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Vitamin A (should it be taken at all) to Vitamin D Ratio, whats correct?

vitamin a vitamin d

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#1 howtodisappear

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 09:41 AM


Hi guys,

I have been reading a lot of the Vitamin A and D threads, and I am trying to get a clearer answer on what is the correct way to take these two.

I currently taken Jarrows Vit D 2000 UI every day and NOW Vit A 10 000 UI once a week, but reading the threads, I am not sure if I should be taking Vitamin A more or not at all or even whats a good dosage. Except for Vit D i have been aiming at RDA for most of my supplements.

Is there a consensus on whats the correct approach?

I did a ratio of 6 D:1 A but in another thread, it said the the Vitamin A should be higher than the D.

Cheers
HTDC

#2 Tomas E

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 10:28 AM

I would lower the vitamin A intake and take beta-carotene insted as it converts to A vitamin. Beta-carotene is a safe source of vitamin A. Due to the regulated conversion of beta-carotene into vitamin A, overconsumption does not produce hypervitaminosis A.

BUT same goes for Beta-carotene = Excessive intakes of beta-carotene may cause carotenodermia, which manifests itself in a yellowish tint of the skin, mainly in the palms of the hands and soles of the feet.

I love carrot juice, though not sure what the exact amount would be to take in of Vitamin A.

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#3 nowayout

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 03:36 PM

Didn't supplementary intake of beta carotene increase cancer in studies back in the 90s?

#4 Tomas E

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 05:51 PM

Ive even read somewhere that it might even promote insted of help cancer, in cancer patients, but then again I need to find this studie, but if carotene would be so bad why is both Vimmortal and Ortho core having them ???

#5 Tomas E

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 06:05 PM

Found it here http://www.cancer.gov/newscenter/qa/2003/atbcfollowupqa

But what I found is that they took in 20mg of beta-carotene. Dont unfortunally know the conversion from beta-carotene to A-vitamin.

#6 howtodisappear

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 02:04 AM

The form I am taking is from Fish liver oil. So then I shouldn't take this?

But even if I take an acceptable form there seems to be conflicting ideas about what the ratio to Vitamin D should be.

#7 Lufega

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 04:15 AM

I wouldn't call beta carotene a better choice. The inefficient conversion only tells you that we can't depend on it for all of our vitamin A needs. The fact that our bodies even have this redundant alternate pathway tells you of just how important vitamin A is. I think you should estimate how much you're already getting from your current diet and go from there. You also need vitamin K to keep everything balanced since vitamin A/D activate vitamin K dependent enzymes and it gets used up pretty fast.

Vitamin A also gets used up pretty fast in some inflammatory conditions like COPD. I use 25,000 IU 3 times a week with vit D/K/E.

#8 nameless

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 05:09 AM

I would just measure dietary intakes and make sure you get enough that way.

I'm not sure if it's 100% accurate, but you can also get your vit A levels tested via blood. I was curious about the whole beta carotene to A conversion thing a while ago, and got my serum levels tested. My A levels were perfectly fine from diet + one MultiBasics daily -- probably more than fine... don't think the MultiBasics was even needed.

#9 niner

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 05:39 AM

There was a minor hubbub in the British press a few years ago over the surprisingly high fraction of people who are poor converters of beta carotene to A. It might have been a British thing; I don't know if the results are general. And there's that whole carotenoid/cancer relation. I once had my vitamin A level measured. It was ordered by a gastroenterologist who used it to see if I had any malabsorption issues. Apparently I didn't, as my level was normal.

#10 howtodisappear

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 02:27 PM

I wouldn't call beta carotene a better choice. The inefficient conversion only tells you that we can't depend on it for all of our vitamin A needs. The fact that our bodies even have this redundant alternate pathway tells you of just how important vitamin A is. I think you should estimate how much you're already getting from your current diet and go from there. You also need vitamin K to keep everything balanced since vitamin A/D activate vitamin K dependent enzymes and it gets used up pretty fast.

Vitamin A also gets used up pretty fast in some inflammatory conditions like COPD. I use 25,000 IU 3 times a week with vit D/K/E.

I would just measure dietary intakes and make sure you get enough that way.

I'm not sure if it's 100% accurate, but you can also get your vit A levels tested via blood. I was curious about the whole beta carotene to A conversion thing a while ago, and got my serum levels tested. My A levels were perfectly fine from diet + one MultiBasics daily -- probably more than fine... don't think the MultiBasics was even needed.


So I guess, I shouldn't worry about the ratio to Vitamin D and just make sure I am getting RDI?

I am taking the LEF Vit K product and a mixed Vit E supplment already.

Just wanted to be sure about the correct amounts, this is my first regimen, and I am trying to be cautious rather than gung-ho. I am planning in getting some blood tests this week to find out my levels.

#11 nowayout

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 03:54 PM

Found it here http://www.cancer.gov/newscenter/qa/2003/atbcfollowupqa

But what I found is that they took in 20mg of beta-carotene. Dont unfortunally know the conversion from beta-carotene to A-vitamin.


I would certainly avoid all A vitamin supplementation. In a minimally healthy diet, you get plenty already. Just to make it easier to discuss:

Alpha-Tocopherol, Beta-Carotene Cancer Prevention (ATBC) Trial

In order to determine the long-term effects from vitamin supplements in smokers, ATBC researchers followed the participants for an additional eight years after the trial ended. The findings from this follow-up study, published in the July 23, 2003 issue of the Journal of the American Medical Association, as well as the initial trial results, are summarized in this fact sheet.
1. What was the purpose and design of the Alpha-Tocopherol, Beta-Carotene Cancer Prevention (ATBC) Trial?
The Alpha-Tocopherol, Beta-Carotene Cancer Prevention (ATBC) Trial was a cancer prevention trial conducted by the U.S. National Cancer Institute (NCI) and the National Public Health Institute of Finland from 1985 to 1993. The purpose of the study was to determine whether certain vitamin supplements would prevent lung cancer and other cancers in a group of 29,133 male smokers in Finland. The 50- to 69-year-old participants took a pill daily for five to eight years that contained one of the following: 50 milligrams (mg) alpha-tocopherol (a form of vitamin E), 20 mg of beta-carotene (a precursor of vitamin A), both, or a placebo (inactive pill that looked like the vitamin).
2. What were the principal findings?
• ATBC researchers reported that men who took beta-carotene had an 18 percent increased incidence of lung cancers and an 8 percent increased overall mortality. Vitamin E had no effect on lung cancer incidence or overall mortality. The men taking both supplements had outcomes similar to those taking beta-carotene alone (New England Journal of Medicine 1994;330:1029).
The adverse effects of beta-carotene appeared stronger in men with a relatively modest alcohol intake (more than 11 grams per day; 15 grams of alcohol is equivalent to one drink) and in those smoking at least 20 cigarettes daily (Journal of the National Cancer Institute1996;88:1560).
• Participants taking vitamin E had 32 percent fewer cases of prostate cancer and 41 percent fewer deaths from prostate cancer. Death from hemorrhagic stroke (a deficit of blood to the brain due to the rupture of a blood vessel) was also increased by 50 percent in men taking alpha-tocopherol supplements; the increase occurred primarily among men with hypertension. (Journal of the National Cancer Institute 1998;90:440 and Arterioscler Thromb Vasc Biol 2000;20:230).
3. What were the principal findings of the post-trial follow-up?
The participants stopped taking the vitamin supplements in April 1993. However, in order to evaluate the long-term effects of the vitamins on cancer incidence, and overall and cause-specific mortality, they were followed after the trial ended using data from the national registries in Finland. The researchers acquired additional data for cancer incidence and mortality related to specific causes through April 1999 (six years beyond the end of the trial), and for total mortality through April 2001 (eight years beyond the end of the trial). The principal findings from the post-trial follow-up are listed below (Journal of American Medical Association 2003;290:476).
In the eight-year follow-up period, the participants taking beta-carotene experienced 7 percent higher overall mortality than men on the placebo. However, this elevation was largely limited to the first four to six years of follow-up; during the last two years, the overall mortality rates were comparable to participants who did not receive beta-carotene.
• In the beta-carotene group, the higher mortality during the trial was due to cardiovascular disease and lung cancer. In contrast, the higher mortality during the post-intervention period was due to cardiovascular disease alone.
The increased risks for lung cancer that occurred in participants supplemented with beta-carotene began to fall soon after the men stopped taking the vitamin, and were similar to the placebo group within four years.
• The lower prostate cancer incidence rates in participants taking alpha-tocopherol supplements during the trial returned toward normal soon after the trial ended, but remained below the placebo group rates throughout the six-year post-intervention period.
4. What were the conclusions and recommendations from the post-trial follow-up?(Journal of American Medical Association 2003;290:476)
The adverse effects from beta-carotene and the beneficial effects from supplementation with alpha-tocopherol (vitamin E) largely disappeared during the post-trial follow-up period.
• The findings indicate a symmetry in the time course during and after the trial. That is, the time it took for the elevated lung cancer rates and lower prostate cancer rates to occur was similar to the time for these adverse and beneficial effects to disappear.
• There were no additional beneficial late effects on cancer or mortality observed after the trial ended.
• The results of both the trial and post-trial follow-up of the ATBC Study, in conjunction with results from the CARET Study (beta-Carotene and Retinol Efficacy Trial) completed in 1996, continue to support the recommendation that beta-carotene supplementation should be avoided by smokers. The possible preventive effects of alpha-tocopherol on prostate cancer require confirmation in other ongoing trials.
• Continued follow-up of the participants will provide unique and valuable information on the duration of trial effects and potential late effects of intervention with these antioxidant vitamins. Further follow-up will also contribute to our understanding of the biological mechanisms through which such hemoprevention agents affect carcinogenesis and human cancer risk.



#12 hav

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 04:18 PM

Vitamin A is a component of the AREDS formulation for ocular health designed to minimize or delay the onset of congenital macular degeneration. I started taking the Bausch & Lomb formulation Preservision about 5 years ago on the advise of my opthamologist after my 90 year-old dad developed the disease. When I started taking Vimortal last year, which also includes plenty of Vitamin A, I switched to an alternate AREDS2 Preservision formulation that leaves out the Vitamin A and substitutes Lutein and Zeaxanthin instead.

Howard

Edited by hav, 12 February 2012 - 04:30 PM.


#13 Tomas E

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 11:37 PM

Thanks guys for the update, now I need to find a multi vitamin supplement without the vitamin A, or are Ortho-core and Vimmortal still ok ??

#14 PhaQ

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 04:16 AM

I think some of you are referring to beta-carotene as vitamin A, which it is not.
Vitamin A is good stuff. I make sure to take plenty, along with plenty of D. Its much harder to get hypervitaminosis A if you take it with D. That's why cod liver oil is so good. Beta-carotene only seems to help in small amounts. I stopped taking it ages ago.
Howtodisappear, keep slurping down that cod liver oil. Its wonderful stuff.

#15 Tomas E

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 07:54 AM

I think some of you are referring to beta-carotene as vitamin A, which it is not.
Vitamin A is good stuff. I make sure to take plenty, along with plenty of D. Its much harder to get hypervitaminosis A if you take it with D. That's why cod liver oil is so good. Beta-carotene only seems to help in small amounts. I stopped taking it ages ago.
Howtodisappear, keep slurping down that cod liver oil. Its wonderful stuff.



Sounds great, as Im already taking my fish oil and plenty of D vitamin soon im gonna try out the krill oil as soon as it arrives, so hopefully I wont take harm from the A-vitamin but after reading all posts and the study im abit worried about the vitamin A.

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#16 gt190

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 07:01 PM

my level of vit a was low on CRON O METER, so i started taking one fermented cod liver oil cap most days.

this could be a good option?

Edited by gt190, 18 February 2012 - 07:01 PM.






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