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What are the longterm benefits and disadvantages of ephedrine and caffeine?

ephedrine

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#1 The Immortalist

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 12:56 AM


I'm taking 30mg of ephedrine HCL and 300mg of caffeine two times a day for it's thermogenic properties. I know all of the readily apparent effects such as increased body temperature, increased blood pressure, increased metabolic rate; but beyond that does it have any other positive or negative effects beyond that? What is the safety of taking an EC stack long term?

#2 The Immortalist

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 09:53 PM

I'm worried about ephedrine's vasoconstriction properties. Does this mean than less blood flow goes to certain parts of your body?

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#3 The Immortalist

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 11:57 PM

The stimulating medicinal effects of ma huang come from two alkaloids, ephedrine and pseudoephedrine, that collect in the nodes of ephedra stems. Ephedrine molecules closely resemble the molecules of epinephrine, or adrenaline, and attach to the same chemical receptors in your body. Ephedrine creates an artificial adrenalin rush, causing the reactions your body would need during a stressful physical emergency.



Read more:

http://www.livestron.../#ixzz1hxv1ViQY


Catecholamine hormones, such as adrenaline or noradrenaline, facilitate immediate physical reactions associated with a preparation for violent muscular action. These include the following:[6]

http://en.wikipedia....flight_response


So if you take ephedrine you are in a constant state of an adrenaline rush? Will these negative effects be apparent? The only effects I am noticing after 2 days of taking it are increased alertness.

#4 The Immortalist

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Posted 30 December 2011 - 12:07 AM

Now I also know all of the other potential negative effects of ephedrine...such as heart attacks, stroke, etc but I concluded from my research that ephedrine is safe if used by people with optimal blood pressure. My blood pressure is 125/86 and optimal is considered 120/80 so I am essentially optimal. I'm monitoring my blood pressure weekly so that if it ever goes into the higher end range I'll stop ephedrine immediately. What are the chances of me suffering a complication from ephedrine use? My family has no history of heart problems or stroke.

#5 Hebbeh

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Posted 30 December 2011 - 01:34 AM

Now I also know all of the other potential negative effects of ephedrine...such as heart attacks, stroke, etc but I concluded from my research that ephedrine is safe if used by people with optimal blood pressure. My blood pressure is 125/86 and optimal is considered 120/80 so I am essentially optimal. I'm monitoring my blood pressure weekly so that if it ever goes into the higher end range I'll stop ephedrine immediately. What are the chances of me suffering a complication from ephedrine use? My family has no history of heart problems or stroke.


120/80 isn't optimal...that is a fallacy. 120/80 is the very top end of what used to be considered "normal" and even that has been revisited as being too high....but regardless it certainly isn't optimal and your 125/86 is certainly worse than that and certainly nothing to write home about. And with regards to ephedrine...it has a huge reputation on adversely affecting the ability and quality of erections (impotence) due to, I believe, it's effect on beta receptors in the penis....here is a very quick search and the first thing that popped up but I know this has been discussed extensively on all the body building sites...ephedrine may possibly make you look good for the beach...but eventually it will be all show and no go.

http://www.midlife-p...om/impotenc.htm

Quote:

There are a number of different meanings for the word impotence or erectile dysfunction. For the purpose of this discussion, impotence shall be defined as "the inability to have or sustain and erection long enough to have meaningful (within reason) sexual intercourse."....
.........
Medications
http://www.longecity.../PicExportError Anti-hypertensive medications such as diuretics and beta blockers
http://www.longecity.../PicExportError Anti-depressants-- both tricyclic antidepressants such as Elavil (imipramine) and the new SSRIs, particularly Prozac and Zoloft
http://www.longecity.../PicExportError Tranquilizers
http://www.longecity.../PicExportError Asthma medications such as ephedrine



#6 The Immortalist

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Posted 30 December 2011 - 03:28 AM

Now I also know all of the other potential negative effects of ephedrine...such as heart attacks, stroke, etc but I concluded from my research that ephedrine is safe if used by people with optimal blood pressure. My blood pressure is 125/86 and optimal is considered 120/80 so I am essentially optimal. I'm monitoring my blood pressure weekly so that if it ever goes into the higher end range I'll stop ephedrine immediately. What are the chances of me suffering a complication from ephedrine use? My family has no history of heart problems or stroke.


120/80 isn't optimal...that is a fallacy. 120/80 is the very top end of what used to be considered "normal" and even that has been revisited as being too high....but regardless it certainly isn't optimal and your 125/86 is certainly worse than that and certainly nothing to write home about.

Source?

And with regards to ephedrine...it has a huge reputation on adversely affecting the ability and quality of erections (impotence) due to, I believe, it's effect on beta receptors in the penis....here is a very quick search and the first thing that popped up but I know this has been discussed extensively on all the body building sites...ephedrine may possibly make you look good for the beach...but eventually it will be all show and no go.


It's to be expected since ephedrine is a vasoconstrictant. It is also similar to epinephrine/norpinephrine hence an artificial adrenalin rush like state thus bloodflow being limited to the extremities of the body. What I am unsure about is whether stopping ephedrine use will immediately reverse these effects. This is why I made this thread to discuss possible lingering effects of Ephedrine/caffein use.


Edited by The Immortalist, 30 December 2011 - 03:29 AM.


#7 Hebbeh

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Posted 30 December 2011 - 04:26 AM

Now I also know all of the other potential negative effects of ephedrine...such as heart attacks, stroke, etc but I concluded from my research that ephedrine is safe if used by people with optimal blood pressure. My blood pressure is 125/86 and optimal is considered 120/80 so I am essentially optimal. I'm monitoring my blood pressure weekly so that if it ever goes into the higher end range I'll stop ephedrine immediately. What are the chances of me suffering a complication from ephedrine use? My family has no history of heart problems or stroke.


120/80 isn't optimal...that is a fallacy. 120/80 is the very top end of what used to be considered "normal" and even that has been revisited as being too high....but regardless it certainly isn't optimal and your 125/86 is certainly worse than that and certainly nothing to write home about.

Source?

And with regards to ephedrine...it has a huge reputation on adversely affecting the ability and quality of erections (impotence) due to, I believe, it's effect on beta receptors in the penis....here is a very quick search and the first thing that popped up but I know this has been discussed extensively on all the body building sites...ephedrine may possibly make you look good for the beach...but eventually it will be all show and no go.


It's to be expected since ephedrine is a vasoconstrictant. It is also similar to epinephrine/norpinephrine hence an artificial adrenalin rush like state thus bloodflow being limited to the extremities of the body. What I am unsure about is whether stopping ephedrine use will immediately reverse these effects. This is why I made this thread to discuss possible lingering effects of Ephedrine/caffein use.


Source: Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia..../Blood_pressure

Quote:

in a study of 100 human subjects with no known history of hypertension, an average blood pressure of 112/64 mmHg was found,[7] which are currently classified as desirable or "normal" values.


120/80 is considerd the start of prehypertension....hardly ideal http://en.wikipedia....Prehypertension
Quote:

Prehypertension is considered to be blood pressure readings with a systolic pressure from 120 to 139 mm Hg or a diastolic pressure from 80 to 89 mm Hg.


And with regards to ephedrine and impotence, I'm pretty sure that it has more to do with the effect on beta receptors in the penis than vasoconstriction.

#8 Lufega

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Posted 30 December 2011 - 04:34 AM

I've been using ephedrine/caffeine for two months now so maybe I can contribute something. First, I also think it's safe if used responsibly. I only take a single dose per day to be safe and this I find very stimulating. Since ephedrine increases thermogenesis, you don't want to go jogging at high noon. That one is obvious. But some people that died from using this were doing just that. You also don't want to mix it with other stimulants (guarana, clenbuterol, yohimbe, etc.). I made the mistake of taking yohimbe one day and it was a terrible, terrible idea.

The increase in norephinephrine from using ephedrine might help promote Long term potentiation. Ephe. also seems to deplete vitamin C. One study says that Vit C. is neuroprotective against amphetamines. Another says that Vit C. can potentiate the cardiotoxic effects of ephe. Vit C. helps norephinephrine bind to its receptor more strongly and enhance the vasocontriction effect. This doesn't appear to be selective so the more norepi. you have, the more vitamin C is used up to enhance its effect. Probably not wise to use extra vit. c at the same time as ephe. But every now and then, I like to skip a day and takes a couple grams of vit. c just in case.

Ephedrine can also lower potassium levels, so you want to watch out for that. I also make sure to get at least 400 mg Magnesium everyday to play it safe. The weight loss effect didn't really kick in for me until after the first month. The stimulant effect was supposed to wean by now but I still feel it like the first day. Every now and then I take 10 mg forskolin to potentiate the effect. It really makes a difference but I worry about too much vasoconstriction so I don't do this everyday.

#9 The Immortalist

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Posted 30 December 2011 - 06:26 AM

Caffeine decreases blood flow to the brain?

This news article scares the f*ck out of me http://www.dailymail...feine-mind.html

When it comes to the effect of caffeine and alcohol, the good news is that once you stop taking them, the brain recovers

Recover meaning the damage is reversed or recover meaning the damage is still there except your condition improves for some reason?
Well they didn't show a caffeine only scan so it could have been the nicotine for all we know.

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/2122148
http://deepblue.lib....9/1/0000776.pdf

Positron emission tomography (PET) was used to quantify the effect of caffeine on whole brain and regional cerebral blood flow (CBF) in humans. A mean dose of 250 mg of caffeine produced approximately a 30% decrease in whole brain CBF; regional differences in caffeine effect were not observed.


So is my EC stack going to fuck up my brain to a degree? Does this decreased blood flow to the brain have any long lasting implications? Stopping the EC stack after I'm done dieting should reverse these effects right?

So this is what it comes down to; decreased blood flow to the brain and penis in return for a higher metabolic rate? Why can't they make supplements that increase metabolic rate without side effects?

Edited by The Immortalist, 30 December 2011 - 06:45 AM.


#10 Hebbeh

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Posted 30 December 2011 - 12:37 PM

Caffeine decreases blood flow to the brain?

This news article scares the f*ck out of me http://www.dailymail...feine-mind.html



When it comes to the effect of caffeine and alcohol, the good news is that once you stop taking them, the brain recovers

Recover meaning the damage is reversed or recover meaning the damage is still there except your condition improves for some reason?
Well they didn't show a caffeine only scan so it could have been the nicotine for all we know.

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/2122148
http://deepblue.lib....9/1/0000776.pdf

Positron emission tomography (PET) was used to quantify the effect of caffeine on whole brain and regional cerebral blood flow (CBF) in humans. A mean dose of 250 mg of caffeine produced approximately a 30% decrease in whole brain CBF; regional differences in caffeine effect were not observed.


So is my EC stack going to fuck up my brain to a degree? Does this decreased blood flow to the brain have any long lasting implications? Stopping the EC stack after I'm done dieting should reverse these effects right?

So this is what it comes down to; decreased blood flow to the brain and penis in return for a higher metabolic rate? Why can't they make supplements that increase metabolic rate without side effects?


DNP

You could try to mitigate the sides with cialis and ginkgo biloba.

Edited by Hebbeh, 30 December 2011 - 01:27 PM.


#11 The Immortalist

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Posted 30 December 2011 - 07:54 PM

DNP


http://en.wikipedia....4-Dinitrophenol

Sounds risky. What do you think of this substance?

#12 Hebbeh

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Posted 30 December 2011 - 08:07 PM

Risky. Supposedly very effective though. I know it was very popular on the body building sites in years gone by. Has been used for weight loss for at least 70 or 80 years. I wouldn't use it though...was tongue in check mainly. I did use ephedrine about 10 years ago when it was popular. From my experience, the biggest benefit was as a anorectic or appetite suppressant...I believe that is where most of the effect comes from.

#13 The Immortalist

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Posted 30 December 2011 - 08:16 PM

You could try to mitigate the sides with cialis and ginkgo biloba.


Wouldn't ginko interfere with ephedrine? Ginko inhibits monoamine oxidase and ephedrine's main mode of action is by increasing the activity of noradrenaline at the post-synaptic α- and β-receptors.

Edited by The Immortalist, 30 December 2011 - 08:16 PM.


#14 Hebbeh

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Posted 31 December 2011 - 12:26 AM

You could try to mitigate the sides with cialis and ginkgo biloba.


Wouldn't ginko interfere with ephedrine? Ginko inhibits monoamine oxidase and ephedrine's main mode of action is by increasing the activity of noradrenaline at the post-synaptic α- and β-receptors.


Actually, I would expect a MAOI to potentiate ephedrine by acting as a noradrenaline reuptake inhibitor....however I believe gingko is a very weak MAOI and would have a negligible effect....but you won't know for sure without dosing and playing with it.

#15 shaggy

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Posted 31 December 2011 - 08:08 PM

Now I also know all of the other potential negative effects of ephedrine...such as heart attacks, stroke, etc but I concluded from my research that ephedrine is safe if used by people with optimal blood pressure. My blood pressure is 125/86 and optimal is considered 120/80 so I am essentially optimal. I'm monitoring my blood pressure weekly so that if it ever goes into the higher end range I'll stop ephedrine immediately. What are the chances of me suffering a complication from ephedrine use? My family has no history of heart problems or stroke.


120/80 isn't optimal...that is a fallacy. 120/80 is the very top end of what used to be considered "normal" and even that has been revisited as being too high....but regardless it certainly isn't optimal and your 125/86 is certainly worse than that and certainly nothing to write home about.

Source?

And with regards to ephedrine...it has a huge reputation on adversely affecting the ability and quality of erections (impotence) due to, I believe, it's effect on beta receptors in the penis....here is a very quick search and the first thing that popped up but I know this has been discussed extensively on all the body building sites...ephedrine may possibly make you look good for the beach...but eventually it will be all show and no go.


It's to be expected since ephedrine is a vasoconstrictant. It is also similar to epinephrine/norpinephrine hence an artificial adrenalin rush like state thus bloodflow being limited to the extremities of the body. What I am unsure about is whether stopping ephedrine use will immediately reverse these effects. This is why I made this thread to discuss possible lingering effects of Ephedrine/caffein use.


Source: Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia..../Blood_pressure

Quote:

in a study of 100 human subjects with no known history of hypertension, an average blood pressure of 112/64 mmHg was found,[7] which are currently classified as desirable or "normal" values.


120/80 is considerd the start of prehypertension....hardly ideal http://en.wikipedia....Prehypertension
Quote:

Prehypertension is considered to be blood pressure readings with a systolic pressure from 120 to 139 mm Hg or a diastolic pressure from 80 to 89 mm Hg.


And with regards to ephedrine and impotence, I'm pretty sure that it has more to do with the effect on beta receptors in the penis than vasoconstriction.


I certainly wouldn't rely on wikipedia to educate me on any topic....

From what I've read recently blood pressure as low as you recommend as optimal is highly dubious.

http://journals.lww....ntrol_in.1.aspx

I will try and dig out more studies to prove my point, but from what I remember reading drug companies seem to be pushing these new target BP's for their own benefit. (Many more drugs will be dispensed)

#16 Hebbeh

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Posted 31 December 2011 - 08:41 PM

Now I also know all of the other potential negative effects of ephedrine...such as heart attacks, stroke, etc but I concluded from my research that ephedrine is safe if used by people with optimal blood pressure. My blood pressure is 125/86 and optimal is considered 120/80 so I am essentially optimal. I'm monitoring my blood pressure weekly so that if it ever goes into the higher end range I'll stop ephedrine immediately. What are the chances of me suffering a complication from ephedrine use? My family has no history of heart problems or stroke.


120/80 isn't optimal...that is a fallacy. 120/80 is the very top end of what used to be considered "normal" and even that has been revisited as being too high....but regardless it certainly isn't optimal and your 125/86 is certainly worse than that and certainly nothing to write home about.

Source?

And with regards to ephedrine...it has a huge reputation on adversely affecting the ability and quality of erections (impotence) due to, I believe, it's effect on beta receptors in the penis....here is a very quick search and the first thing that popped up but I know this has been discussed extensively on all the body building sites...ephedrine may possibly make you look good for the beach...but eventually it will be all show and no go.


It's to be expected since ephedrine is a vasoconstrictant. It is also similar to epinephrine/norpinephrine hence an artificial adrenalin rush like state thus bloodflow being limited to the extremities of the body. What I am unsure about is whether stopping ephedrine use will immediately reverse these effects. This is why I made this thread to discuss possible lingering effects of Ephedrine/caffein use.


Source: Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia..../Blood_pressure

Quote:

in a study of 100 human subjects with no known history of hypertension, an average blood pressure of 112/64 mmHg was found,[7] which are currently classified as desirable or "normal" values.


120/80 is considerd the start of prehypertension....hardly ideal http://en.wikipedia....Prehypertension
Quote:

Prehypertension is considered to be blood pressure readings with a systolic pressure from 120 to 139 mm Hg or a diastolic pressure from 80 to 89 mm Hg.


And with regards to ephedrine and impotence, I'm pretty sure that it has more to do with the effect on beta receptors in the penis than vasoconstriction.


I certainly wouldn't rely on wikipedia to educate me on any topic....

From what I've read recently blood pressure as low as you recommend as optimal is highly dubious.

http://journals.lww....ntrol_in.1.aspx

I will try and dig out more studies to prove my point, but from what I remember reading drug companies seem to be pushing these new target BP's for their own benefit. (Many more drugs will be dispensed)



I understand your point with Wikipedia....however, I've read many places that the BP ranges have all been revisited in recent years....and wiki was just an easy reference...and besides, wiki usually is reliable info for quick and easy checks. And your reference means nothing....it referenced nothing with respect to current BP ranges in healthy people...only mentioned target ranges for sick people...and that isn't at all what we are talking about...sick people are always going to be sick....but normal ranges have definitely been lowered for healthy people which is what the wiki reference was about....which has nothing to do with drug companies.

edit: and at 54, my BP consistently runs around 115/70 or better which I guess you would consider sub-optimal? And I take no medication of any kind....but am very fit.

2nd edit: wanted to add...it is my opinion that as an individual, I desire to get my BP (and fitness level) as close as possible (without medication) to what I may have had when I was much younger...or even as a kid...would you not agree that would be optimal? And I doubt most active, healthy, athletic kids have BP at 120/80 or above..I'm pretty sure most would have BP lower than that.

Edited by Hebbeh, 31 December 2011 - 09:31 PM.


#17 The Immortalist

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Posted 01 January 2012 - 05:14 AM

2nd edit: wanted to add...it is my opinion that as an individual, I desire to get my BP (and fitness level) as close as possible (without medication) to what I may have had when I was much younger...or even as a kid...would you not agree that would be optimal? And I doubt most active, healthy, athletic kids have BP at 120/80 or above..I'm pretty sure most would have BP lower than that.


Well I am young (18) and my blood pressure is 125/86 and I exercise 5 days a week. But it may have to do with me being "overweight" as I have a lot of muscle mass and extra fat. I'm now about 200lbs at exactly 6 feet tall, about 20% bodyfat. 3 months ago when I finished my bulk I was 220lbs. I'll post my blood pressure readings here when I'm finished dieting, stop taking ephedrine and look ripped and shredded at lower than 6% body fat.

Edited by The Immortalist, 01 January 2012 - 05:23 AM.


#18 Hebbeh

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Posted 01 January 2012 - 05:14 PM

2nd edit: wanted to add...it is my opinion that as an individual, I desire to get my BP (and fitness level) as close as possible (without medication) to what I may have had when I was much younger...or even as a kid...would you not agree that would be optimal? And I doubt most active, healthy, athletic kids have BP at 120/80 or above..I'm pretty sure most would have BP lower than that.


Well I am young (18) and my blood pressure is 125/86 and I exercise 5 days a week. But it may have to do with me being "overweight" as I have a lot of muscle mass and extra fat. I'm now about 200lbs at exactly 6 feet tall, about 20% bodyfat. 3 months ago when I finished my bulk I was 220lbs. I'll post my blood pressure readings here when I'm finished dieting, stop taking ephedrine and look ripped and shredded at lower than 6% body fat.


Yes, it has a lot to do with body fat levels and 20% body fat for a male at any age is not healthy...fat on the outside, fat on the inside. I maintain my BF% at 10% or less....often at 7-8% and I measure that with both calipers and a Tanita scale and they both track pretty consistently. If you're carrying 20% BF, most undoubtedly your blood vessels are developing plaque...and that is the price to pay for eating way beyond maintenance (which you have to be doing to be at that kind of BF%). And almost everybody that ends up at the doctor with high blood pressure are there because they are fat and the first thing the doc will try to do is get them on a diet and to lose weight and exercise...so yes the excess weight has a lot to do with it...as excess weight is the number one health risk. (Genetics does play a role and being cursed with bad genetics is another issue). I carry decent muscle mass and more than hold my own in the gym but don’t use that as an excuse to bulk up with fat...eating at that much over maintenance isn't necessary. And besides, fitness isn't all about how much iron you can move...it's also about how fast you can run 5k after moving that iron...if you want to fit your namesake...you better have the whole and complete package and just moving iron isn't the end all be all. 20% BF is entering the couch potato range whether you’re fit or not....and that is where this 120/80 nonsense came from...if you do the research you will find that back in the day, the original 120/80 averages were based on the average adult couch potato that hadn't yet displayed obvious high blood pressure symptoms. And they attempted to get people with obvious high blood pressure symptoms back to 120/80 (with medication if necessary) which is the highest range before symptoms start to develop...and over time, people started to think 120/80 was ideal...and a myth was born...and now in more recent years the medical community has tried to educate that the really healthy people have blood pressure much lower than 120/80 and as such, 120/80 shouldn't be the target range for the healthy...you should strive for better than "just good enough"....especially if you plan on being around for a long time and being healthy for the entire journey...as your namesake implies.

#19 blood

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 05:36 AM

[I maintain my BF% at 10% or less....often at 7-8% and I measure that with both calipers and a Tanita scale and they both track pretty consistently.


What strategies, lifestyle habits do you employ to keep your body fat at that level?

#20 Hebbeh

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 11:51 AM

[I maintain my BF% at 10% or less....often at 7-8% and I measure that with both calipers and a Tanita scale and they both track pretty consistently.


What strategies, lifestyle habits do you employ to keep your body fat at that level?


Pretty low tech and simple. Disciplined diet strictly and consistently controlled in calorie intake and no junk calories except on rare occasion. And consistent exercise program consisting of both resistance and aerobic components along with an active lifestyle. Time tested old school methods that should work for most.

#21 blood

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 04:49 AM

[I maintain my BF% at 10% or less....often at 7-8% and I measure that with both calipers and a Tanita scale and they both track pretty consistently.


What strategies, lifestyle habits do you employ to keep your body fat at that level?


Pretty low tech and simple. Disciplined diet strictly and consistently controlled in calorie intake and no junk calories except on rare occasion. And consistent exercise program consisting of both resistance and aerobic components along with an active lifestyle. Time tested old school methods that should work for most.


Do you eat much fat (olive oil, nuts, etc)?
Do you eat meat?

#22 Hebbeh

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 12:08 PM

[I maintain my BF% at 10% or less....often at 7-8% and I measure that with both calipers and a Tanita scale and they both track pretty consistently.


What strategies, lifestyle habits do you employ to keep your body fat at that level?


Pretty low tech and simple. Disciplined diet strictly and consistently controlled in calorie intake and no junk calories except on rare occasion. And consistent exercise program consisting of both resistance and aerobic components along with an active lifestyle. Time tested old school methods that should work for most.


Do you eat much fat (olive oil, nuts, etc)?
Do you eat meat?


No, I'm not afraid of fat and yes, I eat some olive oil (in addition to C60/EVOO) and some nuts. I eat some meat but don't have the time to cook a lot due to a busy schedule and therefore frequently eat fat free dairy (cottage cheese or greek yogurt) or eggs for protein as it's quick,easy, and nutritious. I tend to eat moderate carb and get most of my carbs from vegetables and fruit snacks. As a general rule of thumb, I believe in the old time tested rule "all things in moderation". The important thing is calorie or energy intake versus energy burned. It's not so much what you eat as how much you eat as long as your diet covers the necessary nutritional bases. I do use supplements to help achieve that. I try to eat at maintenance or lean towards a small deficit most of the time and monitor this by weighing every morning, tracking my body fat %, matching my eating to my activity level, and knowing my body and adjusting diet to results. Lifestyle by habit and knowing how your individual body works along with flexibility in adjusting to results definitely is key.
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#23 Hebbeh

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 02:52 PM

I should add that my dietary habits do revolve around ample lean protein above all else to fuel the active lifestyle and do frequently eat fish on the go in the form of tins of sardines in Louisiana hot sauce (a favorite) and foil packets of salmon and occasionally tuna. The perfect snack on the go combined with a piece of fruit and sometimes a small hand full of nuts.

#24 blood

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 04:12 AM

No, I'm not afraid of fat and yes, I eat some olive oil (in addition to C60/EVOO) and some nuts. I eat some meat but don't have the time to cook a lot due to a busy schedule and therefore frequently eat fat free dairy (cottage cheese or greek yogurt) or eggs for protein as it's quick,easy, and nutritious. I tend to eat moderate carb and get most of my carbs from vegetables and fruit snacks. As a general rule of thumb, I believe in the old time tested rule "all things in moderation". The important thing is calorie or energy intake versus energy burned. It's not so much what you eat as how much you eat as long as your diet covers the necessary nutritional bases. I do use supplements to help achieve that. I try to eat at maintenance or lean towards a small deficit most of the time and monitor this by weighing every morning, tracking my body fat %, matching my eating to my activity level, and knowing my body and adjusting diet to results. Lifestyle by habit and knowing how your individual body works along with flexibility in adjusting to results definitely is key.


Thank you for your comments.

My diet doesn't sound too dis-similar to yours.

I'm not eating much - breakfast, dinner, and one small snack.

I've been losing weight at around 0.5 kg/ week for the past several months.

So far, my body fat (as measured by a fitbit aria wifi scales) is holding steady or declining. It's still pretty high, though - it only recently dropped under 17%.

My exercise consists of walking to and from work each day (around 50 min/ day of brisk walking) and a 50 min slow jog twice a week. I don't do any weight lifting/ resistance training.

I asked about the meat because I don't eat much. Sometimes I wonder if I could benefit from eating a bit more.

#25 Hebbeh

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 11:55 AM

No, I'm not afraid of fat and yes, I eat some olive oil (in addition to C60/EVOO) and some nuts. I eat some meat but don't have the time to cook a lot due to a busy schedule and therefore frequently eat fat free dairy (cottage cheese or greek yogurt) or eggs for protein as it's quick,easy, and nutritious. I tend to eat moderate carb and get most of my carbs from vegetables and fruit snacks. As a general rule of thumb, I believe in the old time tested rule "all things in moderation". The important thing is calorie or energy intake versus energy burned. It's not so much what you eat as how much you eat as long as your diet covers the necessary nutritional bases. I do use supplements to help achieve that. I try to eat at maintenance or lean towards a small deficit most of the time and monitor this by weighing every morning, tracking my body fat %, matching my eating to my activity level, and knowing my body and adjusting diet to results. Lifestyle by habit and knowing how your individual body works along with flexibility in adjusting to results definitely is key.


Thank you for your comments.

My diet doesn't sound too dis-similar to yours.

I'm not eating much - breakfast, dinner, and one small snack.

I've been losing weight at around 0.5 kg/ week for the past several months.

So far, my body fat (as measured by a fitbit aria wifi scales) is holding steady or declining. It's still pretty high, though - it only recently dropped under 17%.

My exercise consists of walking to and from work each day (around 50 min/ day of brisk walking) and a 50 min slow jog twice a week. I don't do any weight lifting/ resistance training.

I asked about the meat because I don't eat much. Sometimes I wonder if I could benefit from eating a bit more.


You might want to add in some resistance exercise. It could be as basic as adding some pushups, pullups, dips, squats, crunches, or planks. These can all be done anywhere anytime without weights. Then make sure you get plenty of lean protein. I lean towards making sure to get protein and cut back on carbs and fats if necessary. This will help insure you are losing fat and not lean mass...and help keep your metabolism running on high (resistance exercise and protein). Sounds like you are making good progress though. A pound per week is a good steady and healthy rate to get in shape.
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#26 blood

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 01:22 PM

No, I'm not afraid of fat and yes, I eat some olive oil (in addition to C60/EVOO) and some nuts. I eat some meat but don't have the time to cook a lot due to a busy schedule and therefore frequently eat fat free dairy (cottage cheese or greek yogurt) or eggs for protein as it's quick,easy, and nutritious. I tend to eat moderate carb and get most of my carbs from vegetables and fruit snacks. As a general rule of thumb, I believe in the old time tested rule "all things in moderation". The important thing is calorie or energy intake versus energy burned. It's not so much what you eat as how much you eat as long as your diet covers the necessary nutritional bases. I do use supplements to help achieve that. I try to eat at maintenance or lean towards a small deficit most of the time and monitor this by weighing every morning, tracking my body fat %, matching my eating to my activity level, and knowing my body and adjusting diet to results. Lifestyle by habit and knowing how your individual body works along with flexibility in adjusting to results definitely is key.


Thank you for your comments.

My diet doesn't sound too dis-similar to yours.

I'm not eating much - breakfast, dinner, and one small snack.

I've been losing weight at around 0.5 kg/ week for the past several months.

So far, my body fat (as measured by a fitbit aria wifi scales) is holding steady or declining. It's still pretty high, though - it only recently dropped under 17%.

My exercise consists of walking to and from work each day (around 50 min/ day of brisk walking) and a 50 min slow jog twice a week. I don't do any weight lifting/ resistance training.

I asked about the meat because I don't eat much. Sometimes I wonder if I could benefit from eating a bit more.


You might want to add in some resistance exercise. It could be as basic as adding some pushups, pullups, dips, squats, crunches, or planks. These can all be done anywhere anytime without weights. Then make sure you get plenty of lean protein. I lean towards making sure to get protein and cut back on carbs and fats if necessary. This will help insure you are losing fat and not lean mass...and help keep your metabolism running on high (resistance exercise and protein). Sounds like you are making good progress though. A pound per week is a good steady and healthy rate to get in shape.


I've picked up some whey protein, and kangaroo steaks (supposedly very lean). I just need to research/learn how to cook the meat without creating too many AGEs/ALEs.

As for resistance exercise, that's something I know I need to be doing... but don't. :)

I'll give the pushups and pullups a try.



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#27 Ubiyca

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Posted 29 January 2014 - 05:14 AM

So what's the consensus on long-term ephedrine/caffeine usage? (used at say.. 4-5 times a week, at under 30mg eph / 200mg caff per day?





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