48 replies to this topic

[Iceebear19727]

Hello all,

After discovering that magnesium can be taken to help slow/reverse tolerance to amphetamines(Adderall), I plan on buying some for myself as I have recently been prescribed some and know how fast tolerance can build. I have read through the "Best Form of Supplemental Magnesium" thread http://www.longecity...ntal-magnesium/ but wasn't able to come to a solid conclusion.

What is everyone's opinion for the most effective form of magnesium for its NMDA antagonistic properties? And what dosage, if you don't mind..

I am torn between Mg Malate and Mg Glycinate (Albion) but am definitely open to suggestions. I would assume that different forms might be more effective depending on the purpose they are being taken for..

Thanks for any advice!

[niner]

Threonate? There's a thread on it around here somewhere. It's hard to find though. Between malate and glycinate I doubt there's enough difference to worry.

[Iceebear19727]

Threonate? There's a thread on it around here somewhere. It's hard to find though. Between malate and glycinate I doubt there's enough difference to worry.

Oh really? Can you tell me why?

[niner]

Threonate? There's a thread on it around here somewhere. It's hard to find though. Between malate and glycinate I doubt there's enough difference to worry.

Oh really? Can you tell me why?

Why threonate? It's supposed to get into the brain better. It's probably getting in via active transport. Or is the question directed at malate glycinate? I'm just thinking about bioavailability there.

[Iceebear19727]

Sorry, yea why threonate.... Okay cool, yeah that was what I was referring to, how well it crosses the BBB.. I've yet to come across any literature or forum posts throughout the internet about threonate... Do you take it personally?

[Iceebear19727]

And how is Malate's and Glycinate's ability to cross the BBB?

[APBT]

Here are a few links to posts on Magnesium Threonate:

http://www.longecity...__fromsearch__1

http://www.longecity...__fromsearch__1

http://www.longecity...__fromsearch__1

Edited by APBT, 25 September 2011 - 09:28 PM.

[GhostBuster]

Threonate? There's a thread on it around here somewhere. It's hard to find though. Between malate and glycinate I doubt there's enough difference to worry.

Oh really? Can you tell me why?

Why threonate? It's supposed to get into the brain better. It's probably getting in via active transport. Or is the question directed at malate glycinate? I'm just thinking about bioavailability there.

Would it help to take magnesium with threonic acid?


one possible product http://www.iherb.com...Vcaps/9381?at=0

[niner]

Would it help to take magnesium with threonic acid?
one possible product http://www.iherb.com...Vcaps/9381?at=0

If you could get pure threonic acid and react it with magnesium hydroxide, in principle that should make MgT. The product you linked has a lot of other stuff in it, and they don't say how much threonic acid it contains, so my guess would be that that one wouldn't do it.

[Iceebear19727]

Has MgT become available anywhere in dosage form yet, like capsules or tablets? instead of bulk powder?

[Iceebear19727]

Is it true that MgGlycinate is known to cause drowsiness and is recommended to take at night? And that malate is okay to be taken during the day? I'm trying hard to decide between the two forms..

[boylan]

Can be found here - http://www.swansonvi.../ItemDetail?n=0

[k10]

Magnesium Taurate HANDS DOWN if you're aiming for NMDA antagonist effects. The taurine and magnesium both work synergistically as mild nmda antagonists.

[OneScrewLoose]

Honestly, I doubt that Magnesium will have sufficient NMDA antagonist effect to reduce tolerance to Adderall. If you wanna do that, just get some over the counter Robitussin (DXM).

[Iceebear19727]

Magnesium Taurate HANDS DOWN if you're aiming for NMDA antagonist effects. The taurine and magnesium both work synergistically as mild nmda antagonists.

Oh yeah? I read that taurine is unable to cross the BBB. Would the two together make that possible?

Honestly, I doubt that Magnesium will have sufficient NMDA antagonist effect to reduce tolerance to Adderall. If you wanna do that, just get some over the counter Robitussin (DXM).

Yeah, I definitely plan on doing both actually. DXM just didn't seem like something I wanted to take every single day for years to come based on what I've read about it.. Am I wrong?

Edited by Iceebear19727, 27 September 2011 - 11:42 PM.

[OneScrewLoose]

I honestly don't know if that would be harmful or not. I've read an extreme case of someone taking over 400mg of DXM (2 bottles of Robitussin) daily for years, and he was alive, so I think taking 15-30mg of DXM daily would not cause any harm but I wouldn't do that without some research. Do you plan to take Adderall every day for years? Taking it with DXM might overall be more healthy as it would negate any excitotoxicity associated with amphetamine use, but this is just me hypothesizing.

[niner]

Honestly, I doubt that Magnesium will have sufficient NMDA antagonist effect to reduce tolerance to Adderall. If you wanna do that, just get some over the counter Robitussin (DXM).

If you're going to do this, don't use a product that contains other drugs in addition to DXM. I think Robitussin Cough Gels are 20mg DXM without other drugs.

Can be found here - http://www.swansonvi.../ItemDetail?n=0

Well I'll be damned. Mag Threonate! $29.99 for 90 caps, each containing 670mg Mg L-Threonate, which equates to 48mg elemental magnesium. Thanks, boylan.

Is it true that MgGlycinate is known to cause drowsiness and is recommended to take at night? And that malate is okay to be taken during the day? I'm trying hard to decide between the two forms..

I've taken glycinate in the morning and never noticed a problem. Magnesium might affect others differently...

[Iceebear19727]

Can be found here - http://www.swansonvi.../ItemDetail?n=0

Well I'll be damned. Mag Threonate! $29.99 for 90 caps, each containing 670mg Mg L-Threonate, which equates to 48mg elemental magnesium. Thanks, boylan.

only 48mg per cap? that seems awfully low for that price! even though I understand that MgT is fairly new on the market...thanks so much for the link though! I'll definitely keep it in mind..

Does anyone know what mg of elemental Magnesium is recommended for NMDA ant. use?

[k10]

Magnesium Taurate HANDS DOWN if you're aiming for NMDA antagonist effects. The taurine and magnesium both work synergistically as mild nmda antagonists.

Oh yeah? I read that taurine is unable to cross the BBB. Would the two together make that possible?

Your body has no problem with transporting taurine from the blood through the blood brain barrier. I don't know where you read this.

[Iceebear19727]

Magnesium Taurate HANDS DOWN if you're aiming for NMDA antagonist effects. The taurine and magnesium both work synergistically as mild nmda antagonists.

Oh yeah? I read that taurine is unable to cross the BBB. Would the two together make that possible?

Your body has no problem with transporting taurine from the blood through the blood brain barrier. I don't know where you read this.

http://www.addforums...ead.php?t=36078

"2) Acamprosate (n-acetyl-homo-taurine) analogue of the amino acid taurine. Alternatively, it may be termed as a carrier molecule for taurine, that allows taurine to readily cross the blood brain barrier, unlike taurine itself. Taurine is a NMDA receptor antagonist. Acamprosate is an investigational drug in the US, undergoing stage 2 (?) trials for the treatment of alcoholics. It is available in most European countries as a treatment for alcoholism, with great efficiacy. Cheaper than memantine, however efficiacy should be the same."

I read now on Wikipedia where it does cross the BBB, thanks for correcting me.
Do you know what dosage of MgTaurine is recommended? I'll be doing some more research but just wanted your opinion.

[Iceebear19727]

I've read that DXM affects other receptors also, which is why I am leery of taking it daily...Is this true?

I won't be taking the Adderall every single day. Holidays will be incorporated, but I would like to think I'll be taking Adderall "long-term". I previously took it almost every day but after having a run-in with the courts, I have taken a 2-year drug holiday, which ends in approx. 2 weeks. I SURELY hope my tolerance has diminished over the years and I don't want it building back up.

So DXM vs. Mg....

[OneScrewLoose]

Forgot to mention:

Your NMDA receptors are already saturated in Magneseum ions, because this is critical to how they function. The NMDA ion channel is by default, blocked by a magnesium ion, until a positive charge comes along, causing the ion to be expelled. If you were deficient in the necessary magnesium required for proper function, things would be going haywire. Adding more magnesum isn't going to cause any more channels to be blocked or not blocked.

Edited by OneScrewLoose, 29 September 2011 - 09:58 AM.

[Iceebear19727]

Forgot to mention:

Your NMDA receptors are already saturated in Magneseum ions, because this is critical to how they function. The NMDA ion channel is by default, blocked by a magnesium ion, until a positive charge comes along, causing the ion to be expelled. If you were deficient in the necessary magnesium required for proper function, things would be going haywire. Adding more magnesum isn't going to cause any more channels to be blocked or not blocked.

So you're saying that taking Mg is going to do nothing towards slowing Adderall tolerance unless I'm deficient??

[OneScrewLoose]

Basically.

[Iceebear19727]

dumb.

[k10]

While what OneScrewLoose says is essentially true, taking something like magnesium taurate likely would still have a mild effect on tolerance and would act as a mild nmda antagonist as you have the taurine and magnesium working synergisticaly on the NMDA receptors. Also, you don't need to be deficient in magnesium in order for it to have some effect on your NMDA receptor. Loading yourself with some magnesium WILL have an effect whether you are deficient or not. How noticeable this effect would be is the question - I doubt it would do much in and of itself in regards to tolerance.

But I wouldn't look at this as a should I take (a) or (b) sort of thing - but rather look to combine the magnesium with one of the more potent NMDA antagonists such as memantine, DXM, or acamprosate

[Iceebear19727]

Are there health risks associated with taking DXM daily over a couple of years or so?

[Iceebear19727]

Question: Say one recommends to take 375mg Mg to "cure" amp tolerance... would that be elemental Mg or just 375mg of any of the forms? I've seen all over different forums where someone says take this amount but never specifies what form. Is it usually just supposed to be understood that it means elemental? or what..

I think I'm going to start with Mg Taurate but now I have to figure out what dosage I want..
Douglas Labs has 120 400mg tabs that look good.. but dosage is a problem..

[OneScrewLoose]

Honestly, your simply not going to get much tolerance prevention from magnesium. If you're worried about DXM, which is understandable, I would look into taking Memantine. That stuff won't wear off as long as your taking it, and it can enhance cognition. There are a lot of threads on it around here and it's easy to get online. Check it out.

[Iceebear19727]

Yet illegal though, am I correct? =\ I'm just now about to get off a 2 year probation for Adderall possession so I'd rather tow the line for now...