23 replies to this topic

[hav]

Being inspired by the elderly feline c60 thread, I thought I'd also start a thread covering the details of our younger cat who is also now taking c60.

My cat's name is Emmie. Here are some of her current vital statistics:

Breed: Bombay
Sex: female
Born: 3/9/2010
Weight: 14 lbs (6 kgs)
Length: 32 inches (nose to end of tail); tail: 10 inches
Height: 15 inches (front paw to top of shoulder)
C60 dosage: 1/2 tsp (2.5 ml) of .8 mg/ml c60/oo = 2 mg c60
C60 Start Date: 11/1/2012
loading dosage: 1 month of daily dosing
maintenance cycle: same dosage 1 time a week.

We started her on c60 on November 1, 2010 when she was 2 years and 8 months old. The initial dose was daily using 1/2 tsp of solution in with the dry feed she likes, which is Purina Fancy Feast chicken & turkey. She doesn't seem to go as much for the wet canned foods except to lick them a bit before abandoning the bowl. So I drizzle the oil over a 1/2 cup of dry meal in a 1 cup measuring glass which I shake up to evenly coat all the meal with oil before putting it into her bowl. I do put a little dry meal on the bottom of the bowl before putting the oil coated in, mainly to keep the bowl from getting too greasy, and also top it off with a little dry meal on top. She normally eats about 3/4 of a cup of dry meal a day but I noticed she slows down a bit when its oil coated. She seems to cut back her eating to about a 1/2 cup a day when its oil coated.

I should also mention we started Emmie on Resveratrol/Astragalus supplementation on September 1, 2011 when she was 1 year and six months of age. For that, we did weekly cycling between Resveratrol and Astragalus, similar what my wife and I do for ourselves. This I do also by coating the dry meal with the powder. Details on that are as follows:

Resveratrol: 215 mg (a 50% product)
Astragalus: 180 mg (70% standardized extract)

We did give her a break from supplementation between June and November, but resumed it when we started her on c60/oo in November. Didn't notice any effects during the break.

Emmie has always been a cat with a surplus of personality. More so than the Persians we had before her. Sometimes I think she's more like a dog than a cat because she loves to fetch and be petted, comes when we call her, constantly follows us around the house, seldom stays in a room if we're not in it, plays hockey with her food, and stuff like that. She used to gallop around the house in the mornings like a mad kitty but we've been seeing less of that in the last six months and a little more sleep time. She sleeps about 14 hours a day now which my wife thinks is typical. I don't recall seeing any increase in activity when she started with c60/oo but i wonder if the prior supplementation might have stretched her kitty-hood out a bit. My wife seems to think so based on previous cats she's owned but this breed is new to her. Emmie certainly is the largest, longest, and heaviest cat she has ever owned but seems not to be fat or overweight in any way. Emmie did have a twin sister named Ellie and we're kicking around to idea of trying to track her down through the vet in Michigan we got Emmie from to see if their stats have diverged much. Emmie, btw, is strictly an indoor cat and was spayed and front-declawed at 6 months of age.

One of my wife's prior cats died of feline leukemia but most of them died of renal failure. Our prior 2 Persians were her longest lived cats who both lived to age 13. We're hoping Emmie's near life-long supplementation has a positive impact on her longevity.

I'm attaching a picture I just took.

Howard

Attached Files

•  IMG_8332_emmie_med.jpg   592.23KB   34 downloads

[AdamI]

Edit* nevermind 1st part Will be fun following ur cat.
Cat can live long my cousins cat lived to reach over 20 years, ur cat seem to have a lust for life surely it will live long...

Edited by AdamI, 07 January 2013 - 09:06 PM.

[niner]

That's a pretty big cat, Howard. Does she tolerate that much 50% resveratrol? Maybe she was getting amped up on "the other 50%", which has shown psychotropic effects in humans.

[hav]

That's a pretty big cat, Howard. Does she tolerate that much 50% resveratrol? Maybe she was getting amped up on "the other 50%", which has shown psychotropic effects in humans.

Actually, I just looked at the bottle and its not even 50%. It says Resveratrol 1250 mg (serving size 2 capsules) (standardized to 20% trans-resveratrol). It's what I first took myself before I learned better here. I see it also says exp 2/12/2013. Looks like its almost time to toss it and move her to the good stuff. And maybe cut the dosage back to around 100 mg. Anyway, I didn't notice any changes in behavior when she started with it or before or after her almost 6 month break.

One thing I forgot to mention is that she really seems to like the astragalus. In fact she kind of started herself on that. I used to take Planetary Herbs full spectrum Astragalus that comes in tablets and was in the habit of putting my morning supps out at night by the bathroom sink before going to bed. Till I found the Astragalus tablets on the floor all chewed up one morning. That's what gave me the idea of giving it to her. When I switched to the 70% extract, I let her polish off my supply of the old stuff. But I've since run out of the old stuff and switched her to the 70% extract I take, which she still seems to eat more of than resveratrol dusted meal.

Howard

[AgeVivo]

Wow, you're starting a very long experiment. For anyone with young cats or dogs (or other long lived animals), I would rather wait say 2 more years that we have concrete results in mice. If c60oo doesn't work, you'd better give (/keep) your pet (/for) something else (such as metoprolol, as Spindler's results suggest; +10% lifespan in mice but he think that it is robust with a large range of doses)

Edited by AgeVivo, 07 January 2013 - 11:03 PM.

[stephen_b]

Being inspired by the elderly feline c60 thread, I thought I'd also start a thread covering the details of our younger cat who is also now taking c60.

My cat's name is Emmie. Here are some of her current vital statistics:

Breed: Bombay
Sex: female
Born: 3/9/2010
Weight: 14 lbs (6 kgs)
Length: 32 inches (nose to end of tail); tail: 10 inches
Height: 15 inches (front paw to top of shoulder)
C60 dosage: 1/2 tsp (2.5 ml) of .8 mg/ml c60/oo = 2 mg c60
C60 Start Date: 11/1/2012
loading dosage: 1 month of daily dosing
maintenance cycle: same dosage 1 time a week.

We started her on c60 on November 1, 2010 when she was 2 years and 8 months old. The initial dose was daily using 1/2 tsp of solution in with the dry feed she likes, which is Purina Fancy Feast chicken & turkey.
[snip]

I think you mean you started her on C60 in 2012, not 2010, otherwise the dates don't make sense.

One concern I have is that you might be confounding your C60 test with a poor diet. The main ingredient in your feed is rice, and cats are carnivores, even more so than dogs.

[hav]

Being inspired by the elderly feline c60 thread, I thought I'd also start a thread covering the details of our younger cat who is also now taking c60.

My cat's name is Emmie. Here are some of her current vital statistics:

Breed: Bombay
Sex: female
Born: 3/9/2010
Weight: 14 lbs (6 kgs)
Length: 32 inches (nose to end of tail); tail: 10 inches
Height: 15 inches (front paw to top of shoulder)
C60 dosage: 1/2 tsp (2.5 ml) of .8 mg/ml c60/oo = 2 mg c60
C60 Start Date: 11/1/2012 (correct)
loading dosage: 1 month of daily dosing
maintenance cycle: same dosage 1 time a week.

We started her on c60 on November 1, 2010 2012 when she was 2 years and 8 months old. The initial dose was daily using 1/2 tsp of solution in with the dry feed she likes, which is Purina Fancy Feast chicken & turkey.
[snip]

I think you mean you started her on C60 in 2012, not 2010, otherwise the dates don't make sense.

One concern I have is that you might be confounding your C60 test with a poor diet. The main ingredient in your feed is rice, and cats are carnivores, even more so than dogs.

Ooops, you're right. I got it right in the summary list but mistyped it in the text below it. Sorry about that.

Howard

[hav]

...
One concern I have is that you might be confounding your C60 test with a poor diet. The main ingredient in your feed is rice, and cats are carnivores, even more so than dogs.

That sounds logical. Fwiw, the manufacturer seems to disagree on the page where they post the ingredients and analysis. More importantly, my cat disagrees. Maybe its a breed thing? On the other hand, could it be related to the fact that she's always acted like a dog?

Howard

[Adaptogen]

What is the proper dosage of resveratrol for felines? I have seen some people recommended 1+ grams...

My cat is around 14 and has started to show slight signs of disease/kidney problems, so I have been giving her 400mg 98% resveratrol a few times a week

[Mind]

What is the proper dosage of resveratrol for felines? I have seen some people recommended 1+ grams...

My cat is around 14 and has started to show slight signs of disease/kidney problems, so I have been giving her 400mg 98% resveratrol a few times a week

According to a poster in the other cat thread, resv might be BAD for kidney function.

[hav]

What is the proper dosage of resveratrol for felines? I have seen some people recommended 1+ grams...

My cat is around 14 and has started to show slight signs of disease/kidney problems, so I have been giving her 400mg 98% resveratrol a few times a week

I read through the studies linked in Mind's elderly cat thread and I'm also sticking with resveratrol with my younger feline. The resveratrol dosage she's been getting as of February 1, 2013 is now 100 mg/day of 98% resveratrol, one week on followed by 1 week off with 1/2 teaspoon of c60/oo (2mg c60) once every 2 weeks during the resveratrol weeks. That's a way lower resveratrol dose than the 5 grams/day used in the studies that suggested possible negative kidney effects in much smaller animals. I've been mixing the resveratrol into one of the same meals as the c60/oo, btw, which I suspect is suboptimal for resveratrol absorption while the olive oil is present in the digestive tract too... now that I think about it I'll probably leave the resveratrol out of that particular meal in the future.

Howard

[d4shing]

What is the proper dosage of resveratrol for felines? I have seen some people recommended 1+ grams...

My cat is around 14 and has started to show slight signs of disease/kidney problems, so I have been giving her 400mg 98% resveratrol a few times a week

I read through the studies linked in Mind's elderly cat thread and I'm also sticking with resveratrol with my younger feline. The resveratrol dosage she's been getting as of February 1, 2013 is now 100 mg/day of 98% resveratrol, one week on followed by 1 week off with 1/2 teaspoon of c60/oo (2mg c60) once every 2 weeks during the resveratrol weeks. That's a way lower resveratrol dose than the 5 grams/day used in the studies that suggested possible negative kidney effects in much smaller animals. I've been mixing the resveratrol into one of the same meals as the c60/oo, btw, which I suspect is suboptimal for resveratrol absorption while the olive oil is present in the digestive tract too... now that I think about it I'll probably leave the resveratrol out of that particular meal in the future.

Howard

How would smaller animals than a cat be eating 5 grams per day of resveratrol? The average mouse weighs like 20 grams. Are you sure you don't mean mg/kg or somesuch? I'm only taking 100mg/day of resv and I probably weigh a lot more than your cat.

[niner]

How would smaller animals than a cat be eating 5 grams per day of resveratrol? The average mouse weighs like 20 grams. Are you sure you don't mean mg/kg or somesuch? I'm only taking 100mg/day of resv and I probably weigh a lot more than your cat.

They don't exactly eat it; they are force-fed. When you give an animal enough of any compound, bad things happen. That's basically how toxicologists look for toxicity- they raise the dose until they see something bad happen. hav said he was giving his cat 100mg/day.

[hav]

What is the proper dosage of resveratrol for felines? I have seen some people recommended 1+ grams...

My cat is around 14 and has started to show slight signs of disease/kidney problems, so I have been giving her 400mg 98% resveratrol a few times a week

I read through the studies linked in Mind's elderly cat thread and I'm also sticking with resveratrol with my younger feline. The resveratrol dosage she's been getting as of February 1, 2013 is now 100 mg/day of 98% resveratrol, one week on followed by 1 week off with 1/2 teaspoon of c60/oo (2mg c60) once every 2 weeks during the resveratrol weeks. That's a way lower resveratrol dose than the 5 grams/day used in the studies that suggested possible negative kidney effects in much smaller animals. I've been mixing the resveratrol into one of the same meals as the c60/oo, btw, which I suspect is suboptimal for resveratrol absorption while the olive oil is present in the digestive tract too... now that I think about it I'll probably leave the resveratrol out of that particular meal in the future.

Howard

How would smaller animals than a cat be eating 5 grams per day of resveratrol? The average mouse weighs like 20 grams. Are you sure you don't mean mg/kg or somesuch? I'm only taking 100mg/day of resv and I probably weigh a lot more than your cat.

Sorry but I couldn't relocate the 5 gram/day study. It was mentioned by Maxwatt in his post but not linked. Fwiw I was able to relocate this one, however, that delivered 1 gram/kg per day to rats by gavage but it found very little toxicity at that level. They also tested with dogs up to 1.2 grams/kg/day:
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/21939727

To characterize the subchronic oral toxicity of resveratrol, CD rats received daily gavage doses of 0, 200, 400, or 1000 mg resveratrol/kg/day, and beagle dogs received daily capsule doses of 0, 200, 600, or 1200 mg resveratrol/kg/day for 90 days. Resveratrol induced only minimal toxicity, consisting of dose-related reductions in body weight gain in female rats and both sexes of dogs, and a statistically significant increase in bilirubin levels in rats at the 1000 mg/kg/day dose. Clinical observations, hematology, ophthalmology, neurotoxicity evaluations (functional observational batteries), organ weights, and gross pathology provided no biologically significant evidence of resveratrol toxicity in either species. In rats, the high dose of resveratrol reduced the incidence of cardiomyopathy; no other microscopic changes were seen.

Howard

Edited by hav, 26 February 2013 - 06:11 AM.

[hav]

Here's another high dose resveratrol rat study that went up to 3 grams/kg/day, probably also delivered by gavage, but it concerns liver toxicity:
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/15748624

Male and female CD rats were treated with high doses of resveratrol (0.3, 1.0 and 3.0 gm/kg/day) for a period of 28 days.
...
In summary, at lower doses of resveratrol there are few significant changes in gene expression whereas the modulation of liver genes at the high dose of resveratrol may implicate the potential toxicity observed.

Howard

[YOLF]

Still giving it to your cat?

[hav]

Still giving it to your cat?

Yes. Here's an update on her stats as of 5/27/2013... she seems to have gained a pound over the winter:

Breed: Bombay
Sex: female
Born: 3/9/2010
Weight: 15 lbs (6.8 kgs)
Length: 32 inches (nose to end of tail); tail: 10 inches
Height: 15 inches (front paw to top of shoulder)
C60 dosage: 1/2 tsp (2.5 ml) of .8 mg/ml c60/oo = 2 mg c60
C60 Start Date: 11/1/2012
loading dosage: 1 month of daily dosing
maintenance cycle: same dosage 1 time every two weeks (since February 2013)

Other supplements:

Resveratrol: 98%, 100 mg/day every other week during c60/oo on-week.
Astragalus: 70% polysaccharides, 100 mg/day every other week during c60/oo off-week
Epithalon: 1mg once every other week during c60/oo off-week (since April 2013)

The main change since my last report in February 2013 is addition of Epithalon once every other week during the c60/oo off-week. I only added that because I take it myself during that time slot and mix up a weeks worth at a time... and decided I might as well to rinse out my little mixing cup (from an old bottle of cough syrup) and medicine dropper into her water dish. I'm guessing the dosage she's getting which seems to be less than a drop of residual liquid that won't drop or shake out of the cup or medicine dropper on its own without washing it out with a little extra distilled water. The actual mixed concentration I take is 2.5 mg/drop so I'm estimating she's getting around 1 mg. I have not noticed any unusual activity on her part, day or night, since adding that. Perhaps its responsible for the small weight gain.

I've changed my thinking, btw, about administering resveratrol in the same meal as olive oil. I now think it might be quite optimal. That was after I learned that resveratrol was soluble in olive oil and reason that it might have better bio availability if absorbed via the lymphatic system.

Howard

Edited by hav, 27 May 2013 - 08:46 PM.

[YOLF]

How do you give the cat her C60?

I've found putting it in my cat's whiskers or thereabouts works very well. He immediately consumes it as a side effect of cleaning it off and does a very thorough job. Definitely easier than gavage and I don't see any residue left on his whisker area like I'd see on his paw meaning he probably gets more of it when he is more motivated to clean it off. I might even try giving him his anti-biotics this way.

[cATsE]

One thing I forgot to mention is that she really seems to like the astragalus. In fact she kind of started herself on that. I used to take Planetary Herbs full spectrum Astragalus that comes in tablets and was in the habit of putting my morning supps out at night by the bathroom sink before going to bed. Till I found the Astragalus tablets on the floor all chewed up one morning. That's what gave me the idea of giving it to her. When I switched to the 70% extract, I let her polish off my supply of the old stuff. But I've since run out of the old stuff and switched her to the 70% extract I take, which she still seems to eat more of than resveratrol dusted meal.

Howard

Not surprised to hear that, it's probably THE #1 herb to give your cat. I've started to give it to mine after he had a stroke (not a TIA) and then learned that the most common cause for strokes in otherwise healthy cats (no kidney or heart problems) happens to be high blood pressure. Astragalus fixes that.

I would be careful with resveratrol though for it may have the opposite effect. Also note that LEF has a supplement for cats called 'Cat Mix'. http://www.lef.org/V...rch&key=Cat Mix Now they used to have two varieties of this, one with and one without reservaratol, but they have discontinued the resveratrol version for several years now, wonder why..?

I give my cat full spectrum Astragalus from Paradise Herbs by the way, these are very small capsules and he gets 1/5th of the recommended dose, which seems a lot for a 12 lbs cat, but since metabolism is a lot faster in cats, this is about the right amount.

Thinking about giving him c60 too, but first I want to be sure it doesn't raise blood pressure, so I'm first going to take it myself for a couple of weeks and see what happens.

[stephen_b]

I've changed my thinking, btw, about administering resveratrol in the same meal as olive oil. I now think it might be quite optimal. That was after I learned that resveratrol was soluble in olive oil and reason that it might have better bio availability if absorbed via the lymphatic system.

Howard

That's been my opinion for a while too. Using blood plasma concentration as an indicator of bioavailability for primarily oil soluble resveratrol does not make much sense to me.

[YOLF]

One thing I forgot to mention is that she really seems to like the astragalus. In fact she kind of started herself on that. I used to take Planetary Herbs full spectrum Astragalus that comes in tablets and was in the habit of putting my morning supps out at night by the bathroom sink before going to bed. Till I found the Astragalus tablets on the floor all chewed up one morning. That's what gave me the idea of giving it to her. When I switched to the 70% extract, I let her polish off my supply of the old stuff. But I've since run out of the old stuff and switched her to the 70% extract I take, which she still seems to eat more of than resveratrol dusted meal.

Howard

Not surprised to hear that, it's probably THE #1 herb to give your cat. I've started to give it to mine after he had a stroke (not a TIA) and then learned that the most common cause for strokes in otherwise healthy cats (no kidney or heart problems) happens to be high blood pressure. Astragalus fixes that.

I would be careful with resveratrol though for it may have the opposite effect. Also note that LEF has a supplement for cats called 'Cat Mix'. http://www.lef.org/V...rch&key=Cat Mix Now they used to have two varieties of this, one with and one without reservaratol, but they have discontinued the resveratrol version for several years now, wonder why..?

I give my cat full spectrum Astragalus from Paradise Herbs by the way, these are very small capsules and he gets 1/5th of the recommended dose, which seems a lot for a 12 lbs cat, but since metabolism is a lot faster in cats, this is about the right amount.

Thinking about giving him c60 too, but first I want to be sure it doesn't raise blood pressure, so I'm first going to take it myself for a couple of weeks and see what happens.

Don't smaller animals generally require more per kg? Or am I misunderstanding you?

[niner]

Thinking about giving him c60 too, but first I want to be sure it doesn't raise blood pressure, so I'm first going to take it myself for a couple of weeks and see what happens.

A lot of people using c60 have reported that their bp hasn't changed. I don't remember if I mentioned it or not, but my bp is fine. There have been one or two reports of increased bp, but I don't think these were measured values. I don't know of any obvious mechanistic reason for c60-oo to increase bp. And then there's the issue of you and I not being cats...

[hav]

How do you give the cat her C60?

I've found putting it in my cat's whiskers or thereabouts works very well. He immediately consumes it as a side effect of cleaning it off and does a very thorough job. Definitely easier than gavage and I don't see any residue left on his whisker area like I'd see on his paw meaning he probably gets more of it when he is more motivated to clean it off. I might even try giving him his anti-biotics this way.

I've been just mixing it into her food. Usually the dry food she likes but last week I tried coaxing her into a moist canned food which the c60 mixes into rather nicely. She doesn't seem to care for the food itself but licked off all juice including the c60/oo.

Update: About 3 or 4 weeks ago Emmie got her annual shots at the vet and developed a cough/sneeze a few days after returning home. The vet indicated that reaction to the shot happens occasionally. I thought I'd mention it as her c60/resveratrol/astragalus regimen did not avert it and this was the first instance of her ever getting sick. A liquid antibiotic (Clavomax) was prescribed on July 1 and I administered it at a rate of 1 ml 2x a day with a medicine dropper using cryo's technique of a few drops on the lips and the rest into the mouth as she opened up to lick her lips. She never ran away as I approached but did resist even though she didn't seem to hate the taste. I could just hear her thinking, "The indignity of it all!" Just finished up the bottle and she hasn't coughed in a number of days.

Howard

Edited by hav, 17 July 2013 - 06:01 PM.

[hav]

Oh, another thing. The vet weighed Emmie at 15.5 lbs and suggested I cut back a little on her food. So I'm cutting back a bit by not making sure her bowl is full at night... just putting 5/8 of a cup of her usual dry food into her dish 1st thing in the morning and that's it and I'm now finding it totally empty in the morning. Previously, we usually kept her dish full around the clock adding 3/4 of a cup at a time. She hasn't complained by meowing at night but the antibiotics she was on may have quelled her appetite a bit... guess I'll have to play it by ear and see how it goes now that the prescription is all used up.

Howard