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Benzo withdrawal 14 months off, still suffering with cognitive impairment

benzodiazepine withdrawal cognitive impairment

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#181 ColoradoPAWS

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Posted 20 May 2016 - 01:01 PM

Hey Un Chein we have people who didn't benefit and others who totally healed . We tweaked based on what we learned and also because it was informal testing we now believe some did not dose every 12 hours ( this is critical ) or they took other supplements , drank alcohol , were on other medical prescribed meds , etc . If you can stay off other supplements for 12 weeks it should have a high success rate for you . It will make you feel a lot worse the first few weeks , but you will be healing . You can read the ginkgo thread with posted results ( good or bad ) on the alternative therapy section of benzobuddy.org For some reason you need to a member to see that section , when I asked them about that they said they don't want it used for medical research . If you are not a member you can join for free .

Here are some tips if you ever decide to try again


WARNING : DO NOT USE GINKGO UNLESS YOU ARE OFF BENZOS > 30 DAYS

http://www.benzobudd...p?topic=94005.0

Cured Oct 2013. My success story:


http://www.benzobudd...p?topic=92537.0


Ginkgo supplements :
Ginkgo extract 24% flavone glycosides and 6 % terpene lactones ones 60 mg 7am and 7pm when cycled on.
I only needed this for 12 weeks. Brand I used - GinkgoGold

Tips :
1) Dose every 12 hours (critical)
2) Stop Ginkgo 1 week after 4 weeks
3) No herbs, alcohol, relax teas, meds impacting gaba or weed
4) Be prepared for significant increase in sxs for the first few weeks.

Suggestions, opinions and/or advice provided by the author of this post should not be regarded as medical advice; nor should it substitute for professional medical care. Consult your doctor before making any changes to your medication.

#182 PowerfulP

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Posted 27 May 2016 - 11:19 PM

Anybody have success switching from a benzo to benzo-analogue etizolam, and then tapering off of that?

 

How about pregabalin, gabapentin, phenibut, baclofen - as substitutes for benzos until off of benzos?

 

And then phenobarbital at the end to be off everything PAWS free.

 

Anyone have protracted withdrawal syndrome after tapering off of etizolam or phenibut? I believe it is unique only to benzos. I did not have PAWS with phenibut or etizolam myself. 

 

I have been my own guinea pig, and I think I have found success. Although, I am not completely done yet. I will share if it ultimately proves successful in preventing any sort of PAWS after years of benzo use. My plan is hinted at in details above.

 

I haven't had a regular benzodiazepine in months and am fine. This, after 8 years prescribed alprazolam or clonazopam daily.


Edited by PowerfulP, 27 May 2016 - 11:30 PM.

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#183 gamesguru

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Posted 28 May 2016 - 01:31 AM

I haven't had a regular benzodiazepine in months and am fine. This, after 8 years prescribed alprazolam or clonazopam daily.


consider yourself lucky

#184 PowerfulP

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Posted 28 May 2016 - 02:09 AM

 

I haven't had a regular benzodiazepine in months and am fine. This, after 8 years prescribed alprazolam or clonazopam daily.


consider yourself lucky

 

Well....after 2.5 years of trial and error and lots of PAWS. 



#185 PowerfulP

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Posted 28 May 2016 - 08:20 AM

 

 

I haven't had a regular benzodiazepine in months and am fine. This, after 8 years prescribed alprazolam or clonazopam daily.


consider yourself lucky

 

Well....after 2.5 years of trial and error and lots of PAWS. 

 

Also Tianeptine and Memantine were in my stable. I will be outlining my process in detail soon enough, when I am absolutely finished and certain.

 

Flumazenil definitely has a place for preventing PAWS. I believe an inverse agonist called α5IA may ultimately prove to be much better at preventing PAWS altogether. I am a chemical researcher and have a doctorate but Sigma-Aldrich is the only vendor, and I'm not part of an organization that can purchase from there. Here's some relevant links.

 

First, the wikipedia entry - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Α5IA

 

Second, only vendor I have found http://www.sigmaaldr...S&focus=product

 

http://www.wikiwand.com/en/Α5IA

 

 

An Inverse Agonist Selective for α5 Subunit-Containing GABAA Receptors Enhances Cognition

http://jpet.aspetjou...jpet;316/3/1335



#186 IP3

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Posted 28 May 2016 - 12:06 PM


I think sigma aldrich could sell you something for one person businnes activity. Especialy if you have doctorate.

#187 PowerfulP

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Posted 17 June 2016 - 06:20 AM

I think sigma aldrich could sell you something for one person businnes activity. Especialy if you have doctorate.

 

I did try, but I'm often a one-man operation, but I do have a nice lab exceeding all requirements. I think they disliked I was not a company.



#188 IP3

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Posted 23 June 2016 - 05:32 AM

Where can i buy this bpc? I would give it a chance.

#189 nicklesprout

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Posted 15 January 2017 - 09:21 PM

I think the peptide BPC-157 is extremely interesting when it comes to "curing" PAWS. Here's a quote from Metabolic Alchemy--

"A novel gastric pentadecapeptide BPC 157 with different beneficial activities and anticonvulsant effect interacting with GABAergic system could improve diazepam efficacy coadministered (10 microg/kg, 10 ng/kg i.p.) with diazepam (5.0 mg/kg i.p.) twice daily for 10 days, since diazepam chronic medication would otherwise predispose for diazepam- tolerance/withdrawal development (shorter latency to convulsion after convulsant). In diazepam chronically treated mice, it attenuated diazepam tolerance (provoked by later acute administration of diazepam together with convulsant) and postponed physical dependence/withdrawal effects (provoked by later administration of isoniazid). In tolerance assay, at 42 h after the end of conditioning regimen, shorter preconvulsive latencies than in healthy (non-diazepam conditioned) mice following isoniazid (800 mg/kg i.p.) (as hallmark of tolerance) were observed if diazepam (5.0 mg/kg i.p.) was again given acutely to mice previously conditioned with diazepam alone (use of picrotoxin 3.0 mg/kg i.p., as convulsant, with acute application of diazepam in previously diazepam conditioned mice did not lead to tolerance hallmark). This was completely avoided in diazepam+BPC 157 10 microg or diazepam+BPC 157 10 ng chronically treated animals. In physical dependence assay (isoniazid challenge assessed at 6, 14, 42 and 72 h after conditioning medication), when compared to diazepam non-conditioned healthy mice, in diazepam conditioned mice residual anticonvulsive activity was not present already at the earliest post-conditioning interval (i.e., not different latency to isoniazid-convulsions), whereas shorter preconvulsive latencies (as physical dependence/withdrawal hallmark) were noted in diazepam conditioned mice following isoniazid challenge at 42 h and at 72 h after end of conditioning treatment. In diazepam+BPC 157 10 microg- conditioned mice, a residual anticonvulsive activity (i.e., longer latency to isoniazid convulsion) was noted at 6 h post-conditioning, whereas shorter preconvulsive latencies appeared only at 72 h-post-conditioning period. In conclusion, taken together these data (lack of tolerance development (tolerance studies), prolonged residual anticonvulsive activity, and postponed physical dependence/withdrawal hallmark in diazepam+BPC 157 chronically treated mice) with common benzodiazepines tolerance/withdrawal knowledge, it could be speculated that BPC 157 acts favoring the natural homeostasis of the GABA receptor complex as well as enhancing the GABAergic transmission, and having a mechanism at least partly different from those involved in diazepam tolerance/withdrawal, it may be likely used in further therapy of diazepam tolerance and withdrawal."


Bumping this. I've seen some interesting anecdotal reports on this substance on Reddit. Wondering if anybody has tried this for cognitive or mental health issues?

Where can i buy this bpc? I would give it a chance.


Peptides Warehouse has it. There is talk about it on Reddit

#190 Major Legend

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Posted 17 January 2017 - 04:58 PM

Flumazenil?



#191 Justchill

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 10:06 AM

The PAWS I mostly have are belly bloating (benzo-belly), face tension and face tinglings; sometimes muscle jerks.

Everytime I take something GABA-ergic the withdrawals come back and I am sick of it.

 

Has anybody has had succes (faster receptor healing) using GABA-A antagonists?

You have ginkgo, muira puama, kudzu root...

 

I will now try high doses of ginkgo and see if there is improvement.


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#192 AOIministrator

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 12:52 PM

Well, I read your original post an let me tell you, that you got it all wrong. There is no way to be convincing about this, and no medical study can fudge the proper conclusion into that direction either.

Writing computer programs is mentally such a delicate job, that even the time you take a shit dan set off your concentration. If you dump in strong psychotropics, like benzos or antidepressants, it stirrs the pot so much that you are entirely thrown out of your high fidelity comfort zone.

Following weeks and month of pressure to perform in a job regardless, your mind taxes your bodily resources so much to overcome the disturbance, that you figuratively learn to run around with all your faculties overclocked 24/7 as your default mental state.

This is not really a result of drug use or withdrawal, its a result of your psyche trying to accomplish something its not fit for.

What you need is a long long vacation on a farm, away from your life. Month maybe, half a year.

Trust me that if you keep grinding your teeth off with this idea that you can somrhow rectify this problem with some utterly pseudoscietific BS about your neurotransmitters and drugs, its only going to tear you apart further.

On another note: try some kind of "homeopathy". Take miniscule quantities of benzos again and see how you CNS re-recognizes the "poison". It might very well result in some kind of rectification. I am talking 1/10th a tablet or so. I have personally experienced this a few times.
Well, I read your original post an let me tell you, that you got it all wrong. There is no way to be convincing about this, and no medical study can fudge the proper conclusion into that direction either.

Writing computer programs is mentally such a delicate job, that even the time you take a shit dan set off your concentration. If you dump in strong psychotropics, like benzos or antidepressants, it stirrs the pot so much that you are entirely thrown out of your high fidelity comfort zone.

Following weeks and month of pressure to perform in a job regardless, your mind taxes your bodily resources so much to overcome the disturbance, that you figuratively learn to run around with all your faculties overclocked 24/7 as your default mental state.

This is not really a result of drug use or withdrawal, its a result of your psyche trying to accomplish something its not fit for.

What you need is a long long vacation on a farm, away from your life. Month maybe, half a year.

Trust me that if you keep grinding your teeth off with this idea that you can somrhow rectify this problem with some utterly pseudoscietific BS about your neurotransmitters and drugs, its only going to tear you apart further.

On another note: try some kind of "homeopathy". Take miniscule quantities of benzos again and see how you CNS re-recognizes the "poison". It might very well result in some kind of rectification. I am talking 1/10th a tablet or so. I have personally experienced this a few times.

#193 Eryximachus

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 01:21 AM

The PAWS I mostly have are belly bloating (benzo-belly), face tension and face tinglings; sometimes muscle jerks.

Everytime I take something GABA-ergic the withdrawals come back and I am sick of it.

 

Has anybody has had succes (faster receptor healing) using GABA-A antagonists?

You have ginkgo, muira puama, kudzu root...

 

I will now try high doses of ginkgo and see if there is improvement.

 

I personally have found seroquel works well.  It is not perfect, and it won't help with a lot of the physical problems you're describing, but it helps you sleep and reduces anxiety significantly.  The major side effects are fatigue, which gets better, and weight gain, which for me is quite noticeable.  It does negatively impact cognition to a degree, but that may also be withdrawal related.  What I like about it is that you can skip days or even a week, which I have done.  

 

It works fast, so I would suggest trying it for 2 weeks at say 25mg per day, and see how you feel.   You can order it from India, but I have been using a head doc.  



#194 Kompota

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 10:27 AM

I realize I haven't posted in my own topic since quite a while. There has been some development.

At some point the whole thing turned into a classic case of CFS - fatigue, low energy - mental and physical. The primary symptoms of benzo withdrawal (anxiety, sleep troubles) have long gone.

Last year, at the beginning of summer, I had the opportunity to meet a top doctor, who lives as a foreigner in my country. This was great, since health care in my country is primitive and various doctors' visits in 5 years had brought me nowhere (the usual ignorance and BS: "it is in your head", "it is psychological", "you are imagining this", "you should rest more"). Because of his extreme knowledge and experience, he managed to put a proper functional diagnosis (and not the usual "psychosomatic origin" crap), which all the ignorants failed to do during all those years. He looked at some common blood work (where all was within the ref. ranges !), asked me a few questions and said "Boy, you have a condition called leaky gut. Your GI tract is poisoning you and that is the reason why your cells can't produce energy in a proper way". Finally I had a proper diagnosis, and not the usual undetermined BS !

That was a real surprise to me, since all in all I didn't have any GI symptoms, but he said that leaky gut can go on asymptomatic in terms of GI issues. Indeed, my research since has confirmed this may rather be true. He gave me various recommendations and I have been trying some things since then with variable success - cleansing enemas, diet probiotics, supplements. There have been moments where I felt almost like my old self, full with energy. My guess is those were the moments when my gut lining got in a better shape (tight junction closing up) and toxins were no longer leaking into my bloodstream. However it didn't last. My guess is there is some notorious bad bacteria, which I can't fully exterminate without resorting to antibiotics. There is a partial success, but it appears to grow again and the released LPS (lipopolysaccharides) are damaging my gut lining, restarting the vicious cycle.

What is the benzodiazepine connection ? I may have come to a revelation when researching H Pylori infection. It is indeed a gram-negative bacteria, which releases LPS upon death. However, that pathogenic mechanism of action seems to be ignored and people are more focused on the more familiar mechanism of action, where in order to protect itself, H Pylori lowers stomach acidity (through production of an enzyme - urease). The body tries to compensate by increasing acid production, but this causes stomach / deudenum ulcers. Those are a clear sign of a H Pylori infections. I myself don't have those, but from the info I have read it appears a H Pylori infection can indeed go on asymptomatic (no GI symptoms, but a whole myriad of other issues throughout the body, because of the leaky gut). I looked at the treatment, the so called "tripple therapy". In addition to two different antibiotics it includes a PPI (proton-pump inhibitor). A PPI lowers stomach acidity, thus causing H Pylori to somehow - as I understand - "lower it's guard", so that the antibiotics have a stronger effect. I wonder: could the benzos 6 years have acted as PPI somehow, indirectly maybe ? As allosteric modulators they are controlling the opening of the Cl- ion channels. Perhaps they have lowered my stomach acidity, opening the gates for a full-blown - though hidden - H Pylori infection, triggering the whole disaster. I am going to discuss this with that doctor and will do a test for H Pylori this week. There is a bit of hope that the whole thing could be resolved with a 2-weeks course of antibiotics after 6 years of suffering.

 

So I am wondering: how many of you fellow post-benzo sufferers may have a leaky gut without even suspecting it ?         


Edited by Kompota, 14 August 2017 - 10:30 AM.


#195 AOIministrator

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 04:41 PM

Dude, you have entered a shitspital with your leaky gut idea. While there might be some truth to the theory in some cases, its quack like heavy metal poisoning, that large numbers of people fall for who are only marginally affected, or not affected at all.

I am not saying that there aren't at least some practices from the whole fringe business that can do some good, like eating grinded papaya seeds until you puke an shit the demons out of your body. But overall its just plain esotheric and conversely other practices just do as much harm. Like eating antibiotics frequently.
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#196 AOIministrator

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 04:50 PM

Btw. if you pay me $20 an hour, we can sit together and root out the BS in your line of reasoning.
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