148 replies to this topic

[Boolean]

Robinson's body looks like a Crysis nanosuit. MAXIMUM ARMOR!

But yeah, you probably won't get an answer from Luminosity. My guess is that he saw the OP, and decided to just post his ignorance rather than read anything about facts. Which is the traditional form of information dispersal these days, sadly.

[Ron]

So are the sources you linked to for Longjack or the real deal? It looks like the one from Forest Health is a good bet and seems fairly economical. What is that, almost a 3-month supply?

Are you taking TA and if so, do you work out? Can you personally speak to the advantages you've seen from it?

Absolutely. Take it and you'll boost your testosterone. I do work out. Lots of studies out there. It just works. The sources I referenced were my suggestions but both are indeed good sources. It's not cheap. I take 2 capsules twice per day. 5 days on 2 days off for 2 months and then 2 weeks break and repeat the process. Barlow's you'll find has the best prices if you compare the two. 120 caps for $60 essentially compared to $89 for 100 caps of the same 1:200 extract. Dragon Herbs sells Sumatran TA but only 1:50 extract which is quite steep and what forced me to find better options. Google Serge Kreutz as he's got some interesting facts as to his personal experience with it. No side effects really other than the positive ones.

It's rare (for me) that a supplement has really tangible, undeniable effects, but this stuff definitely did. Tried two 2-week cycles to confirm. Thanks for the tip.

[unregistered_user]

What did you notice?

[Ron]

Mostly improved strength and off the charts libido.

[Designer Evolution]

Its very easy to abuse something like that first you take a little then you up the doses until you are addicted and in trouble. All im saying is be careful.

[Luminosity]

Nowheres is right. There's no need to debate what is obvious about steroids.

[VidX]

Nowheres is right. There's no need to debate what is obvious about steroids.

What is "obvious"?

[Boolean]

There's quite a few "test boosting" supps out there. Yes, TA will do it. Also check out Tribulus Terrestris which boosts your LH production to create more steroid hormones ie. testosterone and estrogen (and some others). You'll want to keep your estrogen in check as well, so try some DIM (Diindolylmethane). You can further boost your testosterone production by a third with DAA(D-Aspartic Acid).

This is a stack I use to "bridge" between my test cycles. I also use some stronger estrogen blockers and aromatase inhibitors but... that's beyond the scope of this.

Nowheres is right. There's no need to debate what is obvious about steroids.

troll harder bro.

Edited by Boolean, 09 January 2012 - 08:02 PM.

[The Immortalist]

There's quite a few "test boosting" supps out there. Yes, TA will do it. Also check out Tribulus Terrestris which boosts your LH production to create more steroid hormones ie. testosterone and estrogen (and some others). You'll want to keep your estrogen in check as well, so try some DIM (Diindolylmethane). You can further boost your testosterone production by a third with DAA(D-Aspartic Acid).

This is a stack I use to "bridge" between my test cycles. I also use some stronger estrogen blockers and aromatase inhibitors but... that's beyond the scope of this.

Nowheres is right. There's no need to debate what is obvious about steroids.

troll harder bro.

I don't want to use steroids or growth hormones because I don't think it's worth the risk. Besides I don't want to become a pro bodybuilder and also women are generally disgusted by "abnormal" levels of muscle mass.

Although I am interested in taking estrogen blockers and aromatase inhibitors....basically I'm interested in taking everything over the counter that can increase natural hormone levels and also decrease estrogen. Although a quick google search brought up toxicity issues for aromatase inhibitors such as an increased risk for osteoporosis....

[Boolean]

There is some misinformation here about the use of Anabolic hormones. A test cycle won't turn you into Jay Cutler or Ronnie Coleman. I've done two in my life at reasonable doses and I'm only 200 lbs. Girls seem genuinely attracted to me and by no means disgusted. I'm not saying you SHOULD do steroids. I'm just trying to dispell all this bad info. They aren't these evil horrible drugs that ruin families and cause roid rage. They won't turn you into a hulking monstrosity overnight. What I am saying is that hormone replacement is being used successfully in many many cases for so many great benefits... not just the vanity ones I use them for.

Aromatase inhibitors cause problems associated with estrogen deficiency only with long term and higher dosages. SERMS or estrogen blockers could have this effect as well, in addition to thrombosis but this is only rarely shown in cases of long term users of 5 or more years straight! (Women trying to get pregnant) TRT doses of test don't require AI's except in estrogen sensitive people. All the bad sides you're talking about are easily mitigated with smart, practical, and monitored use of not just the hormone but the PCT (post cycle therapy) as well.

One more thing worth mentioning... just because its OTC does not make it safe. Nolvadex XT by gaspari was a well known estrogen blocker. It was found to cause some pretty nasty liver damage. Not to mention... estrogen deficiency just like any estrogen blocker or AI will increase risk of osteoporosis.

Edited by Boolean, 10 January 2012 - 05:43 AM.

[VidX]

There must be a balance. Lack of estrogen may cause some serious issues (loss of libido would be one of the least worrying)...

[Boolean]

Lack of estrogen can and will cause issues, for sure... but for men that's mostly for long term, or chronic deficiency. Increased estrogen also comes with some pretty lovely side effects. Is there a balance? Sure. It's called homeostasis. If you don't like that as an answer (like me) and feel like manipulating that to achieve the results you desire, PLEASE make sure you know what you're doing. There's plenty of ways to do it safely and in moderation. If you want some ideas, please feel free to ask me. If I don't know the answer, I can find out for you, or I can point you to somebody who does know.

I only ask of one thing... leave the preconceived notions at the door.

[Orajel]

Dose does matter, but they will almost always cause supression. A few months ago I finished a 5 week cycle of oral 1-andro, superdrol, and methoxygonadine. Between doctor visits to do a proper post cycle therapy and lab work to check my liver enzymes (in the 200's by the way) it cost me around $500. Blood pressure was 170/120, which was what I was going for, but looking back on it it simply wasn't worth it. I did gain a solid 20lbs and managed to keep 15 of em. I have been tempted to do this cycle again, just because of how successful it was. I hit a point where I leveled off with my lifting and my desire to become more than I am eventually won me over. DId it feel good? hell yes! what didn't feel good was what came with it.

Injectable steroids wont destroy your liver like oral steroids, but they will cause supression and testicular atrophy to some extent, and post cycle therapy is a pain in the ass. also $'s. Plus, there is no such thing as big enough! steroids fuel an insatiable desire to be big, and it never ends. But, they do not live up to the hype, good or bad. You will not benefit from steroids if you eat like shit and don't know how to lift, and they are not as bad for you as they are made out to be. Injectable steroids are safer than oral steroids, assuming you keep your rigs clean.

If you must use something, please check out a SARM (selective androgen receptor modulator) they are not very androgenic (i.e. no roid rage or hair loss, probably) and barely cause hormonal supression. I took a 6 week cycle of ostarine, gained about 10lbs, and didn't experience many side effects. No post cycle therapy. cost $164

Edited by Orajel, 07 March 2012 - 07:20 AM.

[Googoltarian]

I took a 6 week cycle of ostarine, gained about 10lbs, and didn't experience many side effects. No post cycle therapy. cost $164

How do you know that what you took was indeed ostarine?

Even if steroid cycles aren't as harmful as everyone think they are, people tend to correlate a fact that steroid users are quite reckless in taking whatever increases their muscle mass - and reckless humans generally aren't wise either. Blame heuristics

[Orajel]

I took a 6 week cycle of ostarine, gained about 10lbs, and didn't experience many side effects. No post cycle therapy. cost $164

How do you know that what you took was indeed ostarine?

Even if steroid cycles aren't as harmful as everyone think they are, people tend to correlate a fact that steroid users are quite reckless in taking whatever increases their muscle mass - and reckless humans generally aren't wise either. Blame heuristics

Well, I didn't take it to a lab. What I did do was do some research on ostarine, figure out the physical properties, and get it from a suplier that people trust. It seemed to check out. Hey, if it wasn't ostarine, it was one hell of a placebo effect all the side effects seemed to be consistant with ostarine.

[Ben]

Did you do a hormonal panel after your ostarine? Any hpta suppression? I've read the exp.'s of a few people that suffered it after ost. and was discouraged from doing it myself.

[Orajel]

Didn't get any bloodwork done with ostarine, mainly because getting a doctor to order bloodwork requires paying for a doctor visit and I wasn't concerned with ostarine negatively affecting me, based on the studies I've read. No roid rage, no libido supression, but I did see the gains. I did, however, get full blood work done with the superdrol, 1-andro, methoxygonadine cycle. In order to keep my gains I had to go overboard with supps, plus an aromatase inhibitior and a script for HCG. With all that It wasn't much of a problem, libidio came back strong within a couple weeks.


Edit: the gains with ostarine DO NOT compare to the gains seen with steroids. They are modest in comparison. Also you don't get the pumps.

Edited by Orajel, 09 March 2012 - 05:50 AM.

[Raptor87]

I just watched bigger stronger faster on youtube. It is interesting how the opinion on steroids is based on other things rather than scientific evidence.

Edited by Brainfogged, 22 March 2012 - 01:58 AM.

[1kgcoffee]

Yeah, and it's interesting how one of the brothers died of a heart attack. Not steroid related at all!

[Raptor87]

Yeah, and it's interesting how one of the brothers died of a heart attack. Not steroid related at all!

Depends...

Taking testosterone doesn´t affect the heart as GH does. If he was on GH then that was probably a key component yes.

Then there´s the genetic component aswell. If one is proned to heartproblems then he should avoid certain things. As a unhealthy diet and even some activities. Like powerlifting! Powerlifting strains the heart incredibly, one can actually get severe problems with the heart even if he never touched steroids. Putting tons of steel on ones back tends to strangle the heart which makes it pump in a explosive way. Sometimes I wonder how the powerlifters do that shit. It´s scary to see when they lift crazy amount´s of weight if one knows what their bodies are going through. I think that they must be both crazy and stupid. Sometimes I wonder why their heart´s just don't give up and they don´t drop dead while lifting even when they are clean.

So if he was using GH and was powerlifting, then it was probably due to that. This doesn´t mean that steroids are as bad as gubment want´s us to believe they are.

Also a normal side- effect from gaining weight is actually sleep- apnoea, this is very common with people who are overweight, this includes bodybuilders. Thats also a reason why one can get problems with the heart.

Do you have any reference to the deaths of one of the brothers and has the cause been determined? Im not surprised if it was mad dog. If id be on HGH then I would avoid any kind of conditioning or powerlifting which is recommended when using. Bodybuilding doesn´t strain the heart as much though. Not only that but he wrestled, it´s one of the most endurance taking sports.

[Orajel]

Was it the brother who admitted to using cocaine and drinking large amounts of lead and cough medicine? Testosterone can put strain on the cardiovascular system, primarily by raising blood pressure. I don't think the point of the documentary was to say steroids are harmless, becasue they aren't. The point was that steroids can be used safely, just like tylonol can be used safely. Tylonol can also kill you.

Edit: Good point, brainfogged, powerlifting is not nessicarily good for your heart or body. Squatting 800lbs on a regular basis is not something the human body was designed for. The brother was a little heavy set and clearly suffered from emotional problems, which can cause heart problems.

Edited by Orajel, 23 March 2012 - 01:27 AM.

[Dataguru]

Arnie.......Never took steroids..... and you see how smart he is !!!!

[mastercowboy]

We all know anabolic steroids are bad but are they bad in small doses?

Why do you want to take them? Again, I'm left wondering why you call yourself 'The Immortalist', but you keep wanting to do things that might harm your health.

I'm just curious. I want to be as strong, good looking, and intelligent as possible. Do you know of anyways to achieve maximum physical/mental performance?

You will have a better chance if you visit a psychologist..no offense!

[LORDDiESEL]

I've used juice for years. I'd never touch orals again, but straight test is gold for my body. Orals are way too hard on the body. A50's make you huge, but they hurt the body too much.

On a side note, has anyone ever used a myostatin inhibitor? If i could find a safe source for that, i would give it a shot.

[pleb]

there are a number of peptide sellers that are legit and will ship to other countries but i have no idea if peptides are banned in Canada or if they would be confiscated by customs there,,

a couple sell both Follistatin and ACE 031, one here in the UK, is also a reseller of quite a bit of other stuff from china as well which is legal here for your own use and peptides are among them,

I've just started taking 1 iu a day of HGH 5 on 2 off for cost reasons, i have enough ACE and IGF-1 long 3 to run a trail on myself for 5 months to actually see if this stuff works as it was originally investigated to use by kids to treat muscular dystrophy and who couldn't exercise, all in the trails were between the age of 4 and 10 years old, and apart from the odd one or two that had nose bleeds and bleeding from the gums had no problems but it was stopped until they figure out what caused the bleeding although they didn't think it was serious, the trails were in Canada but with the blessing of the US FDA they reported at the time that the trails would begin again early this year,

[VidX]

Bump your dose up to 4ius, if that's a legit pharma grade GH - you'll like the results. Depends of what are you trying to achieve of course. But it DOES work.

Edited by VidX, 23 February 2013 - 01:35 PM.

[pleb]

Hi thanks, The HGH is for rejuvenation, it is Pharma, i'm trying this after seeing the test results from the New England school of medicine, the trail in 1990 when they used it on 15 guys between 60 and 80 for 6 months at 1 iu a day, the cost reasons are to use less hence the 5 on 2 off,

it's those results used by most companies that sell it especially the Chinese companies that sell generics copy those results to quote its benefits I'm sure you have seen it 8% lean body muscle increase 15% fat loss and the other results, cells returned to what they were at 19 or 20 etc,,they all use the same words,

once i have used that for a few weeks i want to take the ACE and IGF-1 to see if it works at all, (including lots of extra protein),
i have a protocol for those two,

Edited by pleb, 23 February 2013 - 03:55 PM.

[nowayout]

There is a study showing that double-dose, alternate day use of rHGH in adolescents is as effective as daily use and causes much less long term suppression of endogenous GH production once they stop it. Unless you plan on being on GH permanently, therefore, alternate day use may actually be a better option.

I think from a transhumanist point of view, steroid and rHGH use is but a small and modest step in self-improvement, much less risky in my opinion compared to using mind-altering or psychoactive drugs like SSRIs and nootropics.

[pleb]

Hi Viveutvivas, Thanks that's useful information, yes i am planning on it being permanent, i had thought the 2 off might also help the Pituitary gland from shutting down although at my age it probably doesn't produce more than 15 to 20 % of the amount it did when i was in my late teens early twenties anyway, but 1 on 1 off is even better from a cost point,

I've never really got into the new tropics side and haven't really read about them so i have not even considered the use of those,

Edited by pleb, 23 February 2013 - 06:39 PM.

[Doktor]

Dose does matter, but they will almost always cause supression. A few months ago I finished a 5 week cycle of oral 1-andro, superdrol, and methoxygonadine. Between doctor visits to do a proper post cycle therapy and lab work to check my liver enzymes (in the 200's by the way) it cost me around $500. Blood pressure was 170/120, which was what I was going for, but looking back on it it simply wasn't worth it. I did gain a solid 20lbs and managed to keep 15 of em. I have been tempted to do this cycle again, just because of how successful it was. I hit a point where I leveled off with my lifting and my desire to become more than I am eventually won me over. DId it feel good? hell yes! what didn't feel good was what came with it.

Injectable steroids wont destroy your liver like oral steroids, but they will cause supression and testicular atrophy to some extent, and post cycle therapy is a pain in the ass. also $'s. Plus, there is no such thing as big enough! steroids fuel an insatiable desire to be big, and it never ends. But, they do not live up to the hype, good or bad. You will not benefit from steroids if you eat like shit and don't know how to lift, and they are not as bad for you as they are made out to be. Injectable steroids are safer than oral steroids, assuming you keep your rigs clean.

If you must use something, please check out a SARM (selective androgen receptor modulator) they are not very androgenic (i.e. no roid rage or hair loss, probably) and barely cause hormonal supression. I took a 6 week cycle of ostarine, gained about 10lbs, and didn't experience many side effects. No post cycle therapy. cost $164

I know how SARMS look on paper, but recommending them over testosterone is bad advice IMHO.

Basically, SARMS do the same thing to your androgen receptors that testosterone does, but without any hormone. As such, they basically have the same side effect profile that test does at an equivalent level of testosterone. On top of this, there are lots of anecdotal reports of vision problems while on SARMS, Ostarine in particular. Finally, they are a research chemical

Everything considered, it would be much cheaper AND safer to dose testosterone at a very low dose instead of Ostarine; you would end up with basically the same gym-related benefits, the same level of suppression (with an equivalent dose), and there is WAY more research backing the effects of testosterone then SARMS. It's pretty much a no-brainer. I'm not saying Ostarine and the like are bad... just not as effective and safe, and therefore not worth it.

I sort of expected this level of "steroids are bad mkay" coming from this forum, but it always makes me sad to see ignorance toward effective substances that have potential. Yes, steriods are bad in the context of life-extension, I will agree with you all there... but depending on how you define "worth it", they have their uses... and the side effects can be handled pretty well these days.

In the end, I disagree that steroid use is that bad... but abuse of course is detrimental.

.... And sorry for grave digging this thread lol