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Coluracetam

Coluracetam

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#151 Bismarck

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 05:14 AM

Yea there are enough but some indiviuals might not be able to participate right away for various reasons. So I wonder it there was a possibility to filter out those who are ready to go. The good thing is that after the first purchase people can make individual orders without having worry.

If we can form such a group I assume it wouldnt take more then a week to figuere out all the details. If there are any doubts for safety of funds and since we are all anonymous to each others we shouldnt trust each other , we would ask a reputeable poster like science guy to escrow the money for us for a small fee. So the escrow collects money for the whole group and sends it to the supplier, he will then ship to each individual after he recieved the product.

#152 Isochroma

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 08:32 PM

Scienceguy is gone. I check for his activity daily and there has been none.

My supplier has PayPal (fengqu) and I expect each person to deposit the funds directly to his account - but if they do they will have to pay PayPal's 3% individual transfer surcharge. It's a bit larger cost than having me or someone else in the group collect all the funds first and send them in one batch to him.

Since it's less liability to me I'd prefer it that way, but I have not yet asked him if he will allow it. There shouldn't be a problem.

Edited by Isochroma-Reborn, 20 January 2013 - 08:33 PM.


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#153 Isochroma

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 09:12 PM

Here's a status update so everyone can see what we have together so far and what info I still need.

A list of group buy members and their commitments:

Bismarck: 2 month supply wanted
izan82: $80 USD
Shorty
troubleis: $100 ($200 max)

I need to know how much Shorty can contribute but I can't use my messenger until tonight so I will contact him then.

Edited by Isochroma-Reborn, 20 January 2013 - 09:13 PM.


#154 Introspecta

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 09:58 PM

I will restate what I said before. Anyone of you going in on a group buy with this psychologically unstable Isochroma who is the only person i've known to have gone crazy from overdosing on piracetam is crazy. The only reason he posted our conversation is because he was mad I didn't give him my Coluracetam for free. When he found out it wasn't free he turned into a cry baby threatening me. Just by reading the conversation and all his posts on this forum you can see how nuts he is.. Now I'm being somewhat immature right now posting this and I will admit that but I'm just speaking the truth. If i were to put up a couple hundred dollars for a group buy this would be the last person I would do it with.

Did you really "tell on me" Isochroma to Scienceguy? am I blacklisted? All you had to do was state a price and I would of even done it for 10-20 bucks but you turned it into this big dramatic thing. Plus life aint as easy these days so making a few extra bucks is not a bad thing especially when you have a product that people want.. Now if I charged 100 bucks which is what it is worth then that would be a little greedy but I didn't.. I told you to give me a price and I would most likely go down on it. I expected you to say roughly 40 bucks and I would go down to 30....So now after all your efforts to do a group buy you'll very unlikely get anyone to trust you and even if you do you have no clue how the product effects you. You'll most likely overdose on it like you did with Piracetam and end up in the Nuthhouse. Wait your the same guy that was Mega dosing MSG. haha. This is too easy. I'm out. If you still want the Coluracetam it will be 50 bucks for a half gram plus shipping... When it turns out you can't get it let me know,lol.. I'd never rip anyone off either. I'd send you half if you didn't trust me,lol,lol..... Sorry i'm just having fun. no hard feelings bro ok?

#155 Adaptogen

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 10:40 PM

I will restate what I said before. Anyone of you going in on a group buy with this psychologically unstable Isochroma who is the only person i've known to have gone crazy from overdosing on piracetam is crazy. The only reason he posted our conversation is because he was mad I didn't give him my Coluracetam for free. When he found out it wasn't free he turned into a cry baby threatening me. Just by reading the conversation and all his posts on this forum you can see how nuts he is.. Now I'm being somewhat immature right now posting this and I will admit that but I'm just speaking the truth. If i were to put up a couple hundred dollars for a group buy this would be the last person I would do it with.

Did you really "tell on me" Isochroma to Scienceguy? am I blacklisted? All you had to do was state a price and I would of even done it for 10-20 bucks but you turned it into this big dramatic thing. Plus life aint as easy these days so making a few extra bucks is not a bad thing especially when you have a product that people want.. Now if I charged 100 bucks which is what it is worth then that would be a little greedy but I didn't.. I told you to give me a price and I would most likely go down on it. I expected you to say roughly 40 bucks and I would go down to 30....So now after all your efforts to do a group buy you'll very unlikely get anyone to trust you and even if you do you have no clue how the product effects you. You'll most likely overdose on it like you did with Piracetam and end up in the Nuthhouse. Wait your the same guy that was Mega dosing MSG. haha. This is too easy. I'm out. If you still want the Coluracetam it will be 50 bucks for a half gram plus shipping... When it turns out you can't get it let me know,lol.. I'd never rip anyone off either. I'd send you half if you didn't trust me,lol,lol..... Sorry i'm just having fun. no hard feelings bro ok?

i'll give you $10 for the half gram

#156 Isochroma

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 11:26 PM

I have just sent fengqu an email asking if individual payments to his PayPal account are OK.

I'm sure it will be fine with him.

Second item is a question for everyone who was sent a Coluracetam sample by ScienceGuy: did he send you a tracking number?

#157 Isochroma

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 11:37 PM

I found ScienceGuy's shipping details:

"I will be mailing to UK residents using Royal Mail Special Delivery (= guaranteed next day delivery); so delivery will occur on Wednesday.

I will be mailing to all non-UK residents by AIRSURE, which is faster than standard UK Airmail; and guideline shipping times are as follows:
  • 2 working days after posting to Western Europe
  • 4 working days after posting to Eastern Europe and postal subsidiaries (Islands and Principalities)
  • 6 working days after posting to the Rest of the World
Thank you all again for your patience"

AirSure is fully trackable - tracking numbers are always provided - and £500 insurance so if you didn't get his sample then you should immediately claim the insurance.

That means every person ScienceGuy sent Coluracetam to should have a tracking number.

Please send me your tracking numbers by PM or post them here.

Regarding ScienceGuy's activity on this forum - he has been inactive for a while [Last Active: January 12, 2013 but his last post was on December 15, 2012] and has not yet replied to any of the PMs I have sent him.

Edited by Isochroma-Reborn, 20 January 2013 - 11:42 PM.


#158 Isochroma

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 01:01 AM

I just received a reply from fengqu [Beijing Kaida Technology Development] regarding the deposit of individual payments from the group to his PayPal account.

He agrees and says it's OK.

Edited by Isochroma-Reborn, 21 January 2013 - 01:03 AM.


#159 Citrus Bolt

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 06:48 PM

I should be able to put in $100 on a buy. Very excited.

#160 Isochroma

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 08:19 PM

Excellent, thanks!

I put you on the list for $100.

I will be visiting a friend in my city on Tuesday and will ask him - he already indicated he's willing to put in $100 so I will confirm it then.

Here's a status update so everyone can see what we have together so far and what info I still need.

A list of group buy members and their commitments:

Bismarck: 2 month supply wanted
Citrus Bolt: $100 USD
izan82: $80 USD
Shorty
troubleis: $100 ($200 max)

I PM'd Shorty today asking what his contribution amount / timing will be.

I'd also like to get a $ figure from Bismarck.

Finally, I forgot to mention that since fengqu indicated that he can only send to the 'formal buyer' then I will be splitting up the Coluracetam and re-sending it by trackable EMS/Courier to you guys.

That being said, it means a separate deposit of about $15-$25 (shipping cost varies depending on your location so you'll all have to provide your addresses) for me to re-ship to each person.

Please count on that as a separate amount from the amount you will be sending to him - it will go to my PayPal account after I've found out what the mailing cost will be at the local post office and of course will be different for each person depending on their location and if they choose EMS or Courier.

Edited by Isochroma-Reborn, 21 January 2013 - 08:21 PM.


#161 Isochroma

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 11:14 PM

Today I received my 1mg digital scale in perfect condition after 14 days in transit from the USA to Canada.

Posted Image


20g x 0.001g 1MG Digital Precision Scale HORIZON Professional Jewelry Gold Scale

$24.99 + $3.50 Shipping = $28.49 USD Total


I pulled the plastic tab off the battery - one of the four needed and included to run it (NEVER use NiMH/NiCD rechargeables for digital scales - their voltage is only 1.2V while a standard AA or AAA cell is 1.5V) popped it back in and voila, it works!

This scale represents the best value for money of any 1mg digiscale I've ever found and it ships from the USA.

For those anticipating the measure of Coluracetam or anything needing 1mg accuracy: this is your beastie.

Edited by Isochroma-Reborn, 21 January 2013 - 11:19 PM.


#162 Bismarck

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 02:17 AM

Hi, Ill be buying up a rest supply from one of the testers for a smallish fee.

So I wont be available for the group buy anymore. Its just much faster and easier that way. its cheaper too.

Anyways good luck to all of you guys. I hope you can verify the legitimacy of this supplier for the benefit of everyone.

#163 Isochroma

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 02:20 AM

Please do report your experience if you haven't already, thanks!

Also, I have found that Coluracetam is patented in Canada but it is neither approved as a drug for sale nor have I found any active approval-targeted processes.

Patents protect only the sale of an item or its importation for resale - not the importation of small amounts for personal use.

I will be confirming this with CIPO tomorrow by phone.

#164 Isochroma

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 09:24 PM

Daily scans of eBay paid off today!

The world's first public sale of Coluracetam has today been added to the Racetam Prices list [Mirrors: Jabry | Royal Web Hosting | racetamprices.info] :)

The price for 200mg is $29.99 USD + $2.99 USD shipping = $32.98 USD total or $164,900 USD/kg.

As of today, February 6, 2013 there are six 200mg units available for purchase from this seller.

eBay Tip: An ebay sale with more than 10 in stock will show on the auction page as "more than 10 available". It is possible to find out the exact amount available:

1. Add the sale to your Watch List (and/or any of your other lists)

2. View that list in your eBay. The actual number of items available for that sale will show in the list.


I suspect the seller made use of the Racetam Prices list to purchase Coluracetam from a bulk seller, though I have not asked him yet.

Edited by Isochroma-Reborn, 06 February 2013 - 09:29 PM.


#165 Isochroma

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 09:36 PM

I have now purchased one 200mg unit from the eBay seller [velizy2] leaving only five more 200mg units for purchase.

Edited by Isochroma-Reborn, 06 February 2013 - 09:37 PM.


#166 Crispy Cat

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 10:08 PM

wonder if scienceguy shipped any of his original 2g batches to Montrouge, France..??
seems to me that its rather difficult to find anywhere that would synth just 1g (5x200mg)
:|?

as for myself i still have a very rough time with this chemical after the initial 2 weeks of 10 mg tid its got to the point that if i take more than 5mg in the space of 3 or 4 days even with a months break i get dizzy and random mussel aches .. of course 5mg is not really enough to get any of the good effects from and any higher puts me in bed for the day :sad:
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#167 Isochroma

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 11:19 PM

velizy2 has sold 3x200mg and has 5 left, totalling 8x200mg or 1.6g. I'm not sure if ScienceGuy sent out 1g or 2g samples.

If ScienceGuy sent out 2g samples then velizy2 used only 400mg for himself and is selling the remaining 1.6g.

As for difficulty (assuming he is selling new Coluracetam not ScienceGuy's samples) - it was easy for him because all the world's reasonably-priced manufacturers were already in the Racetam Prices list.

And there is only one Coluracetam manufacturer who sells affordable 1g and 10g amounts - fengqu.

The mystery will soon be solved because I have sent velizy2 a message on eBay asking where he acquired the material and what his plans are for future sales.

Edited by Isochroma-Reborn, 06 February 2013 - 11:28 PM.


#168 Isochroma

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 11:39 PM

Just received velizy2's reply:

"hello
thank you for interest
More quantity is impossible (ebay restriction per month)
regards
"


and my reply to his reply:

"Thanks for the info. Is your Coluracetam from ScienceGuy's 2g samples (Longecity Forum)? Are you a member and if so what is your username there?"



#169 Isochroma

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 11:54 PM

Oh my god, velizy2 is not a forum member or a receiver of ScienceGuy's samples!

His next reply:

"I think no. I have to ask the manager but you ask 2g sample when it sell 200mg??? probly not possible sorry!
do you want contact with manager? I can give it but wait for end of week, for order you will have it shipped friday morning.
regards.
"


and my reply to his reply:

"You misunderstood me.

ScienceGuy on the Longecity forum sent out free 2g Coluracetam samples to about 20 forum members two months ago.

Some of those who received his samples did not like Coluracetam and sold it to other people on the forum, so I thought maybe you were one of those people.

Now I know you are not one of them, thanks for the confirmation!

Any new info you can give me (later this week when your manager is back) would be great, thanks!
"


His language indicates Chinese origin. It looks like he's an employee of a Chinese Coluracetam manufacturer or bulk reseller.

Edited by Isochroma-Reborn, 06 February 2013 - 11:56 PM.


#170 Isochroma

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 02:55 AM

"Manager". velizy2 works for a company.

A company located in China - he stopped replying at the usual hour when my quotes stop arriving by email from Chinese chemcos - the Chinese end-of-workday.

This is important because if he was just a seller who had received two grams from ScienceGuy then he would be a dead-end after he sells out and there wouldn't be much to celebrate.

The fact that the seller is an employee of a company means that - if his Coluracetam sells decently fast - they will have more for sale in the future.

This is a real start - not a false start.

When my 200mg Coluracetam arrives - I chose regular mail - I will take photos and provide all details along with experience reports in the Coluracetam - User Feedback thread.

#171 Guacamolium

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 04:08 AM

Those who've gotten the 200mg packs from ebay:

How are your experiences with them?

#172 globetrotter

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 05:24 AM

People are all ga-ga for this racetam even though it's hard to get, expensive and seems to have very little hard data backing it's touted benefits. Seems like it would be trivial to have some synthesized in one of the Chinese chem labs. Of course you'd never know what you were really getting until you forked over a sample of your shiny new powder to have analyzed...not to mention the extra cost. Maybe someone here on the forums has access to the right analysis gear? If we could get the product independently verified it wouldn't take many of us to pony up enough dough to make it worthwhile to someone...

So what's the deal? Is it really that good?

Edited by globetrotter, 21 February 2013 - 05:25 AM.


#173 renfr

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 11:40 PM

"Manager". velizy2 works for a company.

A company located in China - he stopped replying at the usual hour when my quotes stop arriving by email from Chinese chemcos - the Chinese end-of-workday.

This is important because if he was just a seller who had received two grams from ScienceGuy then he would be a dead-end after he sells out and there wouldn't be much to celebrate.

The fact that the seller is an employee of a company means that - if his Coluracetam sells decently fast - they will have more for sale in the future.

This is a real start - not a false start.

When my 200mg Coluracetam arrives - I chose regular mail - I will take photos and provide all details along with experience reports in the Coluracetam - User Feedback thread.

haha there's no manager isochroma :laugh:
It was just a friend of mine whom I gave responsibility to handle out the orders, excuse him for his worthless english ;)
Velizy2 is my ebay account, for those who want details about the coluracetam I sold yes it's Scienceguy's.
I used about 300-400mg but I didn't wish to use more of it so I sold it.

I will probably plan on selling more coluracetam but this time I will order from a chinese company which have 99,1% purity coluracetam, however I need to evaluate demand because the price for 10g coluracetam will be almost $1000 so here are my plans :
- I plan to sell 10g coluracetam, 50x200mg batches
- Price will be the same as it was on ebay, $29,99 for 200mg + $2,99 shipping, no additional shipping fees if you buy 400mg, 600mg, etc... (price will be proportional ie $59,99 for 400mg, $89,99 for 600mg)
You can also request tracking (to +20 countries including the EU, USA, Canada) + signature on arrival shipping, it will be $7,99.
It will be sent in a letter sized envelope, for $1 more I can send it in a bubbled envelope.
- I will not sell on ebay because their fees totally siphonned off my earnings and besides they put idiotic restrictions therefore I will sell through Longecity, people who are interested will send me a PM with the order and address
- Payment will be done either through Paypal (if you send the order as a commercial order, paypal fees will be at your own charge) either through International Bank transfer or SEPA transfer (if you live in Europe).
- Coluracetam will be sent within 1-2 business days after order completion
- The chinese supplier will be the Beijing Kaida Technology Development Co. Ltd (http://www.bjkaida.c...tshow.asp?id=28), that's $732 for 10g according to Isochroma's racetam list.
- I will ship to the following countries : Canada, USA, South America (except Venezuela), Europe (except Albania, Kosovo, Belarus, Moldavia, FYROM, Georgia), South Africa, Israel, Lebanon, Turkey, Japan, Hong Kong, Macau, PRC, Taiwan, Singapore, South Korea, Australia, New Zealand, Vietnam, Thailand, Malaysia, Phillipines, Indonesia, India.

I plan on doing this in maybe 3-4 months if everything goes alright, but for the moment I would like to know who would be interested in buying so that I do not take risks for nothing.

Edited by renfr, 23 February 2013 - 11:58 PM.

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#174 kenj

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 09:07 AM

I might be interested in high purity coluracetam, since I'm running low on ScienceGuy's portion.

#175 medievil

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 08:47 PM

"Manager". velizy2 works for a company.

A company located in China - he stopped replying at the usual hour when my quotes stop arriving by email from Chinese chemcos - the Chinese end-of-workday.

This is important because if he was just a seller who had received two grams from ScienceGuy then he would be a dead-end after he sells out and there wouldn't be much to celebrate.

The fact that the seller is an employee of a company means that - if his Coluracetam sells decently fast - they will have more for sale in the future.

This is a real start - not a false start.

When my 200mg Coluracetam arrives - I chose regular mail - I will take photos and provide all details along with experience reports in the Coluracetam - User Feedback thread.

haha there's no manager isochroma :laugh:
It was just a friend of mine whom I gave responsibility to handle out the orders, excuse him for his worthless english ;)
Velizy2 is my ebay account, for those who want details about the coluracetam I sold yes it's Scienceguy's.
I used about 300-400mg but I didn't wish to use more of it so I sold it.

I will probably plan on selling more coluracetam but this time I will order from a chinese company which have 99,1% purity coluracetam, however I need to evaluate demand because the price for 10g coluracetam will be almost $1000 so here are my plans :
- I plan to sell 10g coluracetam, 50x200mg batches
- Price will be the same as it was on ebay, $29,99 for 200mg + $2,99 shipping, no additional shipping fees if you buy 400mg, 600mg, etc... (price will be proportional ie $59,99 for 400mg, $89,99 for 600mg)
You can also request tracking (to +20 countries including the EU, USA, Canada) + signature on arrival shipping, it will be $7,99.
It will be sent in a letter sized envelope, for $1 more I can send it in a bubbled envelope.
- I will not sell on ebay because their fees totally siphonned off my earnings and besides they put idiotic restrictions therefore I will sell through Longecity, people who are interested will send me a PM with the order and address
- Payment will be done either through Paypal (if you send the order as a commercial order, paypal fees will be at your own charge) either through International Bank transfer or SEPA transfer (if you live in Europe).
- Coluracetam will be sent within 1-2 business days after order completion
- The chinese supplier will be the Beijing Kaida Technology Development Co. Ltd (http://www.bjkaida.c...tshow.asp?id=28), that's $732 for 10g according to Isochroma's racetam list.
- I will ship to the following countries : Canada, USA, South America (except Venezuela), Europe (except Albania, Kosovo, Belarus, Moldavia, FYROM, Georgia), South Africa, Israel, Lebanon, Turkey, Japan, Hong Kong, Macau, PRC, Taiwan, Singapore, South Korea, Australia, New Zealand, Vietnam, Thailand, Malaysia, Phillipines, Indonesia, India.

I plan on doing this in maybe 3-4 months if everything goes alright, but for the moment I would like to know who would be interested in buying so that I do not take risks for nothing.

Mate interested in teaming up? ill start selling my pharm methylene blue too and we could work on a website togheter if your interested PM me, as i wanted to sell coluracetam too, in case your not interested no problem mate, but tought a partnership and a actual webshop connected to the blog i want to work on is a better idea then paypal?

Just tought my website or blog might attract more customers, i can definatly get you more customers coming from a dutch website wich huge intrest in nootropics, and my articles could attract more customers.

Was planning to get it synthed myself but since we both have something novel to sell (altough mb isnt that special, i got the impossible to get pharmaceutical mb from a pharmacy here, most pharmacy's cant get it anymore).

Also have idea's for other things to synth, also this could get the whole thing started as im really stalling everything haha.

Also if i get stuff synthed it would be chinese with less then perfect purity, the cost for trying new stuff, i cant afford really good synth company's live with it.
Maybe over time yes.

Mate you wont take risk if you market it right, generate intrest, i can help you with that. Either way im sure its gonna sell here on the forum.

#176 medievil

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 09:49 PM

Also a depot in eastern europe from a guy that has acces to all those russian things for a cheap price would be nice, anyone there willing to get stuff there and sell for a cheap price compared to the average price we pay? We could make it imminst project thing too with differened depots over the world that have differened products and a central site.

#177 Isochroma

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 08:37 PM

I never expected this, but a lady who I was in touch with about Phenylpiracetam unexpectedly emailed me a couple days ago saying that her company in China would shortly stock not just supercheap Phenylpiracetam but Coluracetam, Sunifiram and Unifiram too!

As of today day I received an email from Season of the TrustWe Group: Finally a trustable supplier of these obscure Racetams who takes PayPal - hover your mouse over the PP link on the Payment column to see her PayPal address on the actual page - with product in stock [Sunifiram, Phenylpiracetam] and shortly to be in stock [Coluracetam, Unifiram] with prices that are cheap enough for everyone to afford!

The newly-released Racetams are: Phenylpiracetam, Sunifiram, Unifiram and Coluracetam with prices that are revolutionarily affordable - with assurance of superfast delivery by fully-trackable EMS [Express Mail Service] and money-back guarantee by PayPal!

Phenylpiracetam is IN STOCK NOW FOR IMMEDIATE SHIPMENT.
Coluracetam will be in stock halfway through April 2013. [DARK PURPLE COLORED TEXT IN TABLES INDICATES FUTURE STOCK]
Sunifiram is IN STOCK NOW FOR IMMEDIATE SHIPMENT.
Unifiram will be in stock halfway through April 2013. [DARK PURPLE COLORED TEXT IN TABLES INDICATES FUTURE STOCK]

Here are the new additions to the Racetam Prices list, including the first seller for the entirely new category of Raceram: Unifiram.

Below is just an image of the new additions - this forum will not allow proper insertion of the entries without mangling them.
The actual text and links are on the page itself so please go there to find out more - click the table below for details:

Posted Image

Coluracetam is a highly active and very potent nootropic with doses of 10mg (typical) as found by forum members from ScienceGuy's test samples.

Sunifiram and Unifiram are extremely potent nootropics with doses of about 5mg per 150lbs.

The racetam titles at the top of each table are linked to their respective Wikipedia entries. Click to find out more about them.

Edited by Isochroma-Reborn, 22 March 2013 - 08:49 PM.


#178 protoject

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 12:58 AM

Today I received my 1mg digital scale in perfect condition after 14 days in transit from the USA to Canada.

Posted Image


20g x 0.001g 1MG Digital Precision Scale HORIZON Professional Jewelry Gold Scale

$24.99 + $3.50 Shipping = $28.49 USD Total


I pulled the plastic tab off the battery - one of the four needed and included to run it (NEVER use NiMH/NiCD rechargeables for digital scales - their voltage is only 1.2V while a standard AA or AAA cell is 1.5V) popped it back in and voila, it works!

This scale represents the best value for money of any 1mg digiscale I've ever found and it ships from the USA.

For those anticipating the measure of Coluracetam or anything needing 1mg accuracy: this is your beastie.



I think I have this
It's also availible on www.purebulk.com

#179 Isochroma

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 01:17 AM

purebulk.com is a RIPOFF for scales.

They are selling the exact same 1mg scale for $43.50 vs. $28.49 with shipping on eBay.

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#180 Isochroma

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 01:18 AM

Growing a New Antidepressant
April 5, 2007 - The Scientist

Nine years ago, Rusty Gage shattered a neuroscience dogma
when he showed human brains give birth to new neurons.

Today, a company is eager to take those findings to the clinic.

Posted Image Posted Image


One day in mid-January 2006 Todd Carter, the director of biology at BrainCells, Inc., was sitting in front of a computer screen counting blue neurons with green snaking processes. An automated neuron counter had given him some promising results, and he was going back to check the raw data. These neurons started off as a sheet of human neural stem cells, and when Carter applied a compound to them they proliferated and developed into neurons. When he did the experiment again he received the same results: neurogenesis. As he counted the number of neurons, glia, and stem cells, the data matched - this compound was making new neurons at rates as good as antidepressants. It was just what he was looking for.

In searching for a potential new drug that would stimulate neurogenesis similar to the way Prozac and other drugs act on animal brains, BrainCells had screened 539 compounds on countless neural stem cells before coming across this one. The compound, now called BCI540, seemed to promote neurons with reasonable potency and was not toxic to cells. When Carter blocked the compound from acting, neurogenesis vanished. "Based on the antidepressants that have been run, we knew what we were looking for as to what would be a good antidepressant," he says.

Carter decided to probe the drug's mechanism, and on January 27, 2006, the data came back; the drug was unique, not acting on any of the same neurotransmitters that antidepressant drugs do. BrainCells' scientists gathered to review this latest bit of BCI540's data. Carter was thrilled by the compound's unique action. "It was really exciting to know this was real, and unique. [I said,] 'Let's get it in vivo'." He turned to his colleague Andrew Morse, the company's director of pharmacology, and said, "I think I know what you'll be working on for the next month."

For three weeks Morse gave several groups of animals different doses of BCI540 and then measured their responses in two behavioral assays. In the first, called novelty suppressed feeding, Morse placed the animals in a big open chamber and measured how long it took them to eat a pellet of food placed in the middle. Chronic antidepressant use will expedite an animal's approach to the food, and that's what Morse observed. "...we got a very clear result, it looked like a classic antidepressant." In the second test Morse used, novel object recognition, antidepressants tend to reduce an animal's avoidance of a new object and increase exploration. "The novel object [assay] was not as straightforward. But we don't expect all the assays to give us the same signal." But when Morse examined the brains afterward the effect of the drug was as good as an antidepressant. "Before the data were all in the numbers were jumping off the screen. We got a very clear neurogenic effect," Morse says.

BrainCells is hoping that BCI540 is the punchline of a scientific story that began nine years ago when Rusty Gage, at the Salk Institute in La Jolla, Calif., published the first evidence of neurogenesis in human brains. Since then, BrainCells' founders have shown that all the antidepressants now in use, from agomelatine to Prozac, induce neurogenesis in animals. That made them think that other compounds that induce neurogenesis might be good antidepressants, and they hope BCI540 will be the next.

"The failures in central nervous system drugs have tended to be late and for failure of efficacy, in part because there hasn't been a good biological basis for [the action of drugs on] many of these diseases, particularly in psychiatry," says BrainCells CEO Jim Schoeneck. His company's approach is to try to weed out those failures ahead of time through their neurogenesis screens. But whether neurogenesis will be enough to overcome a complex, widely variable, and chronic disease is far from clear.

SEROTONIN SUSPICIONS

Atop Potrero Hill in San Francisco, wall-to-wall windows in Luca Santarelli's apartment boast an impressive view of the city's skyline, hemmed in by the Bay and Golden Gate Bridges whose peaks slowly disappear into the maws of fog. Seated at his dining room table, Santarelli, now head of Roche Palo Alto's CNS research group, recalls leaner times when he was a postdoc in René Hen's laboratory at Columbia University. At the time, Santarelli was subletting an apartment from a woman who lived on Manhattan's East 49th Street. Dutifully he collected her mail, never giving much attention to her Scientific American subscription until one day in 1999. On the cover of the magazine, adjacent to a frothing tsunami, were the words, "New brain cells: growth hints at neural repair."

"I was totally captured by the story," Santarelli says. The article, written by Gerd Kempermann and Fred (Rusty) Gage, described how neurogenesis was discovered, and laid out hypotheses on the regulation and function of the phenomenon. Santarelli had heard of neurogenesis; just one year earlier Gage, at the Salk Institute in La Jolla, Calif., published his seminal paper demonstrating evidence of neurogenesis in the dentate gyrus of human brains,1 and Liz Gould and Bruce McEwen at Rockefeller had published a suite of studies on the effects of stress on neurogenesis in rodents.2 But the field was sparkling with newness, and huge questions remained. "At the time there was speculation about the modulatory factors of neurogenesis. Kempermann already showed exercise and an enriched environment increased it. But what are the molecular components?"

There were hints that serotonin might be involved. A year earlier, in 1998, Gould, now at Princeton, teamed up with her next-door laboratory neighbor, Barry Jacobs - known to some as Mr. Serotonin - to see if the neurotransmitter might have an effect on neurogenesis. They applied 8-OH DPAT, an agonist to the 5-HT1A serotonin receptor, or fenfluramine, which stimulates massive serotonin release. "And lo and behold we had loads of proliferation,"3 Jacobs says. Shortly following, two French investigators showed that depleting serotonin decreases neurogenesis in the hippocampus.4

At the same time Santarelli had begun work on a knockout mouse whose 5-HT1A serotonin receptor was lost. Though he had not published the work yet, Santarelli found that these mice did not respond to a number of antidepressants. He began to put pieces of the puzzle together: "I started wondering whether or not antidepressants could have some of their efficacy by changing the process of neurogenesis," Santarelli says. "And I thought, maybe my mouse is going to tell me something. Not only do I have a mouse where there's a disruption in the serotonin system, but also a disruption in the response to drugs." When Santarelli brought his ideas back to René Hen, "he thought I was crazy."

NEUROGENESIS, MEET ANTIDEPRESSANTS

René Hen sits in his corner office on the seventh floor of the New York State Psychiatric Institute in upper Manhattan. Leaning forward with his elbows on his knees, Hen remembers that he didn't want to invest too much time in Santarelli's neurogenesis project, and says that his hesitation was warranted. "When you think of classic hippocampal functions, you think [of] learning and memory," says Hen. "You wouldn't have thought changes in the hippocampus could change mood."

Nevertheless, Hen agreed. The plan was to ablate neurogenesis and test whether antidepressants still worked. Santarelli and a graduate student, Michael Saxe, went for a cheap trick: They decided to use low doses of radiation to kill dividing cells in the hippocampus.

Searching around Columbia's medical campus, they found a 35-year old Siemens Stabilopan X-ray System that had been retired from use in breast cancer treatments. What they needed next was a lead apron that would fit over the mouse and allow only the hippocampus to be irradiated. Next door to the radiation room was a carpentry shop run by an expert in probe design for radiation research. In exchange for mouse-sized aprons with tiny slits above the hippocampus, Santarelli would buy him Jack Daniel's bourbon or 12-packs of beer. "He didn't drink on the job!" Santarelli jokes.

Meanwhile, the stirrings of a new theory in depression were beginning to emerge. In 2000 Gage and Jacobs, who took a sabbatical from Princeton to join Gage's laboratory for a year, proposed a theory of depression in which decreases in neurogenesis in the dentate gyrus precipitate depression, and pharmaceutical interventions that increase serotonin improve neurogenesis and relieve depression.5 In the meantime, Ron Duman's group at Yale, who assisted Santarelli on his project, found that antidepressant treatment increases neurogenesis.6

The findings confirmed some of Santarelli's suspicions, but Hen reminded him it was merely an association. The ablation experiments would show whether neurogenesis was necessary for antidepressants to be effective. After some time spent getting the radiation protocol optimized, the experiments worked. In August 2003 Santarelli and his collaborators published an article in Science showing that antidepressants do indeed require neurogenesis to change behavior.7 "I was thrilled," says Gage, who was anxious to learn more about the functional role of neurogenesis. "I thought it was great."

A MARKET FOR NEUROGENESIS

"From the moment we found neurogenesis was necessary for antidepressants, one of the natural consequences of that finding was, if we identify compounds that stimulate neurogenesis, we could maybe get new antidepressants," says Hen. There is certainly a market out there for new therapeutics, he adds. Though dozens of antidepressant drugs are on the market, there is still room for more, agrees John Rush, a professor of psychiatry at the University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center. "Our current therapeutic armamentarium certainly leaves a lot to be desired," Rush says. "A lot of the drugs out there are similar." He says about one-third of patients with depression are resistant to antidepressant treatments.8

Moreover, Rush says, about 10%-15% of patients switch drugs because of side effects such as insomnia, anxiety, and sexual dysfunction. Hen says that stimulating neurogenesis might bypass the serotonergic system (thought to be responsible for the side effects) and perhaps improve the tolerability of the drug. Still, Rush says, "most of the drugs are pretty well tolerated ... even a new drug, even if it doesn't affect those neurotransmitters, could affect other brain functions and have [its own] side effects."

As Hen and Santarelli recruited cofounders (including Nobel laureate Eric Kandel) and began discussing their business plans, another group was also hatching plans to capitalize on neurogenesis. Oxford Biosciences, a venture capital group based in Boston, knew there was opportunity in neurogenesis, but they weren't sure what it was. In 2003 they hosted a neurogenesis think tank in Westport, Conn., at which Kandel, Gage, Hen, Santarelli, and a few others attended and presented ideas. Gage had developed protocols for positive neurogenesis controls, optimal neural stem cell cultures, and for labeling and measuring proliferation, differentiation, and survival of new neurons; Santarelli had already received his results from the neurogenesis ablation experiments. Essentially two business ideas shook out of the meeting: Hen and Santarelli wanted to stimulate neurogenesis to treat depression, and Gage had developed in vitro assays that could be used to screen compounds for their effects on the different stages of neurogenesis.

Gage's assays could be used in a general way to measure a drug's neurogenic effects, but Hen's proposal would give those screens focus. "What every good venture capitalist tries to do is to put the best of the best under one tent," says Ellen Baron, a partner at Oxford Bioscience. She and another partner, Jonathan Fleming, offered to develop one "supercompany" that would target Gage's screening tools toward depression. Oxford Biosciences attracted other investors, including Bay City Capital, Technology Partners, and Pappas Ventures, and raised $17.7 million for their initial investment.

Baron and Fleming also thought that BrainCells could bring drugs back to life - drugs that other companies had developed and abandoned. "One way one uses these [screening tools] are as new eyes for existing compounds, because then you can leapfrog the potential of that compound into the clinic," Baron says. By choosing drugs that have already passed through safety trials, BrainCells could potentially shave years off drug development and save millions of dollars as well.

Leasing drugs from companies hasn't been an easy process, however. Before BCI540 surfaced in BrainCells' screens, several other drugs showed promising results. BrainCells approached a handful of companies to begin negotiations on in-licensing their compounds, but when BrainCells presented the neurogenesis data from the potential drug, "they no longer wanted to give us the compound," says Carrolee Barlow, BrainCells' chief scientific officer. The problem, she says, was the size of the companies they were talking to. "A company that is very small and only has two drug assets, if one is on the shelf, it's more valuable on the shelf than if it's gone." In-licensing is like a permanent lease, and Barlow says that once companies discover that their compound might have useful properties, they are not willing to give it away. What those companies would eventually do with those compounds was a mystery. "We stopped looking to repurpose drugs from very small biotech companies," Barlow says.

TO THE CLINIC

BCI540 resulted from that shift in strategy. The owner is $2 billion-a-year Mitsubishi Pharma, which tried the drug for a nonpsychiatric neurologic disorder on more than 300 patients in the United States. Citing competitors who may want to take advantage of their technology, BrainCells won't disclose the identity of the compound or its mechanism of action. Barlow will say only that it does not act upon serotonin, norepinephrine, or dopamine pathways as traditional antidepressants do. She says that patients took the drug for six months with side effects no different from placebo. None of the patients were assessed for changes in mood. Ultimately the drug failed in Phase II trials for lack of efficacy for its original indication.

Once Morse's in vivo results showed that BCI540 was neurogenic and acted like an antidepressant in the novelty-suppressed feeding assay, BrainCells decided to go after the compound. "It was really exciting because we knew it was already safe in humans," says BrainCells' Carter. BrainCells approached Mitsubishi Pharma with a proposal that each company would disclose information about the compound to one another and decide if in-licensing was desirable. Five months of negotiations followed to establish the terms of an in-licensing agreement, which BrainCells' CEO Schoeneck says is a fast turn around. Oxford Biosciences' Baron says the money that was raised originally for the company in the first round was sufficient to cover the costs of in-licensing. Of the $25 million raised for the company so far, they've spent $18 million. Now the company is working on raising another $37 million to bring the drug to humans. Barlow says the board agreed to pursue BCI540 because of the excitement of finding a drug that acts as well as antidepressants in their assays, but doesn't work on serotonin.

BrainCells plans to enter Phase IIA clinical trails once the funds are in hand. A little less than one hundred patients with major depressive disorder will be given a dose of BCI540 either once or three times per day for six weeks. The pills have already been manufactured and if all goes as planned the results should be available sometime in 2008. Barlow says that if BCI540 can meet efficacy goals, the idea is to collaborate with a large pharmaceutical company in the development of a new antidepressant.

BrainCells has a few back-up plans in case BCI540 fails. Schoeneck says BrainCells' screening platform can be used to partner with other companies that want to uncover neurogenic properties of their compounds. The company has already partnered with Organon, a division of Akzo Nobel, to screen Organon's compounds that stalled along the clinical pipeline for neurogenic properties. Barlow says BrainCells' technology might have other applications, such as a treatment for macular degeneration or hearing loss. BrainCells also continues to screen compounds for potential antidepressants. Still, success is no guarantee. As Hen says, "We proved [neurogenesis] is necessary. Now what they are trying to do is prove it's sufficient."

IS NEUROGENESIS ENOUGH?

Fritz Henn, at Brookhaven National Laboratory, is skeptical. At the same time Santarelli and his colleagues were demonstrating the role of neurogenesis in antidepressants, Henn was looking at whether a decrease in neurogenesis could induce depression. Henn hypothesized that every animal with impaired neurogenesis should show a change in behavior. But when he induced a decrease in neurogenesis by exposing animals to the same stress, only a fraction of the animals exhibited depressive behaviors.9 "Given our findings ... I've argued that looking for drugs that specifically increase neurogenesis doesn't seem to be the right approach," says Henn.

Henn's hunch is that the key to relieving depression lies in synaptogenesis. "What really matters in depression is not how much you knock down neurogenesis, but how many cells really integrate into the system." Where and how is unknown. "There is more to depression than just neurogenesis," says Bruce McEwen at Rockefeller. A suite of changes occurs in the brains of people with depression: hippocampal volume reduction, decreased density in glial cells and neuronal size in the prefrontal cortex, and changes in blood flow and glucose metabolism in the hippocampus and amygdala. Stress also causes extensive dendritic remodeling in the hippocampus. "So the question is," McEwen says, "whether these small molecules that work on neurogenesis in the hippocampus also work on these other parts of the brain involved in depression. I don't think neurogenesis is the be-all and end-all of depression, but it's certainly very important."

As BrainCells brings its compound to humans, the experiment could help answer a looming question that Princeton's Jacobs has posed: "Do any of these animal models have anything to do with human clinical depression?" Investigators at BrainCells admit behavioral assays in rat are imperfect models for human mood disorders. Irwin Lucki at the University of Pennsylvania points out that one of BrainCells primary models, novelty-suppressed feeding, is more a proxy for anxiety than depression. "It remains to be demonstrated that models of depressive behavior and neurogenesis are related," Lucki says.

Still, Lucki says screening compounds for their neurogenic properties is appropriate for determining their effects as a chronic antidepressant (he's currently working on a similar project with Wyeth). Santarelli, who is no longer involved in BrainCells because of a potential conflict with Roche, where he now works, says going after neurogenesis is worth a shot, simply to try something new. "There isn't much novelty in depression in the pipeline," Santarelli says. "The only way to break out the mold is to do things like this."

References

1. P.S. Erikkson et al., "Neurogenesis in the adult human hippocampus," Nature, 4:1313-7, 1998. | [PubMed]
2. E. Gould et al., "Neurogenesis in the dentate gyrus of the adult tree shrew is regulated by psychosocial stress and NMDA receptor activation," J Neurosci, 17:2492-8, 1997. | [PubMed]
3. B.L. Jacobs et al., "Serotonin stimulates the production of new hippocampal granule cell neurons via the 5HT1A receptor in the adult rat," Soc Neurosci Abstr, 24:1992, 1998.
4. J.M. Brezun, A. Daszuta, "Depletion in serotonin decreases neurogenesis in the dentate gyrus and the subventricular zone of adult rats," Neuroscience, 89:999-1002, 1999. | [PubMed]
5. B.L. Jacobs et al., "Adult brain neurogenesis and psychiatry: a novel theory of depression," Mol Psychiat, 5:262-9, 2000. | [PubMed]
6. J.E. Malberg et al., "Chronic antidepressant treatment increases neurogenesis in adult rat hippocampus," J Neurosci, 20:9104-10, 2000. | [PubMed]
7. L. Santarelli et al., "Requirement of hippocampal neurogenesis for the behavioral effects of antidepressants," Science, 301:805-9, 2003. | [PubMed]
8. A.J. Rush et al., "Acute and longer-term outcomes in depressed outpatients requiring one or several treatment steps: a STAR*D report," Am J Psychiat, 163:1905-17, 2006. | [PubMed]
9. B. Vollmayr et al., "Reduced cell proliferation in the dentate gyrus is not correlated with the development of learned helplessness," Biol Psychol, 54:1035-40, 2003. | [PubMed]

Edited by Isochroma-Reborn, 24 March 2013 - 01:48 AM.






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