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Mayan Civilization


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#31 bobdrake12

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Posted 26 December 2002 - 08:05 AM

http://www.arts-hist...ulum/ubica.html

Tulum

LOCATION



The region of Tancah-Tulum is located in the State of Quintana Roo of the Mexican Republic, in the coast of the Yucatan Peninsula, occupying the end this of the Mayan region, having like scene the Caribbean Sea. The Tancah-Tulum region includes the archaeological zones of Tancah, Tulum and Xelha.

The archaeological zone of Tulum is based on a steep eminence, of coralífera limestone, in front of the Caribbean Sea. According to Ruz (1959), "the name of Tulum means wall or fortification" and was given to the site in modern times due to a wall that surrounds it in three by its sides. Its original name would be Zamá, one of the cities that according to chronicles quesignifica "dawn" existed at the time of the Spanish conquest and.

ORIGENES



It is not known much about the first settlers of this zone, nevertheless thanks to archaeological evidences based on the ceramics, is possible to be dated the earliest occupation in year 300 a.C.

One knows that the bones amount of, shell and snail found in the stages corresponding to the Preclásico Period were dedicated to the operation of marine resources by.


http://www.arts-hist...m/sociedad.html

SOCIETY And CULTURE



The main economic activity of the settlers of Tulúm was the fishing, that could group be individual with hooks and harpoons or with networks and boats. Another occupation was the harvesting and capture of moluscos, the hunting and agriculture, the constructive activity that it required of stonecutters, bricklayers, escultores and painters. Other smaller activities were the weave of palms and vegetal fibers, the preparation of the skins, navigation and the commerce to long distance.



The social hierarchy was divided in three great groups:

o A dominant class in charge of the government, the acts witnessed by notary public and monks, the astronomical observations and registries, the commercial transactions, the warlike campaigns

o A class occupied in making necessary activities for the operation of the society: diverse bureaucrats, civil employees smaller and craftsmen like escultores, painters, talladores of wood, weavers, carpenters, talladores of stone, etc. These enjoyed the privileges that its relative proximity allowed them to the high authorities

o A working-class in charge of agriculture, the hunting, the fishing and the logging. This social class was most numerous and the one than of less social privileges it enjoyed.

http://www.arts-hist...m/religion.html

RELIGION



Tulum, like Chichen Itzá, was a city dedicated to the Venus planet, considered like a dual deity with the name of Kukulkán, and its cult was introduced first a Chichen Itzá, coming from the Central Plateau where the religion of this God was originated, only that with the name of Quetzalcóatl.

The Mayans knew the cycle Venusian 584 days. This mathematical and astronomical knowledge was taken by the priests of Xochicalco to create the God Quetzalcóatl. With this deity a religion was elaborated almost monotheist, who soon began to propagate in all directions, unifying temporarily to many mesoamericanos towns; and its image was taken and reproduced like a man bird-serpent.

Kukulkán was associate to the commerce and to the cacao and for that reason he was frequented by the merchants and it maintained the solidarity of the mercantile dominion. Tulum, to be located in the coastal plain and to a height in which the apparent horizon in all directions could be contemplated, could be an astronomical observing point, mainly related to Venus.

#32 bobdrake12

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Posted 26 December 2002 - 08:47 PM

http://www.geocities...as/palenque.htm

Palenque (excerpts)

For sheer beauty and inspiration, Palenque probably has no equal in Mexico. Located in the heart of the Chiapas jungle, it conforms to the classic idea of the Mayan city: impressive and exotic structures, mist-shrouded forest, howling monkeys and oppresive humidity. Anyone with only the slightest interest in the ruins cannot fail to be impressed by this enchanting place; undoubtedly this is the place where many a person has been converted. And there are many individual features of interest here, including the famous Temple of the Inscriptions, the Palace and the amazing roof-combed pyramids.

The trail to Palenque is well worn. The neighbouring town of Palenque is accessible from any of the major cities of Chiapas, and the ruins are a bus ride away. A museum near the site entrance is worth a visit. Take bug spray and precautions against the sun.

History

The origins of one of the mightiest cities of the Classic Mayan age was as a farming hamlet around the beginning of the Early Classic era. Over the next two hundred years it developed its trading links with other cities of the region, but by the turn of the seventh century AD began to grow into one of the most important.

It was in the 600s in particular where we look to Palenque's heyday. The most famous and impressive structures were all built then and its unique style of art came into fruition. We can see similarities in architecture with other important centres like Yaxchilan and Bonampak. For the first quarter of that century Palenque was ruled by Pakal the Great, perhaps its most influential monarch, whose monumental Temple of the Inscriptions was a self-commissioned tomb; the greatest of its kind in Mesoamerica.

But this prosperity was not unaccompanied by political tension; both external and probably so too internal. Catalogued by the stone calendars at Palenque are a series of wars between the chief power centres of the region, most notably that of Calakmul. While Palenque's territorial influence expanded into the 700s to include much of the modern-day states of Chiapas and Tabasco, it was set into something of a cultural decline. The great building projects ended and the recorded history became erratic and incomplete. Around the turn of the ninth century there was something of a short-lived revival; the last recorded king's reign was marked to 799. Soon after, all ceremonial life was halted and for largely unknown reasons a process of abandonment began until by 900, the forest was allowed free-reign. It was not parted again until the early explorations of the colonial explorers almost a thousand years later.

#33 bobdrake12

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Posted 26 December 2002 - 09:17 PM

http://www.sfu.ca/ar...e/palenque.html

PALENQUE



Palenque is a Maya ceremonial center built in the modern state of Chiapas, Mexico. It is part of the frontier region of the Classic Maya renowned for its architecture and rich history of rulers. Palenque's history began on March 11, A.D. 431, according to the heiroglyphic texts. The main construction phase began in the 7th century and lasted until about 810 AD. No one knows why the Maya civilization collapsed, but clearly there was a progressive abandonment, and Palenque was one of the first major centers to be given back to the jungle.

The physical isolation of Palenque emphasizes the magnificence of its buildings, and the delicacy of the stucco ornamentation. In this way Palenque was unique among the Mayan cities.

Two rulers at Palenque, Pacal and Chan-Bahlum, were responsible for the majority of construction. Their ancestry and accomplishments are immortalized in the temples and palaces, as well in the glyphs and stucco tablets adorning the temples. Maya history is recorded in glyph writing, such as seen in the background of these pages, and in the visual artwork of the tablets, such as the image on the right. The Palenque rulers were priest-kings and military rulers that claimed divine descent. Palenque had twelve such rulers, Pacal and Chan-Bahlum being the most remarkable.

Pacal, whose name translates to "Shield", is seen on the tablet to the left receiving the divine crownship from his mother, Lady Zac Kuk, who served for short time as ruler. Pacal claimed the throne through his mother by proclaiming she was the mother deity of the three major gods of Maya religion. He did this to override the tradition that descent to the throne can only be achieved through the male line. In the tablet we see Lady Zac Kuk passing the crown to Pacal who is seated on the Double-headed Jaguar Throne. The glyphs in the tablet have the names of the participants, and the explanation of Pacal's accession to the throne. Toward the end of his reign Pacal constructed the Temple of Inscriptions, a masterpiece of Maya architecture, under which his tomb lies. Pacal reigned for 67 years, and was succeeded by his son, Chan-Bahlum ("Snake Jaguar").

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#34 bobdrake12

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Posted 26 December 2002 - 09:22 PM

http://web.kyoto-ine...a/palenque.html

PALENQUE No.1

Palenque, Chiapas, Mexico; Late Classic; A.D.600-900




Temple of the Inscriptions; A.D.692


There is no stele nor altar in Palenque while the other Mayan ruins have.




Palace and the tower seen from the Southwest.

The Palace was built on the base. The base is 10m high from the ground and 100mx80m square.


Photo: KOHICHI HOTTA

#35 bobdrake12

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Posted 26 December 2002 - 09:25 PM

http://web.kyoto-ine.../palenque1.html

PALENQUE No.2

Palenque, Chiapas, Mexico; Late Classic; A.D.600-900




Temple of the Sun; A.D.642




Temple of the Inscriptions; A.D.692.

The height is 30m. There is a secret crypt in the pyramid. The secret crypt is 10x4m square, 7m height and the floor level is almost same as the ground level.


Photo: KOHICHI HOTTA

#36 bobdrake12

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Posted 26 December 2002 - 09:31 PM

http://www.mexperien...gy/palenque.htm

About Palenque



In the Jungle of Chiapas, nestled on a thickly wooded ridge, are the ancient ruins of Palenque, near a town by the same name. The town itself has no real attraction to speak of, but the nearby ruins of Palenque is one of Mexico's top archaeological sites.

During the Mayan period, it was believed to be one of the most important centres of its day. The name Palenque was given to it by the Spanish; its original name, like so much of Mayan history, is shrouded in mystery.

The architecture here is quite stunning - as is the setting. Surrounded by lush tropical forest and jungle, this site has a serene, mystical atmosphere. From the moment you enter, you feel engulfed by a sense of history and timelessness.

There is an important thing to keep in mind when you're wandering around these ruins: everything you see was built without the benefit of metal tools, or the wheel. This place was created with nothing but human labour and sheer determination.

The surrounding forest is home to a huge variety of wildlife, which includes the colourful toucan, and howling monkeys.

This site contained tombs of ancient leaders and rulers, and still today, excavations are ongoing to uncover more of the mysteries and enigmas surrounding the ancient civilizations of the Maya. Some of the site is still roped off to visitors, as work to uncover the hidden treasures, reclaimed by nature over centuries of disuse, continues.

Palenque lies in the middle area, between two main visiting areas: Oaxaca and Cancun. As such, it is a bit far for a day trip from either place, as you'll spend a lot of time travelling, especially by road. The nearest big town is Villahermosa, to which you can fly into, and travel from there.

#37 bobdrake12

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Posted 26 December 2002 - 09:36 PM

http://www.mexperien...ps/palenque.gif



Note: Paleneque is shown in the center of this map.

#38 bobdrake12

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Posted 26 December 2002 - 09:38 PM

http://www.ancientme...p/palenque.html



Palenque, a late classic Mayan site is situated in the foothills of Chiapas. Politically the city achieved it's height under the rulership of a great dynasty in the 7th and 8th centuries. The funerary pyramid of King Pacal the Great, the Temple of Inscriptions, is one of the many beautifully stuccoed buildings in this capital of one of the most powerful states in all of classic Mayan history.

#39 Lazarus Long

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Posted 26 December 2002 - 10:00 PM

I have been in Uxmal, Chichen, Monte Alban, Palenque, Xochicalco, Teotenago and sites around more populated areas as well as less known sites such as Malinalco and Tepoztlan and one thing became clear from my studies (I was not a tourist) there is no ruin that was not supported by community development that extended the actual area of habitat from ten to a hundred fold.

This is strikingly apparent at Teotihuacan where the extent of development is left as a withered scar upon the landscape visible for miles around and extending almost to the horizon. It is visible from the tops of the pyramids.

#40 bobdrake12

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Posted 26 December 2002 - 10:02 PM

http://www-stud.robi.....e, Mexico.htm

Temple of Inscriptions, Palenque, Mexico



#41 bobdrake12

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Posted 26 December 2002 - 10:21 PM

Lazarus Long,

Thanks for you input!

I visited Mexico one time for one day along the boarder over 30 years ago. I've never been a tourist. I like to blend in with the people and learn a few things.

Now I am on a journey and who knows what we will find out?

What did you find out?

Do you have any photos that you can post?

bob


http://home.planet.n...a/palenque.html

Temple of Inscriptions - Palenque - Mexico



#42 Lazarus Long

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Posted 26 December 2002 - 10:39 PM

I took a small series at Cuilcuilco this last trip. They are not properly uploading to the computer I am using in Florida so I may have to wait to get back to New York in a few weeks to get them put up. The Cuilcuilo site fascinates me because they are the Toltec mountain culture that later builds Teotihuacan. The are a mixed people that should characteristics of both the contemporaneous Olmec and the mountain folks related to the Zapotecs. In todays gouping the characteristics are the difference between Chiapan Mayan tribes and Oaxacan tribes. Though there is a difference also between Zapotec and Miztec Oaxacans.

Where are you going? I might share a few pointers and specifics.

Cuilcuilco is almost unknown and has far too little work being done because it is buried under twenty feet of lava and a lot of urban development.

#43 bobdrake12

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Posted 26 December 2002 - 10:42 PM

http://www.jqjacobs....a/palenque.html

The table below presents views of a Palenque, a Classic Mayan ruin in the state of Chiapas, Mexico - Part 1



The Temple of the Inscriptions is famed as Pacal's Tomb. One of the most elaborate burials in a Mayan pyramid is buried deep inside this monument.




This photo shows the entire building topped mound called the "Palace" by modern archaeologists. This wide-angle view is from atop the Temple of the Inscriptions. The Temple of the Inscriptions photo above was taken from the Palace's tower.




A telescopic view of the Palace tower from the same perspective. The platform mound below these buildings looks solid, but actually there are chambers and corridors running below the structures.

#44 bobdrake12

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Posted 26 December 2002 - 10:45 PM

http://www.jqjacobs....a/palenque.html

The table below presents views of a Palenque, a Classic Mayan ruin in the state of Chiapas, Mexico - Part 2



The Temple of the Sun viewed from the Temple of the Foliated Cross. More ruins lie in the jungle behind this monument. One of the attractions of the Palenque site is the incredible foliage in the surrounding jungle.




Another view from the Temple of the Sun with the Temple of the Cross in the foreground and the Palace in the background.




A telescopic view of the Temple of the Sun from the Palace tower, with draping jungle vines in the background.

#45 bobdrake12

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Posted 26 December 2002 - 10:58 PM

http://wild-net.com..../palenque.phtml



(excerpts)

History

The Mayans ruled from approximately 300BC to 600AD. Much of the history of the site detailing the Mayan's amazing feats is unfortunately unknown. There are two primary reasons for this. First, due to the consuming jungle and humidity many parts of the buildings and records of the culture were destroyed. Second, the religious and political onslaught of other races. This is of course a reference to the Spanish and for example their practice of burning books.




A side view of the Temple of Inscriptions (top left) and the Palace

The Temple of the Inscriptions, so called for the numerous carved inscriptions adorning its interior walls is the burial site of Pacal, one of the most important Mayan rulers. His rule lasted for 69 years. Locating this burial chamber proved very difficult. Three years were spent recovering his sarcophagus (see inside Palenque Page) which was located 2 meters below ground level.




The Palace

The Palace appears to have been quite an advanced building. It contained advanced aqueducts which were designed to flush out the sewerage system approximately every 5 days. It was the location from which the kingdom was ruled, and it should be mentioned that the power of this kingdom was held by women.




The Temple of the Cross


Copyright © 1998-1999 Andrew Wild and Sharon Gillett

#46 bobdrake12

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Posted 26 December 2002 - 11:16 PM

Lazarus Long,

Where am I going?

Like most journeys, I do not have preconceived ideas. I am here to learn.

I will stop at Palenque for awhile because I sense something just might be there beneath the surface. Also may return to Chichen Itza plus perhaps also return to the general Mayan civilization itself.

I think we just might find something (possibilities) if we take a good look.

The question is: What were the Spanish out to blot out of history?

Why did the Spanish burn the Mayan codexes? What did they fear being exposed to the general public?



By the way, sometimes the "official story" might not be the most accurate story specifically if it is told by those that might have been under orders to perform the book burning.


bob

http://emuseum.mnsu....h_conquest.html



The Aztec Empire




The Spanish landed upon the shores of Meso-America in February of the year 1519, in the area of Vera Cruz. By November of that year, the Spanish fleet, commanded by Hernando Cortez, entered into Tenochtitlan and simply arrested the Emperor of the Aztec, Montezuma. Within the time span of two years, Cortez dismantled the Aztec monarchy and gained control of all of Tenochtitlan, and many of it's surrounding territories.

Why was the Aztec Empire taken so quickly by the Europeans led by Cortez? There are many factors to consider in answering such a question. Of the most important is the time in which Cortez entered into Tenochtitlan. Prior to his arrival, the Aztec had seen many astrological phenomena which seemed to portend the collapse of the empire itself. These portents of doom ranged from a comet seen in the day time, to the destruction of two temples. In addition to these omens of doom, Cortez arrived at harvest time, when the Aztec were generally not prepared for war, although there were battles. Also, the Tlaxcalans helped Cortez fight the Aztecs. Also, the Aztecs believed that the god Quetzalcoatl was going to return and destroy the Aztec empire. Quetzalcoatl was seen as a man with light hair, and light colored skin, and it was thought by the Aztec, that Cortez was the returning Quetzalcoatl. Outbreaks of epidemics also helped to weaken the Aztecs. As a result of all of these factors, the Aztec were ripe for an invasion, and Cortez succeeded in decimating the once great Aztec empire.

The Incan Empire



In 1572, Francisco Pizarro entered into Peru, where, with his small band of 175 men armed with an ineffective cannon, took over the entire Incan Empire.

Quickly after Pizarro landed on the shores of Thubes, on May 13, 1532, he began to advance toward the Empire's capitol. As Pizarro's group advanced, they were confronted by roughly fifty-thousand Incan warriors within the town square of the capitol city, Cajamarca, who were bent on destroying Pizarro's band. However, the Inca did not attack, rather, Pizarro asked the Inca's leader, Atahualpa, to meet with him and his body guards unarmed, and both the Inca and Pizarro's men stood at a standstill. Accepting Pizarro's offer was the Inca's worst mistake. Pizarro knew that if he had the Emperor he would have the entire Incan Empire, and all the gold which it held (Pizarro had originally set off from Spain for the city of gold). Shortly after meeting with Pizarro, Atahualpa's gold headband was torn form his head, and with the blast of a cannon, Pizarro's men slaughtered all of the Inca's within the square of Cajamarca. Atahualpa attempted to bargain with Pizarro for his life, offering him a room filled with gold (roughly 17 feet by 22 feet by 9 feet), but shortly after Atahualpa showed Pizarro the room he was murdered.

Bibliography

McKay, Hill, and Buckler. A History of World Societies. Houghton Mifflin Company:Toronto, 1992.

#47 bobdrake12

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Posted 26 December 2002 - 11:38 PM

http://www.shunya.ne...ue/Palenque.htm

Palenque (and Agua Azul)



El Palacio




Templo de las Inscripciones


The ancient Mayan city of Palenque, with its superb jungle setting and exquisite architecture and decoration, is one of the marvels of Mexico ... [First] occupied around 100 BC, [it] flourished from about 600 to 700 AD, and what a glorious century that was! The city rose to prominence under Pakal, a club-footed king who reigned from 615 to 683 AD ... represented by hieroglyphs of sun and shield, he is also referred to as Sun Shield or White Macaw ... During Pakal's reign, many plazas and buildings, including the superlative Templo de las Inscripciones (his Mausoleum), were constructed in Palenque ... [they are] characterized by ... very fine stucco bas-reliefs.

[Pakal's son Chan-Bahlum II] continued Palenque's political and economic expansion and the development of its art and architecture ... [and] presided over the construction of the Grupo de la Cruz temples, placing sizable narrative stone stelae within each. One can see the influence of Palenque's architecture in the Mayan city of Tikal ... The rival Mayan city of Toniná's hostility was perhaps the major factor in Palenque's precipitous decline after Chan-Bahlum II's death in 702. Sources speak of a devastating Toniná attack on Palenque in 730. After the 10th century Palenque was largely abandoned. In an area that receives the heaviest rainfall in Mexico, the ruins lay undiscovered until the 18th century. Frans Blom, an early-to-mid-20th century investigator remarked: 'The first visit to Palenque is immensely impressive. When one has lived there for some time this ruined city becomes an obsession.'

Ancient Palenque's 500 buildings are spread over 15 sq km but only a relatively few, in a fairly compact central area, have been excavated. Everything you see here was built without metal tools, pack animals or the wheel [instead, with blood, toil, sweat and tears]. The site stands at the precise point where the first hills rise out of the Gulf coast plain, and the dense green jungle covering these hills forms a superb backdrop to Palenque's outstanding Maya architecture. The forest is home to toucans, ocelots and monkeys; you may hear the howler monkeys especially if you stay at a campground near the ruins. As you explore the ruins, try to picture the gray stone edifices as they would have been at the peak of Palenque's power: painted bright red.

#48 bobdrake12

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Posted 26 December 2002 - 11:52 PM

http://emuseum.mnsu....a/palenque.html

Palenque

Palenque is a ruin city that is part of the Maya civilization that dates back to 100 BC to its fall around 800 BC. It is located on the western edge of the Maya empire near the present-day city of Chiapas, Mexico. The ruins left behind are very well preserved and maintained by local people as well as anthropologists. Currently, it is one of the most popular ruins for tourists from around the world to visit.

Palenque is located at about 9000 feet above sea level overlooking the lower coastal plain stretching to the Gulf of Mexico about 80 miles to the north. The ruins can be found throughout a thick forest of mahogany, cedar and sapodilla trees, which in turn has kept the ruins hidden for many years until it was discovered by the Spaniards in the mid to late eighteenth century. In early morning hours the ruins are often covered in a blanket of fog. The fog, combined with the sun and trees produces one of the most aesthetically grand ruins ever visited. The site of Palenque stays at an average temperature of 79 degrees Fahrenheit and remains humid with an average precipitation per year of 85 inches of rain.

The Ancient Maya people that lived in Palenque had a refined system of writing. They had an extensive written language which was both phonetic and ideographic. Maya words were written in hieroglyphs with each picture having its own meaning. Unlike other ancient central American civilizations, the Maya could write in words, sentences, and even stories. Arranging several pictures together in a logical form would create a story. The Maya covered their cities and buildings with hieroglyphs carved into stone. Most of the Maya could read some hieroglyphs, but the priests and nobles were the only people who actually had knowledge of the entire language. They would use quills made of turkey feathers to write in books made of soft bark taken from a type of fig tree.

Religion was the center of the Maya life. The Maya believed that there were two levels of the world, the first level was the physical world and the second was the spiritual world consisting of dead ancestors, gods, and other supernatural creatures. The Maya kings and spiritual leaders would tell the lower levels of the society what would please the Gods. The Gods were modeled after animals for sacrificial purposes and religious ceremonies. They had an understanding of astronomy, engineering, and mathematics. The Maya priests studied their measurement of time that consisted of a calendar with 18 months, each containing 20 days, plus 5 unlucky days that made up the Maya year. They also had a religious calendar that had 260 days to which they gave a name and a number. They believed that each day was a God that carried the weight of the day on its back.

The Maya civilization in all stages has been based on agriculture. Indian corn or maize was domesticated from a wild grass in central Mexico about 7,000 years ago and it provided most of the food at that time. It is well known that the Maya enjoyed chocolate and they consumed it in many forms from a frothy drink to a pulpy mush. The Maya referred to chocolate as "The Drink of the Gods". They had other food such as cornmeal, black beans, roasted meat, rabbit stew, turkey and other meats. Many people also chewed the leaves of the sapodilla tree as a gum-like substance.

The culture of the Maya was rich in the arts including dance, music, and brightly colored clothing. They had more than 5,000 dances and they loved music. Dancing was a huge part of religious ceremonies where musicians played wooden flutes and trumpets made of wood, seashells, or clay, and drums made from turtle shells. For clothing, the men would have worn a loincloth and the women would wear loose sack-like dresses. The cloths of the nobles and priests were made of finer materials and had many shells and beads on them. For ceremonies they would wear beautiful headdresses. They practiced body deformation such as tying boards to the forehead of newborn children. Also, some had filed their teeth down to a point and then placed jade into the holes.

Although the sight of Palenque originated at about 100 BC, it did not become a major population with importance in the Maya culture until 600 AD. At this time their greatest ruler, Pacal, assumed power. Pacal took power in 603 AD and ruled for 68 years. During his rule, he emphasized the construction grand buildings to reflect his power. One of his great structures was the Palace. The Palace was made with mansard-type roofs and the walls were covered with priceless stucco carvings of rulers, gods, and ceremonies that have taken place. On the inside of the palace were a plethora of rooms with interior courts that overlooked a four-story square tower that may have served as both lookout and observatory for the people of that time. Underneath the palace and through a long, corbel-vaulted tunnel, a stream ran through carrying a constant supply of running water. Flowing water through a monumental structure like that was a feat of engineering genius. Some say the Palace may not have been lived in because of the cold dampness of the rooms and no sign of people living there.

Another structure Pacal had built would end up being his eternal resting place, the Pyramid of Inscriptions. In this Pyramid he was buried at the age of 80 year old upon the end of his 68-year reign. The importance of this burial site is that it is the most extraordinary feature of Palenque with a tomb that held the sarcophagus of Pacal, an unusually tall ruler. Within this sarcophagus was the richest offering of jade ever seen in a Maya tomb. Placed over his face, a mask fitted with jade mosaic and a suit of priceless jade adorned his body. Each piece of hand- carved jade was threaded together with gold wire.

The Maya were an incredible civilization and nobody knows exactly why the empire fell. Some people believe it was from disease, famine, or civil war. Someday we may know more of the secrets of Palenque because archeological excavations are ongoing at the site. With time, hopefully all the mysteries of Palenque will be revealed.

#49 thefirstimmortal

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Posted 27 December 2002 - 03:09 AM

QUOTE (bobdrake12 @ Dec 25, 2002 - 1:23 PM)

Love the hardscape. Might play around with that concept someday.

#50 bobdrake12

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Posted 27 December 2002 - 04:30 AM

QUOTE
Love the hardscape. Might play around with that concept someday.


The First Immortal,

I would appreciate it if you would post your work.

Have you played around with accoustics?

bob

http://www.innerx.ne...civ.html#mesoam

At the Mayan Pyramid I at Tikal



a person standing on the top step speaking in a normal voice
can be heard by those at ground level for some distance.


At the 3 pyramids of the Group of the Cross at Palenque



a three-way conversation can be held at the tops of the three pyramids.

#51 thefirstimmortal

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Posted 27 December 2002 - 05:15 AM

QUOTE
I would appreciate it if you would you post your work.


I got pics of the wall I started last year. I hae to learn how to use my scanner. I'm thinking sometime in January I'll get that done. When I do, I'll gladly post them.

I like the swirly slope wall, looks real sweet.

#52 thefirstimmortal

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Posted 27 December 2002 - 05:18 AM

Some Mayan villagers practice a unique form of logging. If a tree is too large to be felled with an ax, the natives cut it down by yelling at it. (Can’t lay my hands on the article, but I swear I read it.) Woodsmen with special powers creep up on a tree just at dawn and suddenly scream at it at the top of their lungs. They continue this for thirty days. The tree dies and falls over. The theory is that the hollering kills the spirit of the tree. According to the villagers, it always works.

#53 thefirstimmortal

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Posted 27 December 2002 - 05:21 AM

Ah, those poor naive innocents. Such quaintly charming habits of the jungle. Screaming at trees, indeed. How primitive. Too bad they don’t have the advantages of modern technology and the scientific mind.

I yell at my girlfriend. And yell at the telephone and the lawn mower. And yell at the TV and the news­paper. I’ve even been known to shake my fist and yell at the sky at times.

Man next door yells at his car a lot. And this summer I heard him yell at a stepladder for most of an after­noon. We modern, urban, educated folks yell at traffic and umpires and bills and banks and machines, especially machines. Machines and relatives get most of the yelling.

Don’t know what good it does. Machines and things just sit there. Even kicking doesn’t always help. As for people, well, the Myans may have a point. Yelling at living things does tend to kill the spirit in them.

#54 bobdrake12

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Posted 27 December 2002 - 09:28 PM

QUOTE
Yelling at living things does tend to kill the spirit in them.


The First Immortal,

Those that yell normally cannot handle stress; thus, their reward is premature death.

Unfortunately, a death-oriented society has been the culture of far too many earth humans.

bob

http://www.catastrop...-digest/1997-2/



Human sacrifice performed by Mayan priests, From Encyclopaedia Mythica (page 3)

#55 bobdrake12

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Posted 27 December 2002 - 09:51 PM

How much has the culture of death changed since the times of the Maya?

Was the new system installed by the Spanish "liberators"' really any better for the Native Americans than their old culture?

How often have the peddlers of death justified their oppression with slogans such as?:

"For the greater good."

"The end justifies the means."

bob


http://www.cruisingw...p?articleID=619

Playing Ball with the Mayans (excerpts)
Copán Ruinas, Honduras, C.A.

February 1, 2002
By Copán Ruinas, Honduras, C.A.




A Mayan holding a human heart over the fire in sacrifice to please the gods

In Chichén Itzá in Mexico, which also has a beautiful ball court, the walls of which are carved into hundreds of skulls, our guide there had speculated it was the losers who were sacrificed—a potent incentive not to dawdle. We mentioned this inconsistency to José.




The mysterious ball court, where games were played, and the outcome meant life or death

"It was either the winners or the losers who were killed after the game," he said. "We're not really sure which."

"I'd certainly like to get that sorted out before I started playing," whispered Bernadette.




An obsidian knife found at Copán Ruinas that was once used for sacrificial "surgeries" to remove the hearts of live victims

At Copán, it's assumed that the games were played to please the gods and solve some problem that vexed the community. The priests decided who the best players were and awarded them post-game cardiotomies, first-class tickets on the fast train to the underworld—considered by the Mayans a much better place to be. It fascinates me that in the Mayan cosmology, one descended, not ascended to glory.

#56 fruitimmortal

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Posted 29 December 2002 - 03:26 AM

QUOTE (bobdrake12 @ Dec 27, 2002 - 4:51 PM)
How much has the culture of death changed since the times of the Maya?

Was the new system installed by the Spanish "liberators"' really any better for the Native Americans than their old culture?

How often have the peddlers of death justified their oppression with slogans such as?:

"For the greater good."

"The end justifies the means."

bob


http://www.cruisingw...p?articleID=619

Playing Ball with the Mayans (excerpts)
Copán Ruinas, Honduras, C.A.

February 1, 2002
By Copán Ruinas, Honduras, C.A.




A Mayan holding a human heart over the fire in sacrifice to please the gods

In Chichén Itzá in Mexico, which also has a beautiful ball court, the walls of which are carved into hundreds of skulls, our guide there had speculated it was the losers who were sacrificed—a potent incentive not to dawdle. We mentioned this inconsistency to José.




The mysterious ball court, where games were played, and the outcome meant life or death

"It was either the winners or the losers who were killed after the game," he said. "We're not really sure which."

"I'd certainly like to get that sorted out before I started playing," whispered Bernadette.




An obsidian knife found at Copán Ruinas that was once used for sacrificial "surgeries" to remove the hearts of live victims

At Copán, it's assumed that the games were played to please the gods and solve some problem that vexed the community. The priests decided who the best players were and awarded them post-game cardiotomies, first-class tickets on the fast train to the underworld—considered by the Mayans a much better place to be. It fascinates me that in the Mayan cosmology, one descended, not ascended to glory.

What is the Law of History? [ph34r] and Living organizims? REPEAT until Death ??

#57 bobdrake12

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Posted 29 December 2002 - 01:04 PM

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What is the Law of History?


Fruitimmortal,

History can have apologists which are out to smooth things over rather than to tell what really happened.

bob

http://www.sonicmatt...mTour/24_1a.htm



The priest Diego de Landa was a strong evangelizer for the catholic faith in the early years of the Spanish in the Yucatan. He was keen to effectively eradicate the Mayan religion and culture. He led a famous purge through the land to uncover and destroy any Mayan artifact found by the Spanish. During this purge, many valuable Mayan codices (of which there are only 3 remains of still in existence) were burnt and thousands of Maya were tortured.

#58 bobdrake12

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Posted 29 December 2002 - 01:19 PM



“Where they have burned books, they will end in burning human beings.”

~ Heinrich Heine, from his play Almansor (1821)


http://emuseum.mnsu....anda_deigo.html

Bishop Diego de Landa


Bishop Diego de Landa, the second bishop of the Yucatan, is a central figure in Mayan history. He is famous for two reasons. The first is that he wrote “Relacion de las Cosas de Yucatan.” In this book he describes the Mayan language and how to translate it. During the conquest, Bishop Diego de Landa did studies of the Maya culture with a series of interviews and research. It is said that he asked some of his native “friends” how to write ‘a’, ‘b’, ‘c’, and so on, assuming that they used an alphabet. However, the Maya used glyphs and an alphabet completely different from the Spanish alphabet. They heard ‘ah’, ‘beh’, ‘se’ and gave him the glyphs that matched those phones in their language. Landa wrote down a sketchy summary of these in his book and these glyphs are being used to day to translate the remaining Mayan texts.

Almost all of what is known about Mayan writing is from three books. The rest were destroyed by the Spanish, and Bishop Diego de Landa, in particular. He felt that the books were inspired by the devil. This destruction of books is the second thing for which de Landa is known. In July of 1562, de Landa burned five thousand idols and 27 hieroglyphic rolls at Mani in the Yucatan. This was not the only occasion that de Landa destroyed books; he is the main reason that so few examples of Mayan hieroglyphs exist today. Bishop Diego de Landa also tortured and killed many Mayans. There are records of burning people alive, hanging them from trees, mutilation and drownings. Landa and others believed that the Spanish were so small in number that they had to use these tactics to scare the local population in order to achieve conquest.


Resources:

From electric library- Age of the Scribe: Deciphering the Secrets of the Mayas (International Herald Tribune) Souren Melikian; 12-27-97.

From electric library- Cover Archaeology: SECRETS OF THE MAYA. After a century and a half of research, scientists are finally unraveling the mystery of who the Maya were, how they lived –and why their civilization suddenly stopped. (Time) Michael D. Lemonick 08-09-1993.

#59 bobdrake12

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Posted 29 December 2002 - 01:37 PM

http://www.macduffev...nstatement.html

The Modern Maya

The Maya in the Yucatán prospered in this environment and their cities reached their zenith between 800 - 1000 A.D.

Although the Maya abandoned some sites, they were still living in their cities and practicing their religion when the Spanish arrived. In 1562, Fray Diego de Landa destroyed 5,000 idols and burned twenty-seven hieroglyphic rolls at the auto-da-fé of Mani. "We found a large number of books," he wrote, "in these characters (Maya writing) and as they contained nothing in which there were not to be seen superstition and lies of the devil, we burned them all, which they regretted to an amazing degree, and which caused them much affliction."

The gathered Maya watched two thousand years of their collected culture burn. Landa, who later became bishop of Yucatán, claimed that Spain brought to the Maya "justice and Christianity, and the peace in which they live."

However, the Spanish brought diseases which the American Indians had no resistance to; the first epidemics killed from one-third to one-half of the Indians in Mesoamerica. They died from cholera, malaria, measles, plague, syphilis, smallpox, tuberculosis, typhoid, and typhus. They died at the hands of the Spanish soldiers, from religious persecution, and from overwork as slaves. By the end of the first one hundred years of Spanish rule in Mexico, the Indian population had been reduced by as much as 90 percent.

#60 bobdrake12

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Posted 29 December 2002 - 02:30 PM

http://www.geocities...ndSavagery.html


HUMAN SACRIFICE AMONG THE AZTECS?

Copyright World Press Review Dec 1992


An aura of lurid fascination surrounds our interest in the Aztecs, the people who, at the beginning of the 16th century, inhabited one of the largest cities of the world: Tenochtitlan. In 1521, this metropolis was erased from the face of the Earth by the Spanish conquerors under Hernando Cortes and his Indian allies. As a justification for their destructive acts, the conquistadors generated propaganda designed to offend the sensibilities of their Christian audience: They described the Aztec practice of human sacrifice. Later chronicles by Spanish writers, missionaries, and even Indian converts also told repeatedly of this cult. Even when scientists called these reports grossly exaggerated, the fact that the Aztecs sacrificed humans remained undisputed. Cutting out the victim's heart with an obsidian knife [fashioned from volcanic glass] was supposedly the most common method of sacrifice, although other forms were practiced as well. These included beheading, piercing with spears or arrows, and setting victims against each other in unequal duels. We are also told that some victims were literally skinned alive; a priest then donned this macabre "skin suit" to perform a ritual dance.

There has been no shortage of theories and explanations for what lay behind these archaic cults. Some researchers have deemed them religious rituals. Others have called them displays of repressed aggression and even a method of regulating population. Although human sacrifice has been the subject of much writing, there has been almost no critical examination of the sources of information about it. A critical review is urgently needed.

Bernal Diaz del Castillo is the classic source of information about mass sacrifice by the Aztecs. A literate soldier in Cortes' company, Diaz claimed to have witnessed such a ritual. "We looked over toward the Great Pyramids and watched as [the Aztecs] ... dragged [our comrades] up the steps and prepared to sacrifice them," he wrote in his Historia Verdadera de la Conquista de la Nueva Espana (The True History of the Conquest of New Spain), published posthumously in 1632. "After they danced, they placed our comrades face up atop square, narrow stones erected for the sacrifices. Then, with obsidian knives, they sawed their breasts open, pulled out their still-beating hearts, and offered these to their idols."

The scene of these sacrificial rituals was the main temple in the island-city of Tenochtitlan. The observers, however, were watching from their camp on the shore of a lake three or four miles away. From that point, Diaz could have neither seen nor heard anything. To follow the action at the foot of the pyramid, he would have to have been inside the temple grounds. But this would have been impossible: The Aztecs had just beaten back the Spanish and their allies, who had been besieging the city from all sides.

But Diaz is not the inventor of the legend of ritual murder. Cortes fathered the lie in 1522, when he wrote a shorter version of the tale to Emperor Charles V. He would have been confident that his reports would find ready ears, for in the 15th and 16th centuries many lies were being spread in Spain about ritual murders carried out by the Jews, who were being expelled from the Iberian peninsula along with the Moors. Cortes' lies were a tremendous success: They have endured for almost 500 years without challenge. Along with the lies of the conquistadors, there also have been secondhand reports--what could be called "hearsay evidence"--in the writings of Spanish missionaries and their Indian converts, who, in their new-found zeal, scorned their old religion. The accounts are filled with vague and banal phrases such as, "And thus they sacrificed," which indicates that the writers cannot have witnessed a real human sacrifice.

The only concrete evidence comes to us not from the Aztecs but from the Mayan civilization of the Yucatan. These depictions are found in the records of trials conducted during the Inquisition, between 1561 and 1565. These supposed testimonies about human sacrifice, however, were coerced from the Indians under torture and have been judged worthless as ethnographic evidence.

Along with the written accounts, many archeological finds--sculptures, frescoes, wall paintings, and pictographs--have been declared by the Spanish, their Indian converts, and later anthropologists to be connected to human sacrifice. Yet these images are in no way proof that humans were in fact sacrificed.

Until now, scientists have started from a position of believing the lies and hearsay reports and interpreting the archeological evidence accordingly. The circularity of such reasoning is obvious. There are plenty of possible interpretations of the images of hearts and even killings in these artifacts. They could depict myths or legends. They could present narrative images--allegories, symbols, and metaphors. They could even be images of ordinary executions or murders. Human bones that appear to have been cut also do not serve as evidence of human sacrifice. In tantric Buddhism, skulls and leg bones are used to make musical instruments used in religious rituals; this is in no way connected to human sacrifice.

Leslie J. Furst, a student of symbols used by the Aztecs, has seen depictions of magic where others have seen tales of human sacrifice. For example, one image shows the incarnation of a female god "beheaded" in the same way that a plant's blossom is removed in the ritual connected to the making of pulque, an alcoholic drink. Why scholars have interpreted images of self-beheadings and other things that depart from physical reality as evidence of human sacrifice will puzzle future generations.

There is another important symbolic background for images of killing in Aztec artifacts: the initiation ceremony, whose central event is the mystical death. The candidate "dies" in order to be reborn. This "death" in imaginary or symbolic forms often takes on a dramatic shape in imagery--such as being chopped to pieces or swallowed by a monster. There has been no research into the symbolism of death in the high culture of the Indians of Mesoamerica, however, even though there were many reincarnation myths among these peoples.

The ritual of "human skinning" surely belongs in this same category. In our depictions, we see the skin removed quickly from the victim, with a single cut along the spine, and coming off the body in a single piece. This is scarcely practicable. This "human skin suit" may be nothing but a metaphorical-symbolic representation, as indeed is appropriate for the image-rich Aztec language. And all of the heart and blood symbolism may be just a metaphor for one of the Aztecs' favorite drinks, made from cacao.

The heart is a symbolically important organ in more than just European cultures. In the Indian languages, as well, it is a symbol of courage and the soul. And "cutting the soul from the body," after all, is not a surgical operation. This may explain why no massive catacombs with what would have been the bones of sacrifice victims have ever been found in Mesoamerica.

After careful and systematic study of the sources, I find no sign of evidence of institutionalized mass human sacrifice among the Aztecs. The phenomenon to be studied, therefore, may be not these supposed sacrifices but the deeply rooted belief that they occurred.

From the liberal weekly "Die Zeit" of Hamburg. Peter Hassler, an ethnologist at the University of Zurich, is the author of "Human Sacrifice Among the Aztecs? A Critical Study," published recently in Switzerland.

HUMAN SACRIFICE AMONG THE AZTECS?

Copyright World Press Review Dec 1992




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