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Resveratrol Rebound ? when off RES ?

resveratrol

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#31 RAFA

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Posted 12 September 2011 - 03:51 PM

Posted Image

Acai Juice Powder 300.00 mg ** Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image ** Daily Value (DV) not established Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image

Other Ingredients: Sugar, Corn Syrup, Palm Oil, Soy Lecithin, Corn Starch, Glycerin, Citric Acid, Malic Acid, Natural Flavor, natural colors from fruits and vegetables.

Can any of the above ingredients cause Joint pain ??

#32 maxwatt

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Posted 12 September 2011 - 03:53 PM


I am happy to hear about your wonderful health, it is a tresure. and you also see the benefits of RES on arthritis or relieving arthritic symptoms ? so this is one of the universal benefits. and one other question you may not like is that "How do you know your wonderful health is just your genes" ? How do you know RES done anything for you at all if anything ?


Careful observation as I experimented with dosage. The anti-arthritic effect was unexpected, but quite real, and also observed in others who use resveratrol. This includes a surgeon who has regained the use of his thumb, and is able to perform surgery again. He gave me the theoretical explanation, inhibition of nf-Kappa Beta.

A number of other substances inhibit nf-Kappa beta, including by some studies, acai. Why your pain gets worse with acai is therefore not to be expected. However, like resveratrol, it may be necessary to take adequate D3 (D25 hydroxy blood level above 35 to 45.) Dosage of resveratrol, and probably acai, may be a key factor. Too much, one gets joint or tendon pain without adequat3e D3. If you go back over old threads here, many users found resveratrol in higher doses seemed to trigger joint pain and/or tendonitis, which was usually alleviated by D3 supplementation. The relative dose of acai you take perhaps triggers a similar reaction?
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#33 RAFA

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Posted 12 September 2011 - 04:04 PM


Careful observation as I experimented with dosage. The anti-arthritic effect was unexpected, but quite real, and also observed in others who use resveratrol. This includes a surgeon who has regained the use of his thumb, and is able to perform surgery again. He gave me the theoretical explanation, inhibition of nf-Kappa Beta.

A number of other substances inhibit nf-Kappa beta, including by some studies, acai. Why your pain gets worse with acai is therefore not to be expected. However, like resveratrol, it may be necessary to take adequate D3 (D25 hydroxy blood level above 35 to 45.) Dosage of resveratrol, and probably acai, may be a key factor. Too much, one gets joint or tendon pain without adequat3e D3. If you go back over old threads here, many users found resveratrol in higher doses seemed to trigger joint pain and/or tendonitis, which was usually alleviated by D3 supplementation. The relative dose of acai you take perhaps triggers a similar reaction?


I take 250mg RES per day. Is this too much ?? and i will look into vitamin D supplement. I will have to check my blood level first. Too much Vit D is dangerous because it is fat soluable Vitamin and not readliy eliminated and accumulates fast. Also i think the last bag of Acai i took was in hot weather and was all melted. I wonder if this made that Acai toxic ?

#34 niner

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Posted 12 September 2011 - 04:26 PM

I take 250mg RES per day. Is this too much ?? and i will look into vitamin D supplement. I will have to check my blood level first. Too much Vit D is dangerous because it is fat soluable Vitamin and not readliy eliminated and accumulates fast. Also i think the last bag of Acai i took was in hot weather and was all melted. I wonder if this made that Acai toxic ?

Wait a minute, let me get this straight: You take resveratrol (of as-of-yet unspecified purity) and overhyped stuff like Acai, but you don't want to take Vitamin D until you get your levels checked? Error. My unsolicited advice is that you junk the acai and start taking 2000 IU vitamin D3 in an oil-based (softgel) formulation. Dry forms are poorly absorbed. After a couple months, get your 25-OH-D3 level checked. I shoot for around 45ng/ml. There is one reason to get a level before you start supplementing D3; that's to find out how deficient you are. I guess that could be worth doing.

Vitamin D is not dangerous unless you take absurdly large amounts.
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#35 bixbyte

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Posted 12 September 2011 - 07:19 PM

I went off RES 250mg per day i was taking for about 8 month. I had trouble sleeping and it was messing up my sleep patterns. Yes, i know, i took it in the Morning once a day. Not at night. Still it was causing sleeping problems. so i went off of it. and about 2-3 weeks later, i am developing these Joint pains and wrist pain. I had inflammatory condition in my wrist and took RES and it seem to help a great deal. but now i am off it, my wrist pain is coming back. also after working out with weights, my joints are hurting me more than it ever has. While on RES, the joint pain after workout wasn't that bad. and now i am off it, my joint pain after good amount of workout, is worse than ever. Has anyone experienced this ? rebound effect of RES ?




By any chance did you buy your Resveratrol at GNC along with the Acai?
BTW, Any other supplements, Prescription or nonprescription substances in your regiment?
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#36 david ellis

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Posted 12 September 2011 - 07:43 PM

I am sure your insurance would cover it and you would only pay Co-pay of $20. and that is cheaper than paying $60 at mailorder.


I would love it if my George W Bush Part D insurance had a $20 co-pay. I hope you continue to receive low-cost medical care. It is becoming rapidly rarer.

#37 RAFA

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Posted 12 September 2011 - 09:01 PM




By any chance did you buy your Resveratrol at GNC along with the Acai?
BTW, Any other supplements, Prescription or nonprescription substances in your regiment?


Yes at GNC. but i take no other prescription meds

#38 niner

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Posted 12 September 2011 - 09:20 PM


Yes at GNC. but i take no other prescription meds


Way back in the fourth post of this thread, I asked you if this was a 50% resveratrol product. If so, that might be the cause of your sleep problems and a high purity resveratrol would probably fix it. Since it's coming from GNC, my guess is that it is in fact 50%. What does the label say? Got a link to the product?

#39 pycnogenol

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Posted 12 September 2011 - 10:27 PM


I am sure your insurance would cover it and you would only pay Co-pay of $20. and that is cheaper than paying $60 at mailorder.



Don't be so sure about that. Besides, you have to factor in the cost of also paying health insurance premiums and they ain't so cheap.

I'd rather just pay out-of-pocket thank you very much.

Edited by pycnogenol, 12 September 2011 - 10:28 PM.


#40 RAFA

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Posted 12 September 2011 - 10:32 PM


Way back in the fourth post of this thread, I asked you if this was a 50% resveratrol product. If so, that might be the cause of your sleep problems and a high purity resveratrol would probably fix it. Since it's coming from GNC, my guess is that it is in fact 50%. What does the label say? Got a link to the product?



GNC doesn't make any RES that is 100% pure. so i am sure it is 50%. but why would that cause sleep problems and not 100% one ? and many of these pure RES sellers and distributors have gone out of business and also ones with mailorder have terrible customer service. That is why i bought mine at GNC

#41 niner

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 12:12 AM

GNC doesn't make any RES that is 100% pure. so i am sure it is 50%. but why would that cause sleep problems and not 100% one ? and many of these pure RES sellers and distributors have gone out of business and also ones with mailorder have terrible customer service. That is why i bought mine at GNC

The 50% resveratrol might interfere with sleep because "the other 50%", the half that isn't resveratrol, has a variety of biological activities. It's a CNS stimulant, for one thing. Some people report euphoria and/or appetite suppression. It also contains a compound called emodin that can cause GI problems.

Try RevGenetics.com. They have 100% resveratrol, and I've never had a problem with their service. The owner is a member here, and sponsors this forum.
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#42 maxwatt

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 12:24 AM

Most of us believe GNC is overpriced for what you get, and some of their house supplements are not shall we say the best quality given the current state of biochemical knowledge. Vitaminshoppe is a notch better IMO and does carry 98% pure resveratrol, though not their house brand. The add link at the top of this page leads to a very bioavailable quality product. There are also some vendors who sell pure 98 or 99% resveratrol powder, if you want the most economical form. Ask for a COA and independent lab tests.

50% resveratrol extracted from knotweed contains other polyphenols and anthocyanins, some of which are neuron-excitents. At 250mg, you may be getting half that amount of resveratrol. Read the label carefully. I'd say 250 mg is a minimum dose for many of the desirable effects our members have noted. Some take up to two grams or more. Most of us gradually increased our dosage up to one or two grams, but after some months most of us decreased the amount to around 300 to 400 mg, which I believe is a good maintenance dose. One does get the effects more quickly with high doses, and can then drop back in my experience. Perhaps a low dose will work as well, if more slowly. But do not suddenly go and take large amounts of this or any other such substance. If you want to take it, start with 100 to 200 mg, and increase the dose every few days as long as there are no adverse effects noted.

Edited by maxwatt, 13 September 2011 - 12:26 AM.


#43 bixbyte

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 12:50 AM


Yes at GNC. but i take no other prescription meds


Hello, which GNC Resveratrol supplement did you buy?

http://www.gnc.com/f...302&cp=11516182

I see one GNC has product that contains 250 mg of 50% Resveratrol from 500 milligrams of Japanese Knotweed.
100 milligrams of Quercetin.
Plus 200 milligrams of grape seeds and stems.

#44 RAFA

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 03:11 AM

One other thing i noticed with RES is that my front teeth feels like it is loosening up. Is this a side effect ?

#45 niner

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 03:28 AM

One other thing i noticed with RES is that my front teeth feels like it is loosening up. Is this a side effect ?

Not that I know of. You probably ought to see a dentist about that.
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#46 mikeinnaples

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 12:24 PM

One other thing i noticed with RES is that my front teeth feels like it is loosening up. Is this a side effect ?


Not noted by anyone posting effects in these forums for years. You probably need to stop attributing every single symptom you have (or is in your head) to resveratrol and completely stop ALL supplementation for a few weeks . You can then see where you are at and determine if it is supplements or health issues causing your problems... THEN add things back one at a time every couple of weeks to see if you get the symptoms again.
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#47 bixbyte

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 01:27 AM

One other thing i noticed with RES is that my front teeth feels like it is loosening up. Is this a side effect ?


Hi, When is the last time you made a dentist appointment?
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#48 RAFA

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 01:53 AM


Not noted by anyone posting effects in these forums for years. You probably need to stop attributing every single symptom you have (or is in your head) to resveratrol and completely stop ALL supplementation for a few weeks . You can then see where you are at and determine if it is supplements or health issues causing your problems... THEN add things back one at a time every couple of weeks to see if you get the symptoms again.



not sou sure about that. when i take RES, i notice my teeth loosening up. then when i stop it, my teeth feel like it is normal.
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#49 niner

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 02:10 AM

not sou sure about that. when i take RES, i notice my teeth loosening up. then when i stop it, my teeth feel like it is normal.

Remember, you aren't just taking resveratrol. You're taking resveratrol, emodin, and twenty other things. Get some real (98+ %) resveratrol, then see what happens.
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#50 mikeinnaples

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 01:15 PM

not sou sure about that. when i take RES, i notice my teeth loosening up. then when i stop it, my teeth feel like it is normal.


Mmmmmkay.
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#51 maxwatt

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 03:10 PM

I think resveratrol kills plaque bacteria, at least when taken as a powder and held in the mouth. It might have some such effect when taken in capsules. If plaque is holding your teeth together, and you kill the plaque, that would explain the problem :|o :dry:
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#52 mikeinnaples

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 05:22 PM

If plaque is holding your teeth together, and you kill the plaque, that would explain the problem :|o :dry:


Priceless.
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#53 RAFA

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 02:51 PM

Do you guys know how i can put a patent on RES for certain indication ?. I plan on doing my own controlled study for certain indication and plan on publishing a paper on it. but i like to put a patent on this indication so that nobody else can duplicate my study and claim it was their idea.
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#54 hav

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Posted 16 September 2011 - 09:12 PM

Do you guys know how i can put a patent on RES for certain indication ?. I plan on doing my own controlled study for certain indication and plan on publishing a paper on it. but i like to put a patent on this indication so that nobody else can duplicate my study and claim it was their idea.


http://www.uspto.gov/patents/index.jsp

#55 RAFA

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Posted 13 October 2011 - 06:18 PM


I am happy to hear about your wonderful health, it is a tresure. and you also see the benefits of RES on arthritis or relieving arthritic symptoms ? so this is one of the universal benefits. and one other question you may not like is that "How do you know your wonderful health is just your genes" ? How do you know RES done anything for you at all if anything ?


Careful observation as I experimented with dosage. The anti-arthritic effect was unexpected, but quite real, and also observed in others who use resveratrol. This includes a surgeon who has regained the use of his thumb, and is able to perform surgery again. He gave me the theoretical explanation, inhibition of nf-Kappa Beta.

A number of other substances inhibit nf-Kappa beta, including by some studies, acai. Why your pain gets worse with acai is therefore not to be expected. However, like resveratrol, it may be necessary to take adequate D3 (D25 hydroxy blood level above 35 to 45.) Dosage of resveratrol, and probably acai, may be a key factor. Too much, one gets joint or tendon pain without adequat3e D3. If you go back over old threads here, many users found resveratrol in higher doses seemed to trigger joint pain and/or tendonitis, which was usually alleviated by D3 supplementation. The relative dose of acai you take perhaps triggers a similar reaction?


Max, some guy in the forum said resveratrol is like quinolones. which has major warning from FDA for causing serious tendon damage. so this means resveratrol/emodin can cause serious tendon damage and forever cripple you. this is really scary, indeed.

#56 bixbyte

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Posted 14 October 2011 - 01:28 AM

Do you guys know how i can put a patent on RES for certain indication ?. I plan on doing my own controlled study for certain indication and plan on publishing a paper on it. but i like to put a patent on this indication so that nobody else can duplicate my study and claim it was their idea.


Let me see,
My younger brother died almost 5 years ago at age 50 from his heart.
My wife his Brother an infectious disease MD dies of an MI at age 48 in 2001 in his sleep and that was 10 years ago.
My lipid profile and sugar numbers sucked all my life.
Heart disease runs in my wifes family.
BOTH my wife and I have been taking extremely large supplements of Resveratrol for a couple years.
I shared my blood tests results on this board with a 1,000 people.

AND YOU HAVE AN IDEA ???
Human tests will costs you more than $100 million.
And want to patent the use for Res before you mention the "indication"?

Give me hint? :)

#57 RAFA

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Posted 14 October 2011 - 03:36 AM

Do you guys know how i can put a patent on RES for certain indication ?. I plan on doing my own controlled study for certain indication and plan on publishing a paper on it. but i like to put a patent on this indication so that nobody else can duplicate my study and claim it was their idea.


Let me see,
My younger brother died almost 5 years ago at age 50 from his heart.
My wife his Brother an infectious disease MD dies of an MI at age 48 in 2001 in his sleep and that was 10 years ago.
My lipid profile and sugar numbers sucked all my life.
Heart disease runs in my wifes family.
BOTH my wife and I have been taking extremely large supplements of Resveratrol for a couple years.
I shared my blood tests results on this board with a 1,000 people.

AND YOU HAVE AN IDEA ???
Human tests will costs you more than $100 million.
And want to patent the use for Res before you mention the "indication"?

Give me hint? :)


It doens't have to be double blind placebo controlled trial that drug companies do. It can be informal open end trial. sure the study won't be as strong but it will prove a point.

#58 maxwatt

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Posted 14 October 2011 - 04:47 AM

and how is resveratrol like quinolines?????? I think this is the study yu might be referring to.

Food Chem Toxicol. 2003 Oct;41(10):1315-23.
Effects of dietary antioxidants and 2-amino-3-methylimidazo[4,5-f]- quinoline (IQ) on preneoplastic lesions and on oxidative damage, hormonal status, and detoxification capacity in the rat.
Breinholt VM, Mølck AM, Svendsen GW, Daneshvar B, Vinggaard AM, Poulsen M, Dragsted LO.
Source
Institute of Food Safety and Nutrition, Danish Veterinary and Food Administration, 2860 Søborg, Denmark. vib@fdir.dk
Abstract
The potential beneficial or adverse affect of prolonged dietary administration of moderate to high doses (1-100 mg/kg diet) of the antioxidants, lycopene, quercetin and resveratrol or a mixture of lycopene and quercetin was investigated in male F344 rats. Selected markers for toxicity and defense mechanisms were assayed in blood, liver and colon and the impact of the antioxidant administrations on putative preneoplastic changes in liver and colon was assessed. The dietary carcinogen, 2-amino-3-methylimidazo[4,5-f]quinoline (IQ) (200 mg/kg diet) served as a pro-oxidant, genotoxicity and general toxicity control. IQ increased the levels of protein and DNA oxidation products in plasma, the area of glutathione S-transferase-placental form positive (GST-P) foci in the liver as well as the number of colonic aberrant crypt foci (ACF). All antioxidants and the antioxidant combination significantly increased the level of lymphocytic DNA damage, to an extent comparable with the effect induced by IQ. In contrast to the control group where no GST-P foci were detected, GST-P foci were detected in animals exposed to quercetin, lycopene and the combination of the two. However, the increase in the volume of GST-P foci did not reach statistical significance. The present results indicate that moderate to high doses of common dietary antioxidants can damage lymphocyte DNA and induce low levels of preneoplastic liver lesions in experimental animals. Long-term exposure to moderate to high doses of antioxidants may thus via pro-oxidative mechanisms and non-oxidative mechanisms modulate carcinogenesis.
PMID: 12909264

→ source (external link)


100 mg/kg. I weigh over 70 kilo, that would be seven grams. Maybe less, going by body mass equivalents. The paper is behind a pay-wall, otherwise I'd look at the details of the mixture the rodents were fed. But the long term resveratrol studies on mice showed no neoplastic lesions on liver or kidneys at these doses, and even higher doses. Maye Bixbyte will volunteer for a liver biopsy?

Edited by maxwatt, 14 October 2011 - 04:53 AM.

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#59 RAFA

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Posted 14 October 2011 - 03:01 PM

and how is resveratrol like quinolines?????? I think this is the study yu might be referring to.

Food Chem Toxicol. 2003 Oct;41(10):1315-23.
Effects of dietary antioxidants and 2-amino-3-methylimidazo[4,5-f]- quinoline (IQ) on preneoplastic lesions and on oxidative damage, hormonal status, and detoxification capacity in the rat.
Breinholt VM, Mølck AM, Svendsen GW, Daneshvar B, Vinggaard AM, Poulsen M, Dragsted LO.
Source
Institute of Food Safety and Nutrition, Danish Veterinary and Food Administration, 2860 Søborg, Denmark. vib@fdir.dk
Abstract
The potential beneficial or adverse affect of prolonged dietary administration of moderate to high doses (1-100 mg/kg diet) of the antioxidants, lycopene, quercetin and resveratrol or a mixture of lycopene and quercetin was investigated in male F344 rats. Selected markers for toxicity and defense mechanisms were assayed in blood, liver and colon and the impact of the antioxidant administrations on putative preneoplastic changes in liver and colon was assessed. The dietary carcinogen, 2-amino-3-methylimidazo[4,5-f]quinoline (IQ) (200 mg/kg diet) served as a pro-oxidant, genotoxicity and general toxicity control. IQ increased the levels of protein and DNA oxidation products in plasma, the area of glutathione S-transferase-placental form positive (GST-P) foci in the liver as well as the number of colonic aberrant crypt foci (ACF). All antioxidants and the antioxidant combination significantly increased the level of lymphocytic DNA damage, to an extent comparable with the effect induced by IQ. In contrast to the control group where no GST-P foci were detected, GST-P foci were detected in animals exposed to quercetin, lycopene and the combination of the two. However, the increase in the volume of GST-P foci did not reach statistical significance. The present results indicate that moderate to high doses of common dietary antioxidants can damage lymphocyte DNA and induce low levels of preneoplastic liver lesions in experimental animals. Long-term exposure to moderate to high doses of antioxidants may thus via pro-oxidative mechanisms and non-oxidative mechanisms modulate carcinogenesis.
PMID: 12909264

→ source (external link)


100 mg/kg. I weigh over 70 kilo, that would be seven grams. Maybe less, going by body mass equivalents. The paper is behind a pay-wall, otherwise I'd look at the details of the mixture the rodents were fed. But the long term resveratrol studies on mice showed no neoplastic lesions on liver or kidneys at these doses, and even higher doses. Maye Bixbyte will volunteer for a liver biopsy?



Max, he is saying that resveratrol with emodin causes tendon damage, or joint tendon destruction. much like the quinolones do like antibiotics ciprofloxacin. There was a warning from FDA about year ago that, ciprofloxacin or quinolone class of antibiotics can cause tendon damage or destruction and cause you to become a cripple. This is a side effect from few case studies from patients that was taking quinolone antibiotics like ciproflxacin. He is saying resveratrol/ emodin has similar structure so similar side effect can be seen. which is very dangerous if true.

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#60 maxwatt

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Posted 15 October 2011 - 02:05 AM

emodin also perforates ones intestines, if used chronically as in certain laxatives. But quality 98 to 99% resveratrol should have negligible to undetectable amounts of emodin. I've run tests where the level is below the limit of the HPLC analysis to detect. Everything for the last two years has been this good, or maybe a few parts per million at most. Not like four years ago, when some batches had appreciable amounts. Resveratrol and emodin are two very separate substances, you seem to be implying they are one and the same. They are not.

emodin Posted Image




resveratrol Posted Image

Edited by maxwatt, 15 October 2011 - 02:07 AM.






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