300 replies to this topic

[manic_racetam]

One of my friends is a therapist and also highly recommends NMDR. I haven't really looked at it enough to comment on how it works, but I've see the impressive results.

It's pretty interesting stuff EMDR (Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing). I've got an audio program that uses it (Mark Grant, overcoming strees and anxiety with EMDR) that is one of the most enjoyable and relaxing meditation aids that I've used.

[Ark]

Ketamine?

[ViolettVol]

Went to another shrink today. Complete waste of time. Psychoterapists at least listen tou you for an amount of time. He jsut wanted to shorten the visit as much as possible, told him about taking Zoloft for the past few years and how the only thing it helps with is alleviating the OCD (but not completely helping me get rid of it. Said its one of the only two meds that work on OCD and I should continue taking it. When he asked about possible side effects I said apathy and lack o motivation - he said thats impossible Zoloft is supposed to help with feeling more energetic and motivated:/ I mentioned my extreme anxiety - no solution was forthcoming except the therapy I already signed up for. I said I took Tranxene at night to hep anxiety but it did nothing and felt the same panicky anxiety during the day, so he said to switch taking it during the day :/ No mention of a different med that might work better. He kept interrrupting me when i talked about my symptoms and kept intensely focused on writing that prescription for Zoloft. At the end of the visit he cheerfully wished me good luck and encouraged to come by if I needed another perscription for some meds. Was half tempted to ask him for my zolpidem and see if he would perscribe that without a blink as well since he was so eager to pump me with meds and get rid of me. Why not just give me an iv of opium and be done with it? Totally disgusted with psychiatrists and he;s not the first one like that I've been to.

[MrHappy]

It's a sad truth for many.

At least frontal labotomy has fallen out of favour:
http://en.m.wikipedi...g/wiki/Lobotomy
I watched 'Suckerpunch' the other day and that was a sickening reminder of past medical 'triumphs'. A Nobel Prize was awarded for this. <shudder>

Electroshock therapy is still being used (under its new name, ECT) and potentially deregulated:
http://www.gaia-heal...e-therapy.shtml

...Disgusting periods in medicine - right up there with bloodletting and also mercury being used for syphilis.

I'm sure we'll look back on many of today's treatments, including radiotherapy and chemotherapy in a similar light.
..

When do your noots arrive?

[owtsgmi]

5-HTP is the bomb for all these conditions. IMO works as well as the SSRIs without the side effects, and as quickly. I'd recommend starting at 50mg before bed and you can increase slowly by 50 mgs until you get up to 200. That is enough for most. Take on an empty stomach before bed. Helps you stay asleep much better. And cures those other symptoms. If on an SSRI, my experience is 5-HTP can help you get off them, but start 5-HTP very slowly and then as you increase 5-HTP, lower SSRI very slowly. This should not be construed as medical advice even if it works...

[owtsgmi]

Sorry to double post but could not figure out how to reply with the mobile app. Anyway, I agree wholeheartedly with the above post concerning the positive effects of 5 htp supplementation for depression relief. I too have suffered with depression, SA, and mild OCD for 20 or so years (I am 47 now). I have a 3 prong supplementation approach which I have been "gathering" together for 10 years or so - the point in time when I quit my last SSRI. I moved from SJW to 5htp (100 mg per day). Since that time I increased my 5htp dose gradually until I settled on my present dose 3 years ago of 200mg TR capsules x3 per day. This gives me what I feel is strong baseline protection against my depressive symptoms. The only drawback that I can see is that if I forget a dose or two, I get crazy brain fog. So I don't forget doses!

The second prong in my "attack" is piracetam. I discovered it via these forums about 2 and a half years ago. The immediate effects were a big reduction in SA, very noticeable increase in verbal fluidity (something I did not have and was continually frustrated by) and a crazy ability to focus on research without constantly being distracted or doing OCD things like wringing hands and biting nails, etc. Of course, like so many others have experienced, the effects of the piracetam diminished somewhat. So, I spent the next 2 years researching and experimenting on how to get back the piracetam effectiveness. To make a long story short, I did. I settled on a dose of 800 mg x 2 per day with a bunch of adjuncts perfected over time. I will just throw out the list: L-Glutamine, L-Theanine, L-Lysine, ALCAR, Magnesium Citrate, B complex (liquid), Rhodiola (liquid),
and eleuthero (liquid). I refined this cocktail over time as I combated brain fog at one extreme and adrenal burnout on the
other. I feel there is some type of balancing act going on with the piracetam - if you are too far off on either end of the spectrum, you don't get the positive effects.

The third prong is dopamine supplementation. I tried (in order) caffeine, booze, modafinil (2 years ago), Tyrosine, L-Dopa (mucuna), deprenyl, rasagaline. I have been on rasagaline now for almost a year. I take approximately 1 mg of ras every 3 days. Every other day, I take 1-2 mg memantine, which I find necessary to keep the ras effective.

These supps have given me a sustainable mental attitude/feeling which is indescribable. I am so much more outgoing and productive at my job. My relationships are much improved and I am still learning how to re-connect with the world.

I hate to hijack the thread, but I see similarities in how I am (was) and the OP. Just a last note that I recently started on Uridine with positive results. It seems to smooth out the dopaminergics very nicely. I heard it enhances dopamine so I have been trying to taper off on the rasagaline/memantine regimen a bit.

Anyway, my last bit of advice is to research heavily on these forums and others and stay within your comfort zone. Try to add and remove supps one at a time to try and isolate their benefits. Keep logs of how feel as you vary dosages. You'd be amazed at how helpful that is, especially when your memory sucks like mine. Good luck and don't give up!!

Edited by owtsgmi, 25 January 2012 - 07:21 AM.

[ScienceGuy]

So I've been suffering from depression for about 4 years now, anxiety joined in about a year ago. Am currently taking Zoloft, but with rather little improvement on depression, works on OCD though. Have been in therapy, but the therapist mostly made me think I';m to blame for my problems and ffailed to improve anything. I have trouble with motivation to do the simplest tasks and can't concentrate. I worry constantly.

I've decided to try noootropics and read around this forum, but I'm confused what would be best for me. For now, I"m considering Aniracetam, although my anxiety is not social, more like general. I also really need help concentrating and not feeling like every task is too difficult. Please help.

SEE HERE FOR MY TWO CENTS: TREATING ANXIETY SAFELY & EFFECTIVELY

N.B. Many of my recommendations are applicable to treating both ANXIETY and DEPRESSION

[owtsgmi]

Wow...that's a amazing amount of research and quite interesting! From trial and error over the last 10 years or so, I am happy to discover that I pretty much agree with your findings. I was on a benzo for about 10 years because it helped with situational anxiety, mainly social, but finally realized I was a slave to it (Xanax). Part of my issue (looking back) was that I was in a withdrawal state most of the time because I was very reluctant to increase my dosage over time. I would bump my dose in social situations, but then have a crappy rebound effect the next day. Anyway, I finally kicked it with nicergoline and modafinil over a 3 month taper off period. I've since moved past those drugs too.

So, no more benzos ever again! I have also taken and ultimately stopped taking Cannibis, GABA, valerian, kava kava and taurine over the years. As you can see, my current stack seems consistent with your recommendations. I have ditched the rasagaline for uridine as of late with pretty good results so far (for the dopaminergic in my stack). I like the look of bacopa, which I may try soon. Also, looking at L-methylfolate. I also use Propanolol very sparingly in intense social situations with a++ success.

Anyway, thanks for sharing and I am looking forward to reading your post more in depth.

[JChief]

I recommend Rosavin** which I personally used to eliminate my struggle (lasting years mind you) with anxiety and serious panic attacks. It is a potent brand of Rhodiola Rosea, an adaptogen. I was skeptical of an herbal solution to the problem but sure enough it worked better than I could imagine. 5-HTP is another option I'd take a hard look at if I were trying to address these issues. Of course uridine and omega 3s are highly touted in other threads which I'm sure many have come across. All good options.

** Ameriden® was first in bringing Rosavin™ to the professional market in 1998. Rosavin™ is the only standardized brand used extensively in US case studies.

Edited by JChief, 03 February 2012 - 09:40 AM.

[JChief]

Ketamine?

Since you mention I heard on the radio about a week ago how ketamine has been used successfully to combat hard to treat depression. Its positive effect on the glutamate system have caused scientists to focus on the glutamate pathway as a key area to treat certain kinds of depression. As many know, ketamine also has unwanted side effects (yet wanted for some) ie out of body experiences

Edited by JChief, 03 February 2012 - 09:38 AM.

[bkmk]

i have rhodiola rosea which contain only salidroside , it is to much stimulating. probably rosavin is serotoninergic and salidroside is dopaminergic .

[choqueiro]

Hi.

longevitynow and owtsgmi could you tell anymore about those positive experiences with 5-htp. Maybe I will try it. I suffer from depression, anxiety, memory issues, poor verbal fluency.

I´m a little bit worried about the side effects of this substance. Any heart risk if I take 5-htp?? Any problem with vitamin B?? If I discontinue in any moment the substance I will suffer withdrawal?? Tolerance??

Thanks so much

[owtsgmi]

I have been taking 5-htp for probably 15 years or so now. I began after an unhappy couple years taking prescription prozac and paxil back in the mid-90s. I was not happy with the side-effects so i began investigating alternatives and settled on 5-htp after about a year on st. John's wort. Then, i went through a good 10 years or so fairly satisfied with 5-htp and xanax. The does of 5-htp probably averaged about 400mg per day during this time. 2-3 years ago i decided i needed to move beyond xanax since i could never stop the cravings for it. I refused to bump up my daily dose and tolerance issues really made it ineffective for anxiety at that low dose. Once i got off of the xanax, i adjusted to 600 mg 5- htp in 200mg time release pills taken 3 times per day. I think I have always taken more than I have seen recommended in all the forums and writings I have seen, but I have found I need this much to eleviate the first 80% or so of my depressive symptoms. I have read about the heart risk and I hope I don't have valve defects. I wonder if I could get a test for that? That should put the heart valve issue to rest once and for all LOL. Anyway, at some point I decided that it I needed serotonin in my brain too damn bad and I would take what I think of as a small risk. I can tell you I am in great Heath and I run about 6 miles a week.

To answer your other questions, I do take vitamin B supps (liquid drops) each morning with my other supps. It seems to synergies well. Tolerance does not seem to be an issue, but you probably will get brain fog if you stop taking the 5-htp or lower the dose. As I recall, it only lasts a few days, but the depression quickly comes back to fill its place. I think the bottom line here is you need to supply more serotonin to your brain if you suffer from depression. You can use a lot of things besides 5-htp, but will just have find something with minimal side effects for you. Since 5-htp breaks right down into serotonin, it makes sense to me to use that first and foremost. As always, YMMV!

[hippocampus]

does st. john's wort has some lasting effect or do you return to former state when you stop taking it?

[JChief]

St John's Wort is not an adaptogen. When you stop taking it the benefits cease to be. Been there done that.

[choqueiro]

I´m really afraid about any substance that could damage heart. 5-htp doesn´t offer me any confidence. Also, the "withdrawal" (brain fog if you don´t take it) is a serious problem. It´s a shame, because I think (after reading longevitynow and owtsgmi issues and their positive experiences supplementing with 5-htp) that I will really get better if I increase my serotonin levels.

So the question is, if anyone knows of some substance that could raise serotonin levels but without any risk??

Thanks

[ScienceGuy]

So the question is, if anyone knows of some substance that could raise serotonin levels but without any risk??

ESCITALOPRAM at low dosage of 5mg OD

Pharmaceutical SSRI's in general are a NIGHTMARE and IMO should be avoided; however, there is a singular exception to the rule, namely ESCITALOPRAM and when used at a dosage of 5mg (only).

ESCITALOPRAM is the most selective out of all SSRIs currently available, and medical studies and clinical experience (and my own professional experience) have demonstrated that with a dosage of 5mg ESCITALOPRAM yields ANXIOLYTIC and ANTIDEPRESSANT effects safely and in almost all cases without incidence of any SIDE EFFECTS; mild LETHARGY is really the only side effect that I have seen at this dosage and if often by no means a deal breaker.

Any and all instances of SIDE EFFECTS in relation to usage of ESCITALOPRAM are almost always when the dosage has been much higher than 5mg (e.g. 10 - 20mg). Stick to the 5mg dosage and you almost certainly will reap its rewards with minimal chance of side effects.

It is clinically proven to be effectively in treating DEPRESSION with concommittent ANXIETY.

You should not make the mistake of lumping ESCITALOPRAM into the same 'box' as all the other SSRIs.

Also, given I am specifically talking about ESCITALOPRAM that does NOT include CITALOPRAM

I should add that I am NOT recommending ESCITALOPRAM as the first choice for treating DEPRESSION; this post is in response to the specific request for recommendations of a "substance that could raise serotonin levels but without any risk"; as such, for this particular requirement ESCITALOPRAM at 5mg dosage would be the best choice.

Edited by ScienceGuy, 17 March 2012 - 03:36 PM.

[choqueiro]

Hi ScienceGuy

Recently I read an article in a newspaper talking about the effectiveness of antidepressants. Escitalopram was the most effective. Side effects are few but it can produce side effects (low libido...).

Is there a natural alternative to these products?? Is there a natural and safe way for raise serotonin??

Thanks

[ScienceGuy]

Hi ScienceGuy

Recently I read an article in a newspaper talking about the effectiveness of antidepressants. Escitalopram was the most effective. Side effects are few but it can produce side effects (low libido...).

Is there a natural alternative to these products?? Is there a natural and safe way for raise serotonin??

Thanks

Any and all instances of SIDE EFFECTS in relation to usage of ESCITALOPRAM are almost always when the dosage has been much higher than 5mg (e.g. 10 - 20mg). Stick to the 5mg dosage and you almost certainly will reap its rewards without experiencing ANY side effects.

You will NOT see any SEXUAL related side effects whatsoever at the 5mg dosage

N.B. NATURAL does not always = SAFE

IMO without a doubt the best choice for safely and effectively increasing SEROTONIN levels is ESCITALOPRAM 5mg OD

Edited by ScienceGuy, 05 February 2012 - 07:51 PM.

[manic_racetam]

Hi ScienceGuy

Recently I read an article in a newspaper talking about the effectiveness of antidepressants. Escitalopram was the most effective. Side effects are few but it can produce side effects (low libido...).

Is there a natural alternative to these products?? Is there a natural and safe way for raise serotonin??

Thanks

Any and all instances of SIDE EFFECTS in relation to usage of ESCITALOPRAM are almost always when the dosage has been much higher than 5mg (e.g. 10 - 20mg). Stick to the 5mg dosage and you almost certainly will reap its rewards without experiencing ANY side effects.

You will NOT see any SEXUAL related side effects whatsoever at the 5mg dosage

N.B. NATURAL does not always = SAFE

IMO without a doubt the best choice for safely and effectively increasing SEROTONIN levels is ESCITALOPRAM 5mg OD

You are such A TRIP ScienceGuy! I like it <3 LOL

[rg8032]

[...]
Is there a natural alternative to these products?? Is there a natural and safe way for raise serotonin??
[...]

[...]
N.B. NATURAL does not always = SAFE
[...]

This. Unfortunately, people are easy to manipulate because of this misconception. Strychnine and cyanide are perfectly natural. Ricin is as well. Aconite is a common cause of herbal poisoning in Hong Kong and Creosote causes liver damage and kidney problems. Supplements are drugs.

5-htp can cause heart-valve damage. By increasing plasma renin activity, it can also cause hypertension. In a review of the literature in 2001, which only included two of the published studies from 1966 to 2000, it was determined to have significant effectiveness in treating depression(this probably does not mean what you think it does). I am not sure what the prevalence of these adverse events is. There has not been much research done on 5-htp.

[ScienceGuy]

[...]
Is there a natural alternative to these products?? Is there a natural and safe way for raise serotonin??
[...]

[...]
N.B. NATURAL does not always = SAFE
[...]

This. Unfortunately, people are easy to manipulate because of this misconception. Strychnine and cyanide are perfectly natural. Ricin is as well. Aconite is a common cause of herbal poisoning in Hong Kong and Creosote causes liver damage and kidney problems. Supplements are drugs.

5-htp can cause heart-valve damage. By increasing plasma renin activity, it can also cause hypertension. In a review of the literature in 2001, which only included two of the published studies from 1966 to 2000, it was determined to have significant effectiveness in treating depression(this probably does not mean what you think it does). I am not sure what the prevalence of these adverse events is. There has not been much research done on 5-htp.

All too true... Another example is smoking CIGARETTES (i.e. TOBACCO) which is 'NATURAL', but is akin to filling a 6-chambered gun with 3 bullets, then spinning the barrel and putting the gun to your head and pulling the trigger... in that STATISTICALLY you have a 50% chance it will kill you

[hooter]

Enough data to scare any reasonable mind off SSRIs:

http://ssristories.com

with such gems as:

• Homicidal Ideation Effexor 2007-05-01 Global ++Package Insert Lists Homicidal Ideation as Adverse Reaction
• Homicidal Ideation Zoloft 2008-11-03 Global ++One in Sixty-six Children Aged 17 & Under Had Homicidal Ideation in this Study from the NEJM
• Violence Paxil 2004-11-07 Global ++One Out of Five Paxil Users Surveyed by MIND Reported Violent Behavior
• Relapse of Depression Antidepressants 2011-07-20 Global ++Patients Who Took A/D's More Likely to Relapse Than Those Unmedicated Depressed Patients: Journal
• Chronic Treatment Resistant Depression SSRI & SNRI Antidepressants 2011-07-01 Global ++Possibility SSRIs Cause Chronic Treatment Resistant Depression
• Serotonin Theory SSRI & SNRI Antidepressants 2011-07-22 Global ++Serotonin Imbalance In Depressed People Does Not Exist: Journal Articles
• Homicides SSRIs 2007-11-20 Global ++SSRIs & Homicide: The New York Review of Books
• Blunting of Emotional Love SSRIs 2011-08-05 Global ++SSRIs Can Blunt Emotional Love
• Suicide SSRIs* 2006-10-16 Global ++SSRIs Can Increase the Number of Serotonin Receptors Linked to Suicide
• Ineffective SSRI Antidepressants 2010-01-05 Global ++SSRIs Ineffective For Mild to Moderate Depression: JAMA
• Treatment-Emergent Mania Antidepressants 2009-02-12 Global ++TEM Caused by SSRIs Can Lead to Damaging Behaviors, Arrest & Incarceration
• Shortening of Life Span Antidepressants & Antipsychotics 2009-10-01 Global ++Those on Antidepresants & Antipsychotics Have Shorter Life Span: Diabetes & CV: Endocrine Today
• Maladaptive Behaviors SSRIs 2007-07-07 Global ++Young Mice Given SSRIs Have Maladaptive Behaviors in Adulthood

Someone in the thread asked about SSRIs and aging. I've actually read studies about SSRIs causing skin aging, but sadly I don't have them on hand.

Edited by hooter, 06 February 2012 - 10:05 AM.

[ScienceGuy]

Enough data to scare any reasonable mind off SSRIs:

http://ssristories.com

with such gems as:

• Homicidal Ideation Effexor 2007-05-01 Global ++Package Insert Lists Homicidal Ideation as Adverse Reaction
• Homicidal Ideation Zoloft 2008-11-03 Global ++One in Sixty-six Children Aged 17 & Under Had Homicidal Ideation in this Study from the NEJM
• Violence Paxil 2004-11-07 Global ++One Out of Five Paxil Users Surveyed by MIND Reported Violent Behavior
• Relapse of Depression Antidepressants 2011-07-20 Global ++Patients Who Took A/D's More Likely to Relapse Than Those Unmedicated Depressed Patients: Journal
• Chronic Treatment Resistant Depression SSRI & SNRI Antidepressants 2011-07-01 Global ++Possibility SSRIs Cause Chronic Treatment Resistant Depression
• Serotonin Theory SSRI & SNRI Antidepressants 2011-07-22 Global ++Serotonin Imbalance In Depressed People Does Not Exist: Journal Articles
• Homicides SSRIs 2007-11-20 Global ++SSRIs & Homicide: The New York Review of Books
• Blunting of Emotional Love SSRIs 2011-08-05 Global ++SSRIs Can Blunt Emotional Love
• Suicide SSRIs* 2006-10-16 Global ++SSRIs Can Increase the Number of Serotonin Receptors Linked to Suicide
• Ineffective SSRI Antidepressants 2010-01-05 Global ++SSRIs Ineffective For Mild to Moderate Depression: JAMA
• Treatment-Emergent Mania Antidepressants 2009-02-12 Global ++TEM Caused by SSRIs Can Lead to Damaging Behaviors, Arrest & Incarceration
• Shortening of Life Span Antidepressants & Antipsychotics 2009-10-01 Global ++Those on Antidepresants & Antipsychotics Have Shorter Life Span: Diabetes & CV: Endocrine Today
• Maladaptive Behaviors SSRIs 2007-07-07 Global ++Young Mice Given SSRIs Have Maladaptive Behaviors in Adulthood

Someone in the thread asked about SSRIs and aging. I've actually read studies about SSRIs causing skin aging, but sadly I don't have them on hand.

Yes, wholeheartedly agreed that in general SSRIs are a nightmare; however, one must be careful not to 'throw the baby out with the bathwater', in that ESCITALOPRAM at 5mg dosage is conclusively substantiated to be SAFE, RISK FREE, EFFECTIVE and carries a minimal chance of experiencing SIDE EFFECTS

Using other SSRIs is akin to putting CRUDE OIL into your CAR ENGINE, in that it won't work and will potentially cause damage

Edited by ScienceGuy, 17 March 2012 - 03:39 PM.

[hippocampus]

from wp: Only one independent study has shown that escitalopram is more effective than citalopram, but in October 2011 it was reported that the company that sponsored the study had links to Lundbeck, the makers.
and so ... why exactly is escitalopram so much better than citalopram? it's basically the same molecule ...

[ddd2011]

What about L-Tryptophan, I had good success with 500mg - that should be equivalent of 50mg 5HTP, yet 5HTP made me very drowsy even at 20mg (even the day after the dose).

[ScienceGuy]

from wp: Only one independent study has shown that escitalopram is more effective than citalopram, but in October 2011 it was reported that the company that sponsored the study had links to Lundbeck, the makers.
and so ... why exactly is escitalopram so much better than citalopram? it's basically the same molecule ...

Excellent question!

RE: ESCITALOPRAM versus CITALOPRAM

Firstly, I should point out that there is a rather amusing ongoing 'Handbags At Dawn' battle for dominence between the ESCITALOPRAM camp and the CITALOPRAM camp.

You are absolutely correct that there currently exists only a limited quantity of conclusive substantiated studies demonstrating the superiority of ESCITALOPRAM to CITALOPRAM, in relation to EFFICACY and/or SIDE EFFECTS, however, it does exist; and the superiority is further supported through clinical practice.

However, I agree that it certainly would be a lot more helpful if MORE studies were conducted specifically comparing the two at that various dosages, including 5mg, 10mg, 15mg and 20mg doses; wherein, the difference between the two would be clearly demonstrated to be profound with regards to the 5mg dosage.

Please kindly note that to state that CITALOPRAM is “the same molecule” as ESCITALOPRAM is factually incorrect, in that:

CITALOPRAM = (RS)-1-[3-(dimethylamino)propyl]-1-(4-fluorophenyl)-1,3-dihydroisobenzofuran-5-carbonitrile

ESCITALOPRAM = (S)‑1‑[3‑(dimethylamino)propyl]-1‑(4‑fluorophenyl)-1,3‑dihydroisobenzofuran-5‑carbonitrile

CITALOPRAM comprises a racemic mixture (1:1) of both ENANTIOMERS (S-[+] and R-[-])

ESCITALOPRAM contains only the S-(+)- ENANTIOMER

Research has demonstrated that the ACTIVE COMPONENT is responsible for both CITALOPRAM and ESCITALOPRAM’s pharmacological effect (in relation to ANXIOLYTIC ANTIDEPRESSANT) is the S-(+)- ENANTIOMER, and NOT the R-[-] ENANTIOMER.

Hence ESCITALOPRAM can be considered purer than CITALOPRAM in that it ONLY contains the S-(+)- ENANTIOMER, whereas CITALOPRAM does indeed also provide the S-(+)- ENANTIOMER, but also the R-[-] ENANTIOMER which does have its own physiological effects, but not relating to ANXIOLYTIC ANTIDEPRESSANT effects, but instead relating to increased potential for undesirable SIDE EFFECTS, which is not present with the ESCITALOPRAM because it does not contain the R-[-] ENANTIOMER.

Think of DL-PHENYLALANINE versus L-PHENYLALANINE… Do both yield identical physiological effects? Well, I’ll let you answer that one…

See the following meta-analysis (= bulk review) of the various numerous clinical studies to date reported superiority regarding ESCITALOPRAM versus CITALOPRAM in both EFFICACY and ADVERSE EFFECTS, ranging from “SLIGHT” to “DOUBLE” to the difference:

Croat Med J. 2010 February; 51(1): 61–73

Is Escitalopram Really Relevantly Superior to Citalopram in Treatment of Major Depressive Disorder? A Meta-analysis of Head-to-head Randomized Trials

Vladimir Trkulja

Source

Department of Pharmacology, Zagreb University School of Medicine, Zagreb, Croatia

EXTRACT FROM FULL TEXT:

“the risk of discontinuation of treatment due to [ADVERSE EFFECTS] AE or inefficacy during the initial period of up to 8 weeks was slightly lower with escitalopram [versus citalopram]”; and “Discontinuations due to inefficacy were twice more frequent with citalopram than with escitalopram”.

I hope this helps clarify matters!

Edited by ScienceGuy, 06 February 2012 - 02:26 PM.

[LazarusMan]

For anxiety powdered kava kava root did wonders for me. SSRIs have only ever seemed to make my anxiety worse. There's always benzos of course, Klonopin worked very well for me when suffered from particularly bad anxiety. Many of my friends who suffer from anxiety though seem to have doctors hell bent on pushing SSRIs and SDRIs.

[ScienceGuy]

For anxiety powdered kava kava root did wonders for me... There's always benzos of course, Klonopin worked very well for me when suffered from particularly bad anxiety...

Hey LazarusMan,

I strongly recommend that you read THIS thread on: TREATING ANXIETY SAFELY & EFFECTIVELY

As you will see, that's an absolute NO regards KAVA KAVA and especially any and all BENZODIAZEPINES, with regards to treating ANXIETY which entails prolonged administration for the medium long-term use.

Those are absolutely fine for short-term use only; but NOT for prolonged administration for the medium long-term use.

[choqueiro]

Hi ScienceGuy.

My girlfriend is psychiatrist. Yesterday we talked about escitalopram. She told me that she has been prescribing this substance many years. In her opinion it is one of the more efficients SSRIs and one of the best substances for treat anxiety. Very few side effects are reported in comparison with others SSRIs and it is very safe.

She told me that other SSRIs produce a more letarghic effect so they must be taken in the night (before going bed) but the escitalopram doesn´t produces this effect. In fact it produces a more "euphoric" effect and that´s the reason of taking it at the beginning of the day (maybe it will depend on the person and the quantity because I read in forums people suggesting that they feel very tired after taking it).

Regarding to the dose, she told me that she prescribes to her patients minimum 10 mg. 5 mg. is only an "attack dose" for the first days but 10 mg. is the minimum "therapeutic dose". In fact, the suggested minimum dosage according to the laboratories is 10 mg.

Everyone is different and maybe some people could expect benefits with 5 mg. dose (or maybe it could be a placebo effect). In your personal experience 5 mg. have effect??

Thanks