116 replies to this topic

[Rior]

Hooter, you happen to read what I said earlier about Piracetam vs other nootropics? I'm curious about your take on it

[hooter]

Hooter, you happen to read what I said earlier about Piracetam vs other nootropics? I'm curious about your take on it

Aniracetam makes me angry, oxiracetam is too expensive for my tastes. Hope that clears it up.

I like hydergine though, it's very nice.

[health_nutty]

Hooter, you happen to read what I said earlier about Piracetam vs other nootropics? I'm curious about your take on it

Aniracetam makes me angry, oxiracetam is too expensive for my tastes. Hope that clears it up.

I like hydergine though, it's very nice.

Odd that Ani makes you angry. Piracetam is the one that makes me angry / irritable. L-glutamic acid helps take away some of the irritability. I've ditched Piracetam because I'm getting better results from Ani stacked with Pram.

[Kunal Chatkara]

http://psychedelic-i...ory.com/toc.php

For anyone still in disbelief about the use of
psychedelics, this should fix that. Or you can keep taking experimentals that accomplish close to nothing, your call.

Thanks hoot. Could you elaborate a bit on your own personal experience with "psilo" though?

[hooter]

Thanks hoot. Could you elaborate a bit on your own personal experience with "psilo" though?

It's more incredible than anything in this world and has helped me permanently reevaluate life, the universe and everything. The experience is quite ineffable and there is no way words can do it any justice. At high enough doses it has the capacity to dissolve the ego so potently that you experience the infinity of the universe while no longer recognizably seeing yourself as a human or a single entity. Your consciousness melts into your surroundings and your identity is temporarily erased. It is the experience of an alien visiting planet earth.

(And yes, Richard Feynman did a lot of illicit substances. He's a nobel prize winning quantum physicist who not only contributed a significant amount to science but also liked to put himself in sensory deprivation tanks and trip balls. Problem? )

Since the experience itself is not an induced result but simply the consequence of turning off the brain's filtering mechanisms, the effects can be seen as a more true version of reality. While a regular mind is in linear processing mode, the psychedelic mind is more akin to a quantum computer. It is possible to have several parallel thought streams, and one is endowed with parallel processing.

Now some people claim this is achievable with meditation, but I have not heard of such a reported case in history. It always comes from people who like doing yoga and whatnot but have never done psilocybin. Psilocybin induces a defragmentation of identity, a rebooting of internalized culture and a temporary but effective destruction of the ego. The experience is more 'real' than reality itself, which is confirmed by fMRI scans. Our consciousness is mostly subtractive, in our sober minds we never get the full breadth of reality.

I have experienced the following on psilocybin and piracetam:

• Lost identity and became a computer. I no longer knew of my old self.
• I experienced the infinity of the cosmos first hand. This is the only way to truly understand numbers such as three hundred billion.
• Experienced what it would be like to actually see 4 dimensional shapes.
• All trees turned completely fractal.
• Everything became decidedly geometric.
• Understood at an intuitive level what constitutes the building blocks of personality.
• Extreme time dilation.
• Breaks in causality and spontaneous mental teleportation between events.
• Incredible analytic ability in terms of reading body language and emotive states of others. I imagine historically this would be so convincing that people might think the shaman is 'telepathic'.
• A completely critical worldview that is not encumbered by personal norms, cultural norms or any preconceptions or dogmas that have been drilled into my mind over a lifetime.

I really suggest you read the entire book of Psychedelic Information Theory. For more reports you could check out erowid, but those people are taking it for recreational purposes. I don't think this is useful recreationally whatsoever. It is a potent debugging tool for the computer of our minds, use it wisely.

Note that it is necessary to hum or sing in order to control the experience, or your thoughts will decohere. This is all explained in scientific detail in the book I have linked.

Cheers

[Kunal Chatkara]

Cheers! Just ordered the book

[Kunal Chatkara]

BTW your response reminded me of Albert Hofman's account with LSD and reality, how it ceases to exist when the ego is dissolved. I went and looked it up. I forgot how amazing I found this written experience. Simply astounding. For anyone who cares to read it -http://www.psychedelic-library.org/child11.htm

[kassem23]

I can vouch for everything hooter stated in the post above.

[Engineer]

Wow this thread died then. I'd hazard a guess the crackpot OP was hoping to claim some miracle effects and then flog his 'Genius-creating' paracetemol to some gullible souls on here.

[protoject]

I also think psilocybin is an amazing substance and agree that low doses may be very beneficial for some individuals [in fact, it's one of the only psychedelics I'll consider useful these days]. But I'm gonna save all readers the trip report and ask, should we really be discussing psychedelics so much on this forum? Usually it doesn't belong in a place like imminst , more like bluelight or drugsforum or something like that, then again maybe I'm wrong and it's now sanctioned that we can talk about this extensively in the mental health section of the forums??.. take it to bluelight fellas.

[viget]

I also think psilocybin is an amazing substance and agree that low doses may be very beneficial for some individuals [in fact, it's one of the only psychedelics I'll consider useful these days]. But I'm gonna save all readers the trip report and ask, should we really be discussing psychedelics so much on this forum? Usually it doesn't belong in a place like imminst , more like bluelight or drugsforum or something like that, then again maybe I'm wrong and it's now sanctioned that we can talk about this extensively in the mental health section of the forums??.. take it to bluelight fellas.

+1

Intrigued by the book "Psychedelic Information Theory" - I flipped through about 60 pages - I've done a quick research.
It's just a hallucinogen which makes you hallucinate.
Somewhat like marijuana, or catharsis you get from religious practice, yoga, etc.
It could be beneficial for some people; however, far from being math dummy to quantum physics.

[kassem23]

Viget: You obviously have no clue what on earth you're talking about, have never studied nor understood what psychedelic drugs do or do not do. Please inform yourself and then come back and be sensible.

[Rior]

I would be so inclined as to say that one cannot possibly, by any sense of the word, truly *understand* what a psychedelic experience is without experiencing it firsthand. It's like explaining quantum physics to a dog. Well not quite, but after experiencing a psychedelic, it makes you understand that it is impossible to understand without having the personal experience. A good way to gain a minor idea of it would be to read Aldous Huxley's Doors of Perception. Great book.

[viget]

Viget: You obviously have no clue what on earth you're talking about, have never studied nor understood what psychedelic drugs do or do not do. Please inform yourself and then come back and be sensible.

Yes, you are right. I did not studied nor know what psychedelic drugs do or do not do. All I know is it is a hallucinogen, and there is a theory on it that could possibly be BS. You are also right; I should be more sensible and, I might add, keep my mouth shut on a subject that I do not know well. However, I didn't want some people to try an illegal substance for possible BS. Remember, we are here for nootropics, not for spiritual discovery.

[evo]

Viget, do you not realize that the two outcomes are inextricably linked?

No one is necessarily calling psilocybin a 'nootropic' in the literal sense of the definition, but I would argue that people are here to increase their PRACTICAL INTELLIGENCE, not just their computational ability and memory.

Traditional nootropics increase the efficiency and effectiveness with which the mind operates. Psychedelics on the other hand allow one to expand their perception--and this is scientifically proven. By disrupting one's executive function & neurobiological filtering mechanisms, you experience thoughts, ideas, and mental states which would otherwise be inaccessible consciously.

Make no mistake, this is not a universal positive, but for those of sound mind with a desire for perceptual expansion, entheogens are an incredible gift.

Looking at vast amounts of statistical data, you will see that there is little correlation between measured intelligence/IQ and one's achievements. The efficiency of neurological function means little if your mind is consistently constrained to a few destructive thought-loops.

"Ego death" is a common topic associate with psychedelics, and I believe it is also important in understanding their beneficial nature. In normal, unaltered consciousness, you perceive everything through the lens of your ego--you see things not as they truly are, but as they exist relative to YOUR thoughts, beliefs, understandings, and memories. The simple act of experiencing perception WITHOUT the ego gives you a glimpse into the objective; it gives you the ability to see things "outside" of yourself, and in doing so it expands your awareness and can give rise to new thoughts and understanding in the right environment.

Bottom line, intelligence alone means little without CREATIVITY and MOTIVATION. To develop novel solutions that change the world and improve the human condition requires more than just computational prowess--it is predicated on the ability to see things DIFFERENTLY... In Western society where intelligence is considered almost wholly empirical, you must break out of these patterns of assumption to achieve creative breakthroughs; ironically this is why many true geniuses and savants in Western society are so commonly associated with insanity.

If your goal is to discover and actualize "genius" rather than just intelligence, psychedelics should not be overlooked.

Edited by lmlj, 06 July 2012 - 08:37 PM.

[viget]

Lmlj, no, I am aware of that the outcomes are linked; however, I am not so sure about whether they are inextricable or not. Once seal your argument making it inextricable, you fall into a slippery slope argument. To be extreme, someone could argue that heroin(Cocaine, speed, etc) could change one’s perception, brain structure, physical strength or whatnot and have beneficial effects on their well-being and their society.

The basic substance of your argument is that psilocybin could change and expand one’s perception and would then add to one’s intelligence. Good. Expanding the parameter of one’s mind is always good. I am not here to argue whether having different perceptions might have some beneficial effects or not. If psilocybin weren’t a hallucinogen and illegal, I wouldn’t have this conversation with you. I responded to this thread to let those gullible, naive, or somewhat less educated people to know that they are considering the hallucinogen for totally different purposes without knowing or mistakenly thinking that they know.

If you want to expand your mind and have different perceptions like Richard Feynman being a Martian and actually want to put an effort to achieve it. May I suggest you to read philosophy books? The Philosophy Gym by Stephen Law is a good start.

[kassem23]

Viget, please do not be as closed-minded as you are and actually inform yourself.

One cannot even begin to compare drugs that have been used for several thousands of years for the bettering of human kind in ritualistic settings with highly concentrated, neurotoxic drugs. Please do not compare psilocybin and related molecules to heroin. It is not prudent nor intelligent to do so and demonstrates a complete lack of common knowledge surrounding their use and associated psychotropic and pharmacological effects.

Thank you.

[hooter]

When someone talks about psychedelics merely making you 'hallucinate', it's clear that they are completely out of their depth in the matter.

Edited by hooter, 07 July 2012 - 04:50 PM.

[abelard lindsay]

I would be so inclined as to say that one cannot possibly, by any sense of the word, truly *understand* what a psychedelic experience is without experiencing it firsthand. It's like explaining quantum physics to a dog. Well not quite, but after experiencing a psychedelic, it makes you understand that it is impossible to understand without having the personal experience. A good way to gain a minor idea of it would be to read Aldous Huxley's Doors of Perception. Great book.

Long ago I tried psychedelics. It's actually pretty easy to describe. If you've ever lucid dreamed it's like that, except you're actually awake. Like you're at home in your bed dreaming but the dream is actually reality. People forget this and think they can fly, etc. which is what causes bad things to happen.

[viget]

Okay guys. We are having communication errors here.

I see that there are two problems:

1. Your point of view – You, viget, did not study psilocybin, so you do not know.
2. My point of view – You guys are not getting the gist of my argument.

Even if I studied the substance and concur with you guys that it is a different kind of hallucinogen, but the fact that it is illegal doesn’t change. Do you guys really have to advocate an illegal substance on a nootropics forum? Do you want to link it to nootropcis? But, if you do that you fall into the slippery slope.

FYI. If you guys are playing a straw man then I couldn’t care less. But, just in case you guys are serious, the norcadics are the example of the slippery slope. It’s an exaggeration, but you get the point. No?

Please, take it to a drug forum or such and praise it all you want there. You won’t find me there trying to find flaws in the studies.

Edited by viget, 07 July 2012 - 10:26 PM.

[evo]

Viget, again, you are the one who does not belong here. This community is for people of open mind and empirical pursuit--we are here for one purpose, and one purpose only: to better ourselves and/or the human condition.

Such pursuits fall outside the jurisdiction of any law imposed by misinformed, small minds. I have also lived in countries where these substances (particularly Ayahuasca) are not illegal, and used in ritualistic capacity to expand awareness, empathy, and understanding.

It's not that we don't get the "gist of your argument," it's just that it's idiotic and ignorant. Not only do you not understand the pharmacokinetics of these DMT-based compounds, you formulate your opinion with no basis in experience, because "the law" tells you it's bad for you. Legality is irrelevant in the pursuit of moral, empirical quality through reason.

We've never said that such substances are a "miracle solution" or that there is no risk for adverse reactions among the weak-willed or unprepared. Like ANY substance, legal or illegal, there is a cost-benefit matrix. We're not here to advocate the substance, merely to have an unbiased discussion of its benefits and risks. And to protect the forum from people like you, basing their rationale on dogma rather than facts.

Like any powerful substance, psychedulics should be treated with due respect. And like any powerful substance, abuse by a select minority is inevitable. But to project a moral judgement on an indiscriminate compound in the name of "protecting this minority from themselves" is asinine, and it is this dangerous thinking that holds back so many potential therapeutic advances.

All this to say, in the politest way possible, open your mind or GTFO.

Edited by lmlj, 08 July 2012 - 10:28 PM.

[DAMABO]

Viget, do you not realize that the two outcomes are inextricably linked?

No one is necessarily calling psilocybin a 'nootropic' in the literal sense of the definition, but I would argue that people are here to increase their PRACTICAL INTELLIGENCE, not just their computational ability and memory.

Traditional nootropics increase the efficiency and effectiveness with which the mind operates. Psychedelics on the other hand allow one to expand their perception--and this is scientifically proven. By disrupting one's executive function & neurobiological filtering mechanisms, you experience thoughts, ideas, and mental states which would otherwise be inaccessible consciously.

Make no mistake, this is not a universal positive, but for those of sound mind with a desire for perceptual expansion, entheogens are an incredible gift.

For those already in trouble with executive function it would become very problematic, as I'm sure it would with me. Perhaps my mental state is similar to a person using a substance like that.

[viget]

Viget, again, you are the one who does not belong here. This community is for people of open mind and empirical pursuit--we are here for one purpose, and one purpose only: to better ourselves and/or the human condition.

Such pursuits fall outside the jurisdiction of any law imposed by misinformed, small minds. I have also lived in countries where these substances (particularly Ayahuasca) are not illegal, and used in ritualistic capacity to expand awareness, empathy, and understanding.

It's not that we don't get the "gist of your argument," it's just that it's idiotic and ignorant. Not only do you not understand the pharmacokinetics of these DMT-based compounds, you formulate your opinion with no basis in experience, because "the law" tells you it's bad for you. Legality is irrelevant in the pursuit of moral, empirical quality through reason.

We've never said that such substances are a "miracle solution" or that there is no risk for adverse reactions among the weak-willed or unprepared. Like ANY substance, legal or illegal, there is a cost-benefit matrix. We're not here to advocate the substance, merely to have an unbiased discussion of its benefits and risks. And to protect the forum from people like you, basing their rationale on dogma rather than facts.

Like any powerful substance, psychedulics should be treated with due respect. And like any powerful substance, abuse by a select minority is inevitable. But to project a moral judgement on an indiscriminate compound in the name of "protecting this minority from themselves" is asinine, and it is this dangerous thinking that holds back so many potential therapeutic advances.

All this to say, in the politest way possible, open your mind or GTFO.

Sigh....
Okay. My lord, the small and closed minded idiotic ignorant person is getting the F off. I am done.

Edited by viget, 09 July 2012 - 05:52 AM.

[hooter]

.
Even if I studied the substance and concur with you guys that it is a different kind of hallucinogen, but the fact that it is illegal doesn’t change. Do you guys really have to advocate an illegal substance on a nootropics forum? Do you want to link it to nootropcis? But, if you do that you fall into the slippery slope.

FYI. If you guys are playing a straw man then I couldn’t care less. But, just in case you guys are serious, the norcadics are the example of the slippery slope. It’s an exaggeration, but you get the point. No?

Please, take it to a drug forum or such and praise it all you want there. You won’t find me there trying to find flaws in the studies.

Norcadics? Do you mean narcotics? Are you this profoundly uninformed? You realize that hallucinogens have anti-addictive potential and have helped people beat their addiction to opiates / alcohol / other drugs, right? What 'studies' are you referring to? Seems like you didn't look at a single one.

There are many ENTHEOGENS that are legal in many places: Ayahuasca, Hawaiian Baby Woodrose, Psilacetin, Morning Glory, Salvia, etc.

Slippery slope to what? I will guarantee you that you cannot get addicted to psychedelics. Why? Because THEY DON'T WORK WHEN USED MORE OFTEN THAN ONCE A WEEK. THEY SIMPLY DON'T DO ANYTHING TO YOU. PERIOD. You really need to step up your research, pal.

[kassem23]

I just vomited because of viget's continuous persistence being an ignorant baffoon.

[hooter]

Once u take lsd its a slippery slope you mgiht become a physcist or a beatle better just keep your job at wendys

[kassem23]

Yo bro, I think this is viget's style:

[platypus]

It's just a hallucinogen which makes you hallucinate.

That's a naive viewpoint. Even if that was the whole truth, the hallucinations would be created by "you" and granting you a portal into your own subconscious.

[kassem23]

Fine. Boil the entire human consciousness down to hallucinations. Makes sense. :D

[Jamie Puckett]

I think the psychadelic experience is something that is very important to understanding lots of things. IMHO everyone should trip at least once. I definitely think that occasional use of -low dose- psilocybin has a great potential to make one more intelligent. This does not mean that you will sit down and do something you have never been taught to do, but I believe that by watching someone or (some other way of learning) you will develop an understanding of the subject that you would not have otherwise had. It gives a different perspective to things.

My limited experiences have shown me a few things. Among these are the realization that we as individuals truly don't have a large impact on the universe. Even if you become a well-known figure here on Earth, you have no effect on the universe as a whole. My takeaway is that we should strive for personal happiness, and to make better the short existence of those around us. We should always try to impact positively entities that we come in contact with in order to make this existence more fulfulling for everyone. I honestly cannot explain the logical process of thought in words, because it is on an entirely different level mentally and spiritually.

My point is that, psychadelics have the following properties:
1. Give you a completely different perspective on everything.
2. Are not harmful when used correctly.
3. Increase creativity and open-mindedness. There are no wrong opinions if you forget your own personal bias.
4. Help to give a sense of unity and understanding with respect to self, nature, and the universe.

Psychadelics are not a bad thing, and are mainly illegal because certain people fear losing control over the resulting open-minded populace.

There of course are the people who only want to use them to feel good or see things without any regard to their own safety or the true intent of the experience.

I disagree with some that say psychadelics can't harm you. The serotonin system in the brain is very sensitive and overstimulation, while probably not fatal, will have negative lasting effects. Look up brain zaps or brain shivers for an example. I have had these side-effects when taking mushrooms.