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Ten months of research condensed - A total newbies guide to nootropics


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#31 babcock

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Posted 06 January 2010 - 04:25 PM

Quick question bmud, do you take the piracetam powder or capsules?

Thanks.

#32 The Likud Is Behind It

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Posted 06 January 2010 - 04:33 PM

Quick question bmud, do you take the piracetam powder or capsules?

Thanks.


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#33 Solarclimax

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Posted 06 January 2010 - 05:02 PM

Thanks for the information, great thread, will definitely be following your regime at some point.

I noticed this about Whole Milk. Glycosphingolipids are lipids with single sugar molecules attached found in cell membranes, especially in the brain. They also protect against gastrointestinal infections, especially in infants and children. Whole milk is an adequate source, especially human milk. Fat digestion of phospholipids and other lipids makes up very minor, but sometimes important, parts of the building blocks for tissues. These special lipids are usually made by the body and diet is not the major source.

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#34 The Likud Is Behind It

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Posted 06 January 2010 - 07:10 PM

I noticed this about Whole Milk. Glycosphingolipids are lipids with single sugar molecules attached found in cell membranes, especially in the brain. They also protect against gastrointestinal infections, especially in infants and children. Whole milk is an adequate source, especially human milk. Fat digestion of phospholipids and other lipids makes up very minor, but sometimes important, parts of the building blocks for tissues. These special lipids are usually made by the body and diet is not the major source.


Interesting. Thanks for this. I drink skim milk the rest of the day, but now I'm switching to whole milk all the time. Great stuff.

#35 spider

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Posted 06 January 2010 - 08:34 PM

I noticed this about Whole Milk. Glycosphingolipids are lipids with single sugar molecules attached found in cell membranes, especially in the brain. They also protect against gastrointestinal infections, especially in infants and children. Whole milk is an adequate source, especially human milk. Fat digestion of phospholipids and other lipids makes up very minor, but sometimes important, parts of the building blocks for tissues. These special lipids are usually made by the body and diet is not the major source.


Interesting. Thanks for this. I drink skim milk the rest of the day, but now I'm switching to whole milk all the time. Great stuff.


A liitle sidetrack:
I switched from free-range milk to soya drink (in English soya milk?). I did this chiefly out of a ethical reason. For me, it tastes even beter than milk and the nutritional content is great.

#36 nito

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Posted 06 January 2010 - 10:13 PM

So the new thing is to take CDP with whole milk instead of water? Wish i ad tried this earlier because i finished a whole bottle with water allready.

#37 rwac

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Posted 06 January 2010 - 11:15 PM

A liitle sidetrack:
I switched from free-range milk to soya drink (in English soya milk?). I did this chiefly out of a ethical reason. For me, it tastes even beter than milk and the nutritional content is great.


Hey, soy is not so good for guys. It's an weak estrogen mimic, and potentially causes thyroid problems.
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#38 Solarclimax

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Posted 07 January 2010 - 12:42 AM

I wouldn't drink whole milk all the time. I drink a glass of wholemilk on a morning (as from today) and a glass of skimmed milk on a night, with protein and cottage cheese.
The idea of skimmed milk with protein and cottage cheese before bed, is to try get a slow release of protein whilst i sleep. I do this to aid my weight/cardio training though not for any nootropic benefits.

#39 Shay

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Posted 07 January 2010 - 04:05 AM

Can you post what dosage(s) you took of each, and at what time(s) of day ?


Lion's Mane ~500mg in the morning ~500mg at bedtime to get an even distribution of constant NGF release
400mg Pyritinol in the morning
800mg CDPcholine in the morning
5g fish oil in the morning
150mg picamilon in the morning
500 mg phosphatydlserine matrix with 100mg PS, also including some phosphatydlcholine
1g sulbutiamine in the morning with whole milk
750mg aniracetam in the morning with whole milk
1g bacopa in the morning
4g piracetam in the morning

I forgot to include that I also take inositol. It's not considered a nootropic, but it was orignally considered a B vitamin. It lost its status as a vitamin because it was found that the body could synthesize some of it. Regardless, it plays a huge role in the normalization of brain function in general. It is also incorporated into phosphatydlinositol, which is a part of cell membranes as much as phosphatydlcholine and phosphatydlserine. I can't claim it's a nootropic, but I take it for the same reasons I take nootropics, whole brain health. I take 4g inositol in the morning with my bacopa.


bmud, I've been reading all over the forums to better understand the intricacies of the various items in your list. I noticed in this thread that you said:

I took piracetam and lecithin a couple years ago. I've since dropped the piracetam and take AlphaGPC for choline. However, I never noticed a difference when playing with the timing of the two. I ended up taking them like I took all my supplements, at the same time in the morning. It worked as good as anything.


What changed in regards to piracetam?

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#40 spider

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Posted 07 January 2010 - 06:20 AM

A liitle sidetrack:
I switched from free-range milk to soya drink (in English soya milk?). I did this chiefly out of a ethical reason. For me, it tastes even beter than milk and the nutritional content is great.


Hey, soy is not so good for guys. It's an weak estrogen mimic, and potentially causes thyroid problems.


:~ Estrogen?!!! LOL.

Thanks for your concern, Rwac. I think that if you use it in normal amounts that these problems will be non-existent.

#41 hamishm00

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Posted 07 January 2010 - 06:25 AM

Yup, great thread.

I also recommend ALCAR Arginate for neurite growth which is probably comparable to supplementing with NGF itself. Not proven in vivo yet, but the in vitro studies are promising.

#42 nito

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Posted 07 January 2010 - 11:54 AM

Yup, great thread.

I also recommend ALCAR Arginate for neurite growth which is probably comparable to supplementing with NGF itself. Not proven in vivo yet, but the in vitro studies are promising.



Some say you should take this with alpha lipholic acid. But is there one that has both mixed together as a pill or you have to take separate? I tend to miss a pill here and there sometimes so it would be easier having one that contains all in one, like a multi for example.
thanks

#43 Esoparagon

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Posted 07 January 2010 - 05:43 PM

I don't drink milk or eat cheese. I guess I could make some cashew milk or buy some rice milk. Cashew milk would have more fat than rice milk I think. I guess I could always just eat a few nuts when I take them.

Edited by Esoparagon, 07 January 2010 - 05:44 PM.


#44 Esoparagon

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Posted 08 January 2010 - 06:32 PM

I've found sources for most of them except:
CDPCholine
Picamilon
Aniracetam

Unfortunately... I have to pay with paypal and they have to be vcaps and they have to ship to Australia so I'm limited. :~

Edited by Esoparagon, 08 January 2010 - 06:38 PM.


#45 mustardseed41

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Posted 08 January 2010 - 06:42 PM

Would DMAE work ok as a substitute for CDP choline?

#46 Esoparagon

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Posted 08 January 2010 - 07:32 PM

Ok. I've sourced and priced the nootropics I need.

What do you think of this stack taken daily?

CDP-Choline - 750 mg
Bacopa 1100 mg
Phosphatidylserine 150 mg
Lion's Mane - 1000mg
Pyritinol - 400 mg
Piracetam - 4000 mg
Flax seed oil - 5 g
----
Plus all of this which comes in the BrainWave Plus supplement that I need for CDP-Choline. It was the only one I could source.

Acetyl-L-Carnitine 500 mg
L-Glutamine 400 mg
Choline Bitartrate 200 mg
Ginkgo (Leaves) Extract (standardized to 24% Flavonglycosides and 6% Terpene Lactones) 120 mg
Eleuthero (Root) Extract (15:1) 100 mg
Asian Ginseng (Root) Extract (standardized to 7% Ginsenosides) 100 mg
Ashwagandha (Root) Extract 100 mg
Gotu Kola (Leaves) Powder 50 mg
Royal Jelly 100 mg
Vinpocetine 10 mg
Huperzine A 100 mcg
Thymus 100 mg
Dimethylaminoethanol (DMAE) Bitartrate 100 mg

This comes to $125.97 AUD for a month if I calculated everything correctly. That's $4.20 a day or $29.40 a week.

Edited by Esoparagon, 08 January 2010 - 07:34 PM.


#47 HMan

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Posted 08 January 2010 - 08:26 PM

Ok. I've sourced and priced the nootropics I need.

What do you think of this stack taken daily?

CDP-Choline - 750 mg
Bacopa 1100 mg
Phosphatidylserine 150 mg
Lion's Mane - 1000mg
Pyritinol - 400 mg
Piracetam - 4000 mg
Flax seed oil - 5 g
----
Plus all of this which comes in the BrainWave Plus supplement that I need for CDP-Choline. It was the only one I could source.

Acetyl-L-Carnitine 500 mg
L-Glutamine 400 mg
Choline Bitartrate 200 mg
Ginkgo (Leaves) Extract (standardized to 24% Flavonglycosides and 6% Terpene Lactones) 120 mg
Eleuthero (Root) Extract (15:1) 100 mg
Asian Ginseng (Root) Extract (standardized to 7% Ginsenosides) 100 mg
Ashwagandha (Root) Extract 100 mg
Gotu Kola (Leaves) Powder 50 mg
Royal Jelly 100 mg
Vinpocetine 10 mg
Huperzine A 100 mcg
Thymus 100 mg
Dimethylaminoethanol (DMAE) Bitartrate 100 mg

This comes to $125.97 AUD for a month if I calculated everything correctly. That's $4.20 a day or $29.40 a week.


Dude, if you can afford that then go for it. However, I don't think that you need Royal Jelly, Gotu Kola, Eleuthero (if you are already taking asian ginseng).

#48 Esoparagon

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Posted 08 January 2010 - 08:30 PM

Ok. I've sourced and priced the nootropics I need.

What do you think of this stack taken daily?

CDP-Choline - 750 mg
Bacopa 1100 mg
Phosphatidylserine 150 mg
Lion's Mane - 1000mg
Pyritinol - 400 mg
Piracetam - 4000 mg
Flax seed oil - 5 g
----
Plus all of this which comes in the BrainWave Plus supplement that I need for CDP-Choline. It was the only one I could source.

Acetyl-L-Carnitine 500 mg
L-Glutamine 400 mg
Choline Bitartrate 200 mg
Ginkgo (Leaves) Extract (standardized to 24% Flavonglycosides and 6% Terpene Lactones) 120 mg
Eleuthero (Root) Extract (15:1) 100 mg
Asian Ginseng (Root) Extract (standardized to 7% Ginsenosides) 100 mg
Ashwagandha (Root) Extract 100 mg
Gotu Kola (Leaves) Powder 50 mg
Royal Jelly 100 mg
Vinpocetine 10 mg
Huperzine A 100 mcg
Thymus 100 mg
Dimethylaminoethanol (DMAE) Bitartrate 100 mg

This comes to $125.97 AUD for a month if I calculated everything correctly. That's $4.20 a day or $29.40 a week.


Dude, if you can afford that then go for it. However, I don't think that you need Royal Jelly, Gotu Kola, Eleuthero (if you are already taking asian ginseng).


It's all in BrainWave Plus (5 veggie capsules a day) so I can't take it out unless I find a different source for CDP-Choline. Thanks for the advice. I think I might do this for 6 months a see what happens.

#49 babcock

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Posted 08 January 2010 - 08:34 PM

Ok. I've sourced and priced the nootropics I need.

What do you think of this stack taken daily?

CDP-Choline - 750 mg
Bacopa 1100 mg
Phosphatidylserine 150 mg
Lion's Mane - 1000mg
Pyritinol - 400 mg
Piracetam - 4000 mg
Flax seed oil - 5 g
----
Plus all of this which comes in the BrainWave Plus supplement that I need for CDP-Choline. It was the only one I could source.

Acetyl-L-Carnitine 500 mg
L-Glutamine 400 mg
Choline Bitartrate 200 mg
Ginkgo (Leaves) Extract (standardized to 24% Flavonglycosides and 6% Terpene Lactones) 120 mg
Eleuthero (Root) Extract (15:1) 100 mg
Asian Ginseng (Root) Extract (standardized to 7% Ginsenosides) 100 mg
Ashwagandha (Root) Extract 100 mg
Gotu Kola (Leaves) Powder 50 mg
Royal Jelly 100 mg
Vinpocetine 10 mg
Huperzine A 100 mcg
Thymus 100 mg
Dimethylaminoethanol (DMAE) Bitartrate 100 mg

This comes to $125.97 AUD for a month if I calculated everything correctly. That's $4.20 a day or $29.40 a week.


Dude, if you can afford that then go for it. However, I don't think that you need Royal Jelly, Gotu Kola, Eleuthero (if you are already taking asian ginseng).


It's all in BrainWave Plus (5 veggie capsules a day) so I can't take it out unless I find a different source for CDP-Choline. Thanks for the advice. I think I might do this for 6 months a see what happens.


This is what I plan on using to get my CDP Choline. They have international shipping too I believe.

http://www.iherb.com...psules/112?at=0

#50 Dorho

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Posted 08 January 2010 - 08:45 PM

Dude, if you can afford that then go for it. However, I don't think that you need Royal Jelly, Gotu Kola, Eleuthero (if you are already taking asian ginseng).


It's all in BrainWave Plus (5 veggie capsules a day) so I can't take it out unless I find a different source for CDP-Choline. Thanks for the advice. I think I might do this for 6 months a see what happens.

I've read that Royal Jelly contains estrogen mimicking compounds. I wouldn't recommed it to men.

#51 nito

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Posted 08 January 2010 - 09:10 PM

This one don't look bad, look at what it contains along with CDP choline. http://www.iherb.com...psules/350?at=1

#52 Esoparagon

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 02:29 AM

Maybe I sound fussy but I'm a vegetarian and those capsules unfortunately have gelatin. The idea of eating crushed up pig hide, cartilage and bone now is just repulsive to me physically and ethically. So I only go for vcaps.

My criteria is:

Ship to Australia
Some what affordable - I have money but I'm not going to pay $50 for shipping or anything ridiculous
Accepts paypal
Vegetarian capsules or simply powder

I have a question. Would it be ok to simply use Choline Bitartrate powder instead of CDP-Choline? I've heard that you can and that it still works with piracetam. This would be a lot cheaper for me too.

I just calculated. With Phosphatydlserine 100 mg a day seperately and using Choline bitartrate instead of CDP-Choline, it would cost me $59 AUD a month instead of $125 AUD. This brings it to a trifling $1.70 a day or $11.90 a week. I think I'll try this first.

This would make my new proposed stack:

Choline Bitartrate - 750 mg
Bacopa - 1100 mg
Phosphatidylserine - 100 mg
Lion's Mane - 1000mg
Pyritinol - 400 mg
Piracetam - 4000 mg
Flax seed oil - 5 g

This would also get rid of all the other ingredients such as Royal Jelly and so on.

Edited by Esoparagon, 09 January 2010 - 02:43 AM.


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#53 rwac

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 03:55 AM

Choline Bitartrate - 750 mg
Bacopa - 1100 mg
Phosphatidylserine - 100 mg
Lion's Mane - 1000mg
Pyritinol - 400 mg
Piracetam - 4000 mg
Flax seed oil - 5 g


Choline Bitartrate is an ok source of choline, but it's likely not nootropic.
Phosphatidylserine is good for reducing cortisol levels, and that's about it.

#54 HMan

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 03:16 PM

I think that choline bitartrate is a fine replacement for CDP Choline, you will just have to take a bit more. I have been using Choline Bitartrate for the past week at 1 teaspoon in the morning which is approximately 1.5g of choline, and have noticed positive results, i.e. less brain fog, clearer thinking, improved memory and multitasking. There are several other people on this forum who use Choline Bitartrate as their choline source too.

Here is a YouTube video of another guy who uses Choline Bitartrate for their choline source:

Edited by HMan, 09 January 2010 - 03:29 PM.


#55 Esoparagon

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 03:50 PM

I think that choline bitartrate is a fine replacement for CDP Choline, you will just have to take a bit more. I have been using Choline Bitartrate for the past week at 1 teaspoon in the morning which is approximately 1.5g of choline, and have noticed positive results, i.e. less brain fog, clearer thinking, improved memory and multitasking. There are several other people on this forum who use Choline Bitartrate as their choline source too.

Here is a YouTube video of another guy who uses Choline Bitartrate for their choline source:


Thank you! ;) I've bought some.

#56 The Likud Is Behind It

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 06:14 PM

Choline Bitartrate is an ok source of choline, but it's likely not nootropic.
Phosphatidylserine is good for reducing cortisol levels, and that's about it.


I remember taking PS for the first time in college and noticing a very noticeable effect. It doesn't produce the same effect in me any more, but I attribute this to normal PS levels. I continue to take it based on my convincing first experience, even if this is not a scientifically valid reason to take it.

Broader claims are found on http://www.phosphatidylserine.net/

I'm looking for research studies to support it, but after 30 minutes of google searches, the best I could come up with was this page:
http://www.discount-...idyl_serine.htm

Phosphadidyl serine does all this through the following actions: PS stimulates the release of dopamine (a mood regulator that also controls physical sensations and movement), increases the production of acetylcholine (necessary for learning and memory), enhances brain glucose metabolism (the fuel used for brain activity), reduces levels of cortisol (a stress hormone), and boosts the activity of nerve growth factor, which oversees the health of cholinergic neurons.

The nerve cell membrane is the site where molecules of sodium and potassium exchange electrons, causing the electrical impulse to be generated. This bioelectric current then travels along the membrane to trigger the release of neurotransmitters. These are the chemical messengers that cross synapses (gaps between nerve cells) to relay information to neighboring nerve cells. This sets other electrical currents in motion -- along thousands of other nerve cells. This happens billions of times each second, and is how the brain and nerves coordinate and communicate with the rest of the body.

Phosphatidyl Serine has a very important function in the nerve cell membrane. As a key bio-structural molecule, PS provides vital support for the membrane proteins that enable nerve cells to communicate and grow.


Also, the only reason I use CDPcholine is to produce the uridine + choline + DHA synthesis of phosphatydlcholine. I also remember reading research on this forum where CDPcholine is uniquely beneficial at actually increasing the number of acetylcholine receptors when megadosed. I'm hoping that the lowlevel use of CDPcholine over time achieves a benefit similar to a week long megadose.

If I weren't using CDPcholine, I would probably use centrophenoxine for lipofuscin removal.

Edited by bmud, 09 January 2010 - 06:18 PM.


#57 The Likud Is Behind It

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 06:25 PM

bmud, I've been reading all over the forums to better understand the intricacies of the various items in your list. I noticed in this thread that you said:

I took piracetam and lecithin a couple years ago. I've since dropped the piracetam and take AlphaGPC for choline. However, I never noticed a difference when playing with the timing of the two. I ended up taking them like I took all my supplements, at the same time in the morning. It worked as good as anything.


What changed in regards to piracetam?


A number of years ago I was sort of playing with nootropics. I bought some choline, some piracetam, and http://www.smart-dru...t/Get-Smart.htm Get Smart pills. I think it used a different formula back then. I basically stopped taking everything for a long time because I didn't think the effects were powerful enough to justify commitment.

But then I started taking aniracetam, which has a much more noticable effect for me. As long as I'm taking aniracetam and my other nootropics, which do have a noticeable effect, then I purchased piracetam as well to see if the synergistic effect is worth it. I believe it is, especially given how cheap piracetam is in relation to the remainder of my supplements.

I've been playing with nootropics off and on for years. I didn't get serious about doing comprehensive research in to a designed daily stack until about 10 months ago. If you look at my first post, I was experimenting with everything including NAC, di-methyl-glycine, SAMe, phenylalainine, taurine, etc.

Edited by bmud, 09 January 2010 - 06:26 PM.


#58 The Likud Is Behind It

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 06:29 PM

Some say you should take this with alpha lipholic acid. But is there one that has both mixed together as a pill or you have to take separate? I tend to miss a pill here and there sometimes so it would be easier having one that contains all in one, like a multi for example.
thanks


Is there any research finding that ALA has nootropic effects, or do people take it only on the theory that it's a potent antioxident? I take green tea extract and plan to use only that as my first line antioxidant.

#59 Dorho

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 07:30 PM

Also, the only reason I use CDPcholine is to produce the uridine + choline + DHA synthesis of phosphatydlcholine.

What if I supplemented with phosphatidylcholine derived from soy? Is it so different from human brain phosphatidylcholine that it's useless?

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#60 ryhan

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 07:46 PM

A number of years ago I was sort of playing with nootropics. I bought some choline, some piracetam, and http://www.smart-dru...t/Get-Smart.htm Get Smart pills. I think it used a different formula back then. I basically stopped taking everything for a long time because I didn't think the effects were powerful enough to justify commitment.


They have changed the formula recently, it looks better.
Do you think the new get smart would make a good beginners stack? It has most of the noots you mentioned in one handy tablet, at slightly lower doses.




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