gained 0.92, 0.39, and 1.54 kg of LBM, respectively, over the placebo group, with a significant effect with CR supplementation (main effect P = 0.05) and a trend with HMB supplementation (main effect P = 0.08). These effects were additive because there was no interaction between CR and HMB (CR x HMB main effect P = 0.73). Across all exercises, HMB, CR, and CR/HMB supplementation caused accumulative strength increases of 37.5, 39.1, and 51.9 kg, respectively, above the placebo group. The exercise-induced rise in serum creatine phosphokinase was markedly suppressed with HMB supplementation (main effect P = 0.01). However, CR supplementation antagonized the HMB effects on serum creatine phosphokinase (CR x HMB interactive effect P = 0.04). Urine urea nitrogen and plasma urea were not affected by CR supplementation, but both decreased with HMB supplementation (HMB effect P < 0.05), suggesting a nitrogen-sparing effect. In summary, CR and HMB can increase LBM and strength, and the effects are additive. Although not definitive, these results suggest that CR and HMB act by different mechanisms.
PMID: 11448573 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

The effects of supplementation of the leucine metabolite beta-hydroxy-beta-methylbutyrate (HMB) were examined in a resistance training study. Thirty-nine men and 36 women between the ages of 20-40 y were randomized to either a placebo (P) supplemented or HMB supplemented (3.0 g HMB/d) group in two gender cohorts. All subjects trained three times per week for 4 wk. In the HMB group, plasma creatine phosphokinase levels tended to be suppressed compared to the placebo group following the 4 wk of resistance training (HMB:174. 4 +/- 26.8 to 173.5 +/- 17.0 U/L; P:155.0 +/- 20.8 to 195.2 +/- 23.5 U/L). There were no significant differences in strength gains based on prior training status or gender with HMB supplementation. The HMB group had a greater increase in upper body strength than the placebo group (HMB:7.5 +/- 0.6 kg; P:5.2 +/- 0.6 kg; P = 0.008). The HMB groups increased fat-free weight by 1.4 +/- 0.2 kg and decreased percent fat by 1.1% +/- 0.2% while the placebo groups increased fat-free weight by 0.9 +/- 0.2 kg and decreased percent fat by 0.5% +/- 0.2% (fat-free weight P = 0.08, percent fat P = 0.08, HMB compared to placebo). In summary, this is the first short-term study to investigate the roles of gender and training status on the effects of HMB supplementation on strength and body composition. This study showed, regardless of gender or training status, HMB may increase upper body strength and minimize muscle damage when combined with an exercise program.
PMID: 10978853 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Edited by RighteousReason, 30 September 2009 - 02:50 AM.

[Shepard]

I really wish I had all the money back that I wasted on supplements trying to get jacked.

[RighteousReason]

I really wish I had all the money back that I wasted on supplements trying to get jacked.

is that what you think of HMB shep?

[Shepard]

Pretty much.

After being anal and taking everything under the sun with precise timing and now taking basically nothing, I noticed a whole lot of no difference. Or, the lack of stress from not worrying about it might have given me a better hormonal profile which helped out, or however you want to explain it.

So, I'll provide "Shep's Super Advanced Bang For the Buck Supplement List" pertaining to bodybuilding:

Tier 1:
Milk

Tier 2:
Whey
Powdered Gatorade
Creatine

Tier 3:
Extra Leucine
Beta-Alanine
Caffeine


This is not including other stuff you might take for joints (fish oil, whatever) or sport specific stuff (citrulline, maybe).

I have been experimenting with extra Alpha-GPC and Alcar before workouts. Nothing to note except ridiculous amounts of sweat. Like crazy, puddling sweat.

But, even the milk is way below basic training practices as far as benefits:

Consistency over the long haul
Learn how to cycle intensity
Sleep, a lot
Learn how to properly warm-up
Learn proper recovery techniques
Stay hydrated

[Ron]

Powdered Gatorade

Just because it's cheaper or what?

[Shepard]

Just because it's pure dextrose, and widely available. Waxy maize or that new hip potato starch or whatever works fine. A lower-fructose fruit juice works, too. No need to worry too much about it.

[yoyo]

why dextrose when you can eat tasty stuff like bagels or granola or something.

and i'd say fish oil and generally getting some fruit&veg is worth doing. but theres lots of threads about that here.

theres more useful stuff for cutting the extra fat you put on while bulking than there is for bulking. caffiene, ephedrine, yohimbe, nicotine, etc.

[Ben]

Could you recommend any books that will help someone with those?

Consistency over the long haul
Learn how to cycle intensity
Sleep, a lot
Learn how to properly warm-up
Learn proper recovery techniques
Stay hydrated

[LucidMind]

enough protein (1g up to 1.5g during dieting per lbs body weight) & some creatine monoh. is about all you need. there is plenty of BCAA in whey, not that you'll find any evidence for them unless you're in traction. fish oil 2-3g epa/dha probably helps w/ partitioning too.

periodized routine 2-3 times a week per muscle and adding weight to the bar. eat a big meal right after the workout. you can't gain muscle if you don't get a little pudgy at least some of the time.

hey what do you guys think about muscle milk. they sell it at costco, a 3 lb container, that has a per serving size of 26 grams of protein. cost is 36 bones. let me know about your experiences with this product. seems to be very popular now in the los angeles area....

[tunt01]

Tier 3:
Extra Leucine
Beta-Alanine
Caffeine

pretty sure HMB is a precursor to leucine, hence its effect. leucine is typically the most important amino acid in preventing/reversing sarcopenia, so your advice makes sense.

[Shepard]

why dextrose when you can eat tasty stuff like bagels or granola or something

Same reason I'm not going to eat a steak in between sets of squats. Convenience, mostly. Also, fear of losing whole meal back into bucket.

pretty sure HMB is a precursor to leucine, hence its effect. leucine is typically the most important amino acid in preventing/reversing sarcopenia, so your advice makes sense.

If memory serves, it's actually the other way around: HMB being a metabolite of leucine. One reason it probably makes more sense just to take the leucine. I'm skeptical that taking extra leucine on top of an already high overall protein intake is going to do anything, anyway.

[Shepard]

Could you recommend any books that will help someone with those?

Consistency over the long haul
Learn how to cycle intensity
Sleep, a lot
Learn how to properly warm-up
Learn proper recovery techniques
Stay hydrated

I'll PM you a list of some stuff I like, but a lot just comes from time spent making mistakes.

[Sillewater]

Hey Shepard, could you PM that to me too. Very interested in what you think is effective!

[RighteousReason]

Could you recommend any books that will help someone with those?

Consistency over the long haul
Learn how to cycle intensity
Sleep, a lot
Learn how to properly warm-up
Learn proper recovery techniques
Stay hydrated

I'll PM you a list of some stuff I like, but a lot just comes from time spent making mistakes.

Just post it here?

[VespeneGas]

Just post it here?

Yeah, I'd also like to hear your take on these topics, Shepard.

[Shepard]

Okay, I just started a new thread on the topic: http://www.imminst.o...showtopic=33271

[2tender]

- Take care of the health of your digestive tract: digestive enzymes, fiber (psyllum husks, xathan gum in your shakes), colon cleansing products a few times a year, plenty of water between meals and not during meals...

Why do you say no water during meals?

Its theorized that it may impair digestion, however, if your thirsty for water while you eat and it helps you swallow food, why not? A person doesnt want to dilute their gastic juices too much, they break down food into nutrients.

[2tender]

Powdered Gatorade

Just because it's cheaper or what?

I would avoid all gatorade and energy drinks.

[2tender]

don't rely on protein shakes to build any mass, it simply won't happen...

Why do you say that?

Protein shakes can upset your metabolism and strain kidneys. The best supplement to use instead is Creatine,whey, and glutamine its expensive but it works (LEF has it)

[RighteousReason]

don't rely on protein shakes to build any mass, it simply won't happen...

Why do you say that?

Protein shakes can upset your metabolism and strain kidneys. The best supplement to use instead is Creatine,whey, and glutamine its expensive but it works (LEF has it)

whey and glutamine are protein. that's the only thing "protein shake" means as far as I have ever heard- it's just whey

Edited by RighteousReason, 07 October 2009 - 12:17 PM.