24 replies to this topic

[Skötkonung]

Check out these before and after photos, they are fairly impressive:
http://www.byrdaesth...fter-photos.htm

I was thinking of buying myself a facial resurfacing package as part of preventative care. I am mostly concerned about sun damage occurred in my youth. Now that I am in my mid to late 20s, I am beginning to see some fine lines on my forehead and around my eyes.

Do you think periodic laser resurfacing should be part of a longevity regimen?

[TheFountain]

Do you think periodic laser resurfacing should be part of a longevity regimen?

Well what is the draw back? How long does it take to 'heal' from the 'procedure'? I read on the URL you left that a picture was taken 6 months after the procedure. Does this mean because it took 6 months for the dermis to heal fully from it? If so I would think this is a major draw back as 6 months is no small chunk of a persons life.

[Skötkonung]

Do you think periodic laser resurfacing should be part of a longevity regimen?

Well what is the draw back? How long does it take to 'heal' from the 'procedure'? I read on the URL you left that a picture was taken 6 months after the procedure. Does this mean because it took 6 months for the dermis to heal fully from it? If so I would think this is a major draw back as 6 months is no small chunk of a persons life.

According to the articles I have read on the laser resurfacing, redness subsides within 7 days with skin texture vastly improved. Improvement continues over a period of 6 months.

Here are some photos immediatly after the treatment:
http://www.celibre.c.....cropeel).aspx

Edited by Skotkonung, 23 December 2009 - 12:01 AM.

[numbered]

Do you think periodic laser resurfacing should be part of a longevity regimen?

Well what is the draw back? How long does it take to 'heal' from the 'procedure'? I read on the URL you left that a picture was taken 6 months after the procedure. Does this mean because it took 6 months for the dermis to heal fully from it? If so I would think this is a major draw back as 6 months is no small chunk of a persons life.

According to the articles I have read on the laser resurfacing, redness subsides within 7 days with skin texture vastly improved. Improvement continues over a period of 6 months.

Here are some photos immediatly after the treatment:
http://www.celibre.c.....cropeel).aspx

What's the cost? looks a bit painful . How about doing botox instead?
that will take care of the lines you say. It probably costs less too .
or maybe you should try a glycolic acid cream-retinA-topical vitamin C combo .

[Skötkonung]

What's the cost? looks a bit painful . How about doing botox instead?
that will take care of the lines you say. It probably costs less too .
or maybe you should try a glycolic acid cream-retinA-topical vitamin C combo .

Yeah it may hurt for 6-7 days, but none of those solutions actually repair UV damage the way this treatment does. If you stop using either of those solutions, the fine lines return or worsen. I'd rather pay $3,000 to $5,000 for a one time treatment and have no fine lines or wrinkles. Then use retin-A to enhance the results.

[sentrysnipe]

Dermaroller > *

Done with Dermaroller / CIT via microneedling





(Tilt your monitor / laptop to darken the image)

I believe those results are not even completely done. Those are probably less than a year of doing it, and without LED.

Much more cost effective (:

[niner]

Check out these before and after photos, they are fairly impressive:
http://www.byrdaesth...fter-photos.htm

I was thinking of buying myself a facial resurfacing package as part of preventative care. I am mostly concerned about sun damage occurred in my youth. Now that I am in my mid to late 20s, I am beginning to see some fine lines on my forehead and around my eyes.

Do you think periodic laser resurfacing should be part of a longevity regimen?

Impressive photos, but we don't know about the ones that didn't work out so well. These are always going to be best-case scenarios. I think it's too early to do something like this. You can get a lot of improvement chemically over time. I don't think that there is a particular advantage to a laser treatment done at an early age. I notice that all the women shown here are light-complected. I wonder if that's important to it working well?

[immortali457]

Dermaroller > *

Done with Dermaroller / CIT via microneedling





(Tilt your monitor / laptop to darken the image)

I believe those results are not even completely done. Those are probably less than a year of doing it, and without LED.

Much more cost effective (:

Micro needling is interesting. Do you use one yourself? I know it's pretty popular over at essentialdayspa.com

[JLL]

It seems worth it if you're older, but you can most likely get rid of fine lines with retinoids - be they from sun damage or aging.

[sentrysnipe]

Dermaroller > *

Done with Dermaroller / CIT via microneedling





(Tilt your monitor / laptop to darken the image)

I believe those results are not even completely done. Those are probably less than a year of doing it, and without LED.

Much more cost effective (:

Micro needling is interesting. Do you use one yourself? I know it's pretty popular over at essentialdayspa.com

No my mom uses it. I ran across CIT during a stem cell search query awhile back. Pretty awesome

[immortali457]

August 14, 2009
Skin Rejuvenation: Percutaneous Collagen Induction (PCI) vs. Laser
Author: barryeppley
Skin rejuvenation is the most frequently requested cosmetic facial procedure, largely by women of ages 35 and above. As the skin starts to look dull and develop those first few wrinkles, doing something to help the skin look better becomes a consideration. The term, skin rejuvenation, encompasses a wide variety of office-based procedures that all aim to make the skin look fresher and reduce wrinkles.


Most commonly, the most effective skin rejuvenation methods include those that exfoliate (remove) the outer layers and allow it to heal with a new outer layer. These methods include traditional chemical peels and different forms of laser resurfacing. All of these procedures can be done in a wide variety of depths, which are individually chosen based on the patient’s tolerance for recovery and the speed at which they want to see improvement.


Laser and peels, however, remove skin layers through a thermal (heat or acidic) process which induces an injury. Healing of that injury results in a new outer skin layer but is also responsible for the recovery seen. (redness, peeling, tenderness, etc.) Enter the concept of percutaneous collagen induction (PCI) therapy, a different method of skin rejuvenation that uses a somewhat different approach. This procedure uses a rolling device with protruding needles to create thousands of tiny punctures into the outer layers of the skin. (very much like aerating your lawn) These microscopic injuries induce the release of growth factors and cytokines, recognized wound healing agents, that help to stimulate new collagen regeneration. Because the ‘cuts’ are done without heat, they heal faster with less recovery than any thermal method.


PCI is best compared to fractional laser resurfacing is that it creates tiny holes or cuts in the skin. Fractional laser procedures makes these cuts with the heat of the laser which leaves behind a wider zone of dead tissue (estimated to be 3 to 8 times wider than the hole) which must also heal. The ‘cauterized’ hole edges theoretically are sealed from releasing cell factors that are helpful in the regenerative process. In essence, some scar is left behind from the process.. PCI, conversely, simply clefts the skin without any heat, which more readily allows valuable cell factors to be released and work on the exposed collagen, resulting in regeneration with less scar healing.


The debate between a high-tech approach (fractional laser) and a low-tech approach (PCI) for skin rejuvenation is ongoing and may become more hotly (no pun intended!) contested in the future. Until a direct comparison in patients is done, this debate will be based on conjecture, extrapolated science, and economics until then. Those issues aside, I find PCI theoretically appealing and with some real clinical benefits. And when I talk about clinical benefits, I am not talking about which is better in terms of skin rejuvenation.


PCI offers less recovery than any laser method and that, for some patients, is a real plus. Many patients would embark on more aggressive skin rejuvenation programs if they didn’t have persistent redness and peeling…not to mention the discomfort of the procedure. (and all laser procedures involve some discomfort, no matter how it is managed, due to the heat) Furthermore, because PCI does not strip off the outer layer of the skin, it offers an advantage of safety and virtual elimination of complications. You can’t have a burn injury if you aren’t doing any burning. This indicates that PCI can be used anywhere on the body unlike laser methods. Also, with no outer layer of skin removed, even partially, this exposes the patient to no risk for skin sensitivity after and has no potential for any pigment changes. (it can be used on all skin types)


Several non-burning questions remain, however, on the effectiveness of PCI? How many treatments are needed to see improvement? What is the best depth of needles and the spacing of them on the wheel? What topical products should ideally be used afterward? The science of PCI remains a fertile area for investigation and much of this information is not yet known. The role of PCI in skin rejuvenation has not been defined, unlike laser technology. This is largely a function of economics. The large number of lasers that are marketed and exist in clinical practices provides a disincentive for the PCI bandwagon.


Despite these drawbacks, I remain both intrigued and encouraged about PCI in my Indianapolis plastic surgery and spa practice. PCI and laser treatments are not mutually exclusive. Light laser micropeeling (less than 50 microns) combined with PCI may capture the best of both worlds.


Dr. Barry Eppley

[zorba990]

Maybe you can give it a try and report back...

http://www.clearskin...n_needling.html
http://www.clearskin.../roller_96.html

[immortali457]

Ebay sells rollers that have a good reputation. (DR.ROLLER)

[Skötkonung]

Check out these before and after photos, they are fairly impressive:
http://www.byrdaesth...fter-photos.htm

I was thinking of buying myself a facial resurfacing package as part of preventative care. I am mostly concerned about sun damage occurred in my youth. Now that I am in my mid to late 20s, I am beginning to see some fine lines on my forehead and around my eyes.

Do you think periodic laser resurfacing should be part of a longevity regimen?

Impressive photos, but we don't know about the ones that didn't work out so well. These are always going to be best-case scenarios. I think it's too early to do something like this. You can get a lot of improvement chemically over time. I don't think that there is a particular advantage to a laser treatment done at an early age. I notice that all the women shown here are light-complected. I wonder if that's important to it working well?

That's right, the laser is impeded by skin pigment. Furthermore, if you have a darker skin tone, laser treatment could negatively affect pigment distribution (blotchy skin tone) or leave hyper pigmented areas. But for those with a very light complexion, such as myself, it is supposed to work greatly. If I had darker skin, I would probably have less UV damage.

Some questions I have about the roller:
- Does it improve pore size / refine skin tone / remove physical imperfection caused through aging?
- Do the results last if the rolling activity is ceased?

The reason I am interested in the laser as opposed to only chemical peels or other topical treatments is because the results are permanent and immediate. Anti-aging products are great, I use a few daily, but I hate sinking tons of money into some sub-pharmaceutical grade treatment with only limited or temporary results. I want, as I'm sure we all do, meaningful and permanent reduction of the appearance of aging.

[jrxopq]

Hey Skotkonung,

Based on a lot of Web research I did, I concluded that the MiXto SX fractional CO2 laser was better than an erbium laser system. (This is, of course, subjective, so look around for yourself.) But since I couldn't find any day-by-day progress blog, I created one myself. (What better to do while sitting at home, nursing one's laser burns?)

http://mixtosx.blogs...ng-day-one.html

Good luck. Don't overdo it, but I do think that some preventative maintenance is a good idea, while we're still young, and more capable of solving latent medical and aesthetic problems.

[sentrysnipe]

Check out these before and after photos, they are fairly impressive:
http://www.byrdaesth...fter-photos.htm
I was thinking of buying myself a facial resurfacing package as part of preventative care. I am mostly concerned about sun damage occurred in my youth. Now that I am in my mid to late 20s, I am beginning to see some fine lines on my forehead and around my eyes.
Do you think periodic laser resurfacing should be part of a longevity regimen?

Impressive photos, but we don't know about the ones that didn't work out so well. These are always going to be best-case scenarios. I think it's too early to do something like this. You can get a lot of improvement chemically over time. I don't think that there is a particular advantage to a laser treatment done at an early age. I notice that all the women shown here are light-complected. I wonder if that's important to it working well?

That's right, the laser is impeded by skin pigment. Furthermore, if you have a darker skin tone, laser treatment could negatively affect pigment distribution (blotchy skin tone) or leave hyper pigmented areas. But for those with a very light complexion, such as myself, it is supposed to work greatly. If I had darker skin, I would probably have less UV damage.
Some questions I have about the roller:
- Does it improve pore size / refine skin tone / remove physical imperfection caused through aging?
- Do the results last if the rolling activity is ceased?
The reason I am interested in the laser as opposed to only chemical peels or other topical treatments is because the results are permanent and immediate. Anti-aging products are great, I use a few daily, but I hate sinking tons of money into some sub-pharmaceutical grade treatment with only limited or temporary results. I want, as I'm sure we all do, meaningful and permanent reduction of the appearance of aging.

1. Please define "physical imperfection" due to aging for me. You mean liver spots?
2. Yes.

[Skötkonung]

Hey Skotkonung,

Based on a lot of Web research I did, I concluded that the MiXto SX fractional CO2 laser was better than an erbium laser system. (This is, of course, subjective, so look around for yourself.) But since I couldn't find any day-by-day progress blog, I created one myself. (What better to do while sitting at home, nursing one's laser burns?)

http://mixtosx.blogs...ng-day-one.html

Good luck. Don't overdo it, but I do think that some preventative maintenance is a good idea, while we're still young, and more capable of solving latent medical and aesthetic problems.

Thanks for the great read. I am looking at getting a laser ablation for exactly the same reason you had yours done. It looks like your skin tone is a bit darker than my own, so I am encouraged that it worked well on you.

It would have been interesting to do UV photography before and after to see if the underlying sun damage was reduced by the procedure. How was the redness reduced since your last post?

[Skötkonung]

Check out these before and after photos, they are fairly impressive:
http://www.byrdaesth...fter-photos.htm
I was thinking of buying myself a facial resurfacing package as part of preventative care. I am mostly concerned about sun damage occurred in my youth. Now that I am in my mid to late 20s, I am beginning to see some fine lines on my forehead and around my eyes.
Do you think periodic laser resurfacing should be part of a longevity regimen?

Impressive photos, but we don't know about the ones that didn't work out so well. These are always going to be best-case scenarios. I think it's too early to do something like this. You can get a lot of improvement chemically over time. I don't think that there is a particular advantage to a laser treatment done at an early age. I notice that all the women shown here are light-complected. I wonder if that's important to it working well?

That's right, the laser is impeded by skin pigment. Furthermore, if you have a darker skin tone, laser treatment could negatively affect pigment distribution (blotchy skin tone) or leave hyper pigmented areas. But for those with a very light complexion, such as myself, it is supposed to work greatly. If I had darker skin, I would probably have less UV damage.
Some questions I have about the roller:
- Does it improve pore size / refine skin tone / remove physical imperfection caused through aging?
- Do the results last if the rolling activity is ceased?
The reason I am interested in the laser as opposed to only chemical peels or other topical treatments is because the results are permanent and immediate. Anti-aging products are great, I use a few daily, but I hate sinking tons of money into some sub-pharmaceutical grade treatment with only limited or temporary results. I want, as I'm sure we all do, meaningful and permanent reduction of the appearance of aging.

1. Please define "physical imperfection" due to aging for me. You mean liver spots?
2. Yes.

UV damage as recorded by UV photography. Actinic keratosis.

[jrxopq]

Thanks for the great read. I am looking at getting a laser ablation for exactly the same reason you had yours done. It looks like your skin tone is a bit darker than my own, so I am encouraged that it worked well on you.

It would have been interesting to do UV photography before and after to see if the underlying sun damage was reduced by the procedure. How was the redness reduced since your last post?

Well, to answer your question, I'm now six days after treatment, and the lasered skin has completely flaked off, and the redness has diminished to pink. The only negative is that I'm fighting the most aggressive acne breakout that I've had since being a teenager. (With my longevity-oriented diet, I've hardly had a pimple on my face since I was 20.) As I've detailed in the blog, I've found a few substances, in addition to dietary changes, which are helping, but I'm probably a few weeks away from my normal skin tone. This is what I look like now:

http://mixtosx.blogs...-day-seven.html

Note the "pimple" on my left cheek, which actually appears to be a laser blister, a rare side effect. I'm concerned that it won't heal as well as the acne. On the other hand, there are plenty of ways that I can diminish it. I'll worry about that after I nuke the acne.

As to UV damage, there is no question that the MiXto SX helped. Mind you, I've had only one treatment, but my "feathers" beneath the sides my eyes are gone. My forehead wrinkles are diminished to the point where they were at least 10 or 12 years ago. My actinic keratoses, especially on the forehead, are gone or heavily dimished. Tentatively, assuming that I can kill the side effects, it was well worth it! I'll keep posting to my blog for a while, in case it all goes horribly wrong...

Edited by jrxopq, 03 January 2010 - 04:33 AM.

[Ron]

It's an interesting read. Can I ask your age?

[Logan]

I wouldn't use any of the lasers at this point. There will be much better less invasive treatments in 5 or 10 years.

There is the use of platelet rich plasma. Not sure if any of you have heard of PRP being used for cosmetic purposes.

[Skötkonung]

I wouldn't use any of the lasers at this point. There will be much better less invasive treatments in 5 or 10 years.

There is the use of platelet rich plasma. Not sure if any of you have heard of PRP being used for cosmetic purposes.

Yes I have heard about it, but only in context of PRP assisted fractional CO2 laser skin rejuvenation. PRP, on its own, seems like an overly expensive alternative, with few of the dramatic benefits.

[Skötkonung]

Note the "pimple" on my left cheek, which actually appears to be a laser blister, a rare side effect. I'm concerned that it won't heal as well as the acne. On the other hand, there are plenty of ways that I can diminish it. I'll worry about that after I nuke the acne.

As to UV damage, there is no question that the MiXto SX helped. Mind you, I've had only one treatment, but my "feathers" beneath the sides my eyes are gone. My forehead wrinkles are diminished to the point where they were at least 10 or 12 years ago. My actinic keratoses, especially on the forehead, are gone or heavily dimished. Tentatively, assuming that I can kill the side effects, it was well worth it! I'll keep posting to my blog for a while, in case it all goes horribly wrong...

I wouldn't worry too much about the acne, it will likely subside in another week or two. If it doesn't, a prescription antibiotic might help. The laser likely caused mass exfoliation of your skin and the dead skin cells are plugging your pores. Perhaps the laser also disrupted the balance of bacteria on your skin. All of those things are easily rectified, and will just take time to return to normal.

Honestly, the acne on your skin is very small. Most people with significant acne have much larger areas of inflammation around each lesion.

Have you tried applying matcha green tea to your face?

[Logan]

I wouldn't use any of the lasers at this point. There will be much better less invasive treatments in 5 or 10 years.

There is the use of platelet rich plasma. Not sure if any of you have heard of PRP being used for cosmetic purposes.

Yes I have heard about it, but only in context of PRP assisted fractional CO2 laser skin rejuvenation. PRP, on its own, seems like an overly expensive alternative, with few of the dramatic benefits.

Not overly expensive at all and it has been shown to have impressive results. I believe it is 500 dollars per treatment on average. Have you looked it up online?

There is a place called the Skin Center in Pennsylvania that performs PRP treatments.

I would do something like PRP before ever thinking twice about the very invasive fractional CO2. Your skin will never be the same, in a bad way. You will need to protect your face from the sun more than ever before. Your skin may never have the same sensitivity to touch. IMO, fractional CO2 is a huge scam. Dermatologists and the companies that make the lasers try to fool people into thinking they are doing something good to their skin, when in reality, they are really permanently damaging their skin. Just think about it. We have not advanced to the point of being able to re-create the normal healthy skin we once had. These lasers are actually worse than the older CO2 laser because they go so deep, changing the DNA and structure of your skin. The older CO2 lasers ablate top layers of the skin, they do not go deep into the skin and make changes the way that these newer fractional lasers do.

[TheFountain]

Skot if you're afraid of downtime you could try a lactic acid peel. By all accounts a series of 4-5 peels over the course of about a month significantly reduces fine lines. And the best part about it is there is no downtime. All you have to do is do the peel for 2-4 minutes, wash your face and then go about your business. But start with a 30 or 40% peel first, as skin types vary.