66 replies to this topic

[EmbraceUnity]

Why AGEs? The AGE content of milk is comparable to apples.

Thanks for the link. Damn cheese is awful. I should eat less.

So probably the casein then... that's what the studies were picking on before anyways, so that would make sense. Though that leaves the conundrum open about why whole milk nullifies the polyphenols more than skim milk.

[Logan]

Well I would assume whole milk has less protein than skim milk if using equal volumes.

As far as I can tell, one cup of skim milk and one cup of whole milk both have 8g of protein. That is why I found it strange that there should be a difference.

Skim milk has more protein than whole milk. You will find the same goes for yogurt.

http://www.google.co...DE9iHIH331RSxcw

I have always eaten frozen wild blueberries with my wholemilk yogurt and rolled oats. I can't give it up it just give it up it tastes too damn good. Maybe I will make an effort to eat more blueberries by themselves at another time.

[EmbraceUnity]

perhaps a stupid question, but would you get similar problem with yogurt? I tend to have my blueberries with oats and natural fat free yogurt.

like any dairy, yogurt has casein

Skim milk has more protein than whole milk. You will find the same goes for yogurt.

http://www.google.co...DE9iHIH331RSxcw

I have always eaten frozen wild blueberries with my wholemilk yogurt and rolled oats. I can't give it up it just give it up it tastes too damn good. Maybe I will make an effort to eat more blueberries by themselves at another time.

Maybe that is all there is to it. If it were any more complex, I'd be angry.

[health_nutty]

I take my blueberries with soy milk - would it be ok?

Looks like there's some bad news. It is starting to look like either protein and/or AGEs are the culprit. Almond milk is the only one I am pretty confident would have no effects.

Wow, when I first heard about milk deactivating tea polyphenols casein was implicated. Now we see that fat and soy effect polyphenols too!

[oehaut]

I don't know if the fat would really be involved.

If so, why these kind of result?

Carotenoid bioavailability is higher from salads ingested with full-fat than with fat-reduced salad dressings as measured with electrochemical detection

CONCLUSIONS: High-sensitivity HPLC with coulometric array detection enabled us to quantify the intestinal absorption of carotenoids ingested from a single vegetable salad. Essentially no absorption of carotenoids was observed when salads with fat-free salad dressing were consumed. A substantially greater absorption of carotenoids was observed when salads were consumed with full-fat than with reduced-fat salad dressing.

Just look at the graph. The more fat, the more absorption of the carotenoid.

Edited by oehaut, 03 March 2010 - 06:25 PM.

[health_nutty]

I don't know if the fat would really be involved.

If so, why these kind of result?

Carotenoid bioavailability is higher from salads ingested with full-fat than with fat-reduced salad dressings as measured with electrochemical detection

CONCLUSIONS: High-sensitivity HPLC with coulometric array detection enabled us to quantify the intestinal absorption of carotenoids ingested from a single vegetable salad. Essentially no absorption of carotenoids was observed when salads with fat-free salad dressing were consumed. A substantially greater absorption of carotenoids was observed when salads were consumed with full-fat than with reduced-fat salad dressing.

Just look at the graph. The more fat, the more absorption of the carotenoid.

Yeah, but that is carenoids, not polyphenols.

[oehaut]

I don't know if the fat would really be involved.

If so, why these kind of result?

Carotenoid bioavailability is higher from salads ingested with full-fat than with fat-reduced salad dressings as measured with electrochemical detection

CONCLUSIONS: High-sensitivity HPLC with coulometric array detection enabled us to quantify the intestinal absorption of carotenoids ingested from a single vegetable salad. Essentially no absorption of carotenoids was observed when salads with fat-free salad dressing were consumed. A substantially greater absorption of carotenoids was observed when salads were consumed with full-fat than with reduced-fat salad dressing.

Just look at the graph. The more fat, the more absorption of the carotenoid.

Yeah, but that is carenoids, not polyphenols.

My bad. I was thinking that carotenoids are actually polyphenol, but a quick searched makes me realize i'm wrong. Are polyphenol limited to flavonoids, catechin, anthocyanin and quercetin?

And what would differ from polyphenol and carotenoids that would make this not likely (fat enhance absorption) in the case of polyphenols?

[Skötkonung]

The name 'polyphenol' refers to the structure of the molecule, i.e. they have more than one phenol unit or building block per molecule. Polyphenols are divided into hydrolyzable tannins (gallic acid esters of glucose and other sugars) and phenylpropanoids, such as lignins, flavonoids, and condensed tannins. Carotenoids doen't share the 'polyphenol' label because of their molecular structure. However, both carotenoids and polyphenols can be classified as phytonutrients. It is likely that the difference in structure protects carotenoids from interacting deleteriously with casein and other milk proteins.

It appears that carotenoids such B Carotene naturally occur in dairy foods. Oddly: When I was looking for studies on milk's interaction with carotenoids, I found a variety of studies on carotenoid levels in human breast milk.

Variation in retinol and carotenoid content of milk and milk products in The Netherlands
"Retinol and carotenoids were measured in Dutch milk and dairy products using a validated approach based on complete extraction of fat, followed by mild saponification and analysis by high-performance liquid chromatography. Raw milk, full fat milk, semi-skimmed milk and butter contain about 10 μg retinol and 6 g carotenoids per g fat. Values for retinol equivalents in milk are 10–20% higher than the values published in the Dutch food composition table. β-Carotene comprises 90% of total carotenoids present in cow's milk, contrary to values published for human milk, which show more equally distributed carotenoids. Winter milk contains 20% less retinol and β-carotene compared to summer milk. Retention of retinol and β-carotene per g fat in hard cheese is one third to one half relative to the corresponding raw milk. In liquid and semi-liquid dairy products (pasteurized milk, buttermilk, vanilla custard, and yoghurt) retention of both compounds is above 80%. Recovery of carotenoids using the validated method is better than that reported by others previously."

[Skötkonung]

Fat and blueberries:

Absorption of Anthocyanins from Blueberries and Serum Antioxidant Status in Human Subjects

"In recent years, numerous studies have shown that the polyphenolics present in fruit and vegetable products exhibit a wide range of biological effects. However, there is little reliable information on the absorption of glycosylated and acylated anthocyanins in humans. In the present study, the absorption of anthocyanins in humans was investigated after the consumption of a high-fat meal with a freeze-dried blueberry powder containing 25 individual anthocyanins including 6 acylated structures. Nineteen of the 25 anthocyanins present in the blueberries were detected in human blood serum. Furthermore, the appearance of total anthocyanins in the serum was directly correlated with an increase in serum antioxidant capacity (ORAC_acetone, P < 0.01). These results show that anthocyanins can be absorbed in their intact glycosylated and possibly acylated forms in human subjects and that consumption of blueberries, a food source with high in vitro antioxidant properties, is associated with a diet-induced increase in ex vivo serum antioxidant status."

Antioxidant Status in Humans after Consumption of Blackberry (Rubus fruticosus L.) Juices With and Without Defatted Milk

"The present study was designed to evaluate the possible effect of the consumption of blackberry juices (BJ) prepared with water (BJW) and defatted milk (BJM) on the plasma antioxidant capacity and the enzymatic and nonenzymatic antioxidants. A significant (p < 0.05) increase in the ascorbic acid content in the plasma was observed after intake of both BJs. However, no changes were observed in the plasma urate and α-tocopherol levels. An increase on the plasma antioxidant capacity, by ORAC assay, was observed only after consumption of BJW but not statistically significant. Plasma antioxidant capacity had a good positive correlation with ascorbic acid (r = 0.93) and a negative correlation with urate level (r = −0.79). No correlation was observed between antioxidant capacity and total cyanidin or total ellagic acid contents. Further, it was observed that plasma catalase increased following intake of BJ’s. No change was observed on the plasma and erythrocyte CAT and glutathione peroxidase activities. A significant decrease (p < 0.05) in the urinary antioxidant capacity between 1 and 4 h after intake of both BJs was observed. A good correlation was observed between total antioxidant capacity and urate and total cyanidin levels. These results suggested association between anthocyanin levels and CAT and a good correlation between antioxidant capacity and ascorbic acid in the human plasma after intake of BJs. Follow-up studies investigating the antioxidant properties and health benefits are necessary to demonstrate the health benefits of polyphenols."

[Skötkonung]

Hmm, it seems prudent to also examine the association between milk and tea:

A single dose of tea with or without milk increases plasma antioxidant activity in humans
"Objective: To investigate the effect of black and green tea consumption, with and without milk, on the plasma antioxidant activity in humans. Design: In a complete cross-over design, 21 healthy volunteers (10 male, 11 female) received a single dose of black tea, green tea (2 g tea solids in 300 ml water) or water with or without milk. Blood samples were obtained at baseline and at several time points up to 2 h post-tea drinking. Plasma was analysed for total catechins and antioxidant activity, using the ferric reducing ability of plasma ( FRAP) assay. Results: Consumption of black tea resulted in a significant increase in plasma antioxidant activity reaching maximal levels at about 60 min. A larger increase was observed after consumption of green tea. As anticipated from the higher catechin concentration in green tea, the rise in plasma total catechins was significantly higher after consumption of green tea when compared to black tea. Addition of milk to black or green tea did not affect the observed increases in plasma antioxidant activity. Conclusions: Consumption of a single dose of black or green tea induces a significant rise in plasma antioxidant activity in vivo. Addition of milk to tea does not abolish this increase, Whether the observed increases in plasma antioxidant activity after a single dose of tea prevent in vivo oxidative damage remains to be established. Descriptors: tea; antioxidant activity; milk; catechins; flavonoids; bioavailability; human study."

Bioavailability of catechins from tea: the effect of milk.
"OBJECTIVES: To assess the blood concentration of catechins following green or black tea ingestion and the effect of addition of milk to black tea. DESIGN: Twelve volunteers received a single dose of green tea, black tea and black tea with milk in a randomized cross-over design with one-week intervals. Blood samples were drawn before and up to eight hours after tea consumption. SETTING: The study was performed at the Unilever Research Vlaardingen in The Netherlands. SUBJECTS: Twelve healthy adult volunteers (7 females, 5 males) participated in the study. They were recruited among employees of Unilever Research Vlaardingen. INTERVENTIONS: Green tea, black tea and black tea with semi-skimmed milk (3 g tea solids each). RESULTS: Consumption of green tea (0.9 g total catechins) or black tea (0.3 g total catechins) resulted in a rapid increase of catechin levels in blood with an average maximum change from baseline (CVM) of 0.46 micromol/l (13%) after ingestion of green tea and 0.10 micromol/l (13%) in case of black tea. These maximum changes were reached after (mean (s.e.m.)) t=2.3 h (0.2) and t=2.2 h (0.2) for green and black tea respectively. Blood levels rapidly declined with an elimination rate (mean (CVM)) of t1/2=4.8 h (5%) for green tea and t1/2=6.9 h (8%) for black tea. Addition of milk to black tea (100 ml in 600 ml) did not significantly affect the blood catechin levels (areas under the curves (mean (CVM) of 0.53 h. micromol/l (11%) vs 0.60 h. micromol/l (9%) for black tea and black tea with milk respectively. CONCLUSION: Catechins from green tea and black tea are rapidly absorbed and milk does not impair the bioavailability of tea catechins."

Addition of milk does not affect the absorption of flavonols from tea in man

[tunt01]

Milk Eliminates Cardiovascular Health Benefits Of Tea, Researchers Warn

ScienceDaily (Jan. 9, 2007) — Research published online in the European Heart Journal has found that the protective effect that tea has on the cardiovascular system is totally wiped out by adding milk.

Tests on volunteers showed that black tea significantly improves the ability of the arteries to relax and expand, but adding milk completely blunts the effect. Supporting tests on rat aortas (aortic rings) and endothelial (lining) cells showed that tea relaxed the aortic rings by producing nitric oxide, which promotes dilation of blood vessels. But, again, adding milk blocked the effect.

The findings, by cardiologists and scientists from the Charité Hospital, Universitätsmedizin-Berlin, Germany, are bad news for tea-drinking nations like the British, who normally add milk to their beverage. The results have led the researchers to suggest that tea drinkers who customarily add milk should consider omitting it some of the time.

Their study showed that the culprit in milk is a group of proteins called caseins, which they found interacted with the tea to decrease the concentration of catechins in the beverage. Catechins are the flavonoids in tea that mainly contribute to its protection against cardiovascular disease.

Senior researcher Dr Verena Stangl, Professor of Cardiology (Molecular Atherosclerosis) at the hospital, said: “There is a broad body of evidence from experimental and clinical studies indicating that tea exerts antioxidative, anti-inflammatory and vasodilating effects, thereby protecting against cardiovascular diseases. As worldwide tea consumption is second only to that of water, its beneficial effects represent an important public health issue. But, up to now, it’s not been known whether adding milk to tea, as widely practised in the UK and some other countries, influences these protective properties. So, we decided to investigate the effects of tea, with and without milk, on endothelial function, because that is a sensitive indicator of what is happening to blood vessels.”

Sixteen healthy postmenopausal women drank either half a litre of freshly brewed black tea, black tea with 10% skimmed milk, or boiled water (as a control) on three separate occasions under the same conditions. The endothelial function of the brachial artery in the forearm was measured by high resolution ultrasound before and two hours after drinking, with measurements being taken every 15 seconds for up to two minutes a time.

Said first author Dr Mario Lorenz, a molecular biologist: “We found that, whereas drinking tea significantly increased the ability of the artery to relax and expand to accommodate increased blood flow compared with drinking water, the addition of milk completely prevents the biological effect. To extend our findings to a functional model, we determined vasodilation in rat aortic rings by exposing them to tea on its own and tea with individual milk proteins added, and got the same result.”

Milk contains a number of different proteins: by testing each one separately, the researchers found that it was the three caseins that accounted for the inhibiting effect, probably by forming complexes with tea catechins.

Said Dr Stangl: “The well-established benefits of tea have been described in many studies. Our results thus provide a possible explanation for the lack of beneficial effects of tea on the risk of heart disease in the UK, a country where milk is usually added.”

She said their findings could also have implications for cancer, against which tea has also been shown to be protective. “Since milk appears to modify the biological activities of tea ingredients, it is likely that the anti-tumour effects of tea could be affected as well. I think it is essential that we re-examine the association between tea consumption and cancer protection, to see if that is the case.”

Said Dr Lorenz: “It is important to bear in mind that green tea is almost exclusively drunk without milk. So we are talking only about those countries and regions where black tea is consumed and where milk is added. We certainly don’t want to dismiss the consumption of black tea: the results of our study merely attempt to encourage people to consider that, while the addition of milk may improve its taste, it may also lower its health-protective properties.”

Dr Stangl said that another important lesson from their research was that it was vital in nutritional studies to exclude confounding factors as far as possible. Often, the effects of a single nutritional compound or beverage such as red wine, olive oil and so on, are analysed. But, it is difficult to assign clearly the observed effects and separate them from the surrounding food matrix (such as adding milk) that may bias results. It was therefore important to collect all data accurately and include potentially confounding factors in the analysis.

She said that the team was now in the process of comparing the effects of green and black tea on vascular function. “It’s an ongoing question whether green tea, with its higher catechin content, is superior to black tea in regard to endothelial function. In addition, because of the antiatherogenic potential of tea ingredients, we want to investigate the effects of the ingredients on chronic cardiovascular processes such as the development of restenosis (re-narrowing of arteries) after catheter procedures.”

Reference: Addition of milk prevents vascular protective effects of tea. European Heart Journal. doi:10.1093/eurheartj/ehl442.

The European Heart Journal is an official journal of the European Society of Cardiology

[JLL]

So what exactly does casein do to polyphenols? If it "forms complexes", does it mean that they are broken down during digestion and become bioavailable again?

[oehaut]

Hmm, it seems prudent to also examine the association between milk and tea:

A single dose of tea with or without milk increases plasma antioxidant activity in humans
"Objective: To investigate the effect of black and green tea consumption, with and without milk, on the plasma antioxidant activity in humans. Design: In a complete cross-over design, 21 healthy volunteers (10 male, 11 female) received a single dose of black tea, green tea (2 g tea solids in 300 ml water) or water with or without milk. Blood samples were obtained at baseline and at several time points up to 2 h post-tea drinking. Plasma was analysed for total catechins and antioxidant activity, using the ferric reducing ability of plasma ( FRAP) assay. Results: Consumption of black tea resulted in a significant increase in plasma antioxidant activity reaching maximal levels at about 60 min. A larger increase was observed after consumption of green tea. As anticipated from the higher catechin concentration in green tea, the rise in plasma total catechins was significantly higher after consumption of green tea when compared to black tea. Addition of milk to black or green tea did not affect the observed increases in plasma antioxidant activity. Conclusions: Consumption of a single dose of black or green tea induces a significant rise in plasma antioxidant activity in vivo. Addition of milk to tea does not abolish this increase, Whether the observed increases in plasma antioxidant activity after a single dose of tea prevent in vivo oxidative damage remains to be established. Descriptors: tea; antioxidant activity; milk; catechins; flavonoids; bioavailability; human study."

Bioavailability of catechins from tea: the effect of milk.
"OBJECTIVES: To assess the blood concentration of catechins following green or black tea ingestion and the effect of addition of milk to black tea. DESIGN: Twelve volunteers received a single dose of green tea, black tea and black tea with milk in a randomized cross-over design with one-week intervals. Blood samples were drawn before and up to eight hours after tea consumption. SETTING: The study was performed at the Unilever Research Vlaardingen in The Netherlands. SUBJECTS: Twelve healthy adult volunteers (7 females, 5 males) participated in the study. They were recruited among employees of Unilever Research Vlaardingen. INTERVENTIONS: Green tea, black tea and black tea with semi-skimmed milk (3 g tea solids each). RESULTS: Consumption of green tea (0.9 g total catechins) or black tea (0.3 g total catechins) resulted in a rapid increase of catechin levels in blood with an average maximum change from baseline (CVM) of 0.46 micromol/l (13%) after ingestion of green tea and 0.10 micromol/l (13%) in case of black tea. These maximum changes were reached after (mean (s.e.m.)) t=2.3 h (0.2) and t=2.2 h (0.2) for green and black tea respectively. Blood levels rapidly declined with an elimination rate (mean (CVM)) of t1/2=4.8 h (5%) for green tea and t1/2=6.9 h (8%) for black tea. Addition of milk to black tea (100 ml in 600 ml) did not significantly affect the blood catechin levels (areas under the curves (mean (CVM) of 0.53 h. micromol/l (11%) vs 0.60 h. micromol/l (9%) for black tea and black tea with milk respectively. CONCLUSION: Catechins from green tea and black tea are rapidly absorbed and milk does not impair the bioavailability of tea catechins."

Addition of milk does not affect the absorption of flavonols from tea in man

What could explain these very contradictory result from the other study? And there's also one that find that milk impairs tea vascular protective effect and same with dark chocolate.

Very much thanks for the paper I will try to read them maybe the author discuss it.

EDIT: at the end of the paper the author says:

It is a matter of fact that the discrepancy of the results in humans is remarkable, with half the reports suggesting a lack of effect [18,20,4346] and the other half
suggesting an inhibitory effect of milk [15,17,19,21].

Tho, they do not say what could explain the difference.

Edited by oehaut, 04 March 2010 - 01:18 PM.

[oehaut]

So what exactly does casein do to polyphenols? If it "forms complexes", does it mean that they are broken down during digestion and become bioavailable again?

I'm probably wrong because i'm guessing but, if it's a link à la glycation, ie non-enzymatic link, i'm not sure it can be broken down back, and it just become a kind of a junk protein?

EDIT:

JLL: at least a part of the answer can probably be found in these

Characterization of protein–polyphenol interactions

Polyphenol–protein interactions (Short Communication)

Nature of Polyphenol−Protein Interactions

Non covalent cross-linking of casein by epigallocatechin gallate characterized by single molecule force microscopy

Edited by oehaut, 04 March 2010 - 01:27 PM.

[Sillewater]

What could explain these very contradictory result from the other study? And there's also one that find that milk impairs tea vascular protective effect and same with dark chocolate.

The difference could be the way antioxidant capacity is measured as discussed in this study:

Food Chemistry Volume 122, Issue 3, 1 October 2010, Pages 539-545
Dual effect of milk on the antioxidant capacity of green, Darjeeling, and English breakfast teas
Svetli Dubeaua, Guy Samson, and Heidar-Ali Tajmir-Riahia

Using water soluble methods (ATBS and voltammetry) they found that milk interfered with the antioxidant activity, but if they test for lipid peroxidation milk is actually synergistic. The paper has a very good discussion about what characteristics affect the binding of polyphenols to milk proteins. (specifically size of the polyphenol molecules and hydrophobicity). These are all in vitro studies though.

Here's a response to the study where they tested vascular function:

Eur Heart J. 2007 May;28(10):1265-6; author reply 1266-7. Epub 2007 Apr 28.Addition of milk prevents vascular protective effects of tea.Pfeuffer M, Schrezenmeir J.

In the comment they state that the improvement was minor (3.5%) and they doubt that when casein is digested the catechins will remain bound in the blood (but if it is a covalent bond which some of it is according to the study posted above then that may be a problem).

I do not know if the polyphenols in tea have such an effect on the vascular system, but I know theanine has a hypotensive effect. Maybe when ingested with other proteins (e.g. milk) theanine doesn't have the effect as if it was supplemented alone (just like with l-arginine).

J Agric Food Chem. 2006 Oct 4;54(20):7940-6.Anthocyanin absorption and antioxidant status in pigs.Walton MC, Lentle RG, Reynolds GW, Kruger MC, McGhie TK.

Based on the delayed effect from the anthocyanin levels and antioxidant measurement the study by Walton et al show that it is the effect of the metabolites providing the antioxidants (or it could be due to uric acid production as I have seen in other studies). [this study was in pigs]

Polyphenols are metabolized fairly fast and some time later all is found is the metabolites. Either the original polyphenol was able to provide the benefits within a few hours or it is the metabolites who stay around for hours that provides the health benefits:

Br J Nutr. 2004 Jun;91(6):933-42.Anthocyanin metabolites in human urine and serum.Kay CD, Mazza G, Holub BJ, Wang J.

For a good back and forth on this topic:

Nature 424, 1013 (28 August 2003) | doi:10.1038/4241013a Plasma antioxidants from chocolate, Mauro Serafini, Rossana Bugianesi, Giuseppe Maiani, Silvia Valtuena, Simone De Santis & Alan Crozier

Nature 426, 787-788 (18 December 2003) | doi:10.1038/426787b Nutrition: Milk and absorption of dietary flavanols, Hagen Schroeter, Roberta R. Holt, Timothy J. Orozco, Harold H. Schmitz2 & Carl L. Keen

Nature 426, 788 (18 December 2003) | doi:10.1038/426788a Nutrition: Milk and absorption of dietary flavanols, Mauro Serafini & Alan Crozier

Overall I am inclined to believe that the matrix effect occurs (as mentioned by Schroeter et al, basically the milk protein slows down absoprtion but the polyphenols eventually reach the blood):

J Food Sci. 2007 Apr;72(3):S230-3.The effect of milk protein on the bioavailability of cocoa polyphenols.Keogh JB, McInerney J, Clifton PM.

In this study milk protein and polyphenols were found to be synergistic in terms of antioxidative effect:

Vol. 69, Nr. 9, 2004—JOURNAL OF FOOD SCIENCE
Antioxidative Properties of Commercial Fruit Preparations and Stability of Bilberry and Black Currant Extracts in Milk Products
G. SKREDE, V. BRYHN LARSEN, K. AABY, A. SKIVIK JØRGENSEN, AND S.-E. BIRKELAND

So as far as I know the bindings to proteins don't affect the antioxidant capacity of the berry polyphenols.

Here's a study showing different metabolite profiles as detected in urine but the overall amount is the same:

Br J Nutr. 2008 Oct;100(4):846-51. Epub 2008 Feb 7.The effects of milk as a food matrix for polyphenols on the excretion profile of cocoa (-)-epicatechin metabolites in healthy human subjects.Roura E, Andrés-Lacueva C, Estruch R, Lourdes Mata Bilbao M, Izquierdo-Pulido M, Lamuela-Raventós RM.

If anyone has access to this letter from the Mayo Clinic I would be interested in it:

Mayo Clin Health Lett. 2007 Jul;25(7):4.Study questions cardiovascular benefits of tea with milk.[No authors listed]

Do I eat my blueberries with yogurt or milk? No because I haven't found a need too (because I used coconut milk and the coconut milk solidifies around the frozen blueberries fairly tastily) but I wouldn't be worried. Then again all this could be wrong and the absorption profile is very important and a certain concentration has to be reached before a positive effect is induced. In this case blueberries, teas, chocolate is best taken on an empty stomach.

Edited by Sillewater, 25 August 2010 - 03:11 AM.

[Lufega]

I've been drinking a shake made from Coconut milk, frozen blueberries, almonds and trehalose for months ! This is a very expensive shake where I live right now. I have not yet felt any effect from the blueberries. However, if I eat the same amount of bluerries by themselves by slowly letting them dissolve in my mouth, I get an almost instant buzz.

I suspect the coconut milk is doing something negative here. It still tastes delicious btw.

[Sillewater]

I've been drinking a shake made from Coconut milk, frozen blueberries, almonds and trehalose for months ! This is a very expensive shake where I live right now. I have not yet felt any effect from the blueberries. However, if I eat the same amount of bluerries by themselves by slowly letting them dissolve in my mouth, I get an almost instant buzz.

I suspect the coconut milk is doing something negative here. It still tastes delicious btw.

I agree it tastes delicious (where do you get your trehalose?) Could be a sugar boost? Coconut milk slows down blood sugar spike? Or maybe something else in the blueberries.

[Lufega]

(where do you get your trehalose?).

http://brooklynpremi.../neurocoat.html

[leha]

If skim milk plays a lesser role than whole milk it could be antibiotics in the milk and not the milk itself at all (antibiotics are carried in higher concentration in milk fat than in other solids or liquid). All conventionally raised cows are given subtherapeutic antibiotics in their feed as a regular part of maintenance, and I have a hunch the study didn't bother to use organic milk, although I think a study that did would be a good plan.

Edited by leha, 26 August 2010 - 06:13 AM.

[VampIyer]

When I researched this a while back, I noted that proline-rich proteins seemed to be the worst offenders.

I can't explain why whole milk is worse than skim milk... unless someone looks up the proline content, and it's somehow lower for skim milk.

[Logan]

Whenever I compare and read the labels, I notice skim milk and fat free yogurt both have 1 g more protein than whole milk and whole milk yogurt.

[Recortes]

here goes a silly question,
and what about whey?. Would whey block Blueberries antioxidants?

[yoyo]

I wonder if the situation with alkaloids might be similar to the way calcium forms insoluable salts with oxalic acid and thus isn't absorbed.

[Lucas]

Blueberries with full-fat cream is the way to go.

[stephen_b]

I was thinking the same thing. Heavy cream might be a viable match with blueberries/tea/rooibos.

[doug78]

Hello all. Sorry to bump an old thread but I've been speaking to another helpful researcher about this issue. Here are his comments:

(2) In the comments, Doug linked to a 2009 paper [1] showing that eating blueberries with milk reduced the absorption into the body of the blueberry phenolics caffeic and ferulic acid. Doug wanted to know if this should cause him to stop eating his blueberries with cream.

I don’t think so! The greatest benefits from these berry compounds seems to come in the gut, where they act as toxins to pathogens and help promote beneficial gut flora. So if milk reduces their absorption, it must be increasing their presence in the gut.

Entry of these compounds into the body might even be harmful. Peter recently discussed two potential mechanisms by which berry compounds might be harmful: inhibition of the enzyme CETP, like the drug anacetrapib; and antioxidant activity which, paradoxically, increases oxidative stress by downregulating the body’s own natural antioxidants.

It’s hard to beat the delightful taste of berries and cream. Luckily this study gives us no reason to avoid them!

http://perfecthealth...1#comment-16020

Any thoughts about this?

[Sillewater]

Doesn't seem to affect chocolate:

N. Khan, M. Monagas, C. Andres-Lacueva, R. Casas, M. Urpi-Sarda, R.M. Lamuela-Raventos, R. Estruch, Regular consumption of cocoa powder with milk increases HDL cholesterol and reduces oxidized LDL levels in subjects at high-risk of cardiovascular disease, Nutrition, Metabolism and Cardiovascular Diseases, In Press, Corrected Proof, Available online 6 May 2011, ISSN 0939-4753, DOI: 10.1016/j.numecd.2011.02.001.(http://www.sciencedi...f4ff0be4c905211)Keywords: Cocoa powder; Oxidized LDL; HDL cholesterol; Polyphenols; CHD

Found via Sci.Life.Extension: http://groups.google...d02183942?hl=en

[Athanasios]

So what exactly does casein do to polyphenols? If it "forms complexes", does it mean that they are broken down during digestion and become bioavailable again?

I have looked into this before and found that the bacteria in the gut may cleave any bonds made. Do some searching on biotransformation.

[Athanasios]

Whenever I compare and read the labels, I notice skim milk and fat free yogurt both have 1 g more protein than whole milk and whole milk yogurt.

Sometimes they add powdered egg to up the protein in low fat dairy products.

[Sillewater]

Whenever I compare and read the labels, I notice skim milk and fat free yogurt both have 1 g more protein than whole milk and whole milk yogurt.

Sometimes they add powdered egg to up the protein in low fat dairy products.

Or skim/fat-free have less fat, thus more space for protein/sugar in the same volume serving.