38 replies to this topic

[Reformed-Redan]

Wondering if anyone knows a really strong natural supplement for anxiety. I'm taking Zoloft and tried Buspar with no avail. Zoloft took the edge off; but, is there anything that will turn the notch down even more? I don't want to get into benzo's. I also don't really want to affect the GABA receptors with Valerian or Ashwaganda. Any new findings?

[norepinephrine]

Check the anxiety thread that ScienceGuy put together in the Mental Health subsection. Best resource I've seen on here.

[Reformed-Redan]

Check the anxiety thread that ScienceGuy put together in the Mental Health subsection. Best resource I've seen on here.

Yeah, I've checked it. Most of those herbs I've given a try and just reordered some Rhodhiola and Bacopa. Might combine the two and see the outcome. So far I need something on par as benzos but without the memory imparment. I've seen some studies where there were some herbs that had comparible efficiency after a week, just forgot them. Anyone?

[Galaxyshock]

Ashwagandha + Gotu Kola

Passion Flower and Kava are something to consider too..

Edited by Galaxyshock, 03 March 2013 - 09:00 AM.

[xsiv1]

Ashwagandha + Gotu Kola

Passion Flower and Kava are something to consider too..

All downregulate Gaba although Kava is now up for debate. Some anecdotal reports say that after consuming some good/pure kavalactones for a lengthier period of time, their tolerance was actually reduced meaning they didn't need the same amount of Kava Kava to get the desired effects.

I'm not sure if honokiol (nice anxiolytic) works through Gaba pathways. I'd have to check again.

Edited by xsiv1, 08 March 2013 - 03:28 PM.

[medievil]

Magnolia bark for sure

All downregulate Gaba although Kava is now up for debate.

Source? (eventually ppl complaining of tolerance).

[xsiv1]

Magnolia bark for sure

All downregulate Gaba although Kava is now up for debate.

Source? (eventually ppl complaining of tolerance).

For which lol? Ashwagandha, Gotu Kola, or Kava? I've heard paradise kava and nakamal are of the most reputable sources.

Edited by xsiv1, 08 March 2013 - 03:44 PM.

[xsiv1]

I'd have to say that L-theanine http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC2726695/ and Bacopa http://www.wellnessr..._functionality/should both be on your lists of must haves. Both are subtle but I know that Suntheanine can be used in quite large doses and is considered GRAS. Tolerance is an issue but no signs of dependence. I'd personally cycle any and all of your anxiolytics. Magnesium L-Threonate is one of my faves currently. But just because something has an affinity for Gaba receptors, doesn't mean you'll be left crippled neurologically. Just use them sporadically and with due diligence to reap benefits and minimize risk.

[Galaxyshock]

Ashwagandha + Gotu Kola

Passion Flower and Kava are something to consider too..

All downregulate Gaba

Yet Gotu Kola for example never gets one in trouble. I think its main anxiolytic effect is actually through blocking cholecystokinin. People make stupid conclusions about herbal anxiolytics "it's GABA-agonist => it's like taking benzos" when there are actually various mechanisms how they work.

[medievil]

Do you guys think its a good idea to continue in my thread, wanted to keep this central or do you guys want a seperate one for herbs, suddenly this thread popped up lol.

I dont think ppl should catagorise things as "herbal" or "synthetic" as it doesnt matter, what matters is the effects, and side effects etc.

[xsiv1]

Ashwagandha + Gotu Kola

Passion Flower and Kava are something to consider too..

All downregulate Gaba

Yet Gotu Kola for example never gets one in trouble. I think its main anxiolytic effect is actually through blocking cholecystokinin. People make stupid conclusions about herbal anxiolytics "it's GABA-agonist => it's like taking benzos" when there are actually various mechanisms how they work.

I'm in agreement, but the OP stated that he didn't want anxiolytics that modulate Gaba in some way. Taurine as an example is a fabulous amino acid yet operates through Gaba pathways in some fashion. Will it get someone in trouble? Doubtful to say the least. Bodybuilders have been taking it in grams/day for years without ill effect and this has dated back to the 70's. Yet, other's "warn" people of it's undesirable use as an anxiolytic over the long-term. I've always been of the mindset that cycling supplements or nootropics at varying intervals is best anyways since the body has an uncanny ability to adapt to all kinds of assault.

[Reformed-Redan]

Do you guys think its a good idea to continue in my thread, wanted to keep this central or do you guys want a seperate one for herbs, suddenly this thread popped up lol.

I dont think ppl should catagorise things as "herbal" or "synthetic" as it doesnt matter, what matters is the effects, and side effects etc.

No, I think there is a big difference between herbal and synthetic. Especially with side effects. I'd rather be dependant on a herbal supplement (If that's even possible) than on some synthetic derivatives.

I'd have to say that L-theanine http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC2726695/ and Bacopa http://www.wellnessr..._functionality/should both be on your lists of must haves. Both are subtle but I know that Suntheanine can be used in quite large doses and is considered GRAS. Tolerance is an issue but no signs of dependence. I'd personally cycle any and all of your anxiolytics. Magnesium L-Threonate is one of my faves currently. But just because something has an affinity for Gaba receptors, doesn't mean you'll be left crippled neurologically. Just use them sporadically and with due diligence to reap benefits and minimize risk.

I already got a new pack of Bacopa. Stuffs really good for anxiety overall. I don't care much for the lower dopamine effects it may have. The thanine is also good stuff. Haven't tried Magnesium L-Theonate. Though the best choice for anxiety is CBT...

Ashwagandha + Gotu Kola

Passion Flower and Kava are something to consider too..

All downregulate Gaba

Yet Gotu Kola for example never gets one in trouble. I think its main anxiolytic effect is actually through blocking cholecystokinin. People make stupid conclusions about herbal anxiolytics "it's GABA-agonist => it's like taking benzos" when there are actually various mechanisms how they work.

I'm in agreement, but the OP stated that he didn't want anxiolytics that modulate Gaba in some way. Taurine as an example is a fabulous amino acid yet operates through Gaba pathways in some fashion. Will it get someone in trouble? Doubtful to say the least. Bodybuilders have been taking it in grams/day for years without ill effect and this has dated back to the 70's. Yet, other's "warn" people of it's undesirable use as an anxiolytic over the long-term. I've always been of the mindset that cycling supplements or nootropics at varying intervals is best anyways since the body has an uncanny ability to adapt to all kinds of assault.

I've taken Taurine as a sleep aid. It's been good; but, tolerance and some anxiety shows when it's not taken. It was ok; but, not a long term solution.

[xsiv1]

Do you guys think its a good idea to continue in my thread, wanted to keep this central or do you guys want a seperate one for herbs, suddenly this thread popped up lol.

I dont think ppl should catagorise things as "herbal" or "synthetic" as it doesnt matter, what matters is the effects, and side effects etc.

No, I think there is a big difference between herbal and synthetic. Especially with side effects. I'd rather be dependant on a herbal supplement (If that's even possible) than on some synthetic derivatives.

I'd have to say that L-theanine http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC2726695/ and Bacopa http://www.wellnessr..._functionality/should both be on your lists of must haves. Both are subtle but I know that Suntheanine can be used in quite large doses and is considered GRAS. Tolerance is an issue but no signs of dependence. I'd personally cycle any and all of your anxiolytics. Magnesium L-Threonate is one of my faves currently. But just because something has an affinity for Gaba receptors, doesn't mean you'll be left crippled neurologically. Just use them sporadically and with due diligence to reap benefits and minimize risk.

I already got a new pack of Bacopa. Stuffs really good for anxiety overall. I don't care much for the lower dopamine effects it may have. The thanine is also good stuff. Haven't tried Magnesium L-Theonate. Though the best choice for anxiety is CBT...

Ashwagandha + Gotu Kola

Passion Flower and Kava are something to consider too..

All downregulate Gaba

Yet Gotu Kola for example never gets one in trouble. I think its main anxiolytic effect is actually through blocking cholecystokinin. People make stupid conclusions about herbal anxiolytics "it's GABA-agonist => it's like taking benzos" when there are actually various mechanisms how they work.

I'm in agreement, but the OP stated that he didn't want anxiolytics that modulate Gaba in some way. Taurine as an example is a fabulous amino acid yet operates through Gaba pathways in some fashion. Will it get someone in trouble? Doubtful to say the least. Bodybuilders have been taking it in grams/day for years without ill effect and this has dated back to the 70's. Yet, other's "warn" people of it's undesirable use as an anxiolytic over the long-term. I've always been of the mindset that cycling supplements or nootropics at varying intervals is best anyways since the body has an uncanny ability to adapt to all kinds of assault.

I've taken Taurine as a sleep aid. It's been good; but, tolerance and some anxiety shows when it's not taken. It was ok; but, not a long term solution.

Taurine has a number of beneficial properties as you know, but I don't believe any of the aforementioned compounds are long-term solutions although there is some talk about little to no tolerance to some. Cycling is imperative, whether that means abstaining for a period of time for some, or going through the arsenal of compounds available to someone that operate through varying mechanisms. Lyrica can be horrible if misused or when one becomes dependent, but as a calcium channel blocker, can offer significant anxiolytic effects when used sporadically. Aniracetam is also anxiolytic and doesn't adversely affect Gaba receptors but is perhaps too mild for those with any pathology. Cognitive behavioral therapies may be the best for treatment for one's perception of anxiety but I'd still say it takes a seat next to vigorous exercise that incorporates cardio and weight training along with clean nutrition. One can go on down the list of other mind/body activities to gain some relief whether it's meditation or yoga. but these also take a back seat. Have a person consistently train doing things like 100m sprint sets, to 5k brisk uphill walks to compound exercise lifting to core workouts and the like. It's my opinion that all the techniques (whether CBT, exercise/nutrition, pharms/supplements) mentioned can offer some solace to those suffering from chronic anxiety but that variety is the key to all of them as well...for the long-term.

Edited by xsiv1, 08 March 2013 - 06:44 PM.

[xsiv1]

Also, you were on Zoloft and Buspar but you want to avoid Gaba acting herbs like Ashwaghanda that (although not a permanent solution) is far safer having been used for hundreds of years in Avuryedic medicine? SSRI's cause permanent changes in brain chemistry. I've been on them and my friend runs a sleep lab. He's analyzed data of those who've used nearly any kind of AD and even years after cessation (in their for sleep apneas), the display the same characteristic patterns that other AD users do. Point being...you're better off mixing things up.

[Reformed-Redan]

Also, you were on Zoloft and Buspar but you want to avoid Gaba acting herbs like Ashwaghanda that (although not a permanent solution) is far safer having been used for hundreds of years in Avuryedic medicine? SSRI's cause permanent changes in brain chemistry. I've been on them and my friend runs a sleep lab. He's analyzed data of those who've used nearly any kind of AD and even years after cessation (in their for sleep apneas), the display the same characteristic patterns that other AD users do. Point being...you're better off mixing things up.

Post a link confirming your suspicion that AD damage the brain. I wonder if that is actually the case. But, overall they do have their benefits.

[medievil]

Comparative study of fluoxetine, sibutramine, sertraline and dexfenfluramine
on the morphology of serotonergic nerve terminals using serotonin
immunohistochemistry.

Kalia M, O'Callaghan JP, DB, Kramer M.

Department of Biochemistry, Molecular Pharmacology and Anesthesiology,
Jefferson Medical College, Jefferson University, Philadelphia, PA
19107, USA. mkalia@...

We compared the effects of treatment with high doses of fluoxetine,
sibutramine, sertraline, and dexfenfluramine for 4 days on brain
serotonergic nerve terminals in rats. Methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA)
and 5,7-dihydroxytryptamine (5,7-DHT) were used as positive controls because
both compounds deplete brain serotonin. Food intake and body weight changes
were also monitored and yoked, pair-fed animals were used to control for
possible changes in morphology due to nutritional deficits. Fluoxetine,
sibutramine, sertraline and dexfenfluramine all produced a significant
reduction in body weight. Fluoxetine, sibutramine and sertraline treatment
resulted in no depletion of brain serotonin but produced morphological
abnormalities in the serotonergic immunoreactive nerve network. In contrast,
dexfenfluramine and MDMA depleted brain serotonin and produced morphological
changes in the serotonin nerve network. These results indicate that even
though fluoxetine, sibutramine and sertraline do not deplete brain
serotonin, they do produce morphological changes in several brain regions
(as identified by serotonin immunohistochemistry). Dexfenfluramine and MDMA,
on the other hand, markedly deplete brain serotonin and also produce
morphological changes. Collectively, these results lend support to the
concept that all compounds acting on brain serotonin systems, whether
capable of producing serotonin depletion or not, could produce similar
effects on the morphology of cerebral serotonin systems.


PMID: 10700602 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

.....

[Reformed-Redan]

Comparative study of fluoxetine, sibutramine, sertraline and dexfenfluramine
on the morphology of serotonergic nerve terminals using serotonin
immunohistochemistry.

Kalia M, O'Callaghan JP, DB, Kramer M.

Department of Biochemistry, Molecular Pharmacology and Anesthesiology,
Jefferson Medical College, Jefferson University, Philadelphia, PA
19107, USA. mkalia@...

We compared the effects of treatment with high doses of fluoxetine,
sibutramine, sertraline, and dexfenfluramine for 4 days on brain
serotonergic nerve terminals in rats. Methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA)
and 5,7-dihydroxytryptamine (5,7-DHT) were used as positive controls because
both compounds deplete brain serotonin. Food intake and body weight changes
were also monitored and yoked, pair-fed animals were used to control for
possible changes in morphology due to nutritional deficits. Fluoxetine,
sibutramine, sertraline and dexfenfluramine all produced a significant
reduction in body weight. Fluoxetine, sibutramine and sertraline treatment
resulted in no depletion of brain serotonin but produced morphological
abnormalities in the serotonergic immunoreactive nerve network. In contrast,
dexfenfluramine and MDMA depleted brain serotonin and produced morphological
changes in the serotonin nerve network. These results indicate that even
though fluoxetine, sibutramine and sertraline do not deplete brain
serotonin, they do produce morphological changes in several brain regions
(as identified by serotonin immunohistochemistry). Dexfenfluramine and MDMA,
on the other hand, markedly deplete brain serotonin and also produce
morphological changes. Collectively, these results lend support to the
concept that all compounds acting on brain serotonin systems, whether
capable of producing serotonin depletion or not, could produce similar
effects on the morphology of cerebral serotonin systems.


PMID: 10700602 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

.....

Well obviously you're changing you're brain chemistry. For some people with a predisposition to depression or anxiety, these changes are desirable.

[xsiv1]

Comparative study of fluoxetine, sibutramine, sertraline and dexfenfluramine
on the morphology of serotonergic nerve terminals using serotonin
immunohistochemistry.

Kalia M, O'Callaghan JP, DB, Kramer M.

Department of Biochemistry, Molecular Pharmacology and Anesthesiology,
Jefferson Medical College, Jefferson University, Philadelphia, PA
19107, USA. mkalia@...

We compared the effects of treatment with high doses of fluoxetine,
sibutramine, sertraline, and dexfenfluramine for 4 days on brain
serotonergic nerve terminals in rats. Methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA)
and 5,7-dihydroxytryptamine (5,7-DHT) were used as positive controls because
both compounds deplete brain serotonin. Food intake and body weight changes
were also monitored and yoked, pair-fed animals were used to control for
possible changes in morphology due to nutritional deficits. Fluoxetine,
sibutramine, sertraline and dexfenfluramine all produced a significant
reduction in body weight. Fluoxetine, sibutramine and sertraline treatment
resulted in no depletion of brain serotonin but produced morphological
abnormalities in the serotonergic immunoreactive nerve network. In contrast,
dexfenfluramine and MDMA depleted brain serotonin and produced morphological
changes in the serotonin nerve network. These results indicate that even
though fluoxetine, sibutramine and sertraline do not deplete brain
serotonin, they do produce morphological changes in several brain regions
(as identified by serotonin immunohistochemistry). Dexfenfluramine and MDMA,
on the other hand, markedly deplete brain serotonin and also produce
morphological changes. Collectively, these results lend support to the
concept that all compounds acting on brain serotonin systems, whether
capable of producing serotonin depletion or not, could produce similar
effects on the morphology of cerebral serotonin systems.


PMID: 10700602 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

.....

Well obviously you're changing you're brain chemistry. For some people with a predisposition to depression or anxiety, these changes are desirable.

Please don't get me wrong on this. For many people, it really is their best option! Myself included. I only wish I knew more about them back when I was put on them after a family tragedy. I'm not sure anything else would have been as effective at that point... Although I went through a handful or more to find which worked best. What I want told about was that they'd have to be carefully titrated off of and once in remission, I think the doctor should have tried, at the very least, to suggest I come off. Granted, I had been on one for some time before I would have felt comfortable coming off anyways. They definitely have their therapeutic value.

[protoject]

so far I have tried many different herbs, it seems that ashwaghanda and magnolia bark are in fact good. If you're worried about gaba receptor downregulation or something, then don't do it. But seriously I am very sensitive to those kinds of changes, I easily have withdrawals after only short uses of benzos and gaba-b agonists... however ashwaghanda and magnolia i find to be good and not causing any extra anxiety or withdrawal problems. Hell, they don't come with the spectrum of bad side effects that benzos come with, which is what really makes me question the idea that they are having much of an effect on gaba receptors. Even if they are I would rather take them then feel shitty 300% of the time.

Anyway I recently ordered some magnolia bark along with some 98% honokiol extract and I'm gonna mix the two and let you know what happens. Also ordered Mulungu which Ive heard good things about, possibly Kanna though I'm a bit weary of kanna since it might have ssri action and I seem to be sensitive to that. I agree with who ever said mixing some bacopa and rhodiola together, as I've had some good results mixing this with the magnolia and ashwaghanda. However you might find it a bit activating, I am not sure if that is sustainable for me personally due to anxiety and insomnia issues.

But I'm going to try mixing a lot of these things together, with rhodiola and bacopa only at a low dose [and im not sure about kanna as i havent tried it yet].

TLDR::: Magnolia bark - has a relaxing effect. Ashwaghanda- has an anti-anxiety / antidepressant effect and seems to be a mental and emotional adaptogen of sorts. It's subtle but effective. I find ashwaghanda has been practically the only thing that has helped me this much in ages. I actually have days where i make jokes all day at work and everyone laughs, because i feel better.

[xsiv1]

I meant that I wasn't told about its effects and withdrawals but I was pretty desperate. Should have researched it myself back then but was going through enough. I do like ashwaghanda as well when I do use it. I find one cocktail of a supplement particularly helpful. I've noticed its been going on sale a lot as of late so am hoping they're not discontinuing it. It's made by FutureBiotics, and it's called Stress-Assist. For some reason, the synergy of the compounds makes it a really effective anxiety supplement for me.

Edited by xsiv1, 08 March 2013 - 11:39 PM.

[medievil]

Comparative study of fluoxetine, sibutramine, sertraline and dexfenfluramine
on the morphology of serotonergic nerve terminals using serotonin
immunohistochemistry.

Kalia M, O'Callaghan JP, DB, Kramer M.

Department of Biochemistry, Molecular Pharmacology and Anesthesiology,
Jefferson Medical College, Jefferson University, Philadelphia, PA
19107, USA. mkalia@...

We compared the effects of treatment with high doses of fluoxetine,
sibutramine, sertraline, and dexfenfluramine for 4 days on brain
serotonergic nerve terminals in rats. Methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA)
and 5,7-dihydroxytryptamine (5,7-DHT) were used as positive controls because
both compounds deplete brain serotonin. Food intake and body weight changes
were also monitored and yoked, pair-fed animals were used to control for
possible changes in morphology due to nutritional deficits. Fluoxetine,
sibutramine, sertraline and dexfenfluramine all produced a significant
reduction in body weight. Fluoxetine, sibutramine and sertraline treatment
resulted in no depletion of brain serotonin but produced morphological
abnormalities in the serotonergic immunoreactive nerve network. In contrast,
dexfenfluramine and MDMA depleted brain serotonin and produced morphological
changes in the serotonin nerve network. These results indicate that even
though fluoxetine, sibutramine and sertraline do not deplete brain
serotonin, they do produce morphological changes in several brain regions
(as identified by serotonin immunohistochemistry). Dexfenfluramine and MDMA,
on the other hand, markedly deplete brain serotonin and also produce
morphological changes. Collectively, these results lend support to the
concept that all compounds acting on brain serotonin systems, whether
capable of producing serotonin depletion or not, could produce similar
effects on the morphology of cerebral serotonin systems.


PMID: 10700602 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

.....

Well obviously you're changing you're brain chemistry. For some people with a predisposition to depression or anxiety, these changes are desirable.

Agreed, i personally take lexapro, fuck those changes as it also induces positive neurotrophic changes, but fact is they change the brain.

[brainslugged]

Do you consider Theanine to be a herb? It is extracted from a plant/occurs naturally.

Theanine (about 400mg-600mg) is the most effective natural substance for anxiety as far as I have experienced. I think it even trumps chamomile which I find to pretty much just make me tired, not actually reduce anxiety. Theanine tends to make me feel more calm and focused, I think. At the 400-600 range, it helps moderately with stoping racing thoughts. I find that exceeding 600 starts to have a numbing and unpleasant effect with less effect on racing thoughts, though, so I wouldn't recommend any more than that. I don't think it is very helpful for something like every day anxiety since it isn't very strong, but it can make attacks of anxiety more manageable.

I can understand being afraid of SSRIs, as I am too, but there are plenty alternatives that will be more effective than herbs. Especially if the anxiety is diminishing your quality of life significantly, the few side effects of things like Vistaril or SSREs will probably worth bearing, and AFIK, they don't have any of the long term side effects of SSRIs, so if you didn't like them, you could get off them. Of course, I realize it is not always easy to find a doctor who is liberal about this sort of thing, but if you can find one who isn't fixated on SSRIs, then this is something to seriously consider.

Also, have you tried CBT? Some people are helped a lot by it, and it has no side effects at all.

[medievil]

St johns worth (the good extracts like kira, perika, seroforin) are as good as ssri's in study's i find them better antidepressants.

[Reformed-Redan]

so far I have tried many different herbs, it seems that ashwaghanda and magnolia bark are in fact good. If you're worried about gaba receptor downregulation or something, then don't do it. But seriously I am very sensitive to those kinds of changes, I easily have withdrawals after only short uses of benzos and gaba-b agonists... however ashwaghanda and magnolia i find to be good and not causing any extra anxiety or withdrawal problems. Hell, they don't come with the spectrum of bad side effects that benzos come with, which is what really makes me question the idea that they are having much of an effect on gaba receptors. Even if they are I would rather take them then feel shitty 300% of the time.

Anyway I recently ordered some magnolia bark along with some 98% honokiol extract and I'm gonna mix the two and let you know what happens. Also ordered Mulungu which Ive heard good things about, possibly Kanna though I'm a bit weary of kanna since it might have ssri action and I seem to be sensitive to that. I agree with who ever said mixing some bacopa and rhodiola together, as I've had some good results mixing this with the magnolia and ashwaghanda. However you might find it a bit activating, I am not sure if that is sustainable for me personally due to anxiety and insomnia issues.

But I'm going to try mixing a lot of these things together, with rhodiola and bacopa only at a low dose [and im not sure about kanna as i havent tried it yet].

TLDR::: Magnolia bark - has a relaxing effect. Ashwaghanda- has an anti-anxiety / antidepressant effect and seems to be a mental and emotional adaptogen of sorts. It's subtle but effective. I find ashwaghanda has been practically the only thing that has helped me this much in ages. I actually have days where i make jokes all day at work and everyone laughs, because i feel better.

Yeah, I'm gonna stay away from benzos. Scary stuff, works so well; but, at what cost? Magnolia bark was ok. Remember feeling pretty spaced out on it, kindof. I'll prolly give ashwaganda another try since I have a stash left. Take the bacopa t night and the rhodhiola in the morning, works really well that way. Both bacopa and rhodhiola affect the 5-HT1a receptors if I remember well. Lol did I say I love serotonin? The other day I was sitting at my bus stop and felt really content. Heh. Kanna is great for mood boost. Many ppl it works after a week. I felt the initial effects after my first sip of Kanna tea. Really calm and relaxed somewhat carefree. Maybe I just responded well to it. There might be an issue with Kanna and an SSRI because Kanna is a very strong SRI. Might just potentiate the SSRI you're taking, a lot(?)

[Reformed-Redan]

Do you consider Theanine to be a herb? It is extracted from a plant/occurs naturally.

Theanine (about 400mg-600mg) is the most effective natural substance for anxiety as far as I have experienced. I think it even trumps chamomile which I find to pretty much just make me tired, not actually reduce anxiety. Theanine tends to make me feel more calm and focused, I think. At the 400-600 range, it helps moderately with stoping racing thoughts. I find that exceeding 600 starts to have a numbing and unpleasant effect with less effect on racing thoughts, though, so I wouldn't recommend any more than that. I don't think it is very helpful for something like every day anxiety since it isn't very strong, but it can make attacks of anxiety more manageable.

I can understand being afraid of SSRIs, as I am too, but there are plenty alternatives that will be more effective than herbs. Especially if the anxiety is diminishing your quality of life significantly, the few side effects of things like Vistaril or SSREs will probably worth bearing, and AFIK, they don't have any of the long term side effects of SSRIs, so if you didn't like them, you could get off them. Of course, I realize it is not always easy to find a doctor who is liberal about this sort of thing, but if you can find one who isn't fixated on SSRIs, then this is something to seriously consider.

Also, have you tried CBT? Some people are helped a lot by it, and it has no side effects at all.

Yeah, theanine is really good. I like theanine and caffeine. SSRI's are good at what they do. I don't get the bad rap they get. Theanine is like the only thing I would take long term. Stuffs good and safe.

[medievil]

I never noticed anything of bacopa.

Id agree that theanine is rather good.

[medievil]

Identified a whole bunch of herbal antipsychotics.

Strangely couldnt find a gabab herbal agonist, and i find everything hmm....

[Galaxyshock]

Looks like Gotu Kola does have GABAb-agonism:

This study is consistent with asiatic acid having an effect on AChE, a selective GABA(B) receptor agonist and no sedative effect on locomotor.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22112723


Ashwangandha also agonizes GABAb along with GABAa.., well it's actually considered to have "GABA mimetic" mechanism of action, but the GABAb affinity is definitely there as it works for Phenibut withdrawals.

I've been consuming full-spectrum Ashwagandha powder couple teaspoons a day after I run out of an extract. I feel it's smoother but the good qualities are still there. No rebounds or side effects.

So I still stand behind Ashwagandha + Gotu Kola for effective herbal anxiety treatment with minimal side effects. Throw some Rhodiola in there and it's pretty awesome.

Edited by Galaxyshock, 09 March 2013 - 01:53 PM.

[xsiv1]

SSRIS get a bad rap because of what they do to your brain on a permanent basis. They have some decent therapeutic properties but should be weaned from as soon as one goes into remission. Just read some of the forums dedicated to their withdrawal! Whole sites dedicated that give hundreds of accounts of peoples' experiences dealing with discontinuation processes and outright cessation. Many report feel apathetic, even dysphoric with imp paired libido and sexual sides more than a year after cessation. Some feel so terrible that their only resort is to go back on the drug. Check out Paxil withdrawal. org. I've tried to come off Paxil twice in the past and had to basically switch to the longer acting Prozac which activated me like amp lol. Suffice it to say, I'm still on a low nightly dose. I'm not depressed but I also have no discernible side effects from it. My libido and EF are both fine. It may still help me sleep without concern but other than that, Idk. One day I'll come off it after nearly a decade of use.

Kanna is said to work wonderfully and I believe I read that it's MOA is similar to that of Clomipramine. I bought a small bottle of it some time ago and then came to realize that it may cause serotonin syndrome when combined with other ADs. I have sporadic bouts of anxiety due to strict deadlines at work and frequent public presentations. However, my biggest issue has always been with fluctuations in mood. I can be happy, than flat for the most part and very rarely dysphoric. Problem is, I can also go from calm and relaxed to very irritable quickly. It's the irritation that I'm looking to negate. Mostly occurs in traffic, but also if I feel slighted. Normal right? Not really lol. Too much of it isn't good for me so supplements, exercise and CBT are currently working nicely, relatively speaking.

Edited by xsiv1, 09 March 2013 - 01:59 PM.

[Galaxyshock]

St johns worth (the good extracts like kira, perika, seroforin) are as good as ssri's in study's i find them better antidepressants.

oh I forgot SJW it's definitely a great one. I find even the cheap Now brand extract works but needs a bit higher dose. It's 250 capsule bottle for like 14$. I feel it's less serotonergic than Kira for some reason. Probably a different profile in the active constituents.