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[bobdrake12]

Uxmal - The secrets of the power of Chac? Also what is the moon the generator of?

bob


http://www.mexconnec...ldmayacity.html

UXMAL


Construction work in Uxmal began in the 6th century A.D., but the effort went on for more than 600 years. This is the most important Puuc style city in the Mayan country. The name Puuc comes from some very modest elevations found nearby, which the Yucatecans refer to as the "Sierra" Puuc.

The low half of each edifice in Uxmal is plain and unadorned, while the superior half is decorated with elaborate limestone mosaics and carved masks that represent the god Chac, the big nosed god of rain. The buildings in Uxmal are huge, but not very high, something that lends an elegant and sober air to the city. The soft colors of the limestone almost blend with the surroundings.




The Pyramid of the Soothsayer. In the background, The Palace of the Governor, the Pyramid of the Dwarfs, The Temple of the Turtles and the Pigeon House.

Photo by Luis Dumois


Pyramid of the Wizard/Soothsayer



Photo by Luis Dumois

This temple rests upon a massive basement of elliptical shape, with a highly slanted talus. The staircase, protected by rows of masks carved in stone, climbs to the top and to the temple itself, which is soberly decorated.

[bobdrake12]

http://www.azteca.ne...isp/uxmal.shtml





Uxmal Aerial View © 1990 Alti Publishing

Built by the Mayan Indians of Yucatan, Mexico

[bobdrake12]

http://www.grandpooh...mages/uxmal.jpg



Temple of the Wizard located at Uxmal


http://www.spiritofm...n_itinerary.htm

Uxmal, Yucatàn: The name Uxmal means "three times" or "thrice built." The crown jewel of Yucatàn's Puuc Hill region, Uxmal is the most elaborate and elegant city ever built by the Maya. This powerful magnetic vortex is a place of education where the secrets of the Moon, Love, Sex, and Balance are taught. There are many mystical temples here, among them the Pyramid of the Wizard, he Temple of the Sun, and the House of the Turtle. The focus of Uxmal is on Love, Heart, and Balancing Masculine and Feminine energy.

[bobdrake12]

http://www.timeforki...xico/uxmal.html




Uxmal

The Pyramid of the Magician stands near the entrance of the city of Uxmal, an ancient Mayan site. According to legend, the pyramid was built in a single day by the son of a sorceress. In reality, it was built over a period of centuries. Today, descendants of the Mayan Indians live in places like Mexico City.

[bobdrake12]

http://www.ucalgary....es/uxmal-01.jpg



Uxmal, Mexico


http://utenti.lycos.it/antigravitys/

The megalithic structures found at various sites around the world have generated endless controversy as to how they were built. Conventional archaeologists, who dismiss the possibility of highly advanced civilizations in the remote past, insist that they were built solely with the use of primitive tools and brute force. Some of the structures, or parts of them, could have been built in this way. However, a number of engineers have stated that some features would be difficult if not impossible to duplicate today, even using the most advanced technology. The sheer weight and size of some of the stone blocks have prompted several researchers to wonder whether the ancient builders had mastered some form of levitation technology.

The pre-Incan fortresses at Ollantaytambo and Sacsayhuaman in the Peruvian Andes consist of cyclopean walls constructed from tight-fitting polygonal stone blocks, some weighing 120 tonnes or more. The blocks used at Ollantaytambo were somehow transported from a quarry located on another mountaintop 11 km away, the descent from which was impeded by a river canyon with 305-metre vertical rock walls. The ruins of Tiahuanaco near Lake Titicaca in Bolivia include a number of blocks weighing around 100 tonnes, which were transported from quarries 50 km away. According to the local Aymara Indians, the complex was built at the 'beginning of time' by the founder-god Viracocha and his followers, who caused the stones to be 'carried through the air to the sound of a trumpet'. An alternative theme is that they created a 'heavenly fire' that consumed the stones and enabled large blocks to be lifted by hand 'as if they were cork'. According to a Mayan legend, the temple complex of Uxmal in the Yucatan Peninsula was built by a race of dwarfs who were able to move heavy rocks into place by whistling.

[bobdrake12]

http://www.derryfami...ne/yucatan.html

UXMAL



Uxmal means "thrice built" or "thrice occupied" in Maya.




Uxmal is acclaimed to be the architectural masterpiece of the Maya civilization. The Great Pyramid, the Palace of the Governors, the House of the Magician and the Nunnery Quadrangle are magnificent structures; and the extensive restoration work performed at this site gives visitors a spectacular experience of the scope and grandeur of this powerful city.


Uxmal achieved its greatest glory between 800 and 1000 AD, although its decline did not apparently come as a consequence of the rise of CHICHEN ITZA to the east. The bulk of the structures we see today are multi-roomed, and are thought to be the homes of a large and powerful elite class. Archeologists can only guess at how many thousands of peasants, living in the surrounding countryside, were commanded by these warrior-nobles. Exquisite carving, mosaics and other decorations typify many of the structures, which represent some of the finest of achievements of what is known as the Puuc architectural style.


Some very fine carved stelae have been discovered here, and the study of their inscriptions and those found on the buildings themselves has played an important role in the ongoing decoding of Mayan writing. Most Mayan numbers, more than half of their alphabet, and many other important symbols, or glyphs, have now been deciphered by the experts, and the evidence from Uxmal has provided essential clues in solving this ancient mystery.


Paradoxically, not that much is known about the civilization here. Only one ruler, Lord Chac, has been specifically identified. The people may have been less war-like than some of their cousins in other Mayan city-states, as there are few of the monuments and inscriptions celebrating victory in battle that are so prevalent at other sites. Being reasonably close to the coast, Uxmal probably engaged in considerable trade; agriculture and perhaps salt production were other key industries. The large ball-court tells us that sports and recreation -- at least for the upper classes -- were also part of life in Uxmal.

[bobdrake12]

http://community-2.w...MayanInitiatic/

Mayan Initiatic Centers/ Hunbatz Men

According to Hunbatz, we are now participating in a new cycle of the Mayan calendars, which synchronize the cycles of time with human beings.

High knowledge is coming, we must prepare to receive it. This is the time when the Maya believe they must work with others to reopen the schools of ancient knowledge--to teach the first stage of understanding. We can learn what each of the sacred centers of the world has to offer us, so that we may become the kinds of human beings needed for this new solar age.

He says that we will have fully entered the New Itza Age by the year 2013. It is time to work into the deepest part of our beings to regain the information we have impressed there--in the spiral of our DNA. Only in this way will millenial information rise into our conscious awareness, reminding us of an ancient time when knowledge was unified and there was no separation between science and religion.

The eyes of modern civilization see only a short span of time. To the European-American culture, five hundred years seems to be a lot of time. But five hundred years is nothing in the eyes of the Maya.

The culture of the Maya teaches the great secrets Mother Nature holds. The Maya understood, as modern science is discovering, that all matter is vibration. Therefore, human life is linked to the heavenly bodies by cosmobiological law. The Maya understood this and made it part of their lives and culture. It is written in time and in the memory of the Indian peoples that our Sun will rise again, that we will be able to reestablish our culture--its arts, sciences, mathematics, and religion. Mayan knowledge will come forward again. It is for this reason that we of the Amerindian communities are once again uniting to reestablish our entire culture. (p.230)


Altogether the Maya have seventeen calendars. One calendar, the Tzolkin, corresponds to the eleven-year sunspot cycle. Haab is a calendar of cultural consummation, based on a cycle of fifty-two years. According to this calendar, every fifty-two years the frequency of human being shifts. Another calendar of twenty-six thousand years, Tzek'er, is based on the Pleiades, a constellation known in Western folklore as the Seven Sisters. According to the Mayan tradition, our Sun is actually part of the Pleiades, and orbits in concert with the other stars of this constellation. The joint rotation of all the stars in the Pleiades, including our Sun, is but a minor motion within the huge, 400-billion-star spiral of our local galaxy, the Milky Way. The Maya have known about the Milky Way for thousands of years, and they make ceremonies to help hold the balance of the galaxy. Hunbatz says that, by contrast, modern science has yet to discover our Sun's connection with the Pleiades. (p.231).

At this point in time, the twenty-six-thousand-year cycle may be coming to an end, or to a peak-a thirteen thousand year midway point. ...We are at a critical turning point, we know the sun is going to help us. This is the cosmic law. Under the terms of cosmic law, a fast car, big money, and a fancy education do nothing for the cosmos. With our technologies we think we are superior, but before the universe we are nothing. We have created in this time a personal culture, instead of a community. (Hunbatz, p. 231)

The calendar of 26,000 years is new for the dominant civilization. It is based on the rotation of the Pleiades, the constellation of which our Sun is part. This calendar portends big changes, a new age. But before this big frequency change is complete, we need to work, to regain the consciousness of the Sun. We need to gain respect for all this cosmic knowledge. If the people don't do that, the change is going to come ayway because no one can stop it. It's not possible to stop. When the people begin to feel the big changes they may be confused. The Sun will wake up everything to life. It shines on all of us, not just some.

Right now, Hunbatz counsels, we need to work with our energy bodies so they will be able to cope with the intensifying energy frequencies in the world, a trend that he says will continue into the foreseeable future. One way to strengthen and stabilize the energy body is through chants and mantras such as those the Maya use. Another important way is through pilgrimmage to holy sites around the Earth.

For the Maya it is the new age--time to give away the knowledge again, to raise the frequency of the global mind. ...One important part of doing this is reopening the Mayan initiatic centers, the temples and pyramids of the Yucatan, Guatemala, and Honduras. (I might add Belize.)

" As foretold in the Mayan sacred calendars, now is the time to reconsecrate the sacred pyramids and temples, and all the other sacred sites of the Americas. In so doing, we can help bring about the respiritualization of the people and the healing of the Earth. Pilgrimmages to the magnetic center of Mayan lands are necessary to assist in the enlightenment of the human race." (Hunbatz, p. 233).


Most of the Elders know about this--that it is time to reopen the old centers, to go there with respect, and to begin to receive information.

In 1988, with the support of other Elders and Shamans, Hunbatz led the first of a series of pilgrimmages to cleanse the temples of the dust of several centuries--to reopen and reconsecrate them so they could be used for sacred work.

Over one hundred men and women of all ages, and many nations, participated in the first historic journey to the Yucatan to begin the process foretold by the Mayan calendars. For the first time in five hundred years, the temples reverberated with the heat, light, and sound of ceremony performed in their grand plazas.

In 1989 they reopened Nah Chan, Etz Nah, Uxmal, Kabah, LolTun, and Chichen Itza. Then in 1990 they reopened Tik'al, Quilghua, and Copan, completing the work of reactivating the Mayan initiatic centers. The pilgrimmages will continue each year until 2013, when the transition to the New Itza Age will be complete.

"We must reopen these places where the knowledge of the great mysteries is deposited, because spirits of the ancient teachers are awaiting the new mind of humanity in order that these sacred places might be revived and indicate the correct path to humanity. The pyramids of Mesoamerica are not tombs. Hunbatz explains.."but places to work with other dimensions of consciousnss, places to understand time. ...We go to the pyramids because the energy flow in there makes for a different vibration. We can use this to help make subtle changes in the frequency of our brain waves. In there we can make the connection with the magnetic forces of the Earth and the cosmos. The geometrical form of the pyramids helps people to transform themselves, to raise their consciousness by raising the frequency of their brain waves. We hope something big is going to happen because of these ceremonies and all the other sacred activities around the world--that the frequency of the modern mind is going to change in a positive way." (Hunbatz Men, 1991, p. 233)

See references. Excerpt from Profiles in Wisdom
editor. Stephen McFadden.(1990) NM:Bear & Co.
Hunbatz Men
Comunidad Indigena Maya
APDO, Postal 7-013
Merida 7
Yucatan, Mexico

[bobdrake12]

http://faculty.salis...8/html/lec2.htm




6.5 Long Term Complication: Precession



Figure: The Earth's axis of rotation precesses, that is it wobbles around in a circular pattern like a spinning top wobbles as it spins.


Earth Wobbles (but it won't fall down) like a spinning top.

26,000 year cycle (a complete cycle), Earth's axis remains at 23.5o while precessing. Consequences!

o Pole Star is temporary! (Polaris now, Vega in about 13,000 years.)
o Seasons Drift!! What? The seasons shift through calendar over time!
o Orbital Sidereal Year - one complete orbit around the Sun (365d,6h,9m,10s)
o Tropical Year (Year of Seasons) - time between one vernal equinox and the next vernal equinox. (365d,5h,48m,46s)
o RESULT: 13,000 orbits = 13000.5 seasonal cycles!

NOTE! Speaking of which! When did the "new" millennium start? 2001? 2000? Or how about around 1995? 1996? Little known trivia! Our Gregorian Calendar is wrong! Gregorian Monks trying to correct for leap years, leap seconds, etc… attempted to "fix" the calendar system a few centuries ago and messed up. They made about a 4 year error. The (Western) "new millennium" has already happened!! Hey! Not to mention, what about other calendars? Hindu, Chinese? Tibetian? All have many different years associated with them.

[bobdrake12]

http://www-istp.gsfc...ze/Sprecess.htm

The Precession of the Earth's Axis




Precession of a spinning top: the spin axis traces the surface of a cone


What does this motion tell us about the Earth's motion in space? If you ever had a spinning top, you know that its axis tends to stay lined up in the same direction--usually, vertically, though in space any direction qualifies.

Give it a nudge, however, and the axis will start to gyrate wildly around the vertical, its motion tracing a cone (drawing). The spinning Earth moves like that, too, though the time scale is much slower--each spin lasts a year, and each gyration around the cone takes 26 000 years. The axis of the cone is perpendicular to the plane of the ecliptic.

The cause of the precession is the equatorial bulge of the Earth, caused by the centrifugal force of the Earth's rotation (the centrifugal force is discussed in a later section). That rotation changes the Earth from a perfect sphere to a slightly flattened one, thicker across the equator. The attraction of the Moon and Sun on the bulge is then the "nudge" which makes the Earth precess.

Through each 26 000-year cycle, the direction in the sky to which the axis points goes around a big circle, the radius of which covers an angle of about 23.50. The pole star to which the axis points now (within about one degree) used to be distant from the pole, and will be so again in a few thousand years (for your information, the closest approach is in 2017). Indeed, the "pole star" used by ancient Greek sailors was a different one, not nearly as close to the pole.

Because of the discovery mady by Hipparchus, the word "precession" itself no longer means "shift forward" but is now applied to any motion of a spin axis around a cone--for instance, the precession of a gyroscope in an airplane's instrument, or the precession of a spinning satellite in space.

Precession of a spinning scientific payload (also known as its "coning"--from "cone"--or its "nutation") is an unwelcome feature, because it complicates the tracking of its instruments. To eliminate it, such satellites use "nutation dampers," small tubes partially filled with mercury. If the satellite spins as it was designed to do, the mercury merely flows to the part of the tube most distant from the spin axis, and stays there. However, if the axis of rotation precesses, the mercury sloshes back and forth in the tube. Its friction then consumes energy, and since the source of the sloshing is the precession of the spin axis, that precession (very gradually) loses energy and dies down.

[In the section on the calendar, we saw that the Earth's rotation is slowed down very gradually by the tides, raised by the gravity of the Moon. That process is a bit similar to the action of nutation dampers: the energy of the tides is "lost"--that is, converted to heat--when the waves caused by tides break up on the seashore, and that loss is ultimately taken away from the rotational motion (not the precession) of the Earth]

Author and curator: David P. Stern, audavstern("at" symbol)erols.com
Last updated 10 October 2002

[bobdrake12]

http://www.onr.navy....precession2.htm



Observing the Sky: Precession of the Equinoxes (excerpts)

Long ago, people began identifying themselves by what zodiac sign they were "born under." Even today you can check the newspaper for your horoscope, a prediction supposedly based on the movements of heavenly bodies. But many of the zodiac signs with which we identify are wrong. For example, if you look up the horoscope for a person born on January 8th, you will find that person is a Capricorn, which should mean the Sun was in the constellation Capricornus on January 8th. But if you look on a celestial sphere or use a computer program such as Starry Night™, you'll find that the Sun is actually passing through Sagittarius on January 8th. You'll also find that many other birthdates seem to be misplaced. What's going on? Many, many years ago when people first started practicing astrology, the Sun could be found in Capricornus on January 8th. But since then, our view from Earth has changed (and with it the Sun's apparent location) because in addition to its rotation and revolution, the Earth wobbles.

Earth wobbles like a spinning top that has slowed down and is about to fall over. The wobble is caused by the planet's odd shape. Instead of being perfectly round, the Earth is an oblate spheroid, which is a globe that's slightly flattened at the poles and bulging at the equator. The gravitational pulls of the Sun and Moon tug at this bulge and cause the Earth to wobble very slowly.

The Earth completes one wobble every 26,000 years. If you drew a line from the North Pole into space, it would trace out a circle over the course of those 26,000 years. Today the pole points toward Polaris, but it is slowly moving and in 13,000 years will point toward a star named Vega. For many thousands of years during this rotation, the axis doesn't point at anything in particular. It is just a lucky coincidence that today it points at Polaris, giving us a nice reference point in the sky.


CyberScientist@onr.navy.mil

[bobdrake12]

http://www.mayamyste...t/longcount.htm

Maya Mystery School of Northern California

Long Count Calendar (excerpts)



The Long Count Calendar represents a cycle of time that is approximately 5,125 years, ending with the 13th cycle (Bahaou). Each cycle lasts about 394 years or 144,000 days. Currently, we are in the 12th Baktun, which will end on December 20, 2012 or the Mayan Calendar date of 13.0.0.0.0. The Bahaou can be understood in terms of our own age; when we turn 12, we are actually moving into our 13th year or cycle, having already lived 12 years. When we fulfill our 12 years (Baktun) we become 13.

The Long Count Calendar date starts on August 11, 3114 B.C. although the calendar itself was not in existence until 2,100 years ago, when it was calculated and invented. The day also coincided with a conjunction to the star Sirius. The Mayans believed that there were five great ages and we live in the last one. The combination of each great age represents approximately 26,000 years, or one precession of the equinox, starting and terminating at the winter solstice when the sun conjoins the galactic center; an event that only occurs once every 26,000 years.

This conjunction is encoded into their mythology and sacred sites. The Mayans believe that this alignment is responsible for great evolutionary leaps tied to major cosmic births, transformations, and a shifting of the hemispheres of the planet and all life.

Maya Mystery School of Northern California
(650) 364-1262
Copyright © 1999 - 2002

[bobdrake12]

http://www.mayamyste.../venusround.htm

Maya Mystery School of Northern California

Venus Round Calendar

The Venus Round Calendar is tied to the Long Count Calendar with its Hero Twin myth, the Calendar Round, the Haab, and the Tzolkin. In the Hero Twin Myth, the twins attempt to resurrect the first father, Hunabku (or One Ahau). One Ahau is associated with the sacred day of Venus, the Tzolkin day that signifies the beginning of a Venus Round cycle of 104 Haab, (two Calendar Round periods) and the 20th day sign of the Tzolkin Calendar (the end/beginning of a Tzolkin month).

One Ahau has historically been associated with one of the four seasons; winter solstice, spring equinox, summer solstice, and fall equinox until about 300 years ago. Approximately 3000 years ago, around the start of the Long Count Calendar, the first Venus Round cycle was seemingly shared with the Star Regulus, which was the king of the four royal stars (four horsemen /archangel stars), and one of the four cardinal points that heralded the equinoxes and solstices during that time; in the case of Regulus the summer solstice and birth of the summer sun. In 2012, One Ahau is still associated with Regulus, the Lion Heart, but due to the precession of the equinoxes, it falls on August 22. While it no longer heralds any of the seasons, it is still considered the king of the royal stars, or Raphael, the healing archangel. It seems appropriate that when the Venus Round cycle ends in 2012 and begins anew combust Regulus, that it will herald a new age of healing and love as Father Sun completes a solstice cycle and is reborn on the winter solstice, ending the Long Count calendar.

The Long Count calendar end date is Four Ahau, or December 21st, in 2012. That corresponds to the winter solstice, which ushers the return or resurrection of the sun. The Calendar Round begins a new 52-year cycle on this date as well. In 2012, due to the precession of the equinoxes, the actual alignment of the solstice with the galactic center (birthing center) begins three days earlier on December 19th. The Venus Round cycle, if seen from the perspective of having been the first solstice sun of the Long Count cycle 3000 year ago, is now symbolically completing a solstice cycle during this rare solstice/galactic center conjunction at the end of the Long Count calendar. This will result in the symbolic rebirth Father Sun Hunabku (One Ahau). The Venus Round Calendar, in its very first solstice cycle, points to this symbolic end-date event, when the Royal Lion (Jaguar) Heart of the galactic center will rule the new age. So do the Long Count, Haab, Tzolkin, and Calendar Round. At this time, the Hero Twins succeed in resurrecting the father through the cosmic birth center and a new age of 26,000 years begins.

[bobdrake12]

http://iasos.com/artists/anenberg/




"Portal of Hunab Ku" by Andrew Annenberg

Commentary by the artist: "PORTAL of HUNAB KU also uncovers evidence of a highly sophisticated society, a civilization distant and unkown, where art and architectural remains speak of supernatural influence, of advanced tribes who mysteriously abandoned their unearthly creations. The Mayan mythology of creation speaks of Kuxan Suum, a pathway of cosmic resonance traveling through the sun, past our galaxy, to the center of our unvierse. Its destination is HUNAB KU, the source of all movement and measure, an all-pervading conscious energy that manifests the rhythm and form of our universe. Deep beneath the sea a light pulses and emanataes the life force of benefolent consciousness. Dolphins and a myriad of sea life swim about, basking in the creative energies streaming forth from Mayan ruins, rejoicing in their connection with this ancient intelligence."

[bobdrake12]

Sourcre: Maya Mystery School of Northern California - Venus Round Calendar:

The Venus Round Calendar is tied to the Long Count Calendar with its Hero Twin myth, the Calendar Round, the Haab, and the Tzolkin. In the Hero Twin Myth, the twins attempt to resurrect the first father, Hunabku (or One Ahau).

http://www.dromo.com...nomaly/604.html

The Theory of Hyperspace

According to Superstring theory, before the Big Bang, our cosmos was actually a perfect ten-dimensional universe, a world where interdimensional travel was possible. However, this ten-dimensional universe "cracked" in two, creating two separate universes: a four- and a six- dimensional universe. The universe in which we live was born in that cosmic cataclysm. Our four-dimensional universe expanded explosively, while our twin six-dimensional universe contracted violently, until it shrank to almost infinitesimal size. This would explain the origin of the Big Bang. If correct, this theory demonstrates that the rapid expansion of the universe was just a rather minor aftershock of a much greater cataclysmic event, the cracking of space and time itself. The energy that drives the observed expansion of the universe is then found in the collapse of ten-dimensional space and time. According to this theory, the distant stars and galaxies are receding from us at astronomical speeds because of the original collapse of ten-dimensional space and time.

This theory predicts that our universe still has a dwarf twin, a companion universe that has curled up into a small six-dimensional ball that is too small to be observed.

Dr. Michio Kaku - Professor of Theoretical Physics
_Hyperspace_, pg.27

6<-0->4


http://www.dromo.com...perstrings.html


The superstring theory, being a completely finite theory, gives us deeper insight into the era before the Big Bang. The theory states that at the instant of creation, the universe was actually an infinitesimal ten dimensional bubble. But this bubble (somewhat like a soap bubble) split into six- and four-dimensional bubbles. The six-dimensional universe suddenly collapsed, thereby expanding the four-dimensional universe into the standard Big Bang.

- Michio Kaku - Professor of Theoretical Physics
_Visions_

6<-0->4

[bobdrake12]

http://www.msnbc.com...superstring.gif

[Lazarus Long]

Einstein is getting a tune-up for 2003 and the issue of harmonics and Ultra Long waves, Gravitrons, and the Electromagnetic Spectrum are good a very good subject for us to pursue.

One thing one this day I would also suggest is that you delve into the story of how the Maya and subsequent groups practiced their New Year, and the missing days of the reconciliation between Lunar and Solar Calenders.

In the meantime HAPPY NEW YEAR Bob, and Happy New Year to you all!!!

[Lazarus Long]

E and mc2: Equality, It Seems, Is Relative
By DENNIS OVERBYE

Roll over, Einstein.

In science, no truth is forever, not even perhaps Einstein's theory of relativity, the pillar of modernity that gave us E=mc2.

As propounded by Einstein as an audaciously confident young patent clerk in 1905, relativity declares that the laws of physics, and in particular the speed of light — 186,000 miles per second — are the same no matter where you are or how fast you are moving.

Generations of students and philosophers have struggled with the paradoxical consequences of Einstein's deceptively simple notion, which underlies all of modern physics and technology, wrestling with clocks that speed up and slow down, yardsticks that contract and expand and bad jokes using the word "relative."

Guided by ambiguous signals from the heavens, and by the beauty of their equations, a few brave — or perhaps foolhardy — physicists now say that relativity may have limits and will someday have to be revised.

Some suggest, for example, the rate of the passage of time could depend on a clock's orientation in space, an effect that physicists hope to test on the space station. Or the speed of a light wave could depend slightly on its color, an effect, astronomers say, that could be detected by future observations of gamma ray bursters, enormous explosions on the far side of the universe.

"What makes this worth talking about is the possibility of near-term experimental implications," said Dr. Lee Smolin, a gravitational theorist at the Perimeter Institute for Theoretical Physics in Ontario.

Any hint of breakage of relativity, scientists say, could yield a clue to finding the holy grail of contemporary physics — a "theory of everything" that would marry Einstein's general theory of relativity, which describes how gravity shapes the universe, to quantum mechanics, the strange rules that govern energy and matter on subatomic scales.

Even Einstein was stumped by this so-called quantum gravity.

*******************

I will refrain from posting the entire article here because it isn't consistent with the original topic thread but I will post it entirely in a new section on String Theory and Relativity that I will start. I think that some of what you feel the ancient scientists were studying deserves to be treated as science today and this then requires off shoots from the original thread rather then burying the issues within layers of text.

What do you think Bob?

[bobdrake12]

One thing one this day I would also suggest is that you delve into the story of how the Maya and subsequent groups practiced their New Year

Lazarus Long,

Thanks for your feedback.

Feel free to post whatever you want on this subject. Sometimes getting the specific material which fits what you are discussing is tough to find on the Net

The Mayans destroyed all their pots. What a great boom for the Mayan pot business!

http://images.google...es/potterys.gif


This is somewhat similar to the traditions of the Type 0 Americans who trade their cars in to keep up with the Joneses.

http://images.google...om/RR2002_1.jpg

These models are now out of date since they are one year old!

bob



http://www.fathertim...ayannewyear.htm

The Mayans have a number of gods which were worshipped. Each year at New Year a different god was the focus of the New Year. New idols were made, the entrances and implements of the temple were reconsecrated with blue paint which was a sacred color. When everything was ready, the god would enter from the compass direction associated with them.

They would also perform domestic renewal rituals for the New Year such as destroying all their old pottery and fibre mats and putting on new clothes.

[bobdrake12]

I will refrain from posting the entire article here because it isn't consistent with the original topic thread but I will post it entirely in a new section on String Theory and Relativity that I will start. I think that some of what you feel the ancient scientists were studying deserves to be treated as science today and this then requires off shoots from the original thread rather then burying the issues within layers of text.

What do you think Bob?

Lazarus Long,

Many Americans have been brought up with the myth that the Native Americans were uncivilized savages.

To touch on what the Native Americans accomplished and might have scientifically known would be within this subject.

I agree that delving into the specific science other than just familiarizing the reader with the subject makes sense.

Have you heard of Mayan supposed paranormal knowledge such as their reported time travel ritual (The Mayans believed time is circular. Also the Mayan's reportedly had a time travel ritual that was based on their circular calendar and the power found in love.) and "out of body" experience capabilities?

bob

[bobdrake12]

http://athenapub.com/mayrount.htm

Mayapán: The Round Tower




[Fig.1: Drawing by Catherwood of the Round Tower at Mayapán (Stephens 1843).]


As Landa informs us in his Relación (1566), at Mayapán the followers of the Toltec ruler Cuculcán "built a round temple with four entrances, different from all others in the country."

The Round Tower at Mayapán, somewhat resembling the larger Caracol at Chichén Itzá, may also be associated with round structures used in central Mexico for the the worship of the wind god Ehecatl, known from the contact period Aztec cul

[bobdrake12]

http://members2.club...670/guest.phtml

Mayapan, Mexico



Main Plaza and Temple of Turtles




Observatory



Maypan which means 'Standard of the Maya' is located about 50 kilometers NE of Uxmal and the Puuc Hills region of the Yucatan. It is classified as a Late Post Classic site and is approximately 2 square miles in size. Over 3,600 structures have been identified but only the cermonial or center portion of the city has been restored. Approximately 10,000 people lived there during its heyday from 1250 AD to 1450 AD. The site is immense, but one gets the impression that the individual buildings and layout is smaller, more compact and less attention to detail and workmanship. Almost an imitation of previous Maya grandeur in earlier Classic sites.

[bobdrake12]

http://members2.club...670/guest.phtml

Mayapan, Mexico




El Castillo

[bobdrake12]

http://www.mayanrout...om/mayapan.html

Mayapan



"Castle of Kukulkan"



This archeological site is located 47 Km. southeast of Merida. Despite this is not a place that has had big constructions in its apogee (1200-1450 a.c.) like some other Mayan cities, it offers the opportunity of knowing a city linked to the end of the post classic period, which is considered as the last in the prehispanic development of the Mayas. This city was built as imitation of Chichen Itza, in a period of fights between the different mayan provinces in decadence. It should be said that from the post classic period an epoch of destruction begings at Mayapan structure as a result of the fights before the conquest and then during the conquest due the imposition of the spaniard's culture.

These mythical Mayan ruins remain to remind us of the ancient capital of the triple alliance formed with Uxmal and Chichen Itza. One of the most notable constructions is the "Castle of Kukulkan", made in the image and identical to the Castle of Chichen Itza.

[bobdrake12]

http://www.mayapan.c...sp?arch=mayapan

Mayapan




Mayapán, meaning the Mayan capital or the Mayan flag, is located in the southeastern part of Mérida. Even though the native chronics indicate that Mayapán together with Uxmal and Chichen-Itzá formed a triple alliance, the archeological excavations have proven that the times of splendor of Mayapán came subsequent to those of Chichen-Itzá and Uxmal. Considered as the last Mayan capital, Mayapán was built with the purpose of reconstructing the greatness Chichen-Itzá. Even though the region was occupied since the early Classical Period (300 B.C. - 600 A.C.), it was until the late Classical Period (1250 - 1450 A.C.) that it became an important populated region. As the last Mayan Capital, Mayapán served to control the northeast and north territories of the Peninsula of Yucatán.

Mayapán holds an area of 4 sq. km. having approximately 4,000 structures within. As Chichen-Itzá, the city's structure makes it evident that was controlled through a centralized government. Walls surround the city. Near the walls low structures served as the resident area of the common people. In the nucleus of the zone, the main structures such as The Castle of Kukulcán, the civic, administrative and religious buildings, and the residences of the governing class were constructed. Archeological investigations indicate that around 12,000 people lived within the walls.

Similar to the Chichen-Itzá's architectural style, the temples, atriums and altars in Mayapán were constructed with columns carved with the images of the serpent. Generally, the important buildings surrounded by sidewalks, have wide entrances divided by columns, and an altar at the far end.

The Temple of Kukulcán is the most impressing building in the site. Similar to The Castle in Chichen-Itzá, the temple is a pyramid of 9 bodies reaching an altitude of 15 meters. Throughout the area round complexes known as Carocal or Observatories can be viewed.

When the Kukulcán departed to central México, the Cocom family leaded Mayapán. In the middle of the XV century the settlement was demolished by a civil war. As the Cocom family was defeated, Mayapán was abandoned and its inhabitants migrated to Sotuta. Falling from its splendor roughly before the Spanish conquerors came to the Peninsula, Mayapán is mentioned in both Mayan and Spanish (Fray Diego de Landa - 1560 manuscripts) chronicles.

The decline of Chichen-Itza is related form the development of Mayapan as a central power in Yucatán.

[bobdrake12]

http://www.antiquepr...ico_prints.html




Mound at Mayapan, wood engraving after a drawing by F.Catherwood, published in Incidents of Travel in the Yucatan, 1843. Recent hand colour.

[bobdrake12]

http://www.thenettra...mayapan_in.html






The city of Mayapan was the most important center of the Maya civilization in the period previous to the arrival of the Spanish (1250-1450 a.C.).

Mayapan's about 4 square kilometers and as most of the Mayan sites it consists on one central plaza in which the main buildings are located.
One special feature is that the main buildings are delimitated by a wall, clear hint of the unstable situation of the zone. Due to the quantity of the concentrated buildings and some other details it is now considered that the city had about 12,000 inhabitants.

According to some legends, Mayapan was founded by Kukulcan, which reigned during some time and after that the main leaders formed a joined government.



The native chronicles point that Mayapan, Uxmal and Chichen Itza formed a political alliance known as the Mayapan league.

[bobdrake12]

http://www.windows.u...lcan_venus.html



Kukulcan


The ancient Mayans used the doorways and windows of their buildings as astronomical sightings, especially for the planet Venus.

At Uxmal, all buildings are aligned in the same direction. Surprisingly, Mayans knew the motions of Venus with much accuracy.

Venus, the morning star, was the patron planet of warfare. Many offerings were made to Venus and the Sun.We know from a historian that people would stop up their chimneys so that no light from Venus could enter their houses and cause harm.

[bobdrake12]

http://ancienthistor...2Fkukulcan.html

Kukulcan

The Maya supreme god, to whom the Maya attributed many functions. Not only was he a god of the four elements, he was also a creator god and the god of resurrection and reincarnation. He originated from Toltec myth, where he was a divine hero who taught the Toltecs laws, fishing, healing, the calendar, and agriculture. He emerged from the ocean, and disappeared in it afterwards.

His name means "the feathered serpent", and the Aztec merged him with their Quetzalcoatl. His attributes, each representing one element, are a maize-ear (earth), a fish (water), lizard (fire), and vulture (air). He is the so-called 'God B'.

[bobdrake12]

http://www.innvista....ion/legends.htm

Deities of the Americas

Legends

The World-Wide Flood or Deluge

o In widespread areas of Polynesia are references to a man-destroying flood.
o It occurred in the earliest period of human existence.
o In each case, the principal god was the cause of the flood, and in many cases, the reason was man's disobedience to the god.
o In most cases, there were a few survivors who stayed in various forms of a vessel on the water.
o A similarity between the versions of the Polynesians and those of the Hebrews and the Chaldeans has been noted by writers and missionaries.
o The tradition of the deluge exists with the inhabitants of Central and South America and agrees with the stories of the Polynesians.
o The deluge story seems to be more important to the people of the Andean area than to those of Polynesia.
o The Incas of Peru said that it rained for sixty days and nights and that all created things were drowned.
o In the Americas, the stories stated that a few people survived to leave descendants for a future age

The White, Bearded God (just 2 of about 14 listed)

Quetzalcoatl (Aztecs of Mexico)

o He was a teacher of the arts, the wise law-giver, the virtuous prince, the master builder, and the merciful judge.
o He was a white man with long, dark hair and a flowing beard and was clothed in a strange dress.
o He, along with his helpers, made roads, humanized the people, and civilized them, then disappeared.
o He forbade the sacrifice of either human beings or the lower animals.
o He forbade wars, fighting, robbery, and all forms of violence.
o He came from the east and returned to the east, stating that he and others like him would some day return from that direction.

Kukulcan (Mayas of the Yucatan Peninsula of Mexico)

o He probably appeared at a later date than Itzamna.
o He was one of four brothers, three of whom having died or departed.
o He instructed the people in the arts of peace and had various structures built at Chichen Itza.
o Under his rule, the nation enjoyed peace and prosperity.
o He had a flowing beard and wore a robe.
o He had twenty bearded followers.
o His teachings and activities concur with those of Quetzalcoatl.


Conclusion:

o All persons mentioned in the myths were white, bearded, and covered with long robes.
o They appeared suddenly and mysteriously and disappeared in a supernatural way.
o The people claimed that they did not create their cultural standards, but benevolent foreigners as described above taught them.
o The strangers were supernatural wanderers and messengers of the sun.
o Each taught the useful arts, gave them food plants, initiated their religious rites, and set up their social laws.
o Each was identified with the supreme deity and the creator of the world.
o Each was a twin or one of four brothers at birth and was born of a virgin.
o Each came in conflict with his brother.
o The hero-god, who was the better one, always won in the end.
o He came from the east in the form of a man.
o He still lives there, awaiting the appointed time for his return.
o Each would return at some time, thereby not deserting the people.
o There is evidence that these stories were in existence long before the coming of the white man.
o In a world wholly separated from that which it is customary to call the Old World, the religious evolution of man took place precisely in the same manner as in those surroundings which produced the civilization of Western Europe.

[Lazarus Long]

Many Americans have been brought up with the myth that the Native Americans were uncivilized savages.

This is sadly very true but not an accident. The propaganda mill has been rationalizing la Conquista for five centuries now. The oldest continuously occupied urban center in the Americas is Mexico City. Through rise and fall, conquest and defeat Native Americans have lived in an URBAN environment with civil engineered urban systems in place, from fresh water to sewage, from public transport and thoroughfares to multistoried dwellings.

I suggest that you also read "la Cartas de la Relación." These letters were written by Cortez to relate what he witnessed and why he claims to have done what he did. One does not have to agree with the author to appreciate what he saw.

He was a remarkable expert witness to events and related in great detail and veracity what he experienced. The irony is that his claims for the size and extent of the civilizations he encountered were so disturbing to scholars of Europe because of the magnitude of what he described that few beieved him and they accused him of grossely exaggerating his claims of advancement, civil society, and technological and medical achievement.

The irony modern scholars are facing is that Cortez may have in fact intentionally UNDERSTATED the accomplishments of he tribal peoples he encountered. The politics of imperialism are at the core of the propaganda.

Have you heard of Mayan supposed paranormal knowledge such as their reported time travel ritual (The Mayans believed time is circular. Also the Mayan's reportedly had a time travel ritual that was based on their circular calendar and the power found in love.) and "out of body" experience capabilities?

I have heard some of this mentioned but a lot is now woven into the Huichol traditions that were made famous by the author Carlos Casteñada and his narrative of the Teachings of Don Juan. The Maya are enigmatic because so much of who they were at their height is lost, as you are aware, but a place to sudy some of this may be in the traditions and teachings of the Lacandon Peoples.

They are a tribal group that maintained a relatively high degree of isolation until recently. They are among the Mayan tribe under assault in their traditional lands (Chiapas) by tourism and technology. There is even a group of Women that live apart from men in this region and maintain a pacifist Amazonian tradition. Only a handful of these are left but while I was in Mexico this last time I heard a broadcast news article about them because the outside world had found them still living in their traditional manner and apart from the modern world. In fact they had not seen outsiders in over fifty years. That news clip may have reached the web.

The use of herbs and pyschoactive substances were clearly known to Mesoamericans before the Europeans got there, i.e. Coca in South America and Peyote in Mexico. There were other substance and methods as well such as pulque (fermented maygue) but use of these substances was very strictly regulated, for example public drunkeness by any person under the age of 52 could be punishable by death among the Aztec.

The age 52 was not an accident it was a sacred age because of the number 52. The Solar and Lunar calenders synchronize every 52 years. Spirit or soul travel, as well as shamanic metamorphosis was a consistent theme of the spiritual practices of the priests and spirutual leadership. But this could take on grotesque form in some rituals, such as the donning of the flayed skin of a virgin sacrifice to be worn as as an outer mantle, or covering to give the preists the image of duality, life/death, young/old, male/female, and so on. It is alleged that the spirit of the sacrifice would be assumed with the flayed skin and this would give the priest insight into the spirit realm. It is also at the core of the practice of human sacrifice.

Part of the reason for human sacrifice were the visions generated in the moments before death. These were percieved as a window into the spirit realm again. Also the idea of the quick and clean cut of the heart was that it was supposed to be still beating when shown to the people so that the words of the victim (still conscious for as much as two minutes more in some cases) could be construed to be a communication from the other world.

The point you raise about love as a guide is made complex because they didn't sacrifice out of hate, their religion did it out of a "Sense of Love". I realize this is counterintuitive to us today but it is not so different at its "heart" (please excuse the pun) as the issue of crucifixion for Christians. Love as a theme is synonomous with female deification, the Spring and the rains.

Ironic isn't it then, that Tlaloc could be more demanding of sacrifice then even Huitzlapocli (the war god) often enough for the Aztecs. Aztec warriors were analogous to Samurai, and had inherited a tradition of chivalry and code of honor from the Toltec/Maya that made them "Officers of the Church" (sound familiar?). They were recognized as "Flowery Warriors" we would call them Poet warriors, part of their ritual was the writting of epic poetry and song to describe their missions and deeds in song and dance.

War demanded sacrifice of individuals routinely but the crops were more important and they believed that they were influencing the much needed rains when they sacrificed their most precious possessions and most beautiful children to their gods.