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Please Help Undo the Skin Damage! (Pics)


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#1 Yelena

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Posted 29 April 2010 - 03:53 PM


Hello everyone,

I just finished exploring all the 22 pages of this forum (took me several days), and I've learned so much! (especially from Fredrik and Eva)

I never really had great skin, and it's been getting worse every year. I've never used sunscreen in my life, picked at my skin a lot, smoked and used hot water to wash my face.

As a result, at the age of 30, I now have:

- photodamage all over my face, but especially on my forehead
- very poor tone and texture, "tired" looking skin
- porous and very congested skin (tons of blackheads all over my face, which sometimes become infected, but not deep)
- some sagging at the cheeks and naso-labial folds
- constant itchy "bumps" that look like rash/hives (but usually there's a comedone inside)
- lines on my forehead, naso-labial lines, and some crows feet at rest
- skin feels like that of a grandma - no firmness, kind of loose
- scarring from picking (not deep, but still visible)
- bumpy and rough to the touch
- a lot of dead cells build-up

My skin looks worse in real life than in these photos (the lighting makes it look better/fresher here - in reality it looks grayer, older and more tired):

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Eye at rest - some lines and crows feet

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Eye creases when laughing/smiling

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For the past 2 years, I washed my face only once a week (I exfoliated my skin at the same time - using a washcloth in a shower, and then moisturized it with an herbal oil blend). I was hoping that that would give rest to my skin and let it heal. I was also hoping that my pores would clear up (because I wasn't clogging them up with products every day). Well, it took me 2 years to realize that this "regimen" doesn't work, so here I am, asking for help.

Please help me create a system/regimen to undo the damage/restore, protect and prevent my skin from aging further. I've already found a place online where I can order the sunscreens recommended by Eva and Fredrik. Other than that, I don't know what I should do/use: retinoids, niacinamide cream, acids, etc?

My skin makes my life miserable, I feel like a freak, and very self-conscious. I always compare myself to other girls my age, and I know I look much older than them.

Eva and Fredrik, what would you do if this was your skin? Please help!

Edited by Yelena, 29 April 2010 - 04:00 PM.


#2 Skötkonung

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Posted 30 April 2010 - 09:16 PM

I'm just curious, how long did you smoke and what is your diet like now?

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#3 amonavis

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Posted 30 April 2010 - 09:48 PM

A good topical regimen can help your skin improve slightly and help stop the aging in its tracks. Retin A or Tazorac MUST be part of this regimen. Sunscreen and Antioxidants must be as well. Retin A or Tazorac will do the repair and Sunscreen and Antioxidants will do the prevention. I have used both Retin A and Tazorac and I find Tazorac more effective, however it is even more drying than retin A. I dont know what you skin type is. Do you have sensitive skin?
I like polyphenol antioxidants like green tea, or pycnogenol. They are much more potent than Vitamin C. I am not a big fan of Vitamin C because I think that a lot of the glow that people see comes from low level inflammation and exfoliation from the acid. Also if you are prone to redness or irritation Vitamin C is bad, according to Dr Leslie Baumann in her book Skin Type solutions. In fact if you are prone to redness avoid acids in general, and chemical peels.
Here is a sample regimen for you:

Morning:

Apply antioxidant product- examples include Topix Replenix serum or cream, OR, La Roche posay Derm AOX serum (contains pycnogenol)
Apply a generous portion of sunscreen, My favorites include La Roche Posay spf 50, or for excellent cosmetic elegance, I really like Avene Emulsion or Cream facial suncreens, in the orange tube, available in europe only.

Evening:

If you are applying Retin A, usually you put it right on the skin bare. If it is Tazorac, Allergen suggests that you you apply moisturizer and wait until it dries before applying Tazorac, as it can be so harsh.
Always wait until each product dries before applying the next one.
You should also apply an antioxidant at night.
Follow with a calming moisturizer such Roc enydrial (it works great). Or if you want to add niacinamide into you routine, use an Olay moisturizer with Niacinamide, almost all of them have it in all price points. I like the sensitive skin one.


Keep in mind that all of this will help prevent and repair but if you are as worried about you skin as you seem, why not get a laser treatment too? It might be worth it for you. Fraxel is popular for acne scars and building collagen, or you could also do a series of photofacials which help with brown and red spots. You could do both and alternate. Find a good doctor. Don't do IPL with radiofrequency such as the Elos machine, I have heard bad things about radiofrequency, including facial fat loss. IPL alone, like with Lumenis Quantum or the Lumenis One machine, is fine.

Edited by amonavis, 30 April 2010 - 09:57 PM.


#4 niner

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Posted 30 April 2010 - 10:22 PM

That was a lot of good advice from amonavis. I would change the emphasis slightly; I think a good sunscreen is the number one concern, retinoids next. I would start with the retin A micro because it's the least irritating, but also be sure that you know how to apply it in relationship to when you've last gotten your skin wet, when you use moisturizer, etc. It's been talked about here and you probably already read it. Retinoic acid is really serious stuff; you have to treat it with respect. Like skotkonung, I was also going to ask about smoking and diet. I know a woman who's about 20 years older than you who has smoked all her life, and if you took one look at her it would scare you into quitting! Smoking is probably the worst thing you can do to your skin after constant sunbathing. I'm sorry to hear how awful you feel about your skin. When I looked at your pictures, to tell you the truth, my first thought was "she's kinda cute!" You have really beautiful facial features, so don't be too bummed out about the way you look. (I'm a guy, fwiw) Skincare can be insanely expensive. If you have infinite money, you can make your skin look really great. A good doctor and some sort of laser treatment could be worth thinking about, but it's not the first thing I'd do. I would try not to be too aggressive if you go the laser route. If you go with retinoic acid, you might be able to use retin-A micro for a while (it's expensive) until your skin is used to it, then switch to generic retinoic acid in the lowest dose, and work up to a higher dose if needed. Wear sunscreen every day. Take 2000 IU/day of vitamin D3 in a softgel capsule (oil-based formulation), since you'll be getting even less from the sun than before and you probably needed it even then. Check out the rest of the site; there's a lot of discussion of nutrition, supplements, and exercise if you're into looking and feeling good.

Edited by niner, 30 April 2010 - 10:25 PM.


#5 Forever21

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Posted 30 April 2010 - 10:30 PM

I would look into the latest magic tricks doctors can do in Los Angeles.

#6 amonavis

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Posted 30 April 2010 - 11:43 PM

Not sure what the last post means. Dermatological treatments are available everywhere and I don't think that doctors in LA know more than in other places.

I agree with niner that I should have mentioned sunscreen is number one, retinoids are number 2. I would put antioxidants at number 3. There is no point in trying to repair one's skin without using a generous portion of sunscreen every day, reapplied as required.

You have youth on your side. The skin will repair itself to a certain extent just by sunscreen use alone. Add retinoids to the mix and you are exfoliating off the sun damage and increasing collagen and elastin in the dermis, a place that most skin care products can not reach.

Edited by amonavis, 30 April 2010 - 11:45 PM.


#7 Mia K.

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Posted 01 May 2010 - 12:35 AM

Hi Yelena,

Fredrik and Eva's posts were invaluable to me when I first stumbled onto this site. I hope one or both of them show up to help. :p
That being said, you've received excellent advice from amonavis and niner. I would add that you need a good, effective, gentle water-soluble cleanser to use twice daily - morning and evening. 

A few I like:

Alpha Hydrox Foaming Face Wash;
Eucerin Gentle Hydrating Cleanser;
Avene Cleanance;
Neutrogena one step gentle cleanser;
Paula's Choice one step cleanser normal/dry; also PC skin balancing cleanser.

 Your list of sunscreens looks good.  I use the Avene spf50+ Emulsion, LRP fluides spf50 & 30AC; and Topix Glycolix Elite spf30 (17% zinc oxide - no chemical filters - very soothing and a great makeup base).

Patience will be needed! I would expect very good results, although should you appear worse before better don't despair - it happens.  I do hope you have quit smoking! Also, you most definitely do not look like a freak.

My hearty best wishes, and Welcome!

Mia

 Edit: just cleaning up 

Edited by Mia K., 01 May 2010 - 12:37 AM.


#8 Yelena

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Posted 01 May 2010 - 05:29 AM

Hello guys,

thank you so very much for your advice, kind words and encouragement! :p You gave me hope!

I noticed that Eva's and Fredrik's skin care regimens looked similar, but I thought it was a coincidence (sunscreen - retinoid - antioxidant). But now that Amonavis suggested the same routine (and I also checked out Leslie Baumann, who follows the same regimen), I now realize that it must be because this program works.

By the way, I just took the questionnaire at Leslie Baumann's site, and my skin type is OSPW (oily, sensitive, pigmented, wrinkled). She says: "Recommended skin care products should contain sunscreen, retinoids, depigmenting ingredients, antioxidants and anti-inflammatory ingredients" - so it's consistent with everything I learned from you here on this forum.

So now I'm going to order some tretinoin from alldaychemist.com, and will start the program as soon as it arrives. And in the meantime, I'll buy a cleanser and antioxidant serum - I am choosing between:

- Topix Replenix Serum CF
- Skinceuticals CE Ferulic
- SkinCeuticals Serum 15 AOX
- Clinique Continuous Resque
... they all have great reviews, but I don't know which one is better for my skin?

I am both excited and nervous about starting on retinoids... it seems like a huge commitment. The reason is, when I read about long term users of retinoids who still get red and flaky, I don't know what to think. It seems like they just replaced one problem with another, and still don't get to enjoy their skin. Even Fredrik (who has a great complexion) mentions flaking and redness, and yet he still raves about retinoids. This is very confusing to me :p

Anyway, I wore sunscreen on my face today - for the first time in my life, YAY! :p

I have a question about sun avoidance (when on retinoids): does it mean avoiding just direct sunlight on your face? And how bad is spending an entire day outside, but with sunscreen on, and in the shadow (or wearing a hat)? Is that to be avoided, too?

And a question about re-applying sunscreen: do you have to wash your face before re-applying sunscreen every 2 hours? Or do you apply it on top of the previous layer? If you have to wash every time, then it becomes overwashing, no? And if you layer it, then how is it going to look and feel at the end of the day - with several layers of whitish SPF 50 sunscreen?

At first, I found it hard to believe that even wearing sunscreen alone will allow skin to heal. But today it finally made sense: I remembered about how the freckles on my nose always disappear in the winter - I think that is the proof that skin does restore somewhat in the lack/absence of direct sunlight. That is good news! :)

Finally, about smoking and my diet. I smoked for about 5 years, and quit a month ago. 2 years ago I was on a 100% raw food diet for 10 months. I went raw hoping to improve my skin, but even though I felt really great, my skin didn't improve at all (so I got discouraged and fell off the bandwagon). Right now I am slowly adding raw foods back into my daily menu (fruit or green smoothie in the morning).

So again - Amonavis, Niner, Mia - thank you for your advice! Laser treatment is too scary for me, but I'll start with the suggested topical treatment regimen - maybe that alone will suffice (I hope)!


Yelena

#9 Mia K.

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Posted 01 May 2010 - 02:37 PM

Good on you for putting down the smokes, Yelena.  :)  Also for getting right on w/the sunscreen!  Did you start with the Neutrogena?  I believe you mentioned the Dry-Touch spf100?  If so, it's about the most protective chemical s/s we have in the States.  I think you will find - with great relief - that the Euro products are more protective, and far more cosmetically elegant. 


Baumann's a good source, and local to me. Should I ever need a Dermo I'll look her up.  There is some very good information from knowledgeable, generous folks over at makeupalley.com  There you can access "notepads" with extensive info about cleansers, topical antioxidants, retinoids, sunscreens, also makeup (natch) and hair care.  You do have to register, but it's free and has no other requirements. See, for example:

http://www.makeupall...otepad/tetrakis

Here I'll take the opportunity to suggest  The Clear Skin Diet (Logan and Treloar, Cumberland House, 2007) as a book with sound dietary/nutritional recommendations.  It's well-researched, clearly written & jibes with the info you'll find here at ImmInst in the other fora.

Antioxidants:  The most researched & often recommended is the CE + Ferulic.  I started with it - not for me- I prefer the SkinC AOX 15 that you mention. This is the least important part of my regime; I don't use it daily.

What else?  Oh yeah, reapplication.  :-P  I don't wash when I reapply.  If I reapply.  If not wearing makeup, I blot my face well with those little papers and with clean hands, reapply once midday.  I get very, very little sun on a typical day so my s/s is not photodegrading.  If wearing m/u I blot well then use a powder with s/s.

And yes, retinoid treatment is a commitment.  Is it worth it? Time will tell, n'est-ce pas?  I am sure the dietary changes, intelligent supplementation, sun avoidance & generous use of a well-formulated s/s are well worth adopting.  Remember to use the s/s on the backs of your hands, neck and decollete.  

Cheers, M (Oh, Re:  your salutation, I'm not a guy  ;o) )

Do look into vit D3 supplementation - the Search function works well here.  Also, you do still get UVA in the shade; it's reflective and penetrates window glass as well. Hats and big shades certainly help.  I also have a high spf "sunbrella."  You can take Heliocare for some internal, all-over protection (another rec from Fredrik).

I do hope this is of some small help, anyway.  Eager to read what Eva Vic. and others have to say!  There's always something new in the skin-care field. 

#10 Ben

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Posted 01 May 2010 - 04:35 PM

I'll add my approval that you've given up smoking. I looked almost like a different person, facially, when I gave up after 8 years of heavy smoking.

My advice to you:

1. Retin-A: Your skin will be horrible for like a couple of months. Don't be disheartened, if you can hack it out, you'll have amazing skin. Just have to be faithful.

2. Glycolic Acid peel: 30%. Do this once every two weeks.

3. Salicylic Acid wash: 2%. Use this once every second day until your acne starts to improve.

4. Azelaic Acid: Use this directly on the areas you have acne (go for a low concentration if deciding between two products of the same brand). This acid has anti-inflammatory properties in addition to its comedolytic ones, which, from your photos, you could use.

5. Eryacne: Again use this directly on the pimples. I like to let it dry and then cover it with a bit of moisturiser. I apply both after all the above and with a Q-Tip.


NOTE: Once your skin clears up, remove 4. and 5. and maintain the rest. Use 4. and 5. again for spot treatment if you have the occasional pimple poking through.

0. This program will make your skin more sensitive to the sun and you should look up what the UV curve is for your area (call your local weather authority) so as to know when peak UV is in order to avoid it as well as getting a good, non-oily sunscreen (your skin is obviously overly sebaceous. Oil = pimples) like La Roche Posay's Athelios Fluide.


P.S: Don't worry too much about anti-oxidant serums right now. Everything I've mentioned can be bought cheaply and are much more of a priority for you at the moment.

Edited by Ben - Aus, 01 May 2010 - 04:45 PM.


#11 niner

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Posted 01 May 2010 - 08:48 PM

1. Retin-A:
2. Glycolic Acid peel: 30%.

I've had good results with glycolic acid peels, but combining them with retinoic acid might be kind of hard on the skin, I would think. Particularly in the early phases of retinoid use. I'd be more inclined to use one or the other. Also, I would start at a lower concentration (maybe 20%?) of glycolic acid and go higher if there are no problems. You can also use low concentration glycolic acid in creams that you wear overnight on a regular basis. These can be combined with peels.

#12 mustardseed41

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Posted 01 May 2010 - 09:54 PM

1. Retin-A:
2. Glycolic Acid peel: 30%.

I've had good results with glycolic acid peels, but combining them with retinoic acid might be kind of hard on the skin, I would think. Particularly in the early phases of retinoid use. I'd be more inclined to use one or the other. Also, I would start at a lower concentration (maybe 20%?) of glycolic acid and go higher if there are no problems. You can also use low concentration glycolic acid in creams that you wear overnight on a regular basis. These can be combined with peels.


I could not agree more. Using both early in the game is way too much.

#13 mustardseed41

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Posted 01 May 2010 - 10:00 PM

I also disagree that your skin has to look horrible for a couple of months. This does not have to happen at all if you know what your doing. The key is to go SLOWLY at first. The following link is as good as any I've ever read in explaining the correct way to use it.

http://skinacea.com/...ds/useright.htm

Edited by mustardseed41, 01 May 2010 - 10:03 PM.


#14 amonavis

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Posted 01 May 2010 - 10:39 PM

If you only learn one thing from me do NOT use too many acids on the skin at the same time and especially not while using Retin A. Read the Skin Type Solution. Retin A or Tazorac are already harsh on the skin. You do not need chemical peels and high % ascorbic acid (vitamin C) serums too. It will cause dryness, redness, itching, flaking. You are a sensitive skin type, like me. Using retinoids already puts us at our limit in terms of what we can handle. You should counterbalance them with soothing anti inflammatory ingredients. Good choices include: Niacinamide, caffeine, green tea, pycnogenol.

#15 caston

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Posted 01 May 2010 - 11:52 PM

Honey and almond oil facial to get rid of acne.

http://www.rejuveped...Stratum_Corneum

Use sun protection and avoid retinoids as they can thin your skin make it more sensitive to UV light.

Facial exercises to get rid of crows feet:

http://www.shapeyourface.com/


Take vitamin K2-Mk4 and magnesium to help with elastin production.

Include antibiofilm agents in your diet like garlic and lactoferrin.


Now before you consider anything else for your face you need to start thinking about your other systems of the body most importantly your digestive system starting with your oral cavity and teeth.

If you haven't been to the dental hygienist to have a scale an clean lately make an appointment as soon as possible.

See the Rejuvepedia page on teeth with embedded videos about plaque build up as well as correct brushing and flossing technique.

http://www.rejuveped...php?title=Teeth

If you do not have any metal fillings order an ionic tooth brush such as Dr Tungs or the Soladey eco. The ionic toothbrush works very well to remove plaque biofilms but will cause problems with metal especially mercury fillings.

Follow the instructions correctly and use a good brushing technique and your teeth will feel much cleaner in less than a day. After a couple of weeks they will be the whitest they have been in years.

Edited by caston, 01 May 2010 - 11:57 PM.


#16 Yelena

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Posted 02 May 2010 - 06:26 AM

@Mia: you said CE Ferulic didn't work for you... can you please explain why? Do you have sensitive skin and it caused irritation (like Amonavis said)? Or did the Vit E in it cause breakouts? What type of skin do you have? Were you on retinoids when you tried it? Also, why do you prefer AOX 15, how is it better for you?

@Ben-Aus: why do you recommend peels and what are they supposed to do (that retinoids can't) - help with the scars, blackheads or pigmentation? Also, you recommend some acne treatments while on retinoids (salicilic acid wash, eryacne, azelaic acid)... I thought retinoid alone will rid me of all acne, no?

@Niner: what results did you get from the glycolic acid peels? Do you have to do them every 2 weeks until you see improvement, or for the rest of your life?

@Amonavis: what do you think of azelaic acid, have you tried it? What's your skin type - dry or oily? Also, why did you start on retinoid and how is it working for you?

@Caston: why is thin epidermis bad? Also, what does dental hygene have to do with my skin, why did you mention it? I don't have reservatrol, but will try honey on my face (is the almond oil really necessary, and will honey alone work?) Thanks a lot for the facial exercises link!


QUESTION: I've just looked into azelaic acid and niacinamide some more, and see that they are highly recommended for acne, blackheads and hyperpigmentation (all my problem areas), but (unlike retinoids) they don't cause irritation, sun sensitivity, or thin epidermis. If I just use these 2 actives, can they replace retinoids? This alternative seems safer, what do you think?


Sorry for so many (dumb?) questions, but this all is so new to me - I'm learning a lot, and things are finally starting to make sense! ;o)

Thank you very much for your advice, you are all amazing, generous people!

#17 Ben

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Posted 02 May 2010 - 06:57 AM

@Ben-Aus: why do you recommend peels and what are they supposed to do (that retinoids can't) - help with the scars, blackheads or pigmentation? Also, you recommend some acne treatments while on retinoids (salicilic acid wash, eryacne, azelaic acid)... I thought retinoid alone will rid me of all acne, no?

@Niner: what results did you get from the glycolic acid peels? Do you have to do them every 2 weeks until you see improvement, or for the rest of your life?

@Amonavis: what do you think of azelaic acid, have you tried it? What's your skin type - dry or oily? Also, why did you start on retinoid and how is it working for you?

@Caston: why is thin epidermis bad? Also, what does dental hygene have to do with my skin, why did you mention it? I don't have reservatrol, but will try honey on my face (is the almond oil really necessary, and will honey alone work?) Thanks a lot for the facial exercises link!


QUESTION: I've just looked into azelaic acid and niacinamide some more, and see that they are highly recommended for acne, blackheads and hyperpigmentation (all my problem areas), but (unlike retinoids) they don't cause irritation, sun sensitivity, or thin epidermis. If I just use these 2 actives, can they replace retinoids? This alternative seems safer, what do you think?


Nothing can replace retinoids, these products work through different modes of action and although their benefits may overlap, they are definitely not directly interchangeable, and for really great skin, shouldn't be looked upon as such.

Why do I recommend glycolic acid? Look I have sensitive skin, and these peels did make my skin a quite raw when I first started using them, but all of these great products will do that and you just have to tough it out and be faithful. Personally, there's nothing like glycolic acid for evening out your skin tone and restoring the general glow. Looking at your pictures, you could very seriously benefit from it.

Niner mentions that it will be harsh when you use it while also starting retinoids for the first time. This is very true. Retin-a will mean that any acids you use will be more effective but will also be more aggravating and make your skin more sensitive. As mentioned, this wont last for ever and eventually you skin will be smooth, glowing and even in tone. Starting at 15% with the glycolic acid and moving up is not a bad idea, but if you just do these every two weeks, giving your skin time to recover, you should be able to use 30%.

Don't fret about using too many acids. You have acne and these are the topicals that will correct it (azelaic acid, salicylic acid).

Also, with respect to Caston, and not intending any offense, you can ignore the suggestions that he made.

Edited by Ben - Aus, 02 May 2010 - 06:58 AM.


#18 caston

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Posted 02 May 2010 - 09:51 AM

@Caston: why is thin epidermis bad? Also, what does dental hygene have to do with my skin, why did you mention it? I don't have reservatrol, but will try honey on my face (is the almond oil really necessary, and will honey alone work?) Thanks a lot for the facial exercises link!


You are welcome. You can certainly use honey on its own as long as its organic and unprocessed honey it will be very good for your skin and is the cheapest and most affective way to get rid of acne.

As for retinoids they are a drug and it is not ethical to advise you to take them. You need to make the decision to use them or not to use them in consultation with a dermatologist.

Dental hygene affects your entire body because the bacteria from infected gums enters the blood stream and the organs of your cardiovascular system. Good clean blood is vital for health and youthful vitality including the youthfulness of your skin. The body is an interconnected system.

To fix your skin you must fix the other systems of your body as well.

#19 happy lemon

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Posted 02 May 2010 - 11:50 AM

Yelena,

I can't speak for others; what I say is my experience.

My skin was bit oily & had sun damage & was sagging!

Before using Retin-A & Taz last Jul, I had been using Neostrata products containing glycolic acid in both am & pm for 4 months without any irritation.

Once I used them up & changed to retiniods, I couldn't put any low pH products on my skin for 7 months; including 15% Vit C serum & AHA/BHA. I did twice to use glycolic peel 15% but it made my skin felt like burning; seriously irritated & damaged. In order to repair the damage, I stopped retinoids & it took me a couple of weeks to manage to use retinoids again.

At last, not until last Nov could I use retinoids every night.

If you want to do AHA/BHA peel, I strongly suggest that you should stop using retinoid at least 24 hours before and after the peel (48 hours are suggested).

Also, I recommend that you'd put squalane & jojoba oil after retiniod in the evening. Before using these 2 oils last March, I had my skin very red and flakey. These oils do sooth my skin and the redness has been subsided to a great extent.

Also, you may use microfiber cloth to remove flakes.

Further, you may take supplements suggested by Fredrik:

http://www.imminst.o...o...st&p=377277

Last advice is: Patience. Don't stop because of the irritation of retinioids; you will be retinized in 4-6 months & reap the benefits in 12 months. If you feel very irritated, you may use retinoid every other night or every 3 nights.

#20 Ron

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Posted 02 May 2010 - 04:04 PM

2. Glycolic Acid peel: 30%. Do this once every two weeks.


Are DIY peels possible/safe? If so, what do you use?

#21 Mia K.

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Posted 02 May 2010 - 04:08 PM

@Mia: you said CE Ferulic didn't work for you... can you please explain why? Do you have sensitive skin and it caused irritation (like Amonavis said)? Or did the Vit E in it cause breakouts? What type of skin do you have? Were you on retinoids when you tried it? Also, why do you prefer AOX 15, how is it better for you?


Hi Yelena.  I actually didn't write that the SkinC CE/F didn't work for me, rather it wasn't for me.  I just didn't like it. It felt oily (the E, I assume) and gave me kind of a glazed ham look (shiny & pinky/orange); that it smells vaguely like hotdogs didn't help.  Also I wasn't sure, given the amber color of the product, that it wasn't oxidized.  I didn't find it irritating nor did it break me out.  And yes, I was on retinoids (Tazret .1%cream and Retin-A .05% cream).  Whether or not it was actually doing my skin any good, I'm afraid I can't say.  The AOX 15 doesn't stink and isn't slick at all.  I probably won't repurchase.  The serum I like very much is Olay's Regenerist fragrance-free serum. It's a niacinamide serum I use nightly - very nice texture, lightly moisturizing - which is all I need as my skin is normal/oily t-zone, no wrinkles to speak of.

I'll mention here that I had to go very slowly with the retinoids due to the redness & peeling.  I strongly advise you to do the same, as has been mentioned already.  No need to suffer.  Had it not been for the encouragement and suggestions by others here I wouldn't have stuck with it.  I also threw Avene's Diacneal into the mix every few nights as something of a "retin-lite." 

You asked about azaleic acid. I can't speak for the product nor for Eva Victoria, but she has recommended it in the past (not to me).  You might search her posts.

Your questions aren't dumb. ;o)  I think it's great to have an elegant, effective skin-care routine that keeps me confidently away from each new WOW! cream, lotion & potion. 


Regards, Mia

#22 Matt

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Posted 02 May 2010 - 10:56 PM

I LOVE skinceuticals CE ferulic. it's taking all my red acne marks away and making my skin so much better. so amazing...... best thing ive ever used.

some examples of the benefits from using a vitamin C serum

http://www.skinstore...-e-ferulic.aspx

example 1...
http://www.skin-beau...m/cellexc2.html

example 2

http://www.medizen.c...isplay.asp?ID=7

example 3
http://i208.photobuc.../skinmedica.jpg

and the smell isnt that bad either..

Edited by Matt, 02 May 2010 - 10:59 PM.


#23 TheFountain

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Posted 03 May 2010 - 12:14 AM

I LOVE skinceuticals CE ferulic. it's taking all my red acne marks away and making my skin so much better. so amazing...... best thing ive ever used.

some examples of the benefits from using a vitamin C serum

http://www.skinstore...-e-ferulic.aspx

example 1...
http://www.skin-beau...m/cellexc2.html

example 2

http://www.medizen.c...isplay.asp?ID=7

example 3
http://i208.photobuc.../skinmedica.jpg

and the smell isnt that bad either..


People say C serum tends not to last very long due to stability issues but then why does skinscueticals sell such large bottles that could seemingly last several months?

#24 Matt

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Posted 03 May 2010 - 12:36 AM

when i bought mine the colour didnt change hardly at all, it was a verrryyy light champagne colour, almost clear. It stayed like that for 3 months. I just kept it in a dark and cold place under the stairs. now I keep it in the fridge.

Edited by Matt, 03 May 2010 - 12:37 AM.


#25 Mia K.

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Posted 03 May 2010 - 02:27 AM

That's great, Matt, that you have such success w/the SkinC CE+Ferulic.  I certainly wouldn't want to dissuade someone from using something that could very well be beneficial for him or her.  Everyone's skin is unique after all!


I bought the trial sizes from ebay vendors, as per Fredrik's recommendation.  I didn't go for lowest price, but for the most reputable/highest rated sellers, hoping to get the freshest possible product. All were darker than you describe, and I kept all in the fridge from the beginning.  I might consider trying it again in the cooler/drier months, especially if they were to change to a pump dispenser insead of the dropper bottles.

  (And, yes,  the smell wasn't all that bad, but it certainly wasn't a net positive.)

Best, Mia
Edit: spelling

Edited by Mia K., 03 May 2010 - 03:29 AM.


#26 niner

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Posted 03 May 2010 - 02:58 AM

@Niner: what results did you get from the glycolic acid peels? Do you have to do them every 2 weeks until you see improvement, or for the rest of your life?

The first one I did was 20%, if I remember correctly. I was badly in need of exfoliation at the time, and the first peel gave me the most noticeable results. As I recall, the first thing I noticed was that my pores were smaller and my skin was smoother. I repeated them once a month, increasing the percentage until it was around 70%, over the course of half a year or so. These were done by my dermatologist. In the states, you can get a peel in a salon using up to 30% (I think that was it), but not beyond that; higher concentrations have to be done by an MD. With subsequent peels, the improvement was more gradual. In fact, it didn't seem like much improvement was happening at all, so I decided to stop. This was a number of years ago. I think that it probably did more for me than I realized, in that the skin on my face seems to be in better shape than the skin on other parts of my body. Maybe I should start jumping into a vat of glycolic acid...

It's a pretty gentle peel, and I never had any problems with it. When I experimented with retinoic acid, before I knew anything about it and having had no instruction in its proper use (I asked my regular doctor for a prescription and he just wrote one for me without any warnings about it) I had what I think is a pretty rare side effect; I unthinkingly put some on the back of my hand just to see what would happen, and it triggered a nasty case of eczema that never entirely went away, though it is now pretty well controlled. This is the origin of my respect for the seriousness of retinoic acid. In comparison, glycolic acid seems quite benign, but I think my case is unusual. I have some retin A Micro that I've been toying with trying out on my face, but haven't tried yet.

The nurses in my dermatologist's office seemed to be quite sold on glycolic acid, and I have to say, their skin looked really great. One of them, who looked like she was in her early 30's was actually 45 years old, so I thought that was pretty impressive. I'm not positive that they weren't doing other things as well, but my dermatologist has never been that big on retinoids, however she really likes glycolic acid. From everything that I've read, I don't think that glycolic acid (or any AHA) is equivalent to retinoids, but it does at least some of the same things and seems to be relatively trouble-free.

#27 Logan

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Posted 03 May 2010 - 04:26 AM

Definitely do NOT ever do any invasive laser procedure. Wait at least 10 more years when there will be much better procedures with much better outcomes.

You could look into platelet rich plasma, if you can find someone reasonably close to you that performs this procedure.

#28 JLL

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Posted 03 May 2010 - 07:25 AM

You could also try supplementing with orthosilicic acid such as BioSil or JarroSil. Two human studies have shown benefits, and the first one was in photoaged women.

Depth of roughness, mean depth of roughness and maximum roughness increased in the placebo group by 8, 6 and 11%, respectively. In other words, their skin got worse during the 20 weeks. In the treatment group, however, the same parameters decreased by 16, 8 and 19%, meaning that the participants' skin quality improved considerably. Similarly, signs of photoaging increased in the placebo group but decreased in the group taking ch-OSA.


Supplementing with lutein might help with skin quality too, and it's pretty cheap:

Skin photo-protection improved 2.5 times with the oral lutein supplement and 4.2 times when both topical and oral treatment were used. For skin elasticity, the increases were 56% and 68%, respectively. Skin hydration improved by 82% after combined oral and topical treatment. Oral treatment and topical treatment alone resulted in a 60% and 62% improvements, respectively.

Skin lipid levels also increased; with combined treatment the increase was 63%. Oral treatment and topical treatment resulted in increases of 46% and 23%, respectively. Lipid peroxidation decreased by 65% when the combined treatment was used. Using only the topical lutein treatment resulted in a 63% decrease.



#29 GhostBuster

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Posted 04 May 2010 - 02:36 PM

I have tried topical 5 % niacinamide and 20 % azeleic acid for 1,5 month with good results. My friend who hasnt seen me for a while commented that I looked ten years younger (well, I had also a new hair cut). I had some hyperpigmentation and it has improved a lot and my skin also looks fresher and more radiant. However, in my forehead there are now whiter areas (discoloration). Im not totally sure its due to these products, since it might have been that I was unevenly tanned before. It worries me a bit though. I have also used different supplements like K2, lutein, B5 and niacinamide.

I wouldn't start a skin treatment with retinoids. For what I have read, topical niacinamide and others can make wonders to your skin, improve it in many ways. That is why I think the skin could handle retinoid treatment better if you have strengthen your skin in other ways before.

#30 Yelena

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Posted 12 May 2010 - 04:05 AM

Well, I went for a facial today (smb gave me a gift certificate), and at the end the esthetician gave me a recommended regimen based on my skin type and condition:

MORNING:
- Cetaphil cleanser
- Phloretin CF serum (Skinceuticals)
- Phyto + (Skinceuticals)
- Pigment regulator (Skinceuticals)
- 15% Glycolic cream (not sure what brand, she gave me a sample)
- Elta MD oil-free sunscreen SPF 45 - active ingredients Zinc Oxide 9%, Octinoxate 7.5% (she said I can use my European s/s if they are oil-free)

EVENING:
- 10% Glycolic cleanser (in-house formula - contains sodium laureth sulfate) - she said to gently use it with a teaspoon of baking soda
- Phyto +
- Pigment regulator
- 15% Glycolic cream - OR - Retinol 1.0 cream 2-3 times per week (Skinceuticals)

While she was working on my face, I mentioned that I was considering Niacinamide and Azelaic acid, but she ignored it. I then asked about CE Ferulic, but she said it would break me out. She didn't want to give me prescription Retin-A either - she said I would turn lobster-red and hate it!

So now I'm looking at this list (she gave me small samples for everything), and it just seems kind of overkill - isn't that too much stuff? Also, I am worrying if it's going to be too harsh and drying for my skin? And what about using baking soda in the cleanser every day? (my skin is very congested, but only somewhat oily, and sometimes feels kind of dry)

So I'm not sure whether I should press that button and finally order Retin-A from alldaychemist (I have a full shopping cart) and create my own regimen, or listen to the esthetician and follow hers (after all, she has seen my face/skin in person). Ugh, I can't make up my mind! :)

What does the regimen above look like to you?

--------------------
PS. While I was waiting for my European s/s to arrive, I was using Neutrogena's Spectrum+ SPF 100, and it clogged my pores. Finally today I got my first package, and I've tried Nivea Light Feeling SPF 50. Wow, it looks and feels really great on my skin - very light, dewy and glowing, even my husband commented on it :|? My only concern is, it might turn out a bit drying... we'll see.

Edited by Yelena, 12 May 2010 - 04:08 AM.





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