LONGECITY

guys, some of the lions mane sites listed just "looked" like not top quality, and did not seem to emphasize how pure, free of contaminents etc. they were.

I'm looking to buy lions mane in bulk from an expert in mushrooms site, that looks high quality. this is the Kind of company that seems to be top notch, I have some of their Kelp powder. http://www.starwest-botanicals.com/

by the way I have no way of knowing if those other sites for Mane are not top quality, but for my condition I can't afford to take chances at this time.

Sorry Mushroom Harvest looked good, and described the extraction process, purity etc. I seem to get a good mental boost off of Lions mane, I'm taking some powdered form, but I can't be bothered to remember the company right now, only it was expensive for just a small bottle.

So in my case I really do have serious cognitive damage I'm trying to reverse....
Edited by dfowler, 27 November 2011 - 05:46 AM.

I read the nicotine stimulating cancer growth studies...I think the worry is worth looking into. If someone can chime in who knows a lot about NGF, and relation to cancer that would be important, although the topic was discussed before....

"Some Pro-NGF substances have been shown to increase mortality in Humans at a statistically significant level."

Can you elaborate? I'm trying to both get off nicotine, and increase neurogenesis. Cancer does run in my family, and I'm one of those in desperate need of increasing cognition, protecting etc, but obviously want to decrease my odds of getting cancer.

I've started vaping with e cigarettes, and am going to quit...I would like to know what NGF substances to avoid, but there is little info on the net about this, and I'm in no condition to do this kind of heavy research.

thanks,

D
Edited by dfowler, 27 November 2011 - 06:03 AM.

I'm wondering is there a danger introducing sythetic NGF vs stimulating the pathways that produce it in the body or if there's any real difference?

I'm wondering is there a danger introducing sythetic NGF vs stimulating the pathways that produce it in the body or if there's any real difference?

We have evidence that both NGF secreters and NGF increase Lung Cancer growth rates. NGF the protien would allow advantagous pharamkenetics, in that the distribution to the body could be significantly be reduced with the use of eye drops while still significantly elevating CNS NGF.

Of note is that the Heart and Luncgs are actaully very similar Biochemically to the Nervous tissue, therefore many substance that increase NGF centrally will also do so in the Lungs. It is possiable that there are substances that increase NGF Centrally while not doing so in the Lungs in a great quantity(Lung perpherial nervous tissue would however be expected to respond to the stimulas and secret NGF, which would increase Tumor growth) I would assume that NGF is unable to pass through body compartments. Therefore elevated CNS NGF shouldnt increase Lung NGF, some NGF may transport through endocytosis from CNS to PNS to Lung.

It should be noted that there exist various natural optimal NGF concentrations, the body must accept this risk to allow sufficient cognitive capacity for natural selection.

The original article showed that NGF stimulated Tumor growth In Vitro, I should have pointed out that this in itself only indicated the potential for increased Cancer mortality In Vivo. For it is possiable(conceptually) that increased NGF could decrease mortaility In Vivo through some unidentified means(Note Im not speculating towards this). It appears that some NGF secreters do increase Mortality In Vivo, So questioning the relevance of In Vitro data appears unmeritous.

Lion mane is still a viable method for increasing cognition, this risk doesnt apply specifically to Lions Mane, more rather in general to artifical and endogenous Cognitive enhancement. Could learning to speed read increase NGF in the Lung, Maybe, Could this cause a small increase in chance of Mortality, maybe, Or could gain greater skill and emotional stablity counteract this risk, Maybe(tradeoff?). I do personally believe that ones own thoughts influence the occurance of cancer and the ability of the body to respond to it. Also It should be noted that that there are ways to significantly decrease the chance of Cancer.

DONT BE SCARED TO DIE, BE SCARED NOT TO LIVE, however rational self preservation is still key.

Hehe, interesting post, QuantumTubule, thanks!

However I'm scared of both dying and not living! As you say, rational self preservation is sound, but it's kind of hard to know where to draw the line when you don't have the facts.

Thing is I'm seriously considering going to some East European state to buy a lot of cerebrolysin, as the disorders I suffer from are so damn limiting and impairs my life in every way.
Don't know if cerebrolysin is the panacea I'm looking for, but if it is, I'm not sure I can afford not to take it, regardless of the fairly unknown safety profile..
Any thoughts? :/

I have read all of this fantastic thread. And I am convinced ! I'm going to buy some to try out.


But here I am at a fork.

I have four paths that I may take.

http://www.fungi.com...s/extracts.html = Liquid form

http://www.fungi.com...s/capsules.html = Capsule

http://www.mycoessen...ne_Products.htm = Powder & Capsule



Mycoessentials offers are much more cheaper. But I am curious about the liquid form.


Blast ! I took notes of many things, but not of the way Mycoessentials or Fungi treat their Lion's Mane !

I believe it was alcohol for Fungi.com ? I think it was designed as one of the safest bets out there.


Anybody remember or know anything about Mycoessentials ? Man, is there no research functions for topics ? Or am I just not searching well enough ? Ahahah



Well lads, what do you think ? Any information that might push me toward one or the other, may it be brand or form ?


I'll of course report about my experience here.

I'm wondering is there a danger introducing sythetic NGF vs stimulating the pathways that produce it in the body or if there's any real difference?

We have evidence that both NGF secreters and NGF increase Lung Cancer growth rates. NGF the protien would allow advantagous pharamkenetics, in that the distribution to the body could be significantly be reduced with the use of eye drops while still significantly elevating CNS NGF.

Of note is that the Heart and Luncgs are actaully very similar Biochemically to the Nervous tissue, therefore many substance that increase NGF centrally will also do so in the Lungs. It is possiable that there are substances that increase NGF Centrally while not doing so in the Lungs in a great quantity(Lung perpherial nervous tissue would however be expected to respond to the stimulas and secret NGF, which would increase Tumor growth) I would assume that NGF is unable to pass through body compartments. Therefore elevated CNS NGF shouldnt increase Lung NGF, some NGF may transport through endocytosis from CNS to PNS to Lung.

It should be noted that there exist various natural optimal NGF concentrations, the body must accept this risk to allow sufficient cognitive capacity for natural selection.

The original article showed that NGF stimulated Tumor growth In Vitro, I should have pointed out that this in itself only indicated the potential for increased Cancer mortality In Vivo. For it is possiable(conceptually) that increased NGF could decrease mortaility In Vivo through some unidentified means(Note Im not speculating towards this). It appears that some NGF secreters do increase Mortality In Vivo, So questioning the relevance of In Vitro data appears unmeritous.

Lion mane is still a viable method for increasing cognition, this risk doesnt apply specifically to Lions Mane, more rather in general to artifical and endogenous Cognitive enhancement. Could learning to speed read increase NGF in the Lung, Maybe, Could this cause a small increase in chance of Mortality, maybe, Or could gain greater skill and emotional stablity counteract this risk, Maybe(tradeoff?). I do personally believe that ones own thoughts influence the occurance of cancer and the ability of the body to respond to it. Also It should be noted that that there are ways to significantly decrease the chance of Cancer.

DONT BE SCARED TO DIE, BE SCARED NOT TO LIVE, however rational self preservation is still keyf.

You've hit the nail on the hammer, but I don't think that Hericium erinaceum raises NGF in the body greatly.

I was under the impression that Hericum was broken down in the brain directley to BDNF, and is known to stimulate a response greater then 5x then normal.

If you take the eye drop straight version I'd imagian before any of that NGF turns into BDNGF it would need to pass through all of the body increasing the cancer risk. I would even jump to say that taking Lion's Mane would protect against Cancer because of it's anti inflammatory mechnisms.

I have read all of this fantastic thread. And I am convinced ! I'm going to buy some to try out.


But here I am at a fork.

I have four paths that I may take.

http://www.fungi.com...s/extracts.html = Liquid form

http://www.fungi.com...s/capsules.html = Capsule

http://www.mycoessen...ne_Products.htm = Powder & Capsule



Mycoessentials offers are much more cheaper. But I am curious about the liquid form.


Blast ! I took notes of many things, but not of the way Mycoessentials or Fungi treat their Lion's Mane !

I believe it was alcohol for Fungi.com ? I think it was designed as one of the safest bets out there.


Anybody remember or know anything about Mycoessentials ? Man, is there no research functions for topics ? Or am I just not searching well enough ? Ahahah



Well lads, what do you think ? Any information that might push me toward one or the other, may it be brand or form ?


I'll of course report about my experience here.

Swanson and New Chapter work well and are priced right.

Has anybody in the UK ordered Lion's Mane and is happy with the produce, price and delivery?

Sorry Mushroom Harvest looked good, and described the extraction process, purity etc. I seem to get a good mental boost off of Lions mane, I'm taking some powdered form, but I can't be bothered to remember the company right now, only it was expensive for just a small bottle.

I think the one you bought before was the Fungi Perfecti liquid. A good product, but it is a little pricey.

The thing to remember is that the fruit bodies and mycelium contain different families of NGF-inducing molecules, so if you're looking for the greatest effect, you should be trying to use both. The other important fact is that the molecules are somewhat difficult to extract. For instance, Mushroom Harvest only uses water (steam) for their extraction, but alcohol is also necessary to get all the actives.

If you really need all the active ingredients but don't want to spend a lot, I would buy bulk unextracted powder of both the fruiting bodies and the mycelium. No extraction means you're guaranteed to get all the active ingredients, and it will probably cost less. Healthy Village and Mushroom Man have bulk fruit bodies, and Myco Essentials and MRL have bulk mycelium. The mycelium products are more expensive by weight, so it may make more sense to take those every other day, etc. depending on your budget.

It may also make sense to take breaks from LM occasionally, as well. NGF interacts with receptors, so it may be subject to tolerance in much the same way as other drugs.

Swanson and New Chapter work well and are priced right.

Just FYI, the bulk sources of FB I just posted are 3-4x cheaper than Swanson's capsule product, by weight.
Edited by chrono, 30 November 2011 - 01:07 PM.

Has anybody in the UK ordered Lion's Mane and is happy with the produce, price and delivery?

I ordered from iherb (mushroom science)some time ago. Can't say it made any difference. Don't think it was fruit bodies though.
Edited by nito, 30 November 2011 - 02:38 PM.

If you really need all the active ingredients but don't want to spend a lot, I would buy bulk unextracted powder of both the fruiting bodies and the mycelium.

And if you want to spend alot, what do you then reccommend?

If you really need all the active ingredients but don't want to spend a lot, I would buy bulk unextracted powder of both the fruiting bodies and the mycelium.

And if you want to spend alot, what do you then reccommend?

Well, the bulk powder has all the active ingredients and causes no side effects that I'm aware of, so I don't think the more expensive products really have any advantages besides convenience. Fungi Perfecti's liquid product contains a good extract of both fruit bodies and mycelium, so it's more convenient. Swanson's capsule product is unextracted fruit bodies, and a fairly decent price. Fungi Perfecti's Host Defense contains unextracted mycelium, and the Eclectic Institute product is a good mycelium-only extraction.

If you have a fetish for spending money, the Amyloban 3399 product is $90 a bottle, and is standardized by a company with an eminent doctor of mycology on staff. Aside from the standardized amount of hericenone, it has no benefit over eating 1.5g of fruit body powder, and costs about 25x as much.

There are more precise price/dose breakdowns for all these products earlier in the thread.
Edited by chrono, 30 November 2011 - 04:29 PM.

If you really need all the active ingredients but don't want to spend a lot, I would buy bulk unextracted powder of both the fruiting bodies and the mycelium.

And if you want to spend alot, what do you then reccommend?

Well, the bulk powder has all the active ingredients and causes no side effects that I'm aware of, so I don't think the more expensive products really have any advantages besides convenience. Fungi Perfecti's liquid product contains a good extract of both fruit bodies and mycelium, so it's more convenient. Swanson's capsule product is unextracted fruit bodies, and a fairly decent price. Fungi Perfecti's Host Defense contains unextracted mycelium, and the Eclectic Institute product is a good mycelium-only extraction.

If you have a fetish for spending money, the Amyloban 3399 product is $90 a bottle, and is standardized by a company with an eminent doctor of mycology on staff. Aside from the standardized amount of hericenone, it has no benefit over eating 1.5g of fruit body powder, and costs about 25x as much.

There are more precise price/dose breakdowns for all these products earlier in the thread.

Thanks. So it looks Amyloban is totally pointless. To not fiddle around with too many stuff Fungi perfect liquid is suitable it looks like as its as effective as the normal powder. Yes the Amyloban is standardized, and fungi is just the extract, but i guess you know your stuff about the fungi perfect one.
Edited by nito, 30 November 2011 - 04:53 PM.

Thanks. So it looks Amyloban is totally pointless. To not fiddle around with too many stuff Fungi perfect liquid is suitable it looks like as its as effective as the normal powder. Yes the Amyloban is standardized, and fungi is just the extract, but i guess you know your stuff about the fungi perfect one. Is this the liquid you put in your eyes everyday or it's oral?

Yeah, based on the solubility of the actives and what the companies have told me about the extracts, I think the FP liquid product is the best one all-in-one product if you want to go that route.

It's oral.

Thanks. So it looks Amyloban is totally pointless. To not fiddle around with too many stuff Fungi perfect liquid is suitable it looks like as its as effective as the normal powder. Yes the Amyloban is standardized, and fungi is just the extract, but i guess you know your stuff about the fungi perfect one. Is this the liquid you put in your eyes everyday or it's oral?

Yeah, based on the solubility of the actives and what the companies have told me about the extracts, I think the FP liquid product is the best one all-in-one product if you want to go that route.

It's oral.

Sounds real good. Thanks. The only downpart is that i have read in the past, it can take something like 6 months for you to notice results and NGF to grow, that's pretty lenghty.

As for the cancer concern: there is a plausible risk, and it's very difficult to guess exactly how likely it is. NGF has been shown to have an effect on lung [1] [2], prostate [3] [4] [5], pancreatic [6] [7] [8] [9] [10], breast [11] [12] [13] [14] and other [15] cancer. The potential enhancement of survival, proliferation and/or invasiveness of cancer cells seems to be mediated primarily through the high-affinity NGF receptor TrkA [16] [17] [18], though the low-affinity receptor P75 may also play a role [12] [13]. Cancer therapies which reduce NGF or block its receptors are being studied [19] [20] [21]. But on the other hand, NGF has been shown to have a beneficial effect in some models, too [22] [23], though this doesn't obviate the risk posed.

So yeah, this is potentially worrying. Increased angiogenesis and survival means that very small cancers which might otherwise be killed off easily by the body could grow to be a larger concern. Enhanced proliferation means that existing cancer clusters might grow at an accelerated rate.

However, whether this is a practical concern when taking Lion's Mane is another matter. Cancer cells release increased levels of NGF on their own [6], and the overall enhancing effect may have more to do with increased expression of NGF receptors in cancer cells than the amount of NGF present [16]. Another factor to consider is the aforementioned site of LM's action. Its effect on NGF secretion has been demonstrated in human neural cells [24], and NGF can't cross the BBB, so it's unknown whether this will have a significant effect elsewhere in the body. I'd guess that it does have the potential, but as a matter of practical concern may have no effect given the cancer cell's already-increased NGF secretion.

But to put this in context, anything from a high-protein diet to the amount of B vitamins found in most common supplements to the far-upstream neural mechanisms of piracetam could feed cancer in a similar way. The best defense is still to try hard not to generate cancer in the first place. But Lion's Mane may not be the best thing to take constantly for the rest of your life, given this risk. Like most things we discuss here, it should be considered as a risk/benefit ratio. If you do take it, looking into supplements which might fight/prevent cancer is definitely a good idea.

Here I establish the Potential for Nicotine to increase NGF in a cell line

Mechanisms of nicotine mediated communication between NGF-differentiated PC12 and HEL cells.

This article does not support nicotine as a pro-NGF compound. The only mention of NGF is that it was used to prepare (differentiate) the PC12 cells they used.

Nicotine has been shown to increase both NGF mRNA and actual protein expression in several models [25] [26] [27], and also failed to do so [28]. It also increases expression of the NGF receptors [26] [27] [28] [29] [30] [31], which is another mechanism for cancer promotion. When added to the potentially carcinogenic metabolites, nicotine is probably not the best model to use for determining the effects of NGF on cancer.

Also, can you be more specific about which NGF-related substances have been shown to decrease life span? I could find no studies about direct effects of NGF on longevity, and I don't think there have been any lifespan studies using any of the nootropics we discuss here. The only relevant chemical that comes to mind is nicotine, and there are lots of confounding variables at play there.

I was under the impression that Hericum was broken down in the brain directley to BDNF, and is known to stimulate a response greater then 5x then normal.

If you take the eye drop straight version I'd imagian before any of that NGF turns into BDNGF it would need to pass through all of the body increasing the cancer risk. I would even jump to say that taking Lion's Mane would protect against Cancer because of it's anti inflammatory mechnisms.

I don't think LM has been shown to have any effect on BDNF. It induces cells to secrete their own NGF. Neither BDNF nor the active molecules in LM break down into NGF.

LM is touted as having anti-cancer properties by a lot of vendors. I think this might be based mostly on traditional medicine. There hasn't been a lot of scientific study, apart from a few papers showing some potentially helpful mechanisms like NK cells [32]. This is another factor in the equation, but it's questionable whether one should count on a substance to kill off enhanced cancer cells somewhere down the line...
Edited by chrono, 30 November 2011 - 07:25 PM.

Chrono you must have had a good set of grades at college if you are finished, or you will have if you are yet to get there. I like the way you cite everything, sometimes a few within the same point. This kind of style is what gets you a good grade writing thesis. I am yet to accomplish the task like you, but i'm learning.

Chrono I have Myco Essentials, and it's not in bulk form, but small bottle.

I seem to have an affinity for nicotine, not smoking now, as it's too painful to do much, I was exercising, so yes, thanks for the explanation of how Lions Mane could spread an exisiting tumor, obviously I must find a way to stop even the nicotine patch that I'm using now. But quite honestly I'm willing to take many more risks as my cognition is so poor, that I can't even get out to exercise. What this is is like I said a cummulation of things...I found out today that I ground away 1.2 mg of amalgam filling in just one tooth, out of 8, 4 very thick with 3 mg of amalgam, my dentist is an idiot. It's the grinders who end up getting all this mercury if you have a shitty dentist and did not study up on mercury toxicity, and I did not realize how much I was grinding. So this is another toxin i have to get out of my body.

Anyway thanks for the lions mane links, I'm trying to manage between just existing, while also being healthy, remembering basic things, and remembering to get certain supplements that could potentially grealty help with my recovery.

Chron I greatly respect your skepticism, there have been few at imminst who go the extra mile to find studies showing the negatives effects of this kind of guine pig experimenting many of us do here.

Of course, imminst has had many great thinkers come and go, some working at SENS, and other LE upstarts. But the sad reality for most of us, is we have to do the grunt work ourselves,as supplement companies as good as life extension institute do not factor in these things...there advice usually boils down to take our 10 supplements for this health condition, which is now becoming a potentially scary norm.

Especially with the brain and NGF, there is even more risk then trying more tried and true forumlas for other preventative health conditions, and as we know even the best anti cancer prevention protocals could prove to be bad down the line.
Edited by dfowler, 01 December 2011 - 09:13 AM.

As for the cancer concern: there is a plausible risk, and it's very difficult to guess exactly how likely it is. NGF has been shown to have an effect on lung [1] [2], prostate [3] [4] [5], pancreatic [6] [7] [8] [9] [10], breast [11] [12] [13] [14] and other [15] cancer. The potential enhancement of survival, proliferation and/or invasiveness of cancer cells seems to be mediated primarily through the high-affinity NGF receptor TrkA [16] [17] [18], though the low-affinity receptor P75 may also play a role [12] [13]. Cancer therapies which reduce NGF or block its receptors are being studied [19] [20] [21]. But on the other hand, NGF has been shown to have a beneficial effect in some models, too [22] [23], though this doesn't obviate the risk posed.

So yeah, this is potentially worrying. Increased angiogenesis and survival means that very small cancers which might otherwise be killed off easily by the body could grow to be a larger concern. Enhanced proliferation means that existing cancer clusters might grow at an accelerated rate.

However, whether this is a practical concern when taking Lion's Mane is another matter. Cancer cells release increased levels of NGF on their own [6], and the overall enhancing effect may have more to do with increased expression of NGF receptors in cancer cells than the amount of NGF present [16]. Another factor to consider is the aforementioned site of LM's action. Its effect on NGF secretion has been demonstrated in human neural cells [24], and NGF can't cross the BBB, so it's unknown whether this will have a significant effect elsewhere in the body. I'd guess that it does have the potential, but as a matter of practical concern may have no effect given the cancer cell's already-increased NGF secretion.

But to put this in context, anything from a high-protein diet to the amount of B vitamins found in most common supplements to the far-upstream neural mechanisms of piracetam could feed cancer in a similar way. The best defense is still to try hard not to generate cancer in the first place. But Lion's Mane may not be the best thing to take constantly for the rest of your life, given this risk. Like most things we discuss here, it should be considered as a risk/benefit ratio. If you do take it, looking into supplements which might fight/prevent cancer is definitely a good idea.

Here I establish the Potential for Nicotine to increase NGF in a cell line

Mechanisms of nicotine mediated communication between NGF-differentiated PC12 and HEL cells.

This article does not support nicotine as a pro-NGF compound. The only mention of NGF is that it was used to prepare (differentiate) the PC12 cells they used.

Nicotine has been shown to increase both NGF mRNA and actual protein expression in several models [25] [26] [27], and also failed to do so [28]. It also increases expression of the NGF receptors [26] [27] [28] [29] [30] [31], which is another mechanism for cancer promotion. When added to the potentially carcinogenic metabolites, nicotine is probably not the best model to use for determining the effects of NGF on cancer.

Also, can you be more specific about which NGF-related substances have been shown to decrease life span? I could find no studies about direct effects of NGF on longevity, and I don't think there have been any lifespan studies using any of the nootropics we discuss here. The only relevant chemical that comes to mind is nicotine, and there are lots of confounding variables at play there.

I was under the impression that Hericum was broken down in the brain directley to BDNF, and is known to stimulate a response greater then 5x then normal.

If you take the eye drop straight version I'd imagian before any of that NGF turns into BDNGF it would need to pass through all of the body increasing the cancer risk. I would even jump to say that taking Lion's Mane would protect against Cancer because of it's anti inflammatory mechnisms.

I don't think LM has been shown to have any effect on BDNF. It induces cells to secrete their own NGF. Neither BDNF nor the active molecules in LM break down into NGF.

LM is touted as having anti-cancer properties by a lot of vendors. I think this might be based mostly on traditional medicine. There hasn't been a lot of scientific study, apart from a few papers showing some potentially helpful mechanisms like NK cells [32]. This is another factor in the equation, but it's questionable whether one should count on a substance to kill off enhanced cancer cells somewhere down the line...

Wow didn't read this in detail before i got my fungi perfect liquid lions made which you recommended. Just wondering a few things.

1. Are you meant to take 2 drops (1 ml each) under the tounge? I'm confused becasue the liquid is still the same amount which makes me wonder, if it matter of you just swallow it right away?

2. I do smoke now and then. It seems that lions mane cae give caner from your post. Does that mean im risking even more now? I'm only thinking of taking it maybe 4 months or so.

3. What ratio would you give the benefit/ cost at?

Appreciate your response.

It may also make sense to take breaks from LM occasionally, as well. NGF interacts with receptors, so it may be subject to tolerance in much the same way as other drugs.

Chrono, could you elaborate on how tolerance might develop? I just joined Longecity because of how impressed I was by your grasp of pharmacology.

Brief disclosure on my part: I'm using Lion's mane as an antidepressant. In fact, it acts as an efficacious substitute for a tricyclic anti-depressant I was taking and getting initial results from called Amitriptyline. It mimics NGF in the brain, but since I was taking it often enough to achieve an ever increasing serotonin saturation/steady state, the coincidental nerve growth comes at a physiological cost (anxiety) my body and my well-being eventually can't pay.

I've been getting results from New Chapter's Mind Force. Every two capsules contains 500mg of Hericium erinaceus. Taking four capsules, I feel a noticeable improvement in memory access, emotional intelligence, spatial awareness, attention span, and physical energy. I have not noticed any side effects and I am extremely excited about that. There is one exception in that I'm not certain it plays nice with opioid agonists, but we could talk about that later if interest arises.

Chrono, if you spot this post, can you write back with anything you know about tolerance to NGF agonists?
Edited by Chris J May, 18 January 2012 - 01:40 AM.

According to this review: http://jhs.pharm.or....6(3)/56_296.pdf, the fruiting bodies do indeed contain hericenones, whilst the mycelia are only confirmed to contain erinacines.

When I get permission, I will be interested to read about this study, which has rigorous measurements about the concentrations of both chemical classes in both the mycelia and fruiting bodies:http://onlinelibrary....201000084/full.

Another interesting study from 2010 is titled "Hericenones and erinacines: stimulators of nerve growth factor (NGF) biosynthesis in Hericium erinaceus".

This one explores both chemical classes: http://journals.prou...173290&p_IsPs=N.

I have only the figure-pictures for now:






http://journals.prou...mages/fig06.gif

Edited by dasheenster, 22 February 2012 - 08:32 PM.

What are people's most recent opinions on best sources and prices. And how is it working for you??

Has anyone taken Lions mane for an extended period of time? I've taken it for a little over a month and have noticed somewhat intense muscle spasms that are felt in the arms,stomach area, and the upper lip .Would this be some kind of allergic reaction,or does it haves to do with Lion's mane immune stimulating effects?.I have taken both Swansons brand fruiting bodies and Fungi Perfecti's Mycelium extract. and both produce muscle spasms which come and go periodically throughout the day.

Lions mane is sort of a weird supplement for me to figure out.At first, besides the muscle spasms and the slight muscle weakness, I felt quite calm,relaxed,clear headed and highly alert,Now the calmness has turned to anxiety bordering on feeling like I'm getting close to having a panic attack,and heavy irritability while still maintaining the alertness.I also get periods where I feel very dizzy..Any thoughts on whats going on here? I realy like the alertness as I'm thinking much quicker at work,but I don't the other side effects.
Edited by mattdannald, 20 April 2012 - 02:42 AM.

If you're looking to repair damage to the brain, I wouldn't look at NGF or so-much-so BDNF. Stimulating neural stem cells are your best bet; but, that comes with a risk.

How does one stimulate neural stem cells?

How does one stimulate neural stem cells?

probably something to do with stem cell research and nothing we can afford to do

Chrono mentions that one should take breaks from LM. Anybody know the best cycling schedule?

NGF seems to be beneficial to prevent lung cancer, anal cancer, and brain tumors through epidermal growth factor down regulation [1].

Does anyone have a good source of bulk Lion's Mane, that's easily available to internationals?

In the mean time I've ordered Host Defence from iherb - but I really want to cap it myself with a few other supps for my wife (she has a form of MS)