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Treating major depression and anxiety

depression

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#1 Vicktor

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 03:29 PM


My girlfriend suffers from major depression and severe anxiety. This has been a problem for her as long as she can remember, but the last few months she'd had a really hard time being suicidal and thinking of life as completely meaningless. Most of her problems can be traced back to her past, but to some extent she thinks this is a part of her personality.

Her diet consists of coffe and junk food. I think this might be making her mood worse and sucks away the little energy she got.

She's been in therapy over the years, this doesn't seem to help. She's currently on Venlafaxin 75 mg which will be raised to 150 mg next week. She has also been on benzodiazepines for the past few weeks.

Hopefully there will be some effect from the SNRI Venlafaxin, although she didn't feel a thing except from sleepiness from Fluoxoetine, even when taking the maximum dose recommended by the Swedish health care system.

Are there any supplements that could help her getting through the day and that works well together with Venlafaxin? Should she take some vitamins to compensate for her crappy diet? I'm thinking of getting her some L-tyrosine for energy and Melatonin for sleep.

Every tip that could help her out from this state is welcome.

Edited by Vicktor, 15 May 2013 - 03:30 PM.


#2 tunt01

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 04:10 PM

I personally think benzos are really bad news. I would almost consider them a "different kind of suicide", though that's probably colored by my own personal experience of watching family members lose their minds to that crap (they are worse, not better).

If you are her boyfriend, why don't you demand to eat 1 meal a day w/ her. Eat fish, beets, and leafy greens, then go for a walk together (exercise). Maybe add a carb source like sweet potato or beans. Make it a daily routine that integrates with her schedule.

daily routine + diet + exercise is probably 50-80% of the solution

Edited by prophets, 15 May 2013 - 04:10 PM.

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#3 Godot

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 05:39 PM

Agreed. If she wants to feel healthy, she has to act healthy -- good diet and exercise.

If symptom-focused psychotherapy hasn't helped in the past, suggest she find a therapist to help her implement healthier behaviors.

#4 nupi

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 10:18 AM

75mg of Venlafaxine is pretty low - I would expect a difference at 150 or even 300mg. After that, Wellbutrin could be used for augmentation (although I am a little wary of that because it might cause her to be more anxious)...

Edited by nupi, 16 May 2013 - 10:30 AM.

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#5 Tom_

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 04:35 PM

Venlafaxine is a very effective antidepressant. However at 75mg it is literally no different from an SSRI. 150-225mg is where you should hope to see a significant change as its Noradrenaline reuptake inhibition increases. A ususal maximum dosage is 225 but for inpatients or the severely depressed dosages as high as 375 are warrented. Although rather than rasing the dosage other options are ususally better.

Well she definatly warrents a diagnosis of severe depressive disorder. Long term mental health problems often point towards personality disorders and you mentioned past major life stressors which further increase the chances. While she is unlikely to qualify for the diagnosis of a paticular PD (personality disorder) the diagnosis itself is likely warrented. Another possibility is a diagnosis of dysthymia and major depression otherwise known as double depression. A diagnosis of either personality disorder or dysthymia would indicate she needs high quality psychotherapy and a cause of behavioual therapy would also likely be useful. Mindfulness practice is every effective in reducing symptoms of chronic depression. Even a diagnosis of PTSD could be made depending on symptoms. The treatments for all are slightly different. A referal to a psychiatrist (if it hasn't already been made) needs to be made.

Gently encouraging her to exercise and eat more healthy are important but try not to become overly pushy, do the stuff with her. A ten minute walk in 1 week can turn into a twenty minute walk the next. A coffee in a park can turn into seeing a friend the next week etc..

Psychotherapy is vital, often changing the therapist is useful. In more severe depression CBT is the best practice with basic prinicpals of behavioual activation being followed. Encouging her to put into practice what she has learned will be very useful. As an example she might be taught breathing exercises by her therapist for panic attacks, learning these yourself and practicing them with her can help. So it may be helpful to come along to a few sessions with her. Either way pushing to get her back in evidence based therapy is very important.

Treating the depression depends on the diagnosis, subtype, side effects of drugs etc...

Can you tell me which sounds most like her?

Mood is much the same the whole day, subjectively feels worse in the morning, wakes up early, severe psychomotor disturbances include claims and/or evidence or poor memory, concentration, seemingly slowed or sped up thinking uncharatriscly agitated or inactive (as evidenced by difficulty sitting still (hand ringing, frequently getting up, chewing) or lack of deliberate movement (single or slow to change facial expression, no 'normal figiting', decreased startal response) - these would effect faical expessions, speech and movement. Weight and apetite loss are common but it is possible increases in apeptite and weight can be seen. Apart from waking up unususally early problems getting to sleep/waking up frequently or extreem exessive sleeping (13+ hours a day). There is ususally a more well defined 'episode' they tend to resolve even for a few weeks with almost no to no symptoms followed by a quick onset back to in severe symptoms. Significant guilt is common.

Mood subjectively feels worse in the afternoon or evening, weight gain, exessive eating in paticular of carbohydrates (not just becase thats what is easiest to get access to), exessive sleeping up to 12 hours a day or with many naps throughout the day, chronic problems that tend not to remit completely which include a pattern of long standing sensitivity to rejection (always expecting to be rejected, takes it very badly when feels rejected) and 'leaden parlysis' a feeling of heaviness in the limbs and head almost as if it takes great physical effort to move arms and legs.

Symptoms that don't quite fit either of the top two. Don't try and make it fit, if it doesn't it doesn't. Whether the symptoms fit one of the first two or not it would be good if you could describe as many symptoms she suffers as possible.

A few other questions. Is she still washing (brushing her teeth showering), is she self harming (such as cutting or burning herself), is she abusing or addicted to drugs, has she ever attempted suicide or self harm before, has she been diagnosied with any current or past medical problems (including psychiatric), has she had a blood test and a physical exam, is there a history of physical, emotional or sexual abuse/violence/bullying, does she have many friends and what antidepressants/psychotherapies/supplements has she tried?



If she becomes actively suicidal with risk factors (I'll talk about those in a minute), is frankly psychotic (claims to be hearing voices, seeing things that aren't there, doesn't move or becomes very agitated) or unable to care for herself at all i.e lies in bed ALL day an acute hospital admission in nearly all cases needs to be made and at the very least an evaluation by emergency medical services (taking her to A&E, having a GP come and visit/take her there that day, for an emergacy visit with a psychiatrist, psychologist or other mental health professional).






The rest of this is just talking about how to know if someone is more or less likely to try and kill themselves and what to do about it. The majority of the information is easily accessable online. You may want to take a look or you may find you already know it.

There are different stages of suicide leading to the worst - death. Learning the warning signs for serious suicide attempts is the best way to stop someone taking/trying to take their life. The first stage is thoughts of suicide (your girlfriend mentioned them to you), the second is planning suicide, the third is obtaining the means to commit suicide (pills, gun, rope), the fourth is trying and the 5th is death. It might seem quite irrelevent to you but knowing what to do at each stage is damn important. The most important thing to remeber is don't be afraid to ask. You won't be 'putting the idea in her head'. Certain behaviours should be on your to watch out for list (some obvious, others prehaps not so), they include: writing out suicide letters, giving away prized possessions, setting affares in order (setting a will for example), increasing anger and irritability, after a period of being very ill (slow, lethagic, sleeping LOADS and in general so slow they wouldn't really have the energy to kill themselves) an increase in enegery and seeming 'wellness' but this of course could also be a sign of getting better, sudden abnormal changes in behaviour such as exessive risk taking, acting as if they don't care and abusing drugs more than normal. These two websites are pretty helpful in the area as well http://www.helpguide..._prevention.htm and http://www.suicide.o...e-articles.html .

The first stage - thoughts of suicide
the person should be put in contact with health services (she is)
given psychotherapy
approiate medication
tested for 'physical' diseases like cushings and hypothyroidism

The second stage - planning
all of the above and:
the person should be evaluated within 24 hours - that means you need to book her in to be seen by someone ASAP. Always mention that she has made a plan.
sometimes depending on the likelyhood of success, access to means and other symptoms hospitalization is nessary but not normally

The third stage - having or trying to obtain items to carry out plan i.e. gun, pills etc
all of the above and:
the person should be seen as soon as humanily possible - when speaking to medical sercvices you should always mention she has made attempts to obtain the items she needs
the person should not be left alone under any cercamstances
again depending on the risk of the method they have choosen, other symptoms, support network present hospitazation may become increasingly more neassary.
conviscate items such as pills

The fourth stage - trying
all of the above
immediate medical attention to ensure no lasting damage and an ergent psychiatric evaluation.
depending on the seriousness of the attempt (for example taking 10 pills or taking 300 pills) a hopsitazation is required in about 60-80% of serious attempts.

#6 nupi

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 08:13 AM

I always thought these how to react to suicidal people and what signs to watch for are good mainly for one thing: enable the suicidal to carry out their business without interruption because they know what behavior will lead to them. Like approximately the last thing any "rationally" suicidal person would want to do is talk about it. If questioned, the winning strategy is obviously to evade...

#7 Tom_

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 12:44 PM

and yet study after study associate those behaviours with both successful suicides and attempters.

#8 nupi

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 01:10 PM

That doesn't really contradict the fact that it is also a howto on avoiding detection... Maybe your average suicidal person just ain't very good at it.

#9 xks201

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 02:09 PM

Honestly I would look to dopamine first before serotonin or gaba. You can have a 23andme genetics test done to see if she has COMT mutations which means she would hypermetabolize dopamine. In my experience this mutation is more common than the serotonergic and gaba ones. I never liked SSRIs. Zombie drugs basically is what they are. Consider finding a good doctor familiar in hormone testing and replacement and test her sex hormones and T3/reverse T3 levels (thyroid). Calculate the ratio to see if she is a candidate for T3 monotherapy (as opposed to synthroid/T4) to diagnose potential reverse t3 dominance which can take place in even people with normal T4 and TSH levels.

Edited by xks201, 06 June 2013 - 02:11 PM.

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#10 Sunwind

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 09:55 AM

Get her off the benzos. They will only make her worse in the long term. They offer excellent short-term relief, but once you stop them (which is very hard to do) the effects do not persist, and you WILL feel worse than before you started. Trust me on this, I've been addicted to them twice.

Also, I have been on Venlafaxine for chronic SA with co-morbid MPD since last December at 225mg. Venlafaxine has been the only anti-depressant that has relieved my depression, but it has also caused me severe anhedonia, which basically means I have no drive to do anything, which is quite possibly one of the worst side-effects of an antidepressant that there could ever possibly be (aside from making someone MORE depressed, but anhedonia pretty much accomplishes that in and of itself).

I would like to be able to tell you something that can help her, but I've been struggling with this nearly all my life and have tried everything, the only thing I am seeing substantial, and most importantly SUSTAINABLE results with, has been Piracetam+CDP-Choline+Noopept.

The problem with mental health disorders is that everybody is different, and the causes can and usually are resulting from different problems, it's really a case of trial and error. I wish I had somebody in my life to help me through this shit, so the best thing I can suggest is just to be there for her as much as possible and try to help her.

Eating better and exercise can certainly help, you don't even need to eat better really, just change all of your (her) drinks to water. That alone will make a massive difference in health. I eat at least a pizza every day along with other junk food, and from simply switching all of my drinks to water and non-fat milk, I am still losing weight to this day. I am about 5'9" and weigh roughly 65kg, I used to weigh about 85kg a couple years ago.

Like I say, everyone is different and different treatments may help some people and not others, but this is my current daily stack that I started taking a few weeks ago, and I have honestly never felt better in my life. I have even stopped taking the Venlafaxine. Maybe it will give you some ideas:

Posted Image

Again, like I said everyone is different and what works for somebody may not work at all for someone else.. so this kind of thing is just really hard to give advice for and deal with. Good luck.





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