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Steroids?


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#1 The Immortalist

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Posted 06 April 2011 - 02:22 AM


We all know anabolic steroids are bad but are they bad in small doses?
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#2 niner

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Posted 06 April 2011 - 02:29 AM

We all know anabolic steroids are bad but are they bad in small doses?

Why do you want to take them? Again, I'm left wondering why you call yourself 'The Immortalist', but you keep wanting to do things that might harm your health.
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#3 ajnast4r

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Posted 06 April 2011 - 05:27 PM

steroids are for insecure pussies. iron + hard work will do more for your confidence and self-image than any synthetic hormones ever will.

Edited by ajnast4r, 06 April 2011 - 05:28 PM.

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#4 The Immortalist

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Posted 06 April 2011 - 05:29 PM

steroids are for insecure pussies. iron + hard work will do more for your confidence and self-image than any synthetic hormones ever will.


What about natural hormones? Is taking real testosterone better than taking steroids?

#5 Tithonus

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Posted 06 April 2011 - 06:01 PM

steroids are for insecure pussies. iron + hard work will do more for your confidence and self-image than any synthetic hormones ever will.


What about natural hormones? Is taking real testosterone better than taking steroids?


Actually, under some circumstances, synthetic testosterone has shown better response in the body than the natural testosterone - supplementally. That being said, as was asked earlier, why would you want to take them? Usually, steroid use is for two purposes. Synthetic testosterone can be given to people with LOW testosterone, and has shown some help in providing more energy, sex drive, and lower cholesterol. But the much more COMMON use for steroids is muscle mass boosting. As Ajnast4r said so succinctly, steroids are generally used by people who have image problems. Aside from causing testicle shrinkage (your body is lazy. If supplied with an outside source of a hormone, it will stop production of the same hormone. Melatonin, testosterone, etc), synthetic or exogenous natural testosterone damage adrenal glands, kidneys, and the cardiovascular system.

The research about steroid use, as with IGF1, and HGH, seems to indicate that it may SEEM to improve health, but it shortens life span.
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#6 JohnD60

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Posted 07 April 2011 - 09:54 PM

Back in the sixties the medical community 'knew' that Steroids didn't work. I don't take Steroids, but I don't dismiss that they may in some applications for some people be beneficial for either quality of life or longevity.

#7 platypus

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Posted 07 April 2011 - 10:27 PM

Isn't it clear that an aging body cannot work like it used to if hormone levels are less than youthful?
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#8 Tithonus

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Posted 08 April 2011 - 12:19 AM

Isn't it clear that an aging body cannot work like it used to if hormone levels are less than youthful?


Not completely true. For instance, HGH is involved in allowing the human body to grow to it's set limit, but if it were to remain on indefinitely, one would continue to grow as some fish or reptiles do. This is seen in bodybuilders who use HGH, where internal organs as well as muscles grow larger. You can actually see this by looking for the "potbelly" on bodybuilders, where organ growth actually makes them appear to have a gut, even though their body fat may be quite low. Enlarged hearts, kidneys, and etc don't function as they should, causing a number of health issues, and shortening life span.

While I'm not making a BLANKET statement about all hormones, just because a hormone is higher when one is younger doesn't mean that it should be added back when you are older.
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#9 The Immortalist

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Posted 09 April 2011 - 08:41 PM

If only there was a performance enhancer better than steroids but with little to no side effects....

#10 The Immortalist

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Posted 09 April 2011 - 08:50 PM

We all know anabolic steroids are bad but are they bad in small doses?

Why do you want to take them? Again, I'm left wondering why you call yourself 'The Immortalist', but you keep wanting to do things that might harm your health.


I'm just curious. I want to be as strong, good looking, and intelligent as possible. Do you know of anyways to achieve maximum physical/mental performance?
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#11 ajnast4r

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Posted 10 April 2011 - 12:00 AM

Do you know of anyways to achieve maximum physical/mental performance?



http://www.amazon.co...e/dp/0976805421

+

http://www.fitnesssc...pic-weights.jpg
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#12 niner

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Posted 10 April 2011 - 12:33 AM

I'm just curious. I want to be as strong, good looking, and intelligent as possible. Do you know of anyways to achieve maximum physical/mental performance?

That's basically what most of us here are looking for. What ajnast4r said is good. Along with that, a diet that is in the raw paleo direction, along with some of the supplementation that is frequently discussed here. Get a good night's sleep every night. Learn to meditate from a good teacher. Get your psychology and relationships sorted out. Find a good aesthetic surgeon and spend a lot of money on improving your looks. Find someone who can put together a great wardrobe for you. Being rich is quite helpful. Pursue a meaningful life; learn to do things that are valuable and make the world a better place. Be social. Don't injure yourself with drugs or crazy behavior. Get a great education, and keep learning and growing permanently. Have really good parents.
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#13 Pauloio

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Posted 01 June 2011 - 05:16 PM

Isn't it clear that an aging body cannot work like it used to if hormone levels are less than youthful?


Not completely true. For instance, HGH is involved in allowing the human body to grow to it's set limit, but if it were to remain on indefinitely, one would continue to grow as some fish or reptiles do. This is seen in bodybuilders who use HGH, where internal organs as well as muscles grow larger. You can actually see this by looking for the "potbelly" on bodybuilders, where organ growth actually makes them appear to have a gut, even though their body fat may be quite low. Enlarged hearts, kidneys, and etc don't function as they should, causing a number of health issues, and shortening life span.

While I'm not making a BLANKET statement about all hormones, just because a hormone is higher when one is younger doesn't mean that it should be added back when you are older.



If you did a study on the kind of people who are taking HGH,(and other hormones) you probably would find that they would not be "pussies" , and not any more or less insecure than me or you, nor would they have outrageous organ growth, ...."one would continue to grow as some fish or reptiles do."...that statement is so far from reality its funny reading it...HGH just doesn't work like that!

How ever, what would make them stand out would be that they would be well educated

You would have to be, to even think about trying it.

There is so much ignorance, fuelled by empty negative pollution people spread about it, which stops any real facts, POSITIVE FACTS, from surfacing, and scares people away.

I used to be brain washed by the negative pollution myself, because all I had to go on was listening to stuff like I read on here so far.....BUT..I thought out of the box..and actually did the research myself instead of listening to peoples mythologies.



A lot of the biggest celebrities in Hollywood, and Music industry benefit from it. Men and Women, ...and they don't look deformed with pot bellies..nor are they all bodybuilders.....sure, a lot would train in a gym though...again like you and me.

A side from celebrities, there are all manner of people using it,..however some can't afford it, ..and thats the really only evil I know about it..it's cost!
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#14 platypus

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 10:08 AM

One should not mess with steroids before one is starting to show signs of testosterone deficiency (in one's 50's perhaps?), and perhaps not even then. Doing steroids when one's natural production is at it's peak would be borderline idiotic.

#15 Ark

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 10:19 AM

There are more cons then pros messing with your endorine system and one should take great care before taking steroids *(aka mega research) as you'll need a post cycle therapy at least as long as your cycle *2x being the best option. Also taking some supplements and RXs will help with negitive side effects. Good luck and watch your liver emzyme levels / colestral levels , good luck.

Also i do not reccomend steroids espically if the user is under 21 as the negitive health effects are longer lasting in youth.

#16 Ark

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 10:21 AM

We all know anabolic steroids are bad but are they bad in small doses?



Btw if you think your being clever by taking just a small bit of anabolic steroids, i have news for you. Your just going to shut down your natural test production and not gain any real weight. I'd advise against this, if your minds truely set on doing lower dosages, you could always pulse your cycle.

#17 The Immortalist

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 01:33 PM

There are more cons then pros messing with your endorine system and one should take great care before taking steroids *(aka mega research) as you'll need a post cycle therapy at least as long as your cycle *2x being the best option. Also taking some supplements and RXs will help with negitive side effects. Good luck and watch your liver emzyme levels / colestral levels , good luck.

Also i do not reccomend steroids espically if the user is under 21 as the negitive health effects are longer lasting in youth.


Taking roids isn't worth it. I'll wait until something better or as good with less side effects comes out.

I know some retards at my gym and at my school who take steroids and I just want to smack them silly. There's no reason to take steroids if your just an average gym rat. The only time a person should ever consider taking steroids is if they want to be an IFBB pro and they have reached their utmost natural limit. Even then I don't think it's worth it.
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#18 Lufega

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 03:00 PM

There are ways around some of the side effects of steroids. For example, vitamin D to prevent joint problems. SAMe to keep to testicles from shrinking too much. Also, stuff like soy isoflavones or ferulic acid can decrease the androgenic side effects while keeping the anabolic ones. Go to ergot.log. They have a lot of great information on this. I don't think steroids are the great devil people make them out to be. I know a guy who's on them and couple with hard work, he gets great results. Problem is, no one wants to lose muscle poundage once the cycle stops so they have a big potential for abuse and THERE is the real problem.
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#19 hivemind

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 05:18 PM

steroids are for insecure pussies. iron + hard work will do more for your confidence and self-image than any synthetic hormones ever will.


What about natural hormones? Is taking real testosterone better than taking steroids?


Actually, under some circumstances, synthetic testosterone has shown better response in the body than the natural testosterone - supplementally. That being said, as was asked earlier, why would you want to take them? Usually, steroid use is for two purposes. Synthetic testosterone can be given to people with LOW testosterone, and has shown some help in providing more energy, sex drive, and lower cholesterol. But the much more COMMON use for steroids is muscle mass boosting. As Ajnast4r said so succinctly, steroids are generally used by people who have image problems. Aside from causing testicle shrinkage (your body is lazy. If supplied with an outside source of a hormone, it will stop production of the same hormone. Melatonin, testosterone, etc), synthetic or exogenous natural testosterone damage adrenal glands, kidneys, and the cardiovascular system.

The research about steroid use, as with IGF1, and HGH, seems to indicate that it may SEEM to improve health, but it shortens life span.

There is no synthetic and natural testosterone. They are both the same stuff.
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#20 Boolean

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 04:45 PM

If you did a study on the kind of people who are taking HGH,(and other hormones) you probably would find that they would not be "pussies" , and not any more or less insecure than me or you, nor would they have outrageous organ growth, ...."one would continue to grow as some fish or reptiles do."...that statement is so far from reality its funny reading it...HGH just doesn't work like that!

How ever, what would make them stand out would be that they would be well educated

You would have to be, to even think about trying it.

There is so much ignorance, fuelled by empty negative pollution people spread about it, which stops any real facts, POSITIVE FACTS, from surfacing, and scares people away.

I used to be brain washed by the negative pollution myself, because all I had to go on was listening to stuff like I read on here so far.....BUT..I thought out of the box..and actually did the research myself instead of listening to peoples mythologies.



A lot of the biggest celebrities in Hollywood, and Music industry benefit from it. Men and Women, ...and they don't look deformed with pot bellies..nor are they all bodybuilders.....sure, a lot would train in a gym though...again like you and me.

A side from celebrities, there are all manner of people using it,..however some can't afford it, ..and thats the really only evil I know about it..it's cost!


THIS. The negative stereotype given by the media has really been a setback in the healthful use of anabolic hormones. OMG STEROIDS EVIL RAAWWR! haha whatever.

Look, I'm not saying to do them or not do them, but... take a look at testosterone. Tell me one thing that's physically harmful about it. We're going to put aside the "stupid factor" of people that use it with no information and use it to get freakishly enormous, and the people who don't know how to keep the needle clean and get infections. The obvious fact is that it does have side effects, but these are all mitigated by intelligent use. Whats so different about using this, and a girl using it to turn into a man? Or even a girl using birth control? Guess what, birth control (estrogen, estrodiol) is a steroid hormone.

After a LOT of research into the endocrine system, I really can't find anything physically harmful about this. As a matter of fact, it has a LOT of very beneficial factors to it in the anti-aging front. SMART and MONITORED use of HGH has been used in modern medicine for years as anti-aging and regenerative therapy in older adults. TRT is more recently being used for the same thing. Check it out... don't just listen to all the negative people who have nothing but agonizing ignorance to add.
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#21 JChief

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Posted 16 September 2011 - 11:25 AM

If only there was a performance enhancer better than steroids but with little to no side effects....


There is and it's called eurycoma longifolia (tongkat ali, pasak bumi) extract. I could show you lab results that prove it frees up testosterone and without question has greatly enhanced my endurance and strength. The best sources are from Indonesia. Many companies that are only concerned about their bottom line offer smaller (sometimes stretched) ineffective doses under the name 'Longjack' etc. You can find a good source here or here .. many places really you just have to know what you are looking for. Barlowe's also offers nettle extract which works. In addition to its anabolic effect it has other benefits that anyone who knows how to use Google can find. It's the real deal and I'm glad I found it.

On a lesser level, sulbutiamine has the effect of boosting mental performance and giving me an "in the zone" feeling at a single 600mg dose taken with food 45 min or so before a workout.

My two cents :~
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#22 nowayout

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Posted 16 September 2011 - 06:07 PM

...synthetic or exogenous natural testosterone damage adrenal glands, kidneys, and the cardiovascular system.


As far as I know, this is not true for reasonable doses.

#23 Lufega

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Posted 17 September 2011 - 04:08 AM

Seems to me like steroids are the ultimate healing drug out there. But this is effective if you only used it in the short term. They activate wnt/beta-catenin and this can help regenerated and heal the lungs, heart, bone, skin, etc. I've read studies where they are used to heal pressure ulcers, fractures, endothelium problems and all kinds of things. If used correctly and again, short-term, they might even confer some longevity benefits.
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#24 unregistered_user

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Posted 17 September 2011 - 04:40 AM


The best sources are from Indonesia. Many companies that are only concerned about their bottom line offer smaller (sometimes stretched) ineffective doses under the name 'Longjack' etc. You can find a good source here or here .. many places really you just have to know what you are looking for.


So are the sources you linked to for Longjack or the real deal? It looks like the one from Forest Health is a good bet and seems fairly economical. What is that, almost a 3-month supply?

Are you taking TA and if so, do you work out? Can you personally speak to the advantages you've seen from it?

#25 Boolean

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Posted 19 September 2011 - 01:59 PM


As far as I know, this is not true for reasonable doses.


It's usually true for most oral steroids as they are methylated to survive first pass through the liver. There's also some injectables that MIGHT cause this such as Winstrol (Stanozolol) that is the same compound in either oral or injectable form, and POSSIBLY trenbolone, which was never approved for human use but only used on livestock to increase weight, and even then it was intended that the cattle that were given this weren't going to be living much longer(nom nom cheeseburgers).

But... for most anabolic hormones this isn't the case especially when used in safe dosages. I've heard that some IFBB champs shoot like 1 gram of testosterone DAILY. That's insane.

#26 JChief

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Posted 19 September 2011 - 07:04 PM


So are the sources you linked to for Longjack or the real deal? It looks like the one from Forest Health is a good bet and seems fairly economical. What is that, almost a 3-month supply?

Are you taking TA and if so, do you work out? Can you personally speak to the advantages you've seen from it?


Absolutely. Take it and you'll boost your testosterone. I do work out. Lots of studies out there. It just works. The sources I referenced were my suggestions but both are indeed good sources. It's not cheap. I take 2 capsules twice per day. 5 days on 2 days off for 2 months and then 2 weeks break and repeat the process. Barlow's you'll find has the best prices if you compare the two. 120 caps for $60 essentially compared to $89 for 100 caps of the same 1:200 extract. Dragon Herbs sells Sumatran TA but only 1:50 extract which is quite steep and what forced me to find better options. Google Serge Kreutz as he's got some interesting facts as to his personal experience with it. No side effects really other than the positive ones.
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#27 Luminosity

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Posted 19 September 2011 - 09:18 PM

Immortalist,

I think you are flirting with some dangerous choices. I hope you don't take any of these things. The real question is, why do you feel so insecure?
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#28 VidX

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Posted 19 September 2011 - 10:01 PM

So far there's very small amount of data on the "harm" of steroids (if any), so I can tell just my subjective observations. I know some people who've been taking hormones for 20-25years straight, with little breaks. Well.. they are not old still, 45-50, tho' - in a physical shape, that would put many 20yos to shame (not sure how it's "inside", just stating the obvious). I've talked with them about steroids, and got an impression that start using them was one of the best decisions in their life lol..
I consider bodybuilders to be one of the first "transhumansim" examples in the society. When person enhances oneself and surpass it's biological limitations.
Could it be dangerous? Of course. Tho' if you guys expect to get a completely harmless therapies to renegerate yourself, all tested and approved, in your life time - I wouldn't be so sure about that. Like peptides for a "public use" first became available in the "black market" (like synthetic testosterone too) - I have a feeling it will be similar with at least some portion of our dream/goal. Be ready to experiment. ;)

Edited by VidX, 19 September 2011 - 10:02 PM.


#29 VidX

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Posted 19 September 2011 - 10:05 PM

Immortalist,

I think you are flirting with some dangerous choices. I hope you don't take any of these things. The real question is, why do you feel so insecure?


Do you think it's "dangerous" because you don't know much, thus a priori consider it to be that, or do you have some significant data, showing it's dangerous?


There's an "unwritten rule" in bodybuilding world, btw: these who are constantly on hormones - very very rarely get sick. Any kind of sicnkess.. from cold to something more serious. Maybe it's an effect of an overall bodybuilding obsessive lifestyle and good nutrition, or maybe it's something more... Who knows.

p.s. - would you call a person who wants to enhance his brains or vascular system (with nano fibers or some stuff) "insecure" too? Damn, we are the transcedent humans, nothing "insecure" to want to be a better of a human, a more effective/capable version of it.

Edited by VidX, 19 September 2011 - 10:24 PM.

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#30 VidX

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Posted 19 September 2011 - 10:11 PM

Seems to me like steroids are the ultimate healing drug out there. But this is effective if you only used it in the short term. They activate wnt/beta-catenin and this can help regenerated and heal the lungs, heart, bone, skin, etc. I've read studies where they are used to heal pressure ulcers, fractures, endothelium problems and all kinds of things. If used correctly and again, short-term, they might even confer some longevity benefits.


That may be very true. And government may even not want people to use steroids, as they become more efficient in many ways. I'm not talking abuse. A nice dose of test + some gh after a certain age may make a person quite different in his physical and even mental abilities. But let's just wait and see. I wouldn't be surprised if some studies in the future will conclude that these who used hormones while using their common sense at the same time - are actually healthier in their later ages, then these who didn't. It may go both ways of course, but while it's still not clear - let's not jump on conclusions.

In a meanwhile: R.Robinson at 54: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScGLVK1f5t8 ;)

Edited by VidX, 19 September 2011 - 10:11 PM.





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