148 replies to this topic

[illuminatus104]

I think you'd be better off not using steroids. They increase your risk of injury....Unless you're an elite athlete, I really don't think steroids are worth it. I've done pro hormones before and made some serious gains, but nothing beats a high calorie diet and learning how to lift weights properly. I weigh 153 lbs right now and know I could shoot up to 170 in 2 months without putting on a huge amount of fat just because I know how to eat and use the weights. Gaining muscle is a skill. Cultivate it. Focus on what you're doing

Edited by illuminatus104, 06 July 2013 - 04:57 AM.

[Raptor87]

I've used juice for years. I'd never touch orals again, but straight test is gold for my body. Orals are way too hard on the body. A50's make you huge, but they hurt the body too much.

On a side note, has anyone ever used a myostatin inhibitor? If i could find a safe source for that, i would give it a shot.

Weren´t the human trials indicating that it didn't work and wasn't the drug discontinued? I think there is no legit copycat producer out there. Otherwise I'd be on that stuff 2! I think one needs the gene!They tested Flex wheeler for that specific signal in the body and test's showed that he was naturally low, so people roiding trying to look like Flex is almost an impossibility.

There seems to be a market for AVCR2B, the problem is getting a legit source, question is if it even exists.

Edited by Brainfogged, 10 July 2013 - 10:03 AM.

[pleb]

There are a number of MYO inhibitors, the one that didn't work was that developed by Wyeth Pharma called MYO 029 the others are Follistatin 344 and ACE 031 they do work, but like anything else the exact amount to take is really unknown, and guess work but as much as possible the Myostatin needs dropping by at least 40 to 60 percent for muscles to increase, i think you also need to take IGF 1 long 3 at the same time,
you need to take the IGF to cause proliferation of the satellite cells other wise the ACE or Follistatin is only able to work with the satellite cells you have,they need to be increased,
avcr2b is whats now called ACE 031
pro peptides in canada sell it as does DRS labs Germany DRS labs in the UK have been out of stock for some time,

Edited by pleb, 10 July 2013 - 10:14 AM.

[Raptor87]

There are a number of MYO inhibitors, the one that didn't work was that developed by Wyeth Pharma called MYO 029 the others are Follistatin 344 and ACE 031 they do work, but like anything else the exact amount to take is really unknown, and guess work but as much as possible the Myostatin needs dropping by at least 40 to 60 percent for muscles to increase, i think you also need to take IGF 1 long 3 at the same time,
you need to take the IGF to cause proliferation of the satellite cells other wise the ACE or Follistatin is only able to work with the satellite cells you have,they need to be increased,
avcr2b is whats now called ACE 031
pro peptides in canada sell it as does DRS labs Germany DRS labs in the UK have been out of stock for some time,

I read some anecdotes from a quy using the stuff. Although from a former steroid user, it's hard to say if it works. But he said it does and without side effects. I hope this board is kept updated about these peptides.

[pleb]

yes I have used it i posted on another thread in the health section about my results after a month, 500mcg every 2 weeks of ACE and 11mcg a day of IGF 4 weeks on 2 weeks off i'm upping this to 20 mcg 4 weeks on and 4 off as i think two weeks off doesn't give the IGF receptors on the muscles enough time to recover,

i intended continuing with the slightly different amounts but circumstances put this off for a while i had an accident with the IGF and lost most of it so wasn't able to use it the second month,

I've now bought enough ACE for ten weeks at 500mcg a week after further reading indicating it stays in the body for 20 days but drops of quickly after 5 days,hence my upping it to 500mcg every week,,

at the moment I'm just getting over a viral infection, and also had to wait 2 months to get the second vials of ACE as it was out of stock, plus another vial of IGF,
also similar anecdotal reports that used with Follistatin it gives even better results, as they work by different pathways, one guy on a bb forum put on over a pound a day,

I've always been skinny, until a couple of months ago i looked like a skinny 14 year old and can't lift weights as i have thin retinas any weight lifting could cause them to split,i now look like a 17 year old who is just starting to build up from my original size i estimate about 50 to 60 percent over the time i was on it,
this is just a personal trail to see if they work and put muscle on without doing the gym work, but i do think you also need the IGF for the reasons stated in the earlier post and plenty of protein,
also at my age my liver doesn't produce much IGF at all. if your in your 20's and your body through the HGH pathways to the liver does produce IGF you may not need the extra IGF,

[Raptor87]

yes I have used it i posted on another thread in the health section about my results after a month, 500mcg every 2 weeks of ACE and 11mcg a day of IGF 4 weeks on 2 weeks off i'm upping this to 20 mcg 4 weeks on and 4 off as i think two weeks off doesn't give the IGF receptors on the muscles enough time to recover,

i intended continuing with the slightly different amounts but circumstances put this off for a while i had an accident with the IGF and lost most of it so wasn't able to use it the second month,

I've now bought enough ACE for ten weeks at 500mcg a week after further reading indicating it stays in the body for 20 days but drops of quickly after 5 days,hence my upping it to 500mcg every week,,

at the moment I'm just getting over a viral infection, and also had to wait 2 months to get the second vials of ACE as it was out of stock, plus another vial of IGF,
also similar anecdotal reports that used with Follistatin it gives even better results, as they work by different pathways, one guy on a bb forum put on over a pound a day,

I've always been skinny, until a couple of months ago i looked like a skinny 14 year old and can't lift weights as i have thin retinas any weight lifting could cause them to split,i now look like a 17 year old who is just starting to build up from my original size i estimate about 50 to 60 percent over the time i was on it,
this is just a personal trail to see if they work and put muscle on without doing the gym work, but i do think you also need the IGF for the reasons stated in the earlier post and plenty of protein,
also at my age my liver doesn't produce much IGF at all. if your in your 20's and your body through the HGH pathways to the liver does produce IGF you may not need the extra IGF,

I'm glad that it works for you, unbelievable that you put on weight without training. I would recommend doing some home exercising (there's a lot of home exercise programs out there) to see if you also gain strength. It most cost a fortune though.

[pleb]

Hi Thanks for your comments, it is a one off experiment the first lot was 2 vials of ACE and one Vial of IGF1 long 3, plus extra whey protein, plus insulin syringes the throw away type 100 to a box plus wipes, for the injection site,
excluding the whey probably about 180 UK pounds , but despite the setback in the second month the results were encouraging enough to get the larger amounts for a second trail, hopefully this time without the set backs,
ACE is about 50 pounds a vial, IGF anywhere between about 60 to 80 but only one vial is needed,

the idea behind MYO inhibitors originally was to treat Kids with muscular dystrophy who can't exercise,

the IGF ether natural or as a peptide in combination actually builds new muscle.( hyperplasia ) normal weight training with any substance or supps steroids etc only enlarge the muscle you already have ( hypertrophy) IGF builds new muscle over and above that genetic muscle,
that's why you get the increase without exercise, and it only increases skeletal muscle cells not fat or any other part of the body

i do agree that i will have to do some exercise to get toned up so i'm planning squats and inclined press ups

i think it was one of the biochemists from Wyeth who said he thought increasing follistatin was probably the best way to go when MYO 029 didn't do what was promised,

ACE doesn't actually block Myostatin it acts as a decoy, myostatin normally attaches itself to the IGF1 in the blood stream stopping a great deal of it getting to the cell receptors the ACE when in the blood stream attracts the Myo to itself allowing more IGF to reach the receptors, producing more cell proliferation at least that's the idea behind it,

[nowayout]

These research chemicals are such a crap shoot. Maybe that guy was putting on a pound a day from water retention due to kidney failure from impurities in the product.

Another guy who ran one of the informal economy rHGH labs recently died from organ failure ascribable to the products he was selling.

Yet another guy who is famous for pioneering the use of GHRPs (growth hormone releasing peptides - google this subject and his articles will appear all over) now suffers from chronic fatigue syndrome after years of use.

Edited by nowayout, 11 July 2013 - 02:08 PM.

[pleb]

that's the choice you make taking any substance, not its normal effects which are known but how pure it is and where it was made,

who made the diagnosis that it was the peptides that caused the troubles most doctors and anyone else still have no idea what causes chronic fatigue syndrome,,try asking any doctor,

as for a death that's a possibility with anything you take into your body,especially from impurities, look at the damage statins have caused yet even this week in the news scientists are still saying it is perfectly safe,

but I'm not planning on taking them for years just a few months to see if they work, the kids that were in the trails for ACE were between the age 's of 4 and 10 years old, apart from a couple with nose bleeds and one with gum bleeding it had no other sides

there's a lot of misinformation out on the web and quite a few doggy companies especially in china where most if not all the cheap stuff like anabol nandrol etc come from, like anything else you have to do your homework on this,,

[nowayout]

who made the diagnosis that it was the peptides that caused the troubles most doctors and anyone else still have no idea what causes chronic fatigue syndrome,,try asking any doctor,

Yes, but still, it's like Atkins dying of heart disease.

[pleb]

I'm not a bb'r so i haven't heard of Atkins, but i'll do a search i have read about a few over the years who have suffered with heart problems and who have died including a couple of WWF wrestlers, most it seems already had a minor heart problem which was unknown until they died but increased to a criticle state by weight training , but that was before peptides were freely available other than HGH, but the heart can be damaged by Hypertrophy as it is a muscle it may be that is the reason for certain supps that bb'rs take to lessen the effect of weigh training effecting the heart,

Edited by pleb, 11 July 2013 - 08:32 PM.

[nowayout]

I'm talking of the Atkins of the Atkins diet.

[pleb]

LOL sorry about that i just didn't think you were talking about that Atkins, i remember he died but with various theories as to what caused it,

[xks201]

Isn't it clear that an aging body cannot work like it used to if hormone levels are less than youthful?

Not completely true. For instance, HGH is involved in allowing the human body to grow to it's set limit, but if it were to remain on indefinitely, one would continue to grow as some fish or reptiles do. This is seen in bodybuilders who use HGH, where internal organs as well as muscles grow larger. You can actually see this by looking for the "potbelly" on bodybuilders, where organ growth actually makes them appear to have a gut, even though their body fat may be quite low. Enlarged hearts, kidneys, and etc don't function as they should, causing a number of health issues, and shortening life span.

While I'm not making a BLANKET statement about all hormones, just because a hormone is higher when one is younger doesn't mean that it should be added back when you are older.

Not true. Growth plates close around the age of 20 and only the head and hands and feet will grow. And that is with huge HGH levels. Bodybuilders use 5-10 ius a day as a dose. You would be using 1-3. No sides.

[pleb]

I agree with xks all our hormones reduce as we age but replacing them can help a lot in helping the body,rejuvenate
the New England school of medicine did a trail in 1990 which showed that,
the extended bone growth you mention is acromegaly some people already have that (jaws in the bond film) and extra HGH has caused problems for people with it, it was one of the Trails quoted by the FDA showing the effect of HGH in huge doses that they used to get it banned,,
also as a treatment for dwarfism kids take as much as 7 IU a day none stop for up to 2 years burns victims are given 8 iu a day and thats on top of what they already produce,
its not HGH that builds muscle its IGF-1 which is produced by the liver as a result of taking HGH, a lot of BB'rs are now going over to IGF-1 in various versions as it is still legal whilst HGH is not unless you have a prescription (in the US) and IGF-1 only works on satalite cells in muscles

Edited by pleb, 18 July 2013 - 07:47 AM.

[madanthony]

Isn't it clear that an aging body cannot work like it used to if hormone levels are less than youthful?

Not completely true. For instance, HGH is involved in allowing the human body to grow to it's set limit, but if it were to remain on indefinitely, one would continue to grow as some fish or reptiles do. This is seen in bodybuilders who use HGH, where internal organs as well as muscles grow larger. You can actually see this by looking for the "potbelly" on bodybuilders, where organ growth actually makes them appear to have a gut, even though their body fat may be quite low. Enlarged hearts, kidneys, and etc don't function as they should, causing a number of health issues, and shortening life span.

While I'm not making a BLANKET statement about all hormones, just because a hormone is higher when one is younger doesn't mean that it should be added back when you are older.

This reminded me of something I heard which I think is snicker-worthy...I heard that indeed your EARS never stop growing. We'll just have to see as we get old!

[Maecenas]

I wonder why anybody would need steroids unless he is a professional athlete. If you want to become very muscular and big you can make that with a right diet and training . Steroids can play havoc with your hormonal balance and cause a lot of serious health problems. Many professional bodybuilders have health problems primarily connected with diet very high in protein and steroid use.

[nowayout]

I wonder why anybody would need steroids unless he is a professional athlete. If you want to become very muscular and big you can make that with a right diet and training .

That is only true for a minority of men, thus answering your question and explaining the popularity of steroids.

[Raptor87]

I wonder why anybody would need steroids unless he is a professional athlete. If you want to become very muscular and big you can make that with a right diet and training . Steroids can play havoc with your hormonal balance and cause a lot of serious health problems. Many professional bodybuilders have health problems primarily connected with diet very high in protein and steroid use.

[ghamal]

Yes, but still, it's like Atkins dying of heart disease.

Atkins did not die of Heart Disease, he died of a head injury from falling on an icy sidewalk.

[nowayout]

Yes, but still, it's like Atkins dying of heart disease.

Atkins did not die of Heart Disease, he died of a head injury from falling on an icy sidewalk.

My mistake. But though he didn't die of heart disease, he had heart disease before his accident.

[ghamal]

My mistake. But though he didn't die of heart disease, he had heart disease before his accident.

Caused by complications from an infection and cardiomyopathy, not due to his diet.

Edited by ghamal, 24 December 2013 - 12:32 AM.

[Brainy]

I was watching a documentary of dorian yates. He won mr olympia 6 times. He was talking about steroids and saying that he took steroids for about 20 years without stopping. And when you are a top performing atheltes like him.... you abuse every substance. So he said that he was taking HUGE amount of steroids for about 20 years....

 

He always was followed by a doctor and he was doing blood work very often. If is doctor would see something in his blood he would pull him off the steroids right away. Well, nothing happend for 20 years!

 

Then he went on to comparing adam spurlock, the guy that did supersize me. After eating mcdonalds 3 times a day for only a few days, is doctor was begging him to stop or is life was in danger! Can you believe that... 20 years of steroids abuse vs a few days of fast food!
 

But im not a doctor

Edited by Brainy, 21 April 2014 - 12:43 PM.

[LaViidaLocaa]

 

I wonder why anybody would need steroids unless he is a professional athlete. If you want to become very muscular and big you can make that with a right diet and training . Steroids can play havoc with your hormonal balance and cause a lot of serious health problems. Many professional bodybuilders have health problems primarily connected with diet very high in protein and steroid use.

 

 

Interesting video, even though it seems a bit old. I doubt the evidence against steroids is solely 'anecdotal'. The fact that the few people in the video seem not to have had any health problems in the past 20-40 years, doesn't mean much and is also anecdotal.

If it wasn't harmful, the pharmaceutical companies would have already jumped onto it. They even sell life-threatening medication, for god's sake! Nonetheless, I am curious what, if any, is the real truth behind this.

[Raptor87]

 

 

I wonder why anybody would need steroids unless he is a professional athlete. If you want to become very muscular and big you can make that with a right diet and training . Steroids can play havoc with your hormonal balance and cause a lot of serious health problems. Many professional bodybuilders have health problems primarily connected with diet very high in protein and steroid use.

 

 

Interesting video, even though it seems a bit old. I doubt the evidence against steroids is solely 'anecdotal'. The fact that the few people in the video seem not to have had any health problems in the past 20-40 years, doesn't mean much and is also anecdotal.

If it wasn't harmful, the pharmaceutical companies would have already jumped onto it. They even sell life-threatening medication, for god's sake! Nonetheless, I am curious what, if any, is the real truth behind this.

 

 

The problem is that nobody can patent the drugs because they are already out there. Then there is the issue with sports and competition and human results. Where does the competition end and the drug begin? I guess it would be a drugs race in sports with who has the best cocktail of steroids to lift his athletic abilities. There's too much money involved in sports and competition so steroids is probably the biggest threat to making money for certain sponsors. Then there is the issue with people who become their own doctors, and we all have seen the freaks pumping in too much silicone and synthol in their muscles. It's just sad! I think the question with steroids is more ethical and of making money rather than a question of health. 

 

If you look up Dorian Yates, I think he used steroids for more than 2 decades and is fine. But he used only a few compounds at low dosages and did not use GH/insulin! 

 

Also check out these articles. 

 

http://www.ourstolen...avisonetal.html

 

http://press.endocri...10/jc.2006-1375

 

View on Vimeo.

Edited by Brainfogged, 27 April 2014 - 11:34 AM.

[LaViidaLocaa]

 

 

I wonder why anybody would need steroids unless he is a professional athlete. If you want to become very muscular and big you can make that with a right diet and training . Steroids can play havoc with your hormonal balance and cause a lot of serious health problems. Many professional bodybuilders have health problems primarily connected with diet very high in protein and steroid use.

 

 
Interesting video, even though it seems a bit old. I doubt the evidence against steroids is solely 'anecdotal'. The fact that the few people in the video seem not to have had any health problems in the past 20-40 years, doesn't mean much and is also anecdotal.
If it wasn't harmful, the pharmaceutical companies would have already jumped onto it. They even sell life-threatening medication, for god's sake! Nonetheless, I am curious what, if any, is the real truth behind this.
 

 
The problem is that nobody can patent the drugs because they are already out there. Then there is the issue with sports and competition and human results. Where does the competition end and the drug begin? I guess it would be a drugs race in sports with who has the best cocktail of steroids to lift his athletic abilities. There's too much money involved in sports and competition so steroids is probably the biggest threat to making money for certain sponsors. Then there is the issue with people who become their own doctors, and we all have seen the freaks pumping in too much silicone and synthol in their muscles. It's just sad! I think the question with steroids is more ethical and of making money rather than a question of health. 
 
If you look up Dorian Yates, I think he used steroids for more than 2 decades and is fine. But he used only a few compounds at low dosages and did not use GH/insulin! 
 
Also check out these articles. 
 
http://www.ourstolen...avisonetal.html
 
http://press.endocri...10/jc.2006-1375
 

View on Vimeo.

I agree that the decline in T is disturbing. To my own surprise, even though I am only 19 and lift weights while building muscle and strength and not showing any symptoms of hypogonadism, I had low T levels, especially for my age AND during the morning (when T is supposed to be higher).
My doctor and endocrinologist say that I don't have to do anything about it and I should just 'wait and see' until my next bloodwork in a couple months.
I am not against restoring T levels per se, I am just a bit conspicious as far as health is concerned.

[nowayout]

 

 

 

 

I wonder why anybody would need steroids unless he is a professional athlete. If you want to become very muscular and big you can make that with a right diet and training . Steroids can play havoc with your hormonal balance and cause a lot of serious health problems. Many professional bodybuilders have health problems primarily connected with diet very high in protein and steroid use.

 

 
Interesting video, even though it seems a bit old. I doubt the evidence against steroids is solely 'anecdotal'. The fact that the few people in the video seem not to have had any health problems in the past 20-40 years, doesn't mean much and is also anecdotal.
If it wasn't harmful, the pharmaceutical companies would have already jumped onto it. They even sell life-threatening medication, for god's sake! Nonetheless, I am curious what, if any, is the real truth behind this.
 

 
The problem is that nobody can patent the drugs because they are already out there. Then there is the issue with sports and competition and human results. Where does the competition end and the drug begin? I guess it would be a drugs race in sports with who has the best cocktail of steroids to lift his athletic abilities. There's too much money involved in sports and competition so steroids is probably the biggest threat to making money for certain sponsors. Then there is the issue with people who become their own doctors, and we all have seen the freaks pumping in too much silicone and synthol in their muscles. It's just sad! I think the question with steroids is more ethical and of making money rather than a question of health. 
 
If you look up Dorian Yates, I think he used steroids for more than 2 decades and is fine. But he used only a few compounds at low dosages and did not use GH/insulin! 
 
Also check out these articles. 
 
http://www.ourstolen...avisonetal.html
 
http://press.endocri...10/jc.2006-1375
 

View on Vimeo.

I agree that the decline in T is disturbing. To my own surprise, even though I am only 19 and lift weights while building muscle and strength and not showing any symptoms of hypogonadism, I had low T levels, especially for my age AND during the morning (when T is supposed to be higher).
My doctor and endocrinologist say that I don't have to do anything about it and I should just 'wait and see' until my next bloodwork in a couple months.
I am not against restoring T levels per se, I am just a bit conspicious as far as health is concerned.

 

 

Since you are not showing any symptoms, you really should not worry about it.  And average T levels in young men are not really as high as some internet sources (who have a stake in selling people supplements or TRT) would have you believe. 

 

I have seen studies in which T levels in young elite athletes were in the 400s.  Another study finding average T levels of a group of young men in the 500s.  The people on the internet trying to have you believe that they "should" be above, say,  800 in young men don't know what they are talking about and are just creating a new generation of hypochondriacs. 

 

[LaViidaLocaa]

 

 

 

 

 

I wonder why anybody would need steroids unless he is a professional athlete. If you want to become very muscular and big you can make that with a right diet and training . Steroids can play havoc with your hormonal balance and cause a lot of serious health problems. Many professional bodybuilders have health problems primarily connected with diet very high in protein and steroid use.

 

 
Interesting video, even though it seems a bit old. I doubt the evidence against steroids is solely 'anecdotal'. The fact that the few people in the video seem not to have had any health problems in the past 20-40 years, doesn't mean much and is also anecdotal.
If it wasn't harmful, the pharmaceutical companies would have already jumped onto it. They even sell life-threatening medication, for god's sake! Nonetheless, I am curious what, if any, is the real truth behind this.
 

 
The problem is that nobody can patent the drugs because they are already out there. Then there is the issue with sports and competition and human results. Where does the competition end and the drug begin? I guess it would be a drugs race in sports with who has the best cocktail of steroids to lift his athletic abilities. There's too much money involved in sports and competition so steroids is probably the biggest threat to making money for certain sponsors. Then there is the issue with people who become their own doctors, and we all have seen the freaks pumping in too much silicone and synthol in their muscles. It's just sad! I think the question with steroids is more ethical and of making money rather than a question of health. 
 
If you look up Dorian Yates, I think he used steroids for more than 2 decades and is fine. But he used only a few compounds at low dosages and did not use GH/insulin! 
 
Also check out these articles. 
 
http://www.ourstolen...avisonetal.html
 
http://press.endocri...10/jc.2006-1375
 

View on Vimeo.

I agree that the decline in T is disturbing. To my own surprise, even though I am only 19 and lift weights while building muscle and strength and not showing any symptoms of hypogonadism, I had low T levels, especially for my age AND during the morning (when T is supposed to be higher).
My doctor and endocrinologist say that I don't have to do anything about it and I should just 'wait and see' until my next bloodwork in a couple months.
I am not against restoring T levels per se, I am just a bit conspicious as far as health is concerned.

 

 

Since you are not showing any symptoms, you really should not worry about it.  And average T levels in young men are not really as high as some internet sources (who have a stake in selling people supplements or TRT) would have you believe. 

 

I have seen studies in which T levels in young elite athletes were in the 400s.  Another study finding average T levels of a group of young men in the 500s.  The people on the internet trying to have you believe that they "should" be above, say,  800 in young men don't know what they are talking about and are just creating a new generation of hypochondriacs. 

 

 

 

I wasn't talking about the sources that try to sell TRT, actually. My first T levels (about 5 weeks ago) were around 140. 2 weeks later, at the endocrinologist, it was 330, which is rather low, considering my age (19), lifestyle (enough rest, no stress, always in a good mood) and diet (healthy, no soy or other estrogen-increasing products).

I am not worrying about it, I'll just have to wait until next time to see if it's still low.

[Raptor87]

 

 

 

 

 

 

I wonder why anybody would need steroids unless he is a professional athlete. If you want to become very muscular and big you can make that with a right diet and training . Steroids can play havoc with your hormonal balance and cause a lot of serious health problems. Many professional bodybuilders have health problems primarily connected with diet very high in protein and steroid use.

 

 
Interesting video, even though it seems a bit old. I doubt the evidence against steroids is solely 'anecdotal'. The fact that the few people in the video seem not to have had any health problems in the past 20-40 years, doesn't mean much and is also anecdotal.
If it wasn't harmful, the pharmaceutical companies would have already jumped onto it. They even sell life-threatening medication, for god's sake! Nonetheless, I am curious what, if any, is the real truth behind this.
 

 
The problem is that nobody can patent the drugs because they are already out there. Then there is the issue with sports and competition and human results. Where does the competition end and the drug begin? I guess it would be a drugs race in sports with who has the best cocktail of steroids to lift his athletic abilities. There's too much money involved in sports and competition so steroids is probably the biggest threat to making money for certain sponsors. Then there is the issue with people who become their own doctors, and we all have seen the freaks pumping in too much silicone and synthol in their muscles. It's just sad! I think the question with steroids is more ethical and of making money rather than a question of health. 
 
If you look up Dorian Yates, I think he used steroids for more than 2 decades and is fine. But he used only a few compounds at low dosages and did not use GH/insulin! 
 
Also check out these articles. 
 
http://www.ourstolen...avisonetal.html
 
http://press.endocri...10/jc.2006-1375
 

View on Vimeo.

I agree that the decline in T is disturbing. To my own surprise, even though I am only 19 and lift weights while building muscle and strength and not showing any symptoms of hypogonadism, I had low T levels, especially for my age AND during the morning (when T is supposed to be higher).
My doctor and endocrinologist say that I don't have to do anything about it and I should just 'wait and see' until my next bloodwork in a couple months.
I am not against restoring T levels per se, I am just a bit conspicious as far as health is concerned.

 

 

Since you are not showing any symptoms, you really should not worry about it.  And average T levels in young men are not really as high as some internet sources (who have a stake in selling people supplements or TRT) would have you believe. 

 

I have seen studies in which T levels in young elite athletes were in the 400s.  Another study finding average T levels of a group of young men in the 500s.  The people on the internet trying to have you believe that they "should" be above, say,  800 in young men don't know what they are talking about and are just creating a new generation of hypochondriacs. 

 

 

 

I wasn't talking about the sources that try to sell TRT, actually. My first T levels (about 5 weeks ago) were around 140. 2 weeks later, at the endocrinologist, it was 330, which is rather low, considering my age (19), lifestyle (enough rest, no stress, always in a good mood) and diet (healthy, no soy or other estrogen-increasing products).

I am not worrying about it, I'll just have to wait until next time to see if it's still low.

 

 

Just for the info! There is no such thing as Testosterone increasing supplement. A hormone deficit should always be treated by doctors and with the right medication. For low t- levels you should always be treated by an endocrinologist! The treatment usually follows with hormone replacement therapy with androgen steroids such as testosterone or peptides HCG (gonadotropin). The links I have provided are not done by some supplement company, the hormone drop among males is actual. 

 

Low T- levels is a condition that is important to treat regardless of what anyone says. Your doctor should take it seriously! 

 

This is the problem with the unscientific facts that media and kvacks tell us, even when there is an actual problem they wont treat it. We wouldn't have this discussion if it was any other hormone deficit. 

Edited by Brainfogged, 28 April 2014 - 03:57 PM.

[LaViidaLocaa]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I wonder why anybody would need steroids unless he is a professional athlete. If you want to become very muscular and big you can make that with a right diet and training . Steroids can play havoc with your hormonal balance and cause a lot of serious health problems. Many professional bodybuilders have health problems primarily connected with diet very high in protein and steroid use.

 

 
Interesting video, even though it seems a bit old. I doubt the evidence against steroids is solely 'anecdotal'. The fact that the few people in the video seem not to have had any health problems in the past 20-40 years, doesn't mean much and is also anecdotal.
If it wasn't harmful, the pharmaceutical companies would have already jumped onto it. They even sell life-threatening medication, for god's sake! Nonetheless, I am curious what, if any, is the real truth behind this.
 

 
The problem is that nobody can patent the drugs because they are already out there. Then there is the issue with sports and competition and human results. Where does the competition end and the drug begin? I guess it would be a drugs race in sports with who has the best cocktail of steroids to lift his athletic abilities. There's too much money involved in sports and competition so steroids is probably the biggest threat to making money for certain sponsors. Then there is the issue with people who become their own doctors, and we all have seen the freaks pumping in too much silicone and synthol in their muscles. It's just sad! I think the question with steroids is more ethical and of making money rather than a question of health. 
 
If you look up Dorian Yates, I think he used steroids for more than 2 decades and is fine. But he used only a few compounds at low dosages and did not use GH/insulin! 
 
Also check out these articles. 
 
http://www.ourstolen...avisonetal.html
 
http://press.endocri...10/jc.2006-1375
 

View on Vimeo.

I agree that the decline in T is disturbing. To my own surprise, even though I am only 19 and lift weights while building muscle and strength and not showing any symptoms of hypogonadism, I had low T levels, especially for my age AND during the morning (when T is supposed to be higher).
My doctor and endocrinologist say that I don't have to do anything about it and I should just 'wait and see' until my next bloodwork in a couple months.
I am not against restoring T levels per se, I am just a bit conspicious as far as health is concerned.

 

 

Since you are not showing any symptoms, you really should not worry about it.  And average T levels in young men are not really as high as some internet sources (who have a stake in selling people supplements or TRT) would have you believe. 

 

I have seen studies in which T levels in young elite athletes were in the 400s.  Another study finding average T levels of a group of young men in the 500s.  The people on the internet trying to have you believe that they "should" be above, say,  800 in young men don't know what they are talking about and are just creating a new generation of hypochondriacs. 

 

 

 

I wasn't talking about the sources that try to sell TRT, actually. My first T levels (about 5 weeks ago) were around 140. 2 weeks later, at the endocrinologist, it was 330, which is rather low, considering my age (19), lifestyle (enough rest, no stress, always in a good mood) and diet (healthy, no soy or other estrogen-increasing products).

I am not worrying about it, I'll just have to wait until next time to see if it's still low.

 

 

Just for the info! There is no such thing as Testosterone increasing supplement. A hormone deficit should always be treated by doctors and with the right medication. For low t- levels you should always be treated by an endocrinologist! The treatment usually follows with hormone replacement therapy with androgen steroids such as testosterone or peptides HCG (gonadotropin). The links I have provided are not done by some supplement company, the hormone drop among males is actual. 

 

Low T- levels is a condition that is important to treat regardless of what anyone says. Your doctor should take it seriously! 

 

This is the problem with the unscientific facts that media and kvacks tell us, even when there is an actual problem they wont treat it. We wouldn't have this discussion if it was any other hormone deficit. 

 

 

Yeah, I understand. However, there's not much (legal) for me to do, other than wait for my next bloodwork. Buying steroids online without a doctor checking up on me, is rather risky.

The main thing is that I don't have any (apparent) symptoms.