88 replies to this topic

[leftside]

Great thread. I learnt more on here than reading bluelight. I think one has to be very, very, very careful with stims though. Take a look at the threads on bluelight that discuss MDMA, LSD, stims, etc. The MDMA, LSD, etc threads seem reasonably intelligent. The ones discussing stims.... well they all seem like they are on crack....

Good luck medievil. You add some very good commentary on this site. My only advice to you is to kick the body building "cycles" and perhaps focus more on the relaxing side of things and sleep quality. I know I've fallen into the trap of feeling crappy during the day so I "must need more stims" when I really needed to focus more on getting a good nights sleep.

[medievil]

One of my goals here was to discuss all recreational compounds but in a completely differened intelligent matter focussed on the therapeutic potential, ive got another cannabinoid, psychedelic and sero releaser thread but would like to get them going again.

^^I understand your comment but its not just that, its a complete inability to function sometimes i didnt take a stim for weeks and was sleeping 23hours of the day, thats something not normal, please dont confused me with a bluelighter not understanding a normal withdrawal or the effects of not getting good sleep haha:).

I well know the dangers of those substances having been addicted to stims before (reminds me of a ocasion i got paralised on my chair and slowly moved from one to the other side till eventually i fell and banged my head and regained ability to move, this happened twice when i was abusing stimulants and is not a normal side effect of stim abuse, more like a side effect of something underlying i might have but it again sounds ms wise, who knows so far im as healthy as a fish till i get a diagnosis. It seems to be comorbid with shizophrenia at times ive read but ill see, just making sure im OK.

Edited by medievil, 08 February 2013 - 06:44 PM.

[medievil]

I dont know wheter its been mentioned before but ill list a few must have's when playing around with stimulants:

A typical antipsychotic
A benzodiazepine like xanax
Seroquel or mirtazepine to be taken in a low dose in case sleep is needed, i advise long term use of seroquel tough as even the lowest doses made me go shizophrenic the next day. The ap and benzo are in case they induce panic attacks or trigger paranoia, benzo should work for both but the typicals are also highly effective against psychotic symptions induced by stimulants.

For those that have a tendency to abuse, predose your stims put it in capsules and design a dosing schedual and only dose at the time your supposed to dose, its alot easier to say to no to take more that way.

[leftside]

I didn't confuse you with a bluelighter this thread is good.

[brainslugged]

I realize that pseudoephedrine isn't generally recognized as a mental stimulant, but I find that it has moderate stimulant effects when taken with racetams. I don't have experience with any other stims to compare, but it greatly reduces sleepiness and noticeably increases mental energy and slightly decreases agitation and improves mood, but with no effect on ability to concentrate or motivation. It is more stimulating than sulbutiamine, if sulbutiamine counts.

Does anyone else feel the same way?

[medievil]

I like it too but its soo damn weak, wish ephedrine was still available otc. Gives nice tingly feeling.

DMAA and ephedrine are your better options.

[FDA Approved]

I ordered a gram of ethylphenidate somehow inspired by this thread. Most of the other mentioned stimulants are not easily found or at least not as cheap as ethylphenidate and I have had positive results from methylphenidate so it made sense.

[alexburke]

FDA, people at bluelight (drug forum) love the stuff.. Ill admit I liked it more when I was alone doing research on the computer then when I was partying
which is what people seem to be doing with it.. My friends all tried it and loved it while socializing and parting.

[leftside]

Ephedrine is legal in Canada. Each pill in the bottles is 8mg which I find is strong enough for a nice little stimulant. I've taken it sometimes when going out drinking. I find it lasts 2-3 hours which is perfect as I can then sleep.

A few years ago they banned the 25mg pills. I remember trying one of those the first time and thought it resembled amphetamine and couldn't believe it was legal!

[pseudonamed]

I've tried ephedrine, I found that the negative physical effects vs. amount of stimulation were not worth it. Worse than amphetamine.. the amount of ephedrine needed to get a similar amount of energy to the latter made me feel like my heart was gonna explode, couldn't sleep for long long time after. Does ethylphenidate have a similar effect on the body?

[kevinseven11]

Gaba Blockers are stimulants. They are often looked at as dangerous, but I completely disagree. Safe doses are fine with my body.

Edited by kevinseven11, 09 February 2013 - 05:48 PM.

[brainslugged]

I like it too but its soo damn weak, wish ephedrine was still available otc. Gives nice tingly feeling.

DMAA and ephedrine are your better options.

I want to try DMAA. I just need to find a reputable source. I figure I ought to try it before it becomes scheduled (if that will really happen)

Pseudoephedrine gave me a tingly feeling in my legs a few time when I took it without any tolerance, but it doesn't do that anymore. Currently(for a few weeks) I am taking it every day in the form of Zyrtec D, which is 120mg pseudo and 5mg cetirizine (but all released over 12 hrs, so it isn't too strong), since I find the combination is incredibly helpful for allergy problems. The stronger effects are pretty much gone, although it is still noticeable. I have never had the chance to try ephedrine, but it looks like I may be able to get it in the US, so I may try next time I go by a Walgreens. I just hope that the ephedrines aren't killed by the people using them to make meth.

Gaba Blockers are stimulants. They are often looked at as dangerous, but I completely disagree. Safe doses are fine with my body.

That is interesting.

Do you have anxiety? Do you find that they cause [more] anxiety? What kind of GABA blockers are we talking about? Antagonists or inverse agonisits? Selective to GABA A or not? Finally, how did you determine a "safe" dose? Too high doses can cause seizures and be fatal, right?

[pseudonamed]

Anybody tried camfetamine? It is currently legal in the UK but hard to find much info on it. From what accounts I've come across, it sounds like more of a study aid type stim (not very euphoric but good for mild stimulation). it's a "research chemical" so I'm a bit wary without more info on how it works/safety etc.

[medievil]

Ive read about someone combining amphetamine (50%) with ephedrine and found this motivating while amp alone only made him motivated to do things he wanted to do and not had to do. Just an anecdote for ppl that are interested to try.

Ive used camfetamine before its very mild and good as a mild study aid altough last time i tried it i didnt feel a thing.

[medievil]

Received desoxypipradol, mdpv and alphapvp, apvp is a milder version of mdpv and not as addictive, good alternative.

[medievil]

It seems possible to modulate stimulants (minimalise the euphoria and make them more functional, ill reveal how in a few days tried some polypharmacy not sure what did what yet.

Im definatly not hypomanic while therapeutic effects are there.

Baclofen seems essential in blocking craving, inhibiting wanting to take more with the dimished euphoria.

Selegiline would be a good deal what potentiating the da part does for someone, want to to try that in the future.

[leftside]

I've got 5g of MDPV to sell if anyone wants it. Too strong for me....

[medievil]

Its too strong for me too, but apparenatly desoxypipradol with benzo's smooth it out for some reason, on its own its way to crazy for me, its the most crazy stimulant, be aware everyone start with ordering small doses. Also i use it with antipsychotics as precaution (amisulpiride).

[medievil]

Whats the cheapest DMAA source?

[medievil]

Thirty concerta's with 36mg can be solled from seathern europe for 140 euro's, its strong dose this and concertra is quite expensive, contact me and ill get you in touch with the guy.

[medievil]

I've tried ephedrine, I found that the negative physical effects vs. amount of stimulation were not worth it. Worse than amphetamine.. the amount of ephedrine needed to get a similar amount of energy to the latter made me feel like my heart was gonna explode, couldn't sleep for long long time after. Does ethylphenidate have a similar effect on the body?

No its entirely differened, it feels very dopaminergic, ephedrine may be good to augment stims tough.

[airplanepeanuts]

I took Modafinil today which makes me quite social. Last time I took it I got chest pain, which I also got after a couple a days on Ritalin (I never have any trouble with my heart otherwise including exercise) Today was totally fine, I think because I have been taking Ubiquinol for a couple of weeks now.

Just if somebody has a similar problem.

[medievil]

Does modafinil cause vasoconstriction or something? dont see why it would cause angina.

[airplanepeanuts]

Chest pain is a side effect of Ritalin according to wikipedia. There are reports of it for modafinil.

I don't think I have angina by the way.

[medievil]

Chest pain is a side effect of Ritalin according to wikipedia. There are reports of it for modafinil.

I don't think I have angina by the way.

but i cant imagine moda having cardiovascular side effects? its not a real stimulant

[Dissolvedissolve]

but i cant imagine moda having cardiovascular side effects? its not a real stimulant

It has a whole lot of mechanisms. It seems to be a dopamine agonist and reuptake inhibitor. Through its actions on orexins, it seems to be pro-norepinephrine as well. This is just to say that it's not shocking for it to have stimulant-like side effects even if its pharmacology is a bit more indirect and complex.

[machete234]

I ordered a gram of ethylphenidate somehow inspired by this thread. Most of the other mentioned stimulants are not easily found or at least not as cheap as ethylphenidate and I have had positive results from methylphenidate so it made sense.

Put it in capsules and dont sniff it because it destroys the mucus membranes in your nose.
Id make 20mg capsules and take each one after the peak is over.

If you cant guess how much 20mg is you need a scale with some people here swallowing 100mg of noopept and thinking its 10mg I think I should say this.
Swallow 10x too much of a stimulant and you have a real problem its not like racetams.

Anyways the oral dosing makes also sense because the duration of EPH is allready short and it gets shorter by insufflating.

--------
Also the wil be a new chemical soon that is a ritalin analogue and that has a long half life it seems
Very untested in humans of course so waiting a bit is wise

http://www.bluelight...methylphenidate

Edited by machete234, 09 March 2013 - 10:01 PM.

[3AlarmLampscooter]

Can anyone offer more insight as to possible neurotoxicity from 2-FA and 2-FMA?

They appear to be quite interesting as "functional" stimulants if safe.

[Isochroma]

In desperation over the years at times when nootropics were not quite keeping me awake during the day, I researched safe stimulants (not caffeine) and found several that fit the bill - including Amfonelic acid and Prolintane. Have not tried them yet. This post will have the data on Amfonelic acid only because from the many I have researched it's the safest and fits the bill best.

It is able to mobilize Dopamine from non-vesicular storage pools and can provide stimulant effects even after other stimulants such as amphetamines have completely depleted vesicular dopamine. It is very safe and is available to purchase online now though currently out of stock. It is also unregulated in all countries of this World:

Amfonelic acid - Wikipedia

CAS# 15180-02-6

Amfonelic acid (AFA; WIN 25,978; Oxaprozin) is a drug used in scientific studies. It was discovered while researchers were investigating novel antibiotics.^[1] In studies it proved to be a potent and highly selective dopamine reuptake inhibitor (DRI) in rat brain preparations.^[2][3] A study found a moderately long half-life of approximately 12 hours and a dopaminergic potency approximately 50 fold that of methylphenidate in rat brain preparations.^[4]

See also[edit]

• Nalidixic acid (WIN 18,320)
• Oxolinic acid

References[edit]

• ^ US patent 3590036, "Naphthyridine-3-carboxylic Acids, Their Derivatives and Preparation Thereof"
  
• ^ Fuller, R. W.; Perry, K. W.; Bymaster, F. P.; Wong, D. T. (1978). "Comparative effects of pemoline, amfonelic acid and amphetamine on dopamine uptake and release in vitro and on brain 3,4-dihydroxyphenylacetic acid concentration in spiperone-treated rats.". Journal of Pharmacy and Pharmacology 30 (3): 197–198. PMID 24701.
  
• ^ McMillen, B. A.; Shore, P. A. (1978). "Amfonelic acid, a non-amphetamine stimulant, has marked effects on brain dopamine metabolism but not noradrenaline metabolism: Association with differences in neuronal storage systems". Journal of Pharmacy and Pharmacology 30 (7): 464–466. PMID 27622.
  
• ^ Izenwasser, S.; Werling, L. L.; Cox, B. M. (1990). "Comparison of the effects of cocaine and other inhibitors of dopamine uptake in rat striatum, nucleus accumbens, olfactory tubercle, and medial prefrontal cortex". Brain Research 520 (1–2): 303–309. doi:10.1016/0006-8993(90)91719-W. PMID 2145054.

Discussions:

Reddit: Amfonelic Acid, anyone - Nootropics

Reddit: The Holy Grail of Bizarrely Psychoactive, Accidental Psychotropics - Amfonelic Acid

Bluelight - amfonelic acid

Bluelight - Amfonelic acid (2)

Bluelight - Amfonelic acid II

Bluelight - Toxicity of Amfonelic acid

Studies:

The effects of amfonelic acid and some other central stimulants on mouse striatal tyramine, dopamine and homovanillic acid [Full PDF free]

Similarity Between (+)-Amphetamine and Amfonelic Acid [Free Full PDF]

Other workers [12,14] showed that although AFA and AMPH released dopamine, they promoted mobilization of dopamine from different pools; AFA preferentially releases the older stored catecholamine while AMPH is dependent on the newly synthesized transmitter.

Further, AFA enhances impulse-induced flow [14]. Another intriguing difference between the two stimulants has also been reported [1]. AFA does not produce aggregate group toxicity in mice, which has been shown for AMPH by many investigators [1, 5, 9].

Prices:

As the Mercedes-Benz of stimulants and due to its difficult synthesis it is very pricey: NewMind: Amfonelic Acid - 1 Gram $88.88 [Out of stock as of posting date]

Edited by Isochroma-Reborn, 19 July 2013 - 04:38 AM.

[Isochroma]

The cleanest stimulant of all is internal dopaminergic rebound.

I was able to achieve this every day for months on end using a low dose of NMDA antagonist just before bed.

30mg DXM [Dextromethorphan, available in cough syrups at your local drugstore] was enough - within the prescribed dose range on the label too

After a couple months daily use at that dose - no tolerance to the rebound occurred so no dose-escalation was needed - side effects particular to DXM - not the next-day dopaminergic rebound - decided the case for discontinuation. Side effects were dry lungs and joints but I'm vulnerable to those problems anyway. Most would never notice them as they were mild.

NMDA antagonists are amazing drugs - single doses can produce days or even a week of rebound antidepressant+stimulant effects. Some like DXM also produce dopaminergic rebound, while others like MXE [Methoxetamine] produce serotonergic rebound along with potentiation due to complex downstream effects that are barely understood.

The cleanest, longest-lasting [up to a week though a few days after each dose is more typical], slowest-to-develop tolerance stimulant high is always natural rebound and NMDA antagonists are the best and most available way to get there.

Edited by Isochroma-Reborn, 19 July 2013 - 04:35 AM.