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NSI-189

nsi-189

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#781 cATsE

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 09:57 PM

Does anyone want to play Devil's advocate and suggest why hippocampal growth/size increase from this compound may not be permanent?

Those are my thoughts too. When I first heard of this substance it was from a psychiatrist. We only talked about it briefly, but he specifically stressed the importance of also following some kind of therapy sessions while on this drug, I always wondered why... Now I think it might have been because he already knew, or at least suspected, that this growth would probably only be temporary, but that during this relatively short time it would still be possible to make rather permanent changes in someone behavior and thought patterns, because of the use of a combination of both drugs as well as therapy.

Don't know if I'm right of course, I'm just thinking out loud here. However, when you think of it, the changes of inducing a growth that's actually permanent are pretty slim given the body's feedback mechanisms - compare it to artificially obtained muscle growth for example. I also think people must be willing to make some rather radical changes in their life on all kind of levels, if they really want to reap the benefit of this.

Anyhow, we'll see what comes of it soon enough I guess.
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#782 Major Legend

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 05:10 AM

Its a good thing the body is able to self regulate like that, not so much difference from tolerance developing from nearly every good drug there is. Plus if the body wasn't good at returning to status quo than potentially cancerous cells will go unregulated.

I imagine it was a useful function when humans would ingest continiusly poisonous foods and plants without knowing it, and the body will adapt to statu quo for maximum survivability.

Anyways - Wouldn't these new drugs like essentially be like steroid for brains, we would have to cycle and be prepared to take it for the rest of our lives. Might also need post cycle intake to prevent losses.

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#783 CognitionCoefficient

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 04:31 PM

Just a reminder to PM or email those who've bought into this group buy for the shipping fee.

#784 Xenix

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 05:34 PM

Does anyone want to play Devil's advocate and suggest why hippocampal growth/size increase from this compound may not be permanent?

Those are my thoughts too. When I first heard of this substance it was from a psychiatrist. We only talked about it briefly, but he specifically stressed the importance of also following some kind of therapy sessions while on this drug, I always wondered why... Now I think it might have been because he already knew, or at least suspected, that this growth would probably only be temporary, but that during this relatively short time it would still be possible to make rather permanent changes in someone behavior and thought patterns, because of the use of a combination of both drugs as well as therapy.

Don't know if I'm right of course, I'm just thinking out loud here. However, when you think of it, the changes of inducing a growth that's actually permanent are pretty slim given the body's feedback mechanisms - compare it to artificially obtained muscle growth for example. I also think people must be willing to make some rather radical changes in their life on all kind of levels, if they really want to reap the benefit of this.

Anyhow, we'll see what comes of it soon enough I guess.


What kind of therapy did your psychiatrist suggest to undertake while under the drug? I play lumosity games and do dual-n-back, but if anything I feel like I'm only improving at those games, and I don't really believe that it translates to real-world cognitive skills. What should I be doing to really improve my overall cognitive abilities, or is dnb and lumosity as good as it gets?

I'm won't really be using the drug for cognitive enhancement, more to repair existing brain damage from cerebral hypoxia - which (I believe) has physically damaged my hippocampus... I wonder if there would be different gains from people who have actual damage to their hippocampus compared to healthy people with no abnormalities in theirs?

#785 Sholrak

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 08:03 PM

Hippocampal size positively correlates with verbal IQ in male children.

Schumann CM, Hamstra J, Goodlin-Jones BL, Kwon H, Reiss AL, Amaral DG.

Source

Department of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences and M.I.N.D. Institute, University of California, Davis, CA 95817, USA.

Abstract


Historically, there have been numerous proposals that the size of the brain correlates with its capacity to process information. Little is known, however, about which specific brain regions contribute to this correlation in children and adolescents. This study evaluated the relationship between intelligence and the size of various brain structures in typically developing male children 8-18 yrs of age. Magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) scans were used to measure the volume of the cerebrum, cerebral gray and white matter, cerebellum, amygdala, and hippocampus. Gray matter and hippocampal volume significantly correlated with full scale and verbal IQ. Since the hippocampus strongly correlated with verbal but not performance IQ, our findings reinforce the hypothesis that the hippocampus is involved in declarative and semantic learning, which contributes more notably to verbal IQ, than to performance IQ. Given the substantial evidence for environmentally induced changes in hippocampal structure, an unresolved issue is whether this relationship reflects genetically determined individual variation or learning induced plasticity.
© 2007 Wiley-Liss, Inc. PMID: 17407128 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]



Hippocampal Size Predicts Antidepressant Response

Pam HarrisonNov 16, 2012


Larger hippocampal volume predicts antidepressant treatment response in individuals with late-life depression, new research suggests.
Results of the 12-week study showed that smaller pretreatment hippocampal volumes significantly predicted a slower rate of change in Montgomery-Ǻsberg Depression Rating Scale (MADRS) scores from baseline to the end of the 12-week study.
In addition, the researchers found that slower cognitive processing speed significantly predicted a slower rate of change in depression scores.
"Studies have shown that late-life depression may be associated with certain structural changes in the brain, including shrinkage in certain regions," Dr. Murali Doraiswamy, MD, Duke University School of Medicine, Durham, North Carolina, told Medscape Medical News.
"But it has never been tested as to whether these structural changes alter response to antidepressant therapy or not. In this study, we found that they did."
The study is published in the November issue of the American Journal of Psychiatry.
Slower Response Rate
A total of 158 patients with late-life depression were recruited from the National Institute of Mental Health–sponsored Treatment Outcome in Vascular Depression study.
In addition, 57 control participants who were matched for vascular risk factor profiles but who had no history of depression were recruited from the community.
The study's primary outcome measure was the change in MADRS scores; MADRS scores were tracked weekly from baseline for 12 weeks.
Patients were initially treated with sertraline 25 mg for 1 day, after which the dose was slowly titrated up to a maximum dose of 200 mg a day on the basis of treatment response and adverse effects.
The investigators first compared patients with depression to the comparator group to generate regions of interest in the brain for testing the effects on treatment outcome.
After adjusting for all possible confounders, "only smaller hippocampal volume predicted a slower rate of response to antidepressant treatment," they write.
In a confirmatory analysis, investigators also examined which baseline volume and thickness variables differed between depressed patients who achieved remission and those who did not.
"Patients who did not achieve remission had significant smaller hippocampal volumes and thinner front poles than those who did achieve remission," they add.
Table: MRI Volumes Did Not Achieve Remission (n = 94) Achieved Remission (n = 64) Hippocampus volume (mm3) 7942.3 8298.2 Frontal pole thickness (mm) 5.5 5.8

"The clinical implication of this study is that patients with late-life depression who have small hippocampal volumes and slow cognitive processing speed are likely to have a slower as well as a less complete recovery," investigators conclude.
Posted Image
Essential Next Step
In an accompanying editorial, Susan Schultz, MD, University of Iowa College of Medicine, Iowa City, said that in order to gain a greater understanding of late-life depression, studies must "reach beyond examining a confluence of risk factors and [move] toward an understanding of pathogenesis." She added that the current study "represents one step in doing just that, but additional work exploring specific pathogenic processes affecting the hippocampus in late life may be the essential next step."
The study was funded by a collaborative grant for Clinical Studies of Mental Disorders. Dr. Doraiswamy reports receiving research support or honoraria from a number of pharmaceutical companies. The other investigators have disclosed no relevant financial relationships. Dr. Schultz reports receiving research funding from the Alzheimer's Disease Cooperative Study, Baxter Healthcare, and the Nellie Ball Trust Fund.
Am J Psychiatry. 2012:169;1185-1193; 1133-1136.



Hippocampal size predicts rapid learning of a cognitive map in humans

  • Victor R. Schinazi1,*,
  • Daniele Nardi2,
  • Nora S. Newcombe2,
  • Thomas F. Shipley2,
  • Russell A. Epstein1
Article first published online: 18 MAR 2013
DOI: 10.1002/hipo.22111
Copyright © 2013 Wiley Periodicals, Inc.


Abstract


The idea that humans use flexible map-like representations of their environment to guide spatial navigation has a long and controversial history. One reason for this enduring controversy might be that individuals vary considerably in their ability to form and utilize cognitive maps. Here we investigate the behavioral and neuroanatomical signatures of these individual differences. Participants learned an unfamiliar campus environment over a period of three weeks. In their first visit, they learned the position of different buildings along two routes in separate areas of the campus. During the following weeks, they learned these routes for a second and third time, along with two paths that connected both areas of the campus. Behavioral assessments after each learning session indicated that subjects formed a coherent representation of the spatial structure of the entire campus after learning a single connecting path. Volumetric analyses of structural MRI data and voxel-based morphometry (VBM) indicated that the size of the right posterior hippocampus predicted the ability to use this spatial knowledge to make inferences about the relative positions of different buildings on the campus. An inverse relationship between gray matter volume and performance was observed in the caudate. These results suggest that (i) humans can rapidly acquire cognitive maps of large-scale environments and (ii) individual differences in hippocampal anatomy may provide the neuroanatomical substrate for individual differences in the ability to learn and flexibly use these cognitive maps. © 2013 Wiley Periodicals, Inc.



Species differences in executive function correlate with hippocampus volume and neocortex ratio across nonhuman primates.


Shultz S, Dunbar RI
British Academy Centenary Research Project, Institute of Cognitive & Evolutionary Anthropology, University of Oxford, 64 Banbury Rd, Oxford OX2 6PN, England. susanne.shultz@anthro.ox.ac.uk


Journal of Comparative Psychology (Washington, D.C. : 1983) [2010, 124(3):252-260]
Type: Journal Article, Research Support, Non-U.S. Gov't, Comparative Study
DOI: 10.1037/a0018894 Posted Image

Abstract
A persistent debate in behavioral research is whether brain size or architecture relates to cognitive performance. A growing body of evidence has demonstrated correlations between brain size and ecological and behavioral tasks. These studies are premised on a causal link between brain size and cognitive function, although this association has little empirical backing. We show, for a set of 46 species from 17 primate genera, that competence on a series of eight executive function cognitive tasks both correlate across tasks and with brain size and architecture across species. Our model selection approach showed that, although several measures of brain component volumes are significantly associated with performance, hippocampus size is the best predictor of overall performance. The best performing model also includes total brain size and relative neocortex size. Additionally, absolute measures are much more predictive of performance than relative measures of brain and brain component size. These results are consistent with the hippocampus' role in learning, and the executive brain (neocortex) being important for problem solving and consolidation. Our findings challenge and extend those of previous analyses by clarifying the relationship between overall brain size and specific regional volumes. They also suggest that commonly used indices of encephalization, such as residuals of brain volume regressed on body size, may confound rather than clarify matters.



Permanent URL to this publication: http://dx.doi.org/10.5167/uzh-36673

Irle, E; Ruhleder, M; Lange, C; Seidler-Brandler, U; Salzer, S; Dechent, P; Weniger, G; Leibing, E; Leichsenring, F (2010). Reduced amygdalar and hippocampal size in adults with generalized social phobia. Journal of Psychiatry and Neuroscience, 35(2):126-131. Posted Image PDF
144Kb

Abstract

BACKGROUND: Structural and functional brain imaging studies suggest abnormalities of the amygdala and hippocampus in posttraumatic stress disorder and major depressive disorder. However, structural brain imaging studies in social phobia are lacking.

METHODS: In total, 24 patients with generalized social phobia (GSP) and 24 healthy controls underwent 3-dimensional structural magnetic resonance imaging of the amygdala and hippocampus and a clinical investigation.

RESULTS: Compared with controls, GSP patients had significantly reduced amygdalar (13%) and hippocampal (8%) size. The reduction in the size of the amygdala was statistically significant for men but not women. Smaller right-sided hippocampal volumes of GSP patients were significantly related to stronger disorder severity.

LIMITATIONS: Our sample included only patients with the generalized subtype of social phobia. Because we excluded patients with comorbid depression, our sample may not be representative.

CONCLUSION: We report for the first time volumetric results in patients with GSP. Future assessment of these patients will clarify whether these changes are reversed after successful treatment and whether they predict treatment response.





Hippocampus, whatever it is and does, seems determinative of global brain and mental health. And more size always correlates with positive things I would say.

We must suppose, when hippocampus grow, it will be even more protected against the size decrease.
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#786 IA87

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 01:40 AM

Hippocampal volume may be important, but I contend that what is most important is the process that caused its growth and synaptic structuring. This is conjecture, of course. Still, do not assume that correlation implies causation.

#787 Megatrone

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 12:35 PM

I don't know what you guys think about T&W Group, but I just got a quote from them:

"50g $2475 5-6weeks
100g $3600 5-6weeks
200g $4950 6-7weeks
98% +

Based on the small quantity, the custom synthesis is always at high end. I will ask my clients who are purchasing kilos from us if they need this material.
If the answer is positive, I will try to make the unit price much lower."

#788 hadora

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 12:41 PM

Megatrone, Can individuals order from them?
Do you think they can figure out How to synthesize it?
Is this company from china ?

#789 izan82

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 01:38 PM

I don't know what you guys think about T&W Group, but I just got a quote from them:

"50g $2475 5-6weeks
100g $3600 5-6weeks
200g $4950 6-7weeks
98% +

Based on the small quantity, the custom synthesis is always at high end. I will ask my clients who are purchasing kilos from us if they need this material.
If the answer is positive, I will try to make the unit price much lower."

very nice megatrone. T&W is quite legit

#790 phil8462643

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 03:25 PM

megatrone, i am in!
oops, forgive me for the next thousand posts from everybody and their grandma saying exactly what i just said! LOL!

Edited by phil8462643, 01 July 2013 - 03:26 PM.


#791 paul

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 08:12 PM

That's a good price. Count me in!

#792 PWAIN

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 09:20 PM

Hopefully not too late this time around.....I'm in....

#793 Adaptogen

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 10:08 PM

i would like to get in this

#794 brand2

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 01:16 AM

any update?
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#795 Megatrone

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 10:39 AM

Guys, I am not taking any names at this point. Right now, I'm just trying to find a legit, but trustworthy supplier, so that I have everything set up for another purchase, if NSI-189 turns out to be what we all hoped it would be. I find the quotes given by T&W highly competitive, considering we paid $5400 for 100g from...

Megatrone, Can individuals order from them?
Do you think they can figure out How to synthesize it?
Is this company from china ?


1. They didn't mention anything about the necessity of a company. So, yes I think.
2. From what I've heard this is a pretty experienced custom synthesis lab, having formerly synthesized products for group-buys.
3. Yes, the company is based in China.

#796 Sholrak

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 10:44 AM

But why making two different group buys? If we are more and more, maybe it will take more work, but think a big mass of production sure will make the substance cheaper per miligram.


Unless you can't wait to test NSI-189 until all the 40 first buyers try it and wanna reorder again, which is a valid point too :)

Can't wait to hear your experiences, how does the sending goes? C'mon, tell us how this chemical works soon, please!

#797 Megatrone

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 11:10 AM

But why making two different group buys? If we are more and more, maybe it will take more work, but think a big mass of production sure will make the substance cheaper per miligram.


Unless you can't wait to test NSI-189 until all the 40 first buyers try it and wanna reorder again, which is a valid point too :)

Can't wait to hear your experiences, how does the sending goes? C'mon, tell us how this chemical works soon, please!


I'm just trying to find another, cheaper supplier than the one used in this group-buy. I haven't said anything about making a separate group-buy. The only thing I know for certain, is that I will get 20-30g for myself and family. If more people order this kind of quantum, we should soon get large discounts. Well I guess we should get some discount from then European lab as well, if we order in the kilo range.

Any day now, ScienceGuy should receive the package.

Edited by Megatrone, 02 July 2013 - 11:56 AM.

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#798 therein

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 01:47 AM

Any word on the package?

#799 ScienceGuy

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 03:41 AM

UPDATE:

Hi everyone,

The lab says it is very nearly done; and it is now just in final stages of carrying out the PURIFICATION and QUALITY CONTROL processes to ensure the purity meets the desired specification. :)

There's also some boring paperwork to sort out regards organizing the shipment, but hopefully this won't take too long. ;)
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#800 Nattzor

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 11:14 AM

How much did it cost/person and how much will everyone get?

#801 Metagene

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 12:22 PM

IIRC $136.25 for 2.5 GRAMS.

#802 Nattzor

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 12:28 PM

IIRC $136.25 for 2.5 GRAMS.


What's the dosage?

#803 izan82

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 12:39 PM

40, 80 or 120 mg's a day.

#804 Metagene

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 12:51 PM

Everything is explained here.

http://clinicaltrial...how/NCT01520649

#805 h2o

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 11:35 AM

You guys may find this interesting: Size of hippocampus predicts math learning ability in children

http://www.mercuryne...predict-outcome


Stanford study says MRI scans can predict outcome of math tutoring

STANFORD -- When it comes to math, MRIs may be better than IQs -- and even past math scores -- at showing whether a tutor can help a child master everything from trapezoids to trigonometry.
A new study from the Stanford University School of Medicine says that the size and circuitry of certain parts of children's brains are excellent predictors of how well they'll respond to intensive math tutoring.
The researchers' most surprising finding was that children's IQ and math scores had no effect on tutoring outcomes, yet brain scan images "predicted how much a child would learn," said Vinod Menon, a Stanford professor of psychiatry and behavioral sciences who was the study's senior author.

The study was published online Monday in the journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.


The researchers found that the kids who responded the best to tutoring tended to have a larger and more active hippocampus. Named after the Greek word for "seahorse," the spirally hippocampus is known to play an important role in learning and memory. But its role in mastering specific skills -- like math -- hadn't been explored until now.
Even more than its size, the hippocampus's ability to get along with other parts of the brain was the biggest predictor of math success.

Like watching electricity flow between two points, the machine reveals how much one section of the brain is wired to other parts, "much like you might measure the synchronization of two different clocks," Menon said. "The more tightly linked they are, the more learning benefits we see in these children." Menon believes the tighter the connections between the hippocampus and the prefrontal cortex -- a part of the brain that influences decision-making and behavior -- the more rapid the retrieval of stored knowledge.
The fact that a brain scan -- rather than IQ or math scores -- could predict how students would respond to tutoring also surprised Michael Posner, a cognitive neuroscientist at the University of Oregon who was not involved in the study.

Posner was also surprised by the involvement of the hippocampus, rather than other regions of the brain, in learning math. "The hippocampus isn't a system that one would've thought specific to mathematics," Posner said.


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#806 Metagene

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 01:59 PM

Yeah cool right? I came across that article too (FYI I'm a preemie recently diagnosed with a math disorder plus ADD-PI and GAD) It will be interesting to see how the cognitively impaired respond to NSI-189 compared to normal individuals.

#807 Megatrone

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 06:28 PM

UPDATE:

Hi everyone,

The lab says it is very nearly done; and it is now just in final stages of carrying out the PURIFICATION and QUALITY CONTROL processes to ensure the purity meets the desired specification. :)

There's also some boring paperwork to sort out regards organizing the shipment, but hopefully this won't take too long. ;)


Thanks for the update ScienceGuy, however that's rather disappointing. I would have expected you to have it by now. I'm guessing it'll take at least another month till we have it.
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#808 sparkk51

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 12:23 AM

UPDATE:

Hi everyone,

The lab says it is very nearly done; and it is now just in final stages of carrying out the PURIFICATION and QUALITY CONTROL processes to ensure the purity meets the desired specification. :)

There's also some boring paperwork to sort out regards organizing the shipment, but hopefully this won't take too long. ;)


Thanks for the update ScienceGuy, however that's rather disappointing. I would have expected you to have it by now. I'm guessing it'll take at least another month till we have it.


Megatrone always gets the down votes. Come on people, give him a break.

Edited by sparkk51, 06 July 2013 - 12:24 AM.

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#809 progress_

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 01:23 AM

UPDATE:

Hi everyone,

The lab says it is very nearly done; and it is now just in final stages of carrying out the PURIFICATION and QUALITY CONTROL processes to ensure the purity meets the desired specification. :)

There's also some boring paperwork to sort out regards organizing the shipment, but hopefully this won't take too long. ;)


Thanks for the update ScienceGuy, however that's rather disappointing. I would have expected you to have it by now. I'm guessing it'll take at least another month till we have it.


Megatrone always gets the down votes. Come on people, give him a break.


Agreed. Pushing for a little efficiency never hurt anybody.

The faster we iterate through these types of experiments (given that the additional speed of execution does not increase the error rate), the faster we'll find a candidate or a selection of candidates that really gives results.

An argument can be made that the number of potential candidates -> so small that the speed of execution in these experiments is of little importance ... but:
  • The number of actions to make a group buy work are vast and performance requirements + efficiency would help to optimize participant satisfaction which can help recruit current participants to future experiments which would speed up the process of "overall iteration" to find a great candidate for cog. enhancement -> the overall goal.
  • New candidates for cog.enhancement will probably come out faster and faster in the coming years, which makes efficiency a more valued trait as we could blow through new pools of candidates faster.
I'm not criticizing any current organizer, you are all doing a great job. Just sayin' that focusing on efficiency (almost running these things like a business) can have big payoffs over time. At the end of the day we're all looking for the same thing.

Edited by progress_, 06 July 2013 - 01:38 AM.

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#810 Reformed-Redan

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 02:18 AM

I don't see what's the hurry. I don't know if anyone here has dealt with custom synthesis' before or knows how they work. :unsure:
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