4 replies to this topic

[JvA]

Hello!

This is my first post at Longecity, so I hope I post in the right category. Sorry for any misspelling.

My story:
I've been eating ADHD-medication for 2,5 years. First it was Concerta and then all kinds of methylphenidate versions. Quit using methylphenidate all because of side effects: ticks, constant worryies, overanalyzing stuff, rollercoaster temper (sometimes happy but mostly depressed), cold hands and feet, not able to focus on anything useful etc. After 1 year of trying different methylphenidate drugs I wanted to try dextroamphetamine but got a no, and was instead asked to try Wellbutrin or Modafinil. Tried both and even though I liked the wakefullness of Modafinil, I quickly developed insomnia. Wellbutrin didn't work at all. My doc then asked me to try Valdoxan. I have never in my life slept so good as then, but when my doc tried to reintroduce methylphenidate it lost all it's effect and all old side effects reoccured.

The reason I got a no for the dex is because it's is not a prescription drug in Sweden, which makes the doctor having to send in paper work (a form with him writing three sentences basically...) to the government. I finally managed to get my doc to send in the papers this spring and have been on generic dextroamphetamine (Metamina) since then. I eat 2.5 mg every three hours. Works ok, but developed side effects like headaches after about 1 month, but apart from that, nothing. Wonderful compared to all shit I felt under the influence of methylphenidate. The difference could simply be explained like this:
without dex: no focus and no job.
with dex: an extremely well paid job and ok focus.

Three months later, partly thanks to a friend and threads on Longecity, I told my doc I wanted to add Mirtazapine to fix my headache, because I was quite sure it was caused by disturbed REM and/or other parts of sleep. I now eat 7.5 mg Mirtazapine every day and that fixed my headache. It also fixed my nausea, which I weren't aware of having, until I realised I suddenly felt much better in general and could drive or travel by train without feeling bad.

A part from the meds, I sleep around 7 hours a night during work days and 8-9 hours during weekends. I probably would need 8-9 hours every day to feel rested.

My problem:
In general, I have a hard time to get too sleep, even with the Mirtazapine and with vitamin C to get the stim out of my system. My resting blood pressure is 110-120 / 65-75 and my pulse is around 65. Sometimes, I have an even lower pressure. This causes me to really feel the heart beats when I lie down and try to sleep. Very uncomfortable.

I also feel that my mood isn't the best. In general I'm very neutral. Not really happy, not really sad. I wouldn't say I'm easily irritated at work, but after work I don't have the energy or mood to do anything. I just feel like being alone. It's worse without the stim, because then I don't even have motivation. This causes lots of problems in my private life as I'm never up to the mood of doing anything with friends or with my girlfriend. I even lose focus and mood during sex, it's like it's not worth the effort. This is a great problem.

I also have this problem when I'm falling asleep feeling like I'm falling and losing all muscle control of my body, causing me to think my body is shutting down, giving panic. This started with the Mirtazapine but has now almost disappeared, but still happens from time to time, even sometimes during the day if I'm very sleepy.

I was worried that the Mirtazapine just removed side effects caused by something other than "just" the dextroamphetamine disturbing my sleep. I read a lot about how stims can cause deficiencies in magnesium and other minerals. Because I had a large bonus waiting for me on my next pay check, I decided to use part of it to test my blood, more specifically all minerals, general blood status (red blood cells etc) and fat status. The blood work was sent to [edit: a lab]

Got the reports back yesterday. I've attached a summary of them with this post.

What they show is a large deficiency in copper and phosphorus. My calcium is a bit elevated, and my magnesium is almost too low. My lithium is also normal but in the very low range. Apparently my omega 6 is almost low!? If Ery means red blood cell count, I'm almost low on red blood cells. That would explain my fatigue I experience daily.

My supplements:
Taken in the morning. The ALCAR and Na-R-ALA is taken first without food, and 30 minutes later with food, all the rest.

• 500 mg ALCAR (used to take 250 mg, but the 500 mg seems to give me much more energy)
• 100 mg Na-R-ALA
• Omega 3: 360 mg EPA, 240 mg DPA
• 50 mg Ubiquinol (Q10)
• 10 mg PQQ (just started)
• 150 mg Grape Seed Extract
• 100 mg Pycnogenol
• 400-800 mg Elemental Magnesium (from 4000-8000 mg Magnesium Glycinate/Lysinate Chelate)
• 2400 IU Vitamin D (I take it every other day)

My questions:

• Can stims cause these deficiencies?
• Can my lack of sleep also cause this?
• How do I fix these deficiencies best? Copper seems possible to buy, but phosphorus seems non-existent.
• Should I supplement with lithium?
• Are my supplements ok? I'm planning on adding more stuff in the near future like a AOR multi vitamin.
• Would supplementation of Borage Oil be a good idea to fix the low omega 6?

The specialized nurse who took these tests on me told me dextroamphetamine is known to faster deplete the body of copper, zinc and magnesium. She strongly recommended me to take additional copper, 2-4 mg a day, and 1/2 table spoon of linoleic oil.

Please help! I just want to get my energy back, my moodiness under control and my heart to stop pounding so hard when I go to sleep.

Attached Files

•  blood_status.txt   1.52KB   18 downloads

Edited by caliban, 14 December 2011 - 12:25 AM.
user request

[JvA]

Some additional information
I have since the original post stopped taking vitamin D. As I understand it, the dosage should be safe as it's under the threshold of 4000 IU, but my elevated levels of calcium are probably caused by an excess of this vitamin.

I've also noticed that my blood pressure seems to rise from around 120 to 140-150 after I eat my breakfast and consume the supplements. This comes with a feeling of weakness and heart pounding that lasts for around 2-4 hours. The same seems to happen when I consume my lunch. I'm not certain if this happens with or without the additional supplementation of magnesium.

In my first post, it says that I take around 800-1000 mg of magnesium in the morning. This is incorrect. I divide the dosages over the day. I have however began to question if not my magnesium intake paradoxically is responsible for my elevated blood pressure. The reason for this hypothesis is the fact that I consume 2.5 mg of dextroamphetamine close to the breakfast. Magnesium is known to increase the action of magnesium.

The first months on dextro, without any supplements, the nurse noticed an decrease in blood pressure from my before 135 to a steady 125.

Questions

• Could the magnesium plus dextro cause an elevation of blood pressure, even though the dextro itself seems to cause a decrease?
• What strategy should I use to find out what's causing my side effects?

[baltazar]

Hi there Swede,

I am currently using Metamina, but feel it's fogging up my mind. Quite the opposite to how Ritaline goes about. But yes, Ritalin comes with a bunch of other negative side effects, like mood swings, heavy depressions etc.

Do you have any experience how Adderrall stands out to Metamina?

Kind regards
Neighboring country

[lourdaud]

I felt similar on dexamphetamine.. Have you tried amphetamine? (you should be able to get a prescription, Recip still makes it, so don't believe your doctor if he tells you it's not available).
However! Biggest apathy and anhedonia I've ever had was on mirtazapine! Didn't matter how low the dose was. Try a couple of weeks - a month without it and see. The drug should be out of your system pretty quick but it may take time for 5ht2c receptors to up-regulate.
Have you tried alimemazine (Theralen) for your insomnia??

[baltazar]

Hi Swede,

I do believe 'Metamina' can be "one-of" the best alternatives out there concealingADHD-symptoms. I've recently added following supplements to the medicine-routine: Magnesium, Zinc, Vitamin C, Tyrosine, Lithium, L-Tryptophan. Seems like Zinc had an profound effect! As said i do think Metamina can be a winner - despite a random occurring foggy-mind. Just thinking back to the old days of Ritaline - the time when nothing could be more depressing. Good look Swede - definitively look into supplements and herbs!

Thanks,
Neighboring Country

Edited by baltazar, 07 February 2014 - 05:42 PM.