91 replies to this topic

[Forever21]

. The good news is that it is temporary. If you take twice the amount of your glycation inhibitors (which I think is necessary for someone eating dairy)

what is this? what do u take? benfo?

I think galactose is an indirect route to glycation end products. So the method of dealing with this to my understanding would be extra glycation inhibitors. Double or triple doses of L-carnnosine, taurine, benfotiamine, etc.

doesn't that only work at around the same time you're consuming dairy? not post as in a week or two later?

[Forever21]

Fage Total Greek Yogurt (full fat) has only 7g per cup:
http://www.thedailyp...ic-greek-yogurt

This (in my mind) is much better than milk, which has roughly double the sugar per equivalent serving. The more complete the fermentation, the better the end product in my opinion. Aged raw cheese has low sugars and maintains a great K2 profile.

I bought some after reading your post yesterday, and had a cup this morning with a cup of wild blueberries and a packet of splenda in it along with my eggs. Really really good.

Not for people with fat-phobia because you exceed the RDA of saturated fat before leaving the house in the morning.

Taste wise, yeah, it is really really good. Taste wise.



Milk Destroys Antioxidant Benefits in Blueberries

Mauro Serafini^a, Maria Francesca Testa^a, Debora Villaño^a, Monia Pecorari^a, Karin van Wieren^b, Elena Azzini^a, Ada Brambilla^c and Giuseppe Maiani<sup>a



a</sup>Antioxidant Research Laboratory, Unit of Human Nutrition, Istituto Nazionale di Ricerca per gli Alimenti e la Nutrizione, 00178 Rome, Italy

<a name="aff2" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(0, 0, 255); ">^bFriesland College, Leeuwarden, The Netherlands

^cConsiglio per la Ricerca e la Sperimentazione in Agricoltura, Istituto Sperimentale per la Valorizzazione Tecnologica dei Prodotti Agricoli, Milan, Italy

Received 22 May 2008; revised 25 November 2008; accepted 27 November 2008. Available online 11 December 2008.

Abstract
The antioxidant properties of dietary phenolics are believed to be reduced in vivo because of their affinity for proteins. In this study we assessed the bioavailability of phenolics and the in vivo plasma antioxidant capacity after the consumption of blueberries (Vaccinium corymbosum L.) with and without milk. In a crossover design, 11 healthy human volunteers consumed either (a) 200 g of blueberries plus 200 ml of water or (b) 200 g of blueberries plus 200 ml of whole milk. Venous samples were collected at baseline and at 1, 2, and 5 h postconsumption. Ingestion of blueberries increased plasma levels of reducing and chain-breaking potential (+ 6.1%, p < 0.001; + 11.1%, p < 0.05) and enhanced plasma concentrations of caffeic and ferulic acid. When blueberries and milk were ingested there was no increase in plasma antioxidant capacity. There was a reduction in the peak plasma concentrations of caffeic and ferulic acid (− 49.7%, p < 0.001, and − 19.8%, p < 0.05, respectively) as well as the overall absorption (AUC) of caffeic acid (p < 0.001). The ingestion of blueberries in association with milk, thus, impairs the in vivo antioxidant properties of blueberries and reduces the absorption of caffeic acid.

Keywords: Blueberry; Milk; Antioxidant capacity; Caffeic acid; Bioavailability; Proteins; Free radicals

Abbreviations: AUC, area under the curve; FRAP, ferric reducing antioxidant potential; TAC, total antioxidant capacity; TRAP, total radical-trapping antioxidant parameter

In that study, specially prepared blueberry extract was mixed with an equal volume of whole milk. Measures of antioxidant potential were checked in vitro (in a test tube) and in human subjects. The part using human subjects involved 11 young, lean study subjects who had refrained from having any fresh fruits and vegetables for two days, and they were given the berry/water or berry/whole milk test mixtures after an overnight fast. The study reported that mixing the berry extract with the whole milk resulted in a reduced absorption of certain antioxidants. The effect was believed to involve an interaction with the milk fat. The authors commented that 2 percent milk had less of an effect than whole milk, and skim milk had less of an effect than 2 percent. The study used a specially prepared extract that was consumed under controlled circumstances. Fruits are not normally eaten this way. Berries, including blueberries, are wonderful food. When consumed with or without milk, they provide a great array of healthful phytochemicals and fiber. A study such as this can provide grist for scientific debate, but it shouldn't be given undue weight to steer people away from eating and enjoying healthful foods like yogurt or blueberries (even together). I would simply keep in mind that the two might be best consumed separately to maximize the antioxidant component, but the necessary research to substantiate such a claim is still lacking.

Its just an uncomfortable idea to consume a mind destroying food (yogurt) with mind protective food (blueberries).

Its like smoking while chewing Nicorette gum.

[TheFountain]

. The good news is that it is temporary. If you take twice the amount of your glycation inhibitors (which I think is necessary for someone eating dairy)

what is this? what do u take? benfo?

I think galactose is an indirect route to glycation end products. So the method of dealing with this to my understanding would be extra glycation inhibitors. Double or triple doses of L-carnnosine, taurine, benfotiamine, etc.

doesn't that only work at around the same time you're consuming dairy? not post as in a week or two later?

I think there's a delay/response time between the last time you consumed dairy and the time a glycation inhibitor will work. Either way it is good to take them because lots of information reveals the effect of glycation on skin aging. Do you take any other supplements or topicals for the reversal of skin aging?

Edited by TheFountain, 23 June 2010 - 05:42 PM.

[Forever21]

. The good news is that it is temporary. If you take twice the amount of your glycation inhibitors (which I think is necessary for someone eating dairy)

what is this? what do u take? benfo?

I think galactose is an indirect route to glycation end products. So the method of dealing with this to my understanding would be extra glycation inhibitors. Double or triple doses of L-carnnosine, taurine, benfotiamine, etc.

doesn't that only work at around the same time you're consuming dairy? not post as in a week or two later?

I think there's a delay/response time between the last time you consumed dairy and the time a glycation inhibitor will work. Either way it is good to take them because lots of information reveals the effect of glycation on skin aging. Do you take any other supplements or topicals for the reversal of skin aging?

none
what r u taking?

[TheFountain]

. The good news is that it is temporary. If you take twice the amount of your glycation inhibitors (which I think is necessary for someone eating dairy)

what is this? what do u take? benfo?

I think galactose is an indirect route to glycation end products. So the method of dealing with this to my understanding would be extra glycation inhibitors. Double or triple doses of L-carnnosine, taurine, benfotiamine, etc.

doesn't that only work at around the same time you're consuming dairy? not post as in a week or two later?

I think there's a delay/response time between the last time you consumed dairy and the time a glycation inhibitor will work. Either way it is good to take them because lots of information reveals the effect of glycation on skin aging. Do you take any other supplements or topicals for the reversal of skin aging?

none
what r u taking?

As far as topicals goes. Metazene and adapalene. Once or twice a week I use short contact therapy with Retin-A 0.025% and of course sunblock. As a moisturizer I use 99% Aloe vera gel. Best moisturizer on the planet IMO

Supplementally I take Biosil, MSM, L-carnosine, vitamin c, soy isoflavones and biocollagen/hyaluranic acid. Amino acids L-proline and L-lysine are suppose to be collagen precursors too.

I do not take all of these supplements for skin health, but it just happens they have a added benefit in that regard.

Edited by TheFountain, 23 June 2010 - 06:32 PM.

[Forever21]

Metazene - what is this? what does it do?
adapalene - what is this? what does it do?


Retin-A 0.025% - i use also
sunblock - same here


As a moisturizer I use 99% Aloe vera gel. Best moisturizer on the planet IMO - fer real? why? i use dermae pycnogenol + astaxanthin. im sure you're familiar how potent those 2 are in anti-aging.



Biosil - i remember seeing this. what is this again?
MSM - what is this again?
L-carnosine - just regular carnosine? AOR brand?
vitamin c - isn't this better taken from food? the supplements c poses too many risk.
soy isoflavones - how about the negative effects? cancer?
biocollagen/hyaluranic acid - what do you take, what brand? what does it do?
Amino acids L-proline and L-lysine are suppose to be collagen precursors too - what do you take, what brand?

[Skötkonung]

Its just an uncomfortable idea to consume a mind destroying food (yogurt) with mind protective food (blueberries).

Its like smoking while chewing Nicorette gum.

LOL! Because smoking and Nicorette gum somehow cancel each other out or something? Stupid comparison...

Mind destroying? Where are you getting this crazy idea? Nothing in what you posted said that yogurt destroys your cognitive abilities. It creates a hypothesis that it might affect some of the nutrition in blueberries, that's it. And I would posit if full fat yogurt is rich in vitamin K (and it is), then avoiding CVD and strokes (as per the studies originally posted) is probably a good idea for mental performance.

And here is another one:

Dairy Food Consumption, Blood Pressure and Stroke
"Recent clinical and biochemical evidence supporting the hypothesis that consumption of dairy products may be associated with reduced blood pressure and risk of stroke is reviewed. The two prospective studies of dairy food consumption and stroke incidence both indicate that a higher intake of dairy foods reduces risk. It is difficult to associate any one mineral in dairy products to reduction in blood pressure or stroke incidence because an appropriate metabolic balance of all three is important and because of the strong correlations among Ca, Mg and K intakes when dairy products are consumed. In fact, the evidence reviewed indicates that although K apparently has the greatest effect, all three minerals potentially contribute to blood pressure and stroke reduction, i.e., a dietary balance of all three is recommended. Milk and food products such as yogurt made from milk, which retain substantial amounts of K, Ca and Mg, are important dietary sources of all three of these minerals. In addition, milk is a low Na food, which, as seen in Dietary Approaches to Stop Hypertension (DASH) II, provides further benefit in blood pressure reduction. New studies have associated dairy food consumption with other potential mechanisms affecting stroke, mainly reduction of platelet aggregation and insulin resistance. Further research is required to explore the relationship of dairy food consumption and stroke. "

By the way, if your comment is referring to the animal studies done on dietary fat and cognition...the results of this study was published on the Weston A. Price site wasell, and a point was made there that “fats,” per se, weren’t the problem. Vegetable oils, such as corn oil, soybean oil, and canola oil, were used in this study, but not meat fats or coconut oil or butter. That there are fats which are essential for brain health was not at all addressed by the study or the conclusion. Just sayin’

Edited by Skötkonung, 23 June 2010 - 08:07 PM.

[Forever21]

Its just an uncomfortable idea to consume a mind destroying food (yogurt) with mind protective food (blueberries).

Its like smoking while chewing Nicorette gum.

LOL! Because smoking and Nicorette gum somehow cancel each other out or something? Stupid comparison...

Mind destroying? Where are you getting this crazy idea? Nothing in what you posted said that yogurt destroys your cognitive abilities. It creates a hypothesis that it might affect some of the nutrition in blueberries, that's it. And I would posit if full fat yogurt is rich in vitamin K (and it is), then avoiding CVD and strokes (as per the studies originally posted) is probably a good idea for mental performance.

Yogurt FRIES your BRAIN!, Opales told me to phrase it that way

[FunkOdyssey]

Yogurt FRIES your BRAIN!, Opales told me to phrase it that way

You know, I completely forgot I posted that information. It was like reading it for the first time again. Someday I need to go back through all my old posts and relearn everything I used to know.

[TheFountain]

Metazene - what is this? what does it do?
adapalene - what is this? what does it do?

Retin-A 0.025% - i use also
sunblock - same here


As a moisturizer I use 99% Aloe vera gel. Best moisturizer on the planet IMO - fer real? why? i use dermae pycnogenol + astaxanthin. im sure you're familiar how potent those 2 are in anti-aging.

Biosil - i remember seeing this. what is this again?
MSM - what is this again?
L-carnosine - just regular carnosine? AOR brand?
vitamin c - isn't this better taken from food? the supplements c poses too many risk.
soy isoflavones - how about the negative effects? cancer?
biocollagen/hyaluranic acid - what do you take, what brand? what does it do?
Amino acids L-proline and L-lysine are suppose to be collagen precursors too - what do you take, what brand?

I think the carotenoid astaxanthin is more beneficial as an internal antioxidant.

Biosil-Orthosilicic acid stablized with Choline. Jarrow has a brand too, stabilized with borine or something like that, but the latter has no study behind it. There is a study showing Biosil reduced fine lines and wrinkles in a control group by 30% or something.

MSM is a type of sulfur known as methylsulfonulmethane. It is known anecdotally to have detoxifying effect on the body and to lighten the skin by reducing melanin production.

L-carnosine. I currently am taking the Jarrow brand, which is good enough for me. I am flirting with taking beta-alinine as well but I am unclear if it is even necessary when one is taking L-carnosine. I have noticed a definite improvement in skin tone since taking this supplement.

I think the jury is undecided on Vitamin C supplements. But I take it with the MSM because I heard it increases to absorbability of the former.

Soy Isoflavones- Actually DHT inhibitors are shown to reduce the risk of certain kinds of cancers significantly. Just google some research papers.

Biocollagen/hyaluranic acid-This is said to have low molecular weight and thus be more absorbable than normal Hyaluranic acid. I take the NSI brand. It is said to anecdotally increase circulating Hyaluranic acid levels. No studies to cite, just anecdote from people on the skin care forum.

And the two Amino Acids I mentioned I try to take in powdered form in a cup of organic tomato juice once or twice a day. Basically I just search Iherb or Vitacost for whatever brand is available at a good price.

Edited by TheFountain, 23 June 2010 - 09:24 PM.

[Skötkonung]

Yogurt FRIES your BRAIN!, Opales told me to phrase it that way

You know, I completely forgot I posted that information. It was like reading it for the first time again. Someday I need to go back through all my old posts and relearn everything I used to know.

Hmm. Well I guess I won't be eating yogurt. Although I wonder what the dose is to cause an equivalent effect in humans. Right now I am just eating some raw herbed goat cheese broken up on my salad.

[FunkOdyssey]

Yogurt FRIES your BRAIN!, Opales told me to phrase it that way

You know, I completely forgot I posted that information. It was like reading it for the first time again. Someday I need to go back through all my old posts and relearn everything I used to know.

Hmm. Well I guess I won't be eating yogurt. Although I wonder what the dose is to cause an equivalent effect in humans. Right now I am just eating some raw herbed goat cheese broken up on my salad.

The moral of that story, despite the fact that it was initially about yogurt, is that lactose from ANY dairy food will provide a source of galactose as it is digested. Efforts to reduce intake of galactose and, by extension, lactose seem sensible.

Edited by FunkOdyssey, 23 June 2010 - 09:44 PM.

[Forever21]

MSM is a type of sulfur known as methylsulfonulmethane. It is known anecdotally to have detoxifying effect on the body and to lighten the skin by reducing melanin production.

great. im interested. anything to make me look like a vampire.

L-carnosine. I currently am taking the Jarrow brand, which is good enough for me. I am flirting with taking beta-alinine as well but I am unclear if it is even necessary when one is taking L-carnosine. I have noticed a definite improvement in skin tone since taking this supplement.

yeah i used to notice that too. btw have you read Michael's recent posts regarding carnosine / benfotiamine?

Soy Isoflavones- Actually DHT inhibitors are shown to reduce the risk of certain kinds of cancers significantly. Just google some research papers.

yes, it reduce certain kinds and increase certain kinds which is net-negative in my opinion.

Biocollagen/hyaluranic acid-This is said to have low molecular weight and thus be more absorbable than normal Hyaluranic acid. I take the NSI brand. It is said to anecdotally increase circulating Hyaluranic acid levels. No studies to cite, just anecdote from people on the skin care forum.

And the two Amino Acids I mentioned I try to take in powdered form in a cup of organic tomato juice once or twice a day. Basically I just search Iherb or Vitacost for whatever brand is available at a good price.

but what do hyaluranic do? and the two aminos? why are you taking these?

[Forever21]

re: dairy

so dairy attacks the brain in two ways. by actively destroying it with its properties and blocking the brain-protective nutrients from food.

[Skötkonung]

re: dairy

so dairy attacks the brain in two ways. by actively destroying it with its properties and blocking the brain-protective nutrients from food.

Lets be specific, dairy sugar effects the brain. Dairy fat block nutrients from blue berries.

[Forever21]

and tea



Milk wrecks the health benefits of tea

[ajnast4r]

Lets be specific, dairy sugar effects the brain. Dairy fat block nutrients from blue berries.

fat? do you mean protein?

[Skötkonung]

Lets be specific, dairy sugar effects the brain. Dairy fat block nutrients from blue berries.

fat? do you mean protein?

No, I mean fat. Skim milk has less effect on absorption of blueberry antioxidants than whole milk. The authors hypothesized that something in milk fat was responsible.

The main question that comes to mind is this, was pasteurized or raw milk used in the study? If it was pasteurized, the milk was definitely void of important nutrients such as naturally occurring beneficial bacteria, enzymes, amino acids, vitamins and minerals that may have made all the difference in the world whether the bioavailability of the phenolics in the blueberries was properly absorbed or not. Another question that comes to mind is, even if raw milk produces the same results, what type of food sources and man-made chemicals did the animals ingest that might possibly affect the concentration and absorption rates of plant phenolic compounds? Of course, water is always the best solvent fluid choice. Nothing does a better job of distributing nutrients to where they are needed the most than water. Unfortunately, it doesn't taste real great poured over your cereal.

I will obviously be playing it safe and separating my cheese intake from my berry and tea intake. I still think there is a benefit from consuming some whole fat dairy that has been strained to remove excess carbohydrate and produced using raw milk. Unfortunately, I can't stomach natto, which seems like a more cogent choice than dairy.

Edited by Skötkonung, 24 June 2010 - 04:07 PM.

[Sillewater]

J Immunotoxicol. 2010 Jan 6. [Epub ahead of print]

Toxic effects of d-galactose on thymus and spleen that resemble aging.
Uddin MN, Nishio N, Ito S, Suzuki H, Isobe KI.

Department of Immunology, Nagoya University Graduate School of Medicine, Nagoya University, Nagoya, Japan.

Abstract
Continuous low-dose injection of d-galactose induces changes in mice that resemble accelerated aging. As such, these mice have been used as models to study mechanisms of aging. Here, we examined whether repeated (daily, for 60 days) subcutaneous injections (at 50 mg d-galactose/kg) into young adult (i.e., 2-month-old) mice induced changes in key immune system organs that were on par with those associated with aging. The results showed that galactose-treated mice develop histologic changes in their thymic cortical and medullary regions; immunohistochemical analysis revealed unorganized distributions of keratin-5 and keratin-8 proteins in the thymus of these hosts. These histological changes in the thymus of d-galactose-treated mice were also observed in the organs of aged (i.e., 24-month-old control mice); however, in this latter group, these changes were accompanied by a strong infiltration of adipose cells. Galactose-treated mice also evinced alterations within their splenic white and red pulp. Further, ultrastructural analyses of the thymus and spleen of the treated mice revealed increases in irregularly shaped lymphocytes bearing visible pyknosis. It was also seen that levels of autophagy within thymic epithelial cells were greatly decreased in the tissues of the galactose-treated mice, an outcome also seen in aged mice. Lastly, the level of memory T-lymphocytes and percentage of IgM-B220-B-lymphocytes in spleens of the galactose-treated mice were both increased (albeit insignificantly so) relative to values among splenocytes of age-matched control; however, these levels were not clealy as elevated as would be expected in "elderly" mice. Taken together, our results strongly suggest that d-galactose treatment can induce structural changes in the thymus and spleen, and some changes in organ-associated cell phenotypes, that are similar to several effects seen with aging. However, the fact that many endpoints do not appear to be truly reflective of what should be seen in immune system organs/cells of "elderly" mice now calls into question the appropriateness of the use of d-galactose (i.e., is it histologically/immunotoxicologically-proper?) to create age-mimicry in mice.

PMID: 20050818 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]

J Immunotoxicol. 2010 Jan 6. [Epub ahead of print]

Toxic effects of d-galactose on thymus and spleen that resemble aging.
Uddin MN, Nishio N, Ito S, Suzuki H, Isobe KI.

Department of Immunology, Nagoya University Graduate School of Medicine, Nagoya University, Nagoya, Japan.

Abstract
Continuous low-dose injection of d-galactose induces changes in mice that resemble accelerated aging. As such, these mice have been used as models to study mechanisms of aging. Here, we examined whether repeated (daily, for 60 days) subcutaneous injections (at 50 mg d-galactose/kg) into young adult (i.e., 2-month-old) mice induced changes in key immune system organs that were on par with those associated with aging. The results showed that galactose-treated mice develop histologic changes in their thymic cortical and medullary regions; immunohistochemical analysis revealed unorganized distributions of keratin-5 and keratin-8 proteins in the thymus of these hosts. These histological changes in the thymus of d-galactose-treated mice were also observed in the organs of aged (i.e., 24-month-old control mice); however, in this latter group, these changes were accompanied by a strong infiltration of adipose cells. Galactose-treated mice also evinced alterations within their splenic white and red pulp. Further, ultrastructural analyses of the thymus and spleen of the treated mice revealed increases in irregularly shaped lymphocytes bearing visible pyknosis. It was also seen that levels of autophagy within thymic epithelial cells were greatly decreased in the tissues of the galactose-treated mice, an outcome also seen in aged mice. Lastly, the level of memory T-lymphocytes and percentage of IgM-B220-B-lymphocytes in spleens of the galactose-treated mice were both increased (albeit insignificantly so) relative to values among splenocytes of age-matched control; however, these levels were not clealy as elevated as would be expected in "elderly" mice. Taken together, our results strongly suggest that d-galactose treatment can induce structural changes in the thymus and spleen, and some changes in organ-associated cell phenotypes, that are similar to several effects seen with aging. However, the fact that many endpoints do not appear to be truly reflective of what should be seen in immune system organs/cells of "elderly" mice now calls into question the appropriateness of the use of d-galactose (i.e., is it histologically/immunotoxicologically-proper?) to create age-mimicry in mice.

PMID: 20050818 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]

It seems like a pretty low dosage for the mice. Do we process galactose differently? Mice don't usually drink milk.

Maybe our gut can protect us:

Exp Gerontol. 2009 Dec;44(12):760-5. Epub 2009 Sep 6.


Effect of LTA isolated from bifidobacteria on D-galactose-induced aging.
Yi ZJ, Fu YR, Li M, Gao KS, Zhang XG.

Department of Laboratory Medicine of Clinical Faculty, Weifang Medical University, Weifang, China.


Abstract
BACKGROUND: Bifidobacteria are a natural part of the bacterial flora in the human body and have a symbiotic bacteria-host relationship with human beings. Aging is associated with reduced number of beneficial colonic bifidobacteria and impaired immunity. Lipoteichoic acid is a major constituent of the cell wall of bifidobacteria which is important for bacterial survival, growth, and function. The possible anti-aging effects of lipoteichoic acid isolated from bifidobacteria is presently unknown. OBJECTIVE: The aim of the present study was to investigate possible anti-aging effects of lipoteichoic acid isolated from bifidobacteria on senescent mice artificially induced by chronic injection of d-galactose and explore potential anti-aging's mechanisms. METHODS: Mice were artificially induced senescence by consecutive injection of d-galactose (100mg/kg) once daily for 7weeks and lipoteichoic acid from bifidobacterium bifidum, was simultaneously administered to them once a week by intraperitoneal infusion. Mice were sacrificed, blood and other samples were collected at the indicated time. Anti-oxidation activity in brain, histology of tissue, gene expression, lymphocyte's DNA damage and cytokine production of lymphocytes in vitro and in vivo were measured. RESULTS: Lipoteichoic acid could significantly improve general appearance of the aging model mice, improve anti-oxidation activity in brain, increase IL-2 level and decrease TNF-alpha level in vitro and in vivo, respectively. Besides, LTA remarkably inhibited DNA damage in the both splenic lymphocytes and circulating lymphocytes. Moreover, LTA could decrease p16 expression while increase c-fos expression in the d-galactose treated mice. CONCLUSION: Taken together, the results indicated, for the first time, that LTA could suppress the aging process via the following several mechanisms, including enhancement of anti-oxidation activity in brain, improvement of immune function and alteration of gene expression.

PMID: 19735715 [PubMed - in process]

In any case we'll have to go through the references that MR posted in the original post.

Edited by Sillewater, 24 June 2010 - 07:32 PM.

[Skötkonung]

Galactose seems to induce aging effects via glycation, similar to fructose. Both fructose and galactose seem equally as bad.

Disturbed Galactose Metabolism in Elderly and Diabetic Humans Is Associated with Cataract Formation [PDF]

Long-term fructose consumption accelerates glycation and several age-related variables in male rats

The better you function metabolically, the less of a problem galactose / fructose will pose. I'm not worried about trace amounts based on what I've seen, but I won't be drinking milk either.

[ajnast4r]

Unfortunately, I can't stomach natto, which seems like a more cogent choice than dairy.

interesting. i bought some natto a while back and couldnt get myself to eat it.

[e Volution]

OK so a little help for the mere mortal immortalist: blueberries + fat = not optimal? Or is it just dairy fat (what's the difference?)? If it's the former this is a concern to me because I have made one of my daily health staples a shake consisting of coconut milk, 1/2 cup blueberries + 1/2 cup mixed berries and whey protein (+ various other extras). Should I be rethinking this daily health staple?

[FunkOdyssey]

OK so a little help for the mere mortal immortalist: blueberries + fat = not optimal? Or is it just dairy fat (what's the difference?)? If it's the former this is a concern to me because I have made one of my daily health staples a shake consisting of coconut milk, 1/2 cup blueberries + 1/2 cup mixed berries and whey protein (+ various other extras). Should I be rethinking this daily health staple?

That study identified milk fat as the culprit, however in the "milk destroys tea benefits" scenario I believe it is the casein that is problematic. So whey protein isolate, devoid of both dairy fat and casein, should probably be fine to mix with antioxidant polyphenols.

[e Volution]

@FunkOdyssey so the major component of dairy fat is SAFA which is also the main fat in coconut milk... Is it reasonable to assume coconut milk will also be blocking nutrients from blue berries?

[Skötkonung]

@FunkOdyssey so the major component of dairy fat is SAFA which is also the main fat in coconut milk... Is it reasonable to assume coconut milk will also be blocking nutrients from blue berries?

Think about it, why doesn't chocolate, coconut, and cream all taste the same? They are all saturated, right? Well, there is a lot more to milk fat than simply fat. There are peptides, enzymes, things like bovine xanthine oxidase from the milk fat globular membrane, etc, etc.

Fat actually helps the absorption of most nutrients.

[FunkOdyssey]

@FunkOdyssey so the major component of dairy fat is SAFA which is also the main fat in coconut milk... Is it reasonable to assume coconut milk will also be blocking nutrients from blue berries?

No, I don't think that is something you should assume. If saturated fat, regardless of source, reduced the bioavailability of polyphenols I think that would be known already.

[Rick Moranis]

OK so a little help for the mere mortal immortalist: blueberries + fat = not optimal? Or is it just dairy fat (what's the difference?)? If it's the former this is a concern to me because I have made one of my daily health staples a shake consisting of coconut milk, 1/2 cup blueberries + 1/2 cup mixed berries and whey protein (+ various other extras). Should I be rethinking this daily health staple?

That study identified milk fat as the culprit, however in the "milk destroys tea benefits" scenario I believe it is the casein that is problematic. So whey protein isolate, devoid of both dairy fat and casein, should probably be fine to mix with antioxidant polyphenols.

Casein and now soy.

Vascular effects (tea catechins) of tea are suppressed by soy milk in vitro
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/19268288

Edited by Rick Moranis, 26 June 2010 - 04:34 AM.

[e Volution]

Casein and now soy.

Vascular effects (tea catechins) of tea are suppressed by soy milk in vitro
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/19268288

This is what I am worried about, ok so SAFA shouldn't pose a problem, but what about Coconut Milk? Or any of the other substances many of us probably ingest along side our blueberries and various other polyphenols on a daily basis? I guess I am just worried about seeing in 10 years the headline above but with soy/dairy milk replaced with coconut milk!

[TheFountain]

Why is heavy cream always ultra-pastuerized? And is there any fundamental difference between 'organic' heavy cream and non-organic heavy cream?

[niner]

Why is heavy cream always ultra-pastuerized? And is there any fundamental difference between 'organic' heavy cream and non-organic heavy cream?

I think it's ultra-pasteurized because people tend to use it slowly, so it needs a longer shelf life. (Unless they're Paleo ImmInsters who drink it straight from the carton...) Difference between 'organic' and non? Cost. As far as I'm concerned, it's either grass-fed or it's not. If the cows are fed 'organic' corn, it's still bad.