6219 replies to this topic

[world33]

Here some info that might interest those that have doubts on the legitimacy of their NSI-189.

According to nyles7 there are two NSI-189 forms: freebase and phosphate. Nyles7 explains as follow:

"The look and taste of the phosphate is totally different from the base. It would be easy to fake the base since it doesn't have a strong taste or odour. I'm not saying that will happen to you, just a possibility. The phosphate salt has a strong, not too pleasant taste."

Nyles7 used to sell both the base initially and then the phosphate. WuhanHenghedaPharm sells the freebase only as far as I know.

I would not recommend using the phosphate form nasally; I have had an hard time taking it sublingually, imagine what it can do to your nostrils.

I tried both nyles7 (phosphate) and WuhanHenghedaPharm (freebase) and I experienced the same short term positive mental effects despite having different taste and consistency; the freebase is fluffier (it reminds me potato starch).

WuhanHenghedaPharm is the only NSI-189 supplier in alibaba so it is not a random supplier as someone sceptically said. They are based in a Technology Park and have a website in English. According to nyles7 there are probably a very limited number of manufacturers of NSI-189. At the end of the day it is a new patented compound and legal actions can occur. I would not be surprised (my assumption only) if many of the online nootropic websites that sell it, source it from the Chinese company itself and resell it with a huge mark-up. That is especially the case if they sell the freebase form which is the only one sold by WHP.

There is no way to find out whether the compound you bought from any supplier is the right one or its purity unless it is independently tested by a reputable external testing company no matter what the source is and where it is based. I guess, only guess, that you cannot compare graphs of tests carried out on the two different forms of NSI-189, freebase and phosphate. I do not have any chemistry background so I might be wrong.

Do not assume that you have the wrong compound just because it does not taste as described in this forum thread considering what I just mentioned above.
If you do not experience anything for days after taking NSI-189 it could be possible that the short term mechanism of action, if there is any, beside the long term adult neurogenesis is not needed by your brain in the first place. As mentioned in my previous posts, I did feel positive effects right from the start and first dose with both NSI-189 sources. Someone might not experience short-term effects but only long-term neurogenesis effects. Just my 2 cents theory.

I doubt Neuralstem will sustain the financial cost of starting international legal actions against a Chinese manufacturer in a Chinese legal system in order to protect its interest on a compound that, even if quite promising, has still not passed all FDA tests/trials and reached the market.

Edited by world33, 30 June 2014 - 04:28 AM.

[FeelsNumbMan]

I'd love to hear more about people's experiences with NSI-189 and MDD. Even though this thread has a whole ton of information (I'm sure), it also has a lot of posts to shift through. I do not know which posts are talking about what, and I'd like it if we were able to have some sort of separate topic or so just for people's experiences with it.

 

I'm really eager to try NSI-189. I've tried quite a few things and there are some things that I'm a bit skeptical about trying because of how long it takes before I see any results. During the time of waiting for it to work, I fear feeling more like shit or just out of it...

 

I've tried tianeptine before and after my first dose, I cannot say whether or not I felt weird because I was just feeling weird that day, or I felt weird because of the tianeptine.

[tolerant]

I'd love to hear more about people's experiences with NSI-189 and MDD. Even though this thread has a whole ton of information (I'm sure), it also has a lot of posts to shift through. I do not know which posts are talking about what, and I'd like it if we were able to have some sort of separate topic or so just for people's experiences with it.

 

I'm really eager to try NSI-189. I've tried quite a few things and there are some things that I'm a bit skeptical about trying because of how long it takes before I see any results. During the time of waiting for it to work, I fear feeling more like shit or just out of it...

 

I've tried tianeptine before and after my first dose, I cannot say whether or not I felt weird because I was just feeling weird that day, or I felt weird because of the tianeptine.

 

This is a very good question. Yesterday I was surprised to find that if you go back in this thread, there are people whose symptoms got worse after taking it. This was my initial experience with it, although I now speculate whether it was due to another substance or incorrect form/dose/vendor of NSI as far as my needs are concerned. I have also communicated with people who experienced deterioration in depression/anxiety while taking NSI. However, there are also stories of near-miraculous recovery.

 

I think it is very hard to truly understand the spread of people's reactions, because some/most people who experience a bad reaction, or for whom it doesn't work after they've placed much hope in it tend to be to depressed to post their reactions, especially in light of all the positive reactions being posted. Similarly, some/most people who use these forums to unearth a treatment for MDD/anxiety and experience a great reaction from NSI also do not share their experience, because a natural reaction to getting better from depression is to stay away from forums dealing with depression, i.e. they are no longer interested in posting and/or make a conscious decision to stay away from anything that reminds them of depression (which is what I would do unless or until I had a total remission and knew that I was bullet-proof).

 

So in the end what you are bound to get for the most part is experience from regulars of these forums, who try multiple substances and just post away in any case.

 

I also can very much relate to you being averse to trying stuff that takes weeks to kick in. When you have treatment-resistant MDD, you eventually find that the repetitive experience of being given drugs for weeks/months just to see if they work generates so much anxiety that it feels better not to try anything at all or to try only those drugs which you will know within a matter of hours or days whether it works or not.

 

I second your suggestion of creating a separate thread for people's experiences with taking NSI for MDD/anxiety. I don't know if you can do polls on this site, but doing it in the form of a poll would result in a greater number of people wiling to share. I haven't sifted through either this thread or the group buy threads, but from rough information that I heard, I believe that there are probably over 100 people on these boards who have tried NSI, maybe significantly more. So getting all their feedback together could be very valuable.

[Nattzor]

Wuhan Hengheda Pharm is not the only supplier. Searching for NSI-189 on alibaba gives you "26 Product(s) from 4 Supplier(s)".

 

Neuralstem might want to try to take Chinese labs down, but it wont work. China does not give a fuck about patents.

[world33]

Wuhan Hengheda Pharm is not the only supplier. Searching for NSI-189 on alibaba gives you "26 Product(s) from 4 Supplier(s)".
 
Neuralstem might want to try to take Chinese labs down, but it wont work. China does not give a fuck about patents.

You are right. When I searched a few weeks ago Wuhan Hengheda Pharm was the only supplier as far as I remember. I wonder how much the other companies would quote. Most of the Alibaba search results are from Wuhan Hengheda Pharm thought; they advertise the same stuff with different keywords most likely for search engine optimization and to increase search traffic. Sometime in Alibaba companies trade the same compounds but not manufacture them. The price would be higher in that case.

Edited by world33, 30 June 2014 - 11:18 AM.

[tolerant]

Yes, until recently HengHeDa was the only supplier on Alibaba. Now I see another supplier offering NSI for $7-8/gram!

Edited by tolerant, 30 June 2014 - 11:20 AM.

[SearchingForAnswers]

Is anybody else taking nsi-189 getting "goopy" eyes? More discharge than normal? It's just something I've noticed but I'm not certain if its the cause.

[PWAIN]

Probably not the real thing unfortunately or for 25Kg amounts. No harm checking tho.

Yes, until recently HengHeDa was the only supplier on Alibaba. Now I see another supplier offering NSI for $7-8/gram!

 

Edited by PWAIN, 30 June 2014 - 12:55 PM.

[DaneV]

Yesterday I was surprised to find that if you go back in this thread, there are people whose symptoms got worse after taking it. This was my initial experience with it, although I now speculate whether it was due to another substance or incorrect form/dose/vendor of NSI as far as my needs are concerned.

 

Are you still on the NSI-189 ? If so, may I ask how its working for you at the moment ?

[tolerant]

 

Yesterday I was surprised to find that if you go back in this thread, there are people whose symptoms got worse after taking it. This was my initial experience with it, although I now speculate whether it was due to another substance or incorrect form/dose/vendor of NSI as far as my needs are concerned.

 

Are you still on the NSI-189 ? If so, may I ask how its working for you at the moment ?

 

 

My experience with NSI is very brief. A number of days ago I took a small dose of freebase NSI from HengHeDa shortly after taking a small dose of coluracetam, also for the first time. At that time it appeared to me that shortly after taking the NSI, my symptoms (depression/anxiety) worsened. Nevertheless, I took another larger dose of NSI together with coluracetam at night, hoping to sleep through any adverse effects. However, my symptoms continued to be significantly worse during the following day or two. As I began to come out of this trough towards my baseline, I took another small dose of coluracetam (believing that NSI was the culprit of deterioration). However, that dose of coluracetam again resulted in worsening symptoms, which persisted for another few days. 

 

Today, I took the phosphate form of NSI sourced from another vendor and noticed no adverse effects. Six hours later I took a second larger dose of the same NSI, again with no ill effects. As I've only taken four doses (three of them 10mg or less), I can't report anything. There are no adverse effects of any kind at the moment. I now tend to believe that the culprit of adverse effects in the first place was the coluracetam. When I feel more confident I will again try the freebase NSI to see how I react to it. If you go back to my recent posts, there's a bit more information there.

[tolerant]

Probably not the real thing unfortunately or for 25Kg amounts. No harm checking tho.

Yes, until recently HengHeDa was the only supplier on Alibaba. Now I see another supplier offering NSI for $7-8/gram!

 

 

Although I MAY have had a bad reaction to NSI sourced from Alibaba, I don't believe they would sell fake NSI. On a Russian chemistry forum I read that the synthesis is very simple and the source materials are cheap. If the company is question can be verified as a large company which produces all sorts of chemicals (and I haven't done any due diligence on that), they would have the economies of scale to set up synthesis of NSI very cheaply. Unless the vendors on Alibaba are scammers using the name of actual reputable Chinese labs.

[jaiho]

Keep the reports coming. Mine will arrive soon.

I'll be taking mine without any other noots or drugs to ensure no interactions. Since we still dont know how it works.

[jefferson]

I'm curious how people are taking NSI-189 on this board. Are you putting it on food or in an empty pill? Or just putting it on your tongue and swallowing it with water? Something else?

[themadscientist]

So here is my feedback of NSI-189:

 

I have been taking it for exactly 20 days.

 

Dosage:

40 mg twice daily 

I mixed both the phosphate from THT and freebase from Alibaba source together in one capsule for the 15 days (split into 20mg each).

*some days i would take it sublingually 

 

Week 1-2:

-I experienced head pressure.

-no cognitive benefits

-no change in mood nor positive or negative (i'm not really depressed to begin with though)

 

Week 2-3:

- head pressure stopped. 

- still no cognitive benefits

- still no change in mood  

 

So overall i haven't experienced any real benefits yet. I know neurogenesis take times, so i'm not really expecting to see any results overnight. I'm going to stop the Alibaba source tomorrow and just take the one from THT. 

 

I'll let you guys know if anything changes.

 

 

 

 

 

[DaneV]

Allthough I still don`t "feel" anything spectaculair since starting the NSI-189, I must say I took the HRSD test today again and my score was 14 instead of 33 the first day I started NSI-189.  Maybe NSI-189 working better then I think, maybe its just the natural fluctuation in my condition , or maybe my wishful thinking influenced my answers on the test. Anyway, I`ll be able to tell in a couple of weeks I guess.

Edited by DaneV, 30 June 2014 - 09:52 PM.

[swolo]

Re: nootropic effects. I don't think intelligence == brain cell count. I thought it was more connections between existing cells, especially in brain regions related to analytical thinking. The hippocampus from what I've read mainly affects long-term memory formation, regulating stress response (via HPA axis), and spatial navigation, stuff that AFAIK isn't measured much by an IQ test (I took WAIS-III a long time ago, did fine even though I was horribly depressed about my life). Any real nootropic effects I think would be totally surprising, and mild. Maybe Phase II will reveal more on this.

 

I've felt significant mood stabilizing effects from NSI-189. I was diagnosed with MDD eight years ago, went through a slew of typical and atypical antidepressants that did nothing for me. This has a similar intensity, onset and length of action as tianeptine to me, but whereas the latter feels like a bit of caffeine, NSI-189 seems to prevent my anxiety (socially and otherwise) from going through the roof, and prevents a negative thought spiral when stressed. This sounds funky, but the few times in the past decade when I've had real fun, I felt I was in a headspace at the top of my head. NSI-189 seems to stimulate that part. This apparent sensing of local brain activity could be total nonsense though, and of course the hippocampus is buried deep near the stem. With extended treatment, I feel like I'm able to work out that happiness/fun part of my brain again, even while not on the drug. It was just so long atrophied.

Edited by swolo, 01 July 2014 - 05:03 AM.

[tolerant]

Swolo, thanks for sharing your experience. Did you find that the effects of NSI-189 came on immediately/soon after the very first administration? How much did you dose and what ROA did you use? 

 

Kind regards,

 

tolerant

[swolo]

Effects were felt ~10 days, taking 40 mg TID. Well, the mild brain buzz was almost immediate, but I didn't really identify it as mildly uplifting until 10 days later (it's not a pure happy pill like MDMA). Measured out powder, administered sublingually for about 20 minutes (until powder was fully dissolved and most of the taste was gone). I switched to 40 mg BID after reading about the inverted U dose response curve.

 

In my first post from several weeks ago talking about the effects, I believe I mentioned improved sleep and some other effects. I'm pretty sure these were all placebo, and I sleep as I did before (not so well). I'm still depressed but this drug has helped significantly. A lot of experiences that I once found devastatingly stressful (social situations, confrontations) are now much more tolerable, and instead of getting worse from such experiences like I did before, I'm starting to adapt.

Edited by swolo, 01 July 2014 - 05:25 AM.

[SearchingForAnswers]

This is about my 3rd day. I have a great deal of fatigue, I mean I'm really, really tired! Might be due to insomnia I've had of late. Kind of up and down, the only other thing I'm taking is tianeptine.

 

But I'm looking at this as a long-term thing. Hopefully I'll feel better and not worse after the 28 day TID course is done.

[SearchingForAnswers]

On my fourth day. Something is different today (maybe placebo), but I feel well. Like things are ok, and I feel awake and alert. Might just be better sleep last night, but it feels like something is just different, and better.

 

I was so in the dumps yesterday, that it's a welcome change. If this keeps up and holds after I'm done, it will be life changing! Ha, hope I'm not just setting myself up for a Placebo effect disappointment.

[nat]

Noticeable improvement in the past 12 days since my T+1wk log (see page 71).

 

Ironically the better the effects get, the less inclined I am to post about it. This is a subset of a general tendency to no longer care about validating my subjectivity with words.

 

Biggest changes since T+1wk:

• Better longterm memory. Repeatedly avoiding ruts by noticing day-to-day progressions of habit that were previously opaque.
• Things that would have sent me into affective death spirals no longer do. A couple days ago a truly stressful event happened, but I got over it within a couple hours. In my pre-NSI-189 state, I suspect it would have messed me up for a few weeks.
• Musical compositional/performative progress is as fast as it was when I was a little kid.
• Vipassana sensations and modes of thought starting to carry over into non-meditative activities.
• Visual reading a little bit better than before. I've always been able to read two or three lines at a time and logically connect them in my head, but now it feels more natural.
• Decrease in situational anxiety starting to catch up to the decrease in general anxiety. This feels analogous to the a-ha moment when I realized that 'biological hunger' and 'desire for food' were distinct phenomena. Now that the anxiety is neurochemically offset by NSI-189's effects through whatever mechanism, I'm able to better assess stressful situations in the moment and be better cognitively prepared for next time.
• No more frustration from repetitive or disorganized aesthetics. This is readily apparent in my musical tendencies -- listening, performing and composing alike -- but also in my feelings toward other people and the uglier features of my environment.
• Dream recall is better every night. Dream content keeps shifting toward actual events that I've experienced in recent days and away from the weird fractal, synesthetic dreams I've had since childhood.
• Traumatic events from the past four years are fading in intensity. Each time I remember them I'm quicker to come to the conclusion that they don't matter. That is, I'm recognizing and rejecting hindsight bias and the availability heuristic when they crop up. Which they do, like, all of the time.

[pi-]

Has anyone come across an experiment that measures the cognitive effect of this substance?

 

It increases hippocampal mass. Hippocampus appears to be responsible for moving short-term memories to long-term(LTP), as well as navigating mazes.

 

Both of these should be pretty easy to measure, just wondering why I haven't seen any such experiment.

 

It seems to be being promoted to counteract depression. How does that work? What is the mechanism?

 

I assume the head pressure that many people report is due to initial hippocampal growth -- not sure how comfortable I feel about enlarging part of my brain. Isn't that going to squash nearby parts? Is nobody worried about this?

Edited by pi-, 03 July 2014 - 11:40 AM.

[tolerant]

Has anyone come across an experiment that measures the cognitive effect of this substance?

 

It increases hippocampal mass. Hippocampus appears to be responsible for moving short-term memories to long-term(LTP), as well as navigating mazes.

 

Both of these should be pretty easy to measure, just wondering why I haven't seen any such experiment.

 

I assume the head pressure that many people report is due to initial hippocampal growth -- not sure how comfortable I feel about enlarging part of my brain. Isn't that going to squash nearby parts? Is nobody worried about this?

 

I am surprised that with all this talk of increasing hippocampal volume, no one has gone and done a volumetric assessment of their hippocampus. I know it's not a routine scan, and it took me some research to find out what it's called. For anyone interested, the protocol required is called "Neuropsych protocol - 3T - including T1 WIP MP2RAGE with segmentation". It's an MRI scan, no radiation is involved. This at least applies to Australia, but I imagine it should be the same anywhere. If your doctor communicates to the radiologist that assessment of the hippocampus is required, then that should leave no doubt.

 

P.S. And as I say in this post (http://www.longecity...458#entry672458), people living in the US (which, I believe, constitutes the majority of users of these forums), probably wouldn't even have to go through any doctors to get this test done.

Edited by tolerant, 03 July 2014 - 11:48 AM.

[jaiho]

I'm worried my NSI has been seized by customs. Been sitting there since the 29th. Bloody Australia.

 

More daily reports, SearchingForAnswers ?

[penisbreath]

I'm worried my NSI has been seized by customs. Been sitting there since the 29th. Bloody Australia.

 

More daily reports, SearchingForAnswers ?

 

It doesn't breach any analogue laws, does it? Unless Neurostem is clamping down ..?

[DaneV]

 

It seems to be being promoted to counteract depression. How does that work? What is the mechanism?

 

I assume the head pressure that many people report is due to initial hippocampal growth -- not sure how comfortable I feel about enlarging part of my brain. Isn't that going to squash nearby parts? Is nobody worried about this?

 

IIRC, There is some evidence that chronic stress hormones (cortisol) cause hippocampal atrophy. Because the hippocampus is involved in the regulation of a healthy stress response (hpa axis), stress hormone levels get further
inbalanced leading to a downward spiral. "Fixing" the hippocampus might break this cycle. But AFAIK this is only a theory and nobody is completely sure at this moment. All we are pretty sure about is that allmost all remedies that work against depression (SSRI`s, SSRE`s, some supplements, physical exercise and now NSI-189) increase neurogenisis in the hippocampus so this theory has some grounds. More so then the "neurotransmitter inbalance" theory that has been common for the past two decades if you ask me.

 

I don`t believe growing your hippocampus is should lead to any problems. Neurogenisis a natural thing that also happens when you exercise or take substances that increase BDNF like SSRI`s. If you`re currently depressed or have been for a while, it is likely that your hippocampus is too small anyway, so growing it might exactly be wat you want.

Edited by DaneV, 03 July 2014 - 01:29 PM.

[mait]

Two australian eBay sellers seem to offer NSI-189:

 

http://www.ebay.com/...=item3a92b9e6ba

http://www.ebay.com/...=item3a92b0cfd4

 

Sadly the prices are insane.

[themadscientist]

Two australian eBay sellers seem to offer NSI-189:

 

http://www.ebay.com/...=item3a92b9e6ba

http://www.ebay.com/...=item3a92b0cfd4

 

Sadly the prices are insane.

 

That's awesome! hahaha. Don't worry, its going to be everywhere soon. The prices will eventually go down to $30 a gram, just like other high end nootropics.

[foreseason]

I assume the head pressure that many people report is due to initial hippocampal growth -- not sure how comfortable I feel about enlarging part of my brain. Isn't that going to squash nearby parts? Is nobody worried about this?

Considering people notice the head pressure/headaches right from the first dose, I doubt they are associated with hippocampal growth. IMO It's more likey they are just side effects of the compound

[Nattzor]

 

Two australian eBay sellers seem to offer NSI-189:

 

http://www.ebay.com/...=item3a92b9e6ba

http://www.ebay.com/...=item3a92b0cfd4

 

Sadly the prices are insane.

 

That's awesome! hahaha. Don't worry, its going to be everywhere soon. The prices will eventually go down to $30 a gram, just like other high end nootropics.

 

 

Nope, it'll be taken down assuming they don't want to get sued (and I'm fairly sure ebay wont allow RCs to be sold much more if things like this continues).