97 replies to this topic

[Luna]

You know, until now I had trouble visualizing where the swine flu came from

That's so cute! :D

[Ghostrider]

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

[Elus]

A friend of mine just received a swine flu shot. He said that he was 'sick' this entire weekend, so there are obviously side effects to taking the vaccine. Swine flu isn't even that dangerous - I've seen people get it and recover just fine.

[niner]

He was probably already sick, and coincidentally became symptomatic shortly after the shot.

[kismet]

Swine flu isn't even that dangerous - I've seen people get it and recover just fine.

I've seen people who smoked all their life and never got lung cancer. Smoking is safe. Quod erat demonstrandum.

[Cyberbrain]

A friend of mine just received a swine flu shot. He said that he was 'sick' this entire weekend, so there are obviously side effects to taking the vaccine. Swine flu isn't even that dangerous - I've seen people get it and recover just fine.

Like niner mentioned he was most likely already sick. The swine flu vaccine will only protect you from the swine flu once it takes effect in your immune system which could be 1-3 weeks, it will not protect you from other ailments like the cold or seasonal flu. Like I mentioned, there are however some rare minor side effects (mainly in adolescents) which take place immediately after vaccination and last 1-2 days such redness on your arm, headache, or nausea.

[Elus]

I've seen people who smoked all their life and never got lung cancer. Smoking is safe. Quod erat demonstrandum.

Oh please, swine flu is not dangerous. Can you look me in the eyes and tell me that fever, fatigue, lack of appetite, coughing and sore throat warrant the mass media panic we've recently seen?

Keep in mind that there are people who die of influenza every year. Those individuals are merely people who have compromised immune systems, and when they die from swine flu, it is not very surprising.

(edit for improper phrasing)

Edited by Elus Efelier, 18 November 2009 - 01:07 AM.

[Elus]

A friend of mine just received a swine flu shot. He said that he was 'sick' this entire weekend, so there are obviously side effects to taking the vaccine. Swine flu isn't even that dangerous - I've seen people get it and recover just fine.

Like niner mentioned he was most likely already sick. The swine flu vaccine will only protect you from the swine flu once it takes effect in your immune system which could be 1-3 weeks, it will not protect you from other ailments like the cold or seasonal flu. Like I mentioned, there are however some rare minor side effects (mainly in adolescents) which take place immediately after vaccination and last 1-2 days such redness on your arm, headache, or nausea.

His symptoms were similar to the side effects you described in your first post. That does not mean he had swine flu.

[Cyberbrain]

Swine flu isn't even that dangerous - I've seen people get it and recover just fine.

I've seen people who smoked all their life and never got lung cancer. Smoking is safe. Quod erat demonstrandum.

Good point kismet. The swine flu shot is given free right now to students so there's no reason I see in not getting it. The swine flu has almost the same chance of killing you as the seasonal flu, but why take the risk and why suffer for 1-2 weeks being sick?

[Cyberbrain]

A friend of mine just received a swine flu shot. He said that he was 'sick' this entire weekend, so there are obviously side effects to taking the vaccine. Swine flu isn't even that dangerous - I've seen people get it and recover just fine.

Like niner mentioned he was most likely already sick. The swine flu vaccine will only protect you from the swine flu once it takes effect in your immune system which could be 1-3 weeks, it will not protect you from other ailments like the cold or seasonal flu. Like I mentioned, there are however some rare minor side effects (mainly in adolescents) which take place immediately after vaccination and last 1-2 days such redness on your arm, headache, or nausea.

His symptoms were similar to the side effects you described in your first post. That does not mean he had swine flu.

He could have had some symptoms from the shot, but if they lasted for a week then most likely it was a cold. I got the shot and feel perfectly fine.

[Elus]

A friend of mine just received a swine flu shot. He said that he was 'sick' this entire weekend, so there are obviously side effects to taking the vaccine. Swine flu isn't even that dangerous - I've seen people get it and recover just fine.

Like niner mentioned he was most likely already sick. The swine flu vaccine will only protect you from the swine flu once it takes effect in your immune system which could be 1-3 weeks, it will not protect you from other ailments like the cold or seasonal flu. Like I mentioned, there are however some rare minor side effects (mainly in adolescents) which take place immediately after vaccination and last 1-2 days such redness on your arm, headache, or nausea.

His symptoms were similar to the side effects you described in your first post. That does not mean he had swine flu.

He could have had some symptoms from the shot, but if they lasted for a week then most likely it was a cold. I got the shot and feel perfectly fine.

Lol, I think people misread my original post. I said he was sick for the weekend, which is only two days, hehe. But yeah, it is in line with the potential side effects that last a short time.

Edited by Elus Efelier, 18 November 2009 - 01:06 AM.

[pamojja]

The swine flu has almost the same chance of killing you as the seasonal flu, but why take the risk and why suffer for 1-2 weeks being sick?

For example to get a livelong immunity to this strain?

I've got antibodies for a sickness I didn't even mentioned I had.

[Cyberbrain]

Lol, I think people misread my original post. I said he was sick for the weekend, which is only two days, hehe. But yeah, it is in line with the potential side effects that last a short time.

Ah okay, then probably it was a small reaction to the shot. I think what happens is when it is injected, the inactive virus is attacked by the immune system and that's how the immune system creates a reinforced immunity to the real virus, but when this happens it's possible one can under symptoms such as fever, nausea, soreness, etc (just like a mild case of the cold, but this lasts for a few days only).

[rwac]

For example to get a livelong immunity to this strain?

It's not lifelong. It only lasts until the relevant T-cell population turns over.
I've heard the period of 3 years being thrown around.

[Cyberbrain]

The swine flu has almost the same chance of killing you as the seasonal flu, but why take the risk and why suffer for 1-2 weeks being sick?

For example to get a livelong immunity to this strain?

I believe unlike the chicken pox, once you get the flu you can get it again. Same thing with the cold and this swine flu. If you're sick and get better, your personal immunity to a virus will probably last only for a few months.

If one doesn't want to get vaccinated, its their choice. Of course if one is to be vaccinated (for anything) they should meticulously and carefully look into the vaccine they're getting. It's correct to be cautious (I did a lot of research before getting the swine flu shot), but most people I hear who are against vaccination tend be on the extreme left side of bioluddism. Personally I think getting the swine flu is more riskier than getting the swine flu vaccine.

[pamojja]

I believe unlike the chicken pox, once you get the flu you can get it again. Same thing with the cold and this swine flu. If you're sick and get better, your personal immunity to a virus will probably last only for a few months.

If one doesn't want to get vaccinated, its their choice. Of course if one is to be vaccinated (for anything) they should meticulously and carefully look into the vaccine they're getting. It's correct to be cautious (I did a lot of research before getting the swine flu shot), but most people I hear who are against vaccination tend be on the extreme left side of bioluddism.

..bioluddism, lol.
The health minister of my country declined till now to get the shot, since he's over 50 years, and there's the conception that older generation got still some sort of immunity due to having some exposure to the Spanish flu. .. for sure, he can't be a bioluddist!

[eternaltraveler]

The swine flu has almost the same chance of killing you as the seasonal flu, but why take the risk and why suffer for 1-2 weeks being sick?

For example to get a livelong immunity to this strain?

I believe unlike the chicken pox, once you get the flu you can get it again. Same thing with the cold and this swine flu. If you're sick and get better, your personal immunity to a virus will probably last only for a few months.

If one doesn't want to get vaccinated, its their choice. Of course if one is to be vaccinated (for anything) they should meticulously and carefully look into the vaccine they're getting. It's correct to be cautious (I did a lot of research before getting the swine flu shot), but most people I hear who are against vaccination tend be on the extreme left side of bioluddism. Personally I think getting the swine flu is more riskier than getting the swine flu vaccine.

the primary reason you can get the flu again is because it is a different strain you are getting. The flu virus's surface features mutate and are rearrange rapidly

[Cyberbrain]

the primary reason you can get the flu again is because it is a different strain you are getting. The flu virus's surface features mutate and are rearrange rapidly

Yeah I should have mentioned that. That's also the reason why the seasonal flu vaccine changes every year or so I suppose.

[niner]

For example to get a livelong immunity to this strain?

It's not lifelong. It only lasts until the relevant T-cell population turns over.
I've heard the period of 3 years being thrown around.

It must last longer than that. There are a lot of examples of lifelong (or nearly so) immunity, like to measles, chicken pox, etc. The problem with flu is that it mutates easily, as ET mentioned. I'm not sure if cold viri mutate or if there are just a lot of them out there. Once you get one, you shouldn't get the same one again, at any rate.

[Luna]

Mom looked into getting the vaccine (in Israel), apparently it's still not open for anyone not in the risk group.

She is working with kids too (which is why she wanted to get it) - I'd imagine they should have let her get it automatically.

Why is it that some people almost never get sick in their life (people in my family maybe have a flu once in 5 years) and others get sick all the time (one of my friends is sick 3-5 times a year at least, always the same - coughing, cold, sore throat, shivering, high temp..)

I understand the immune system is different but how can we get immune before being affected with it?

Edited by Luna, 21 November 2009 - 06:17 AM.

[niner]

Why is it that some people almost never get sick in their life (people in my family maybe have a flu once in 5 years) and others get sick all the time (one of my friends is sick 3-5 times a year at least, always the same - coughing, cold, sore throat, shivering, high temp..)

Some guesses: Vitamin D status, relative amount of touching of possibly-contaminated objects or people, and one's own face. Amount and quality of handwashing. Length of time since last upper respiratory infection; too soon and you are much more susceptible because your barrier function is compromised. Number of infected people that you come into contact with. General nutrition and sleep quality. Genetics. Luck.

I understand the immune system is different but how can we get immune before being affected with it?

Get vaccinated...

Edited by niner, 21 November 2009 - 06:53 AM.

[lunarsolarpower]

Why is it that some people almost never get sick in their life

I understand the immune system is different but how can we get immune before being affected with it?

It goes way beyond that. I remember this video talking about how people in a city in Ireland only lived to be about 60 whether they took care of their health or not. They studied the epidemiologic history and found that a generation ago conditions had been very crowded and poor there. The result was that many diseases swept through the children and killed off those who did not have stronger than average immune systems. However this natural selection meant that their descendants suffered from higher levels of immune related diseases such as heart disease. This reduced the life expectancy below what would be expected merely looking at factors like occupation, diet and smoking rates.

In my own family there was a fairly recent evolutionary event in the opposite direction. My great grandmother was a sickly child with a weak immune system. When the flu of 1918 swept through it killed all her much healthier siblings and her mother but she survived most likely because her immune system did not fight as hard as theirs did.

[Luna]

So people with strong immune system usually live shorter?
Almost wants me to take an anti-immune pill! - but wait, don't they say those pills shorten lifespan?

[pamojja]

Does the Vaccine Matter?

All of which leaves open the question of what people should do when faced with a decision about whether to get themselves and their families vaccinated. There is little immediate danger from getting a seasonal flu shot, aside from a sore arm and mild flu-like symptoms. The safety of the swine flu vaccine remains to be seen. In the absence of better evidence, vaccines and antivirals must be viewed as only partial and uncertain defenses against the flu. And they may be mere talismans. By being afraid to do the proper studies now, we may be condemning ourselves to using treatments based on illusion and faith rather than sound science.

[Sillewater]

Why is it that some people almost never get sick in their life

I understand the immune system is different but how can we get immune before being affected with it?

It goes way beyond that. I remember this video talking about how people in a city in Ireland only lived to be about 60 whether they took care of their health or not. They studied the epidemiologic history and found that a generation ago conditions had been very crowded and poor there. The result was that many diseases swept through the children and killed off those who did not have stronger than average immune systems. However this natural selection meant that their descendants suffered from higher levels of immune related diseases such as heart disease. This reduced the life expectancy below what would be expected merely looking at factors like occupation, diet and smoking rates.

In my own family there was a fairly recent evolutionary event in the opposite direction. My great grandmother was a sickly child with a weak immune system. When the flu of 1918 swept through it killed all her much healthier siblings and her mother but she survived most likely because her immune system did not fight as hard as theirs did.

I remember reading about this. I remember it being attributed to the high inflammation levels that prevent the Irish that lived in slums from getting sick.

One thing I have noticed is that people in their 30/40's don't get as sick as younger ppl in their 20's. Maybe its because of the high inflammation levels in older ppl due to their crappy diet. Is there a study relating CRP levels to flu incidence?

[rwac]

One thing I have noticed is that people in their 30/40's don't get as sick as younger ppl in their 20's. Maybe its because of the high inflammation levels in older ppl due to their crappy diet. Is there a study relating CRP levels to flu incidence?

Did you mean higher inflammation levels in younger people ?
That makes a fair amount of sense.

[Sillewater]

No I mean higher amounts of inflammation in older ppl which keeps their immune system on guard, thus older people are not as sick as often. That's just what I notice. Like with parents, kids/teens will have the flu but the parents won't, and this matches what that video on those that live in the Irish Slums said

Those that lived in crowded slums have higher inflammation levels because since its so crowded infectious diseases spread like crazy. So those that live are those that did not die due to higher basal inflammation levels.

[eternaltraveler]

No I mean higher amounts of inflammation in older ppl which keeps their immune system on guard, thus older people are not as sick as often. That's just what I notice. Like with parents, kids/teens will have the flu but the parents won't, and this matches what that video on those that live in the Irish Slums said

Those that lived in crowded slums have higher inflammation levels because since its so crowded infectious diseases spread like crazy. So those that live are those that did not die due to higher basal inflammation levels.

thats because middle aged people have a larger T and B memory cell repertoire. All other (non immune memory) measures show that younger people are better at fighting off infection.

[Kutta]

Any thoughts on this one?

http://www.overcomin...hot-doubts.html

[SandJ]

I have recently compiled a blog giving links to some of the somewhat more 'mainstream' (I'm sure people will argue this with me) concerns voiced about the Swine Flu vaccine.

A piece that I think is exceptional and must be seen - Teresa Forcades, doctor in Public Health, Benedictine Nun and doctor of internal medicine who, amongst other things, discusses the admitted contamination this winter with live Bird Flu (high mortality, low infection) and common flu virus (low mortality, high infection rate i.e. = pandemic) in vaccines produced by Baxter.

Do go to the blog and look at these videos. She's a stunning, balanced speaker.

There are also links to Jane Burgermeister's website - a medical journalist who has filed criminal charges in Austria against Baxter and Avir Green Hills Biotechnology for producing and distributing contaminated bird flu vaccine material this winter, alleging that this was a deliberate act to cause a pandemic, and also to profit from that pandemic.