709 replies to this topic

[BigPapaChakra]

I don't mean this to be combative, so please don't take it that way, but, unless I'm missing something (and I may be, I quickly skimmed all the posts here), not many people have tried jdtic. Additionally, some (but not all) of the people who have tried it don't even have HPPD or DP/DR; the only one who has DP/DR symptoms trying it right now is Kieran, and we have reason to believe that the compound is in fact not jdtic.

If you go here, the experience sounds pretty great in my humble opinion. That's basically the only experience I know of besides a similar one posted earlier with naloxone and what not. There are other options, too, if jdtic isn't for you, such as naloxone and naltrexone. If you search around there is actually a study in which two patients with HPPD from LSD and some other substances were given large doses of naltrexone - not low dose/ultra low dose naltrexone typically used for disease reversal/prevention/anti-aging - and both of them were more or less cured of their symptoms. Checking in with them 6 months down the line they were still recovered. That's probably the next thing I'm going to try if I don't end up receiving this small amount of NSI-189; though, again, as I'm adding in one thing at a time and finding my minimum effective dose for LLLT, TULIP is starting to help (though I'm still undoubtedly afflicted with HPPD:/). If I were you I'd definitely try pregnenolone+TULIP; LostFalco in the TULIP thread recently posted a cheap source for PQQ and within a few days of use with creatine my heads getting back to where it was many, many months ago when I first tried TULIP (before stopping it for 6-7 weeks only to have a huge stressor bring back HPPD worse than ever).

I'm not even sure that jdtic is for everyone who has symptoms similar to ours as so many different things cause it (I'm talking about HPPD) - it can be caused from LSD or shrooms, all the way up to obscure research chemicals. From my personal position, though, jdtic would be helpful because the things causing my symptoms (besides a very, very stressful life and multiple concussions) act in essentially the opposite manner (I know things aren't that simple/black-and-white, but that's my simple hypothesis for now - KOR agonism+dysregulated NMDAr's and acetylcholine --> my HPPD; KOR antagonism+rebuilding NMDAr's+acetycholine receptors --> HPPD reversal).

[Missjess]

No offense taken!! I have read the experiences already

Well if I try it I will have minor hppd and Dpdr so will deff report back!!!

Yes I've been looking into naltrexone and naloxone....but I never thought it would be a permanant fix...I thought u wud have to keep taking them daily or something perhaps I will discuss this with my psychiatrist this week!!!! Thank u for that!!!!

Well mine is the same..Iboga is KOR agonist and NMDA antagonist....

[BigPapaChakra]

I can no longer find the full text online - only a link that leads to a dead page, but look at this:


Naltrexone treatment of hallucinogen persisting perception disorder

Lerner, Arturo G; Oyffe, Igor; Isaacs, Geoff; Sigal, Mircea. The American Journal of Psychiatry154. 3 (Mar 1997): 437.

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Full Text







To THE EDITOR: We present a report of two patients with hallucinogen persisting perception disorder who were successfully treated with naltrexone, a long-acting, orally administered opioid antagonist.
Mr. A, a 24-year-old man with a previous history of LSD abuse, reported being bothered by flashes of colors, visual distortion, trails of images from moving objects, and positive afterimages. The episodes usually lasted a few minutes and caused clinically significant distress and impairment in social and occupational functioning, which led to dysphoric mood and suicidal thoughts. After 2 months of unsuccessful treatment with benzodiazepines and classical antidepressants, Mr. A was given a regimen of naltrexone, 25 mg/day, for 2 days; the dose was then increased to 50 mg/day. After 2 weeks there was a marked decrease in the frequency and duration of flashbacks as well as an improvement in the suicidal ideation. After 2 months, there was no evidence of the troublesome symptoms, and naltrexone therapy was discontinued. This improvement was maintained throughout the 6 months of outpatient follow-up.
Mr. B, a 22-year-old man with a history of abuse of LSD and "ecstasy," reported geometric hallucinations, false perceptions of movement in peripheral visual fields, positive afterimages, and body image distortion. These episodes, which lasted fractions of a second, were severe enough to cause substantial stress and anxiety. After 1 month of unsuccessful treatment with benzodiazepines, Mr. B was given a regimen of naltrexone, 25 mg/day, for 2 days; the dose was then increased to 50 mg/day. After 2 weeks he reported considerable improvement in both the number of flashbacks and the accompanying anxiety. Naltrexone therapy was discontinued after 2 months, and the improvement was maintained over a 6-month follow-up.
Naltrexone appears to be useful in some patients who suffer from flashbacks (1). One of the proposed mechanisms of naltrexone's efficacy is that hallucinogen-induced flashbacks may be so distressing as to represent painful stimuli, which have been shown to provoke a greater release of endorphins (2). Because benzodiazepine treatment, while useful in some cases of hallucinogen persisting perception disorder (3), is not always effective, naltrexone treatment should be considered as an option for certain patients.
Controlled studies are necessary to further evaluate naltrexone therapy in patients who complain of flashbacks of various etiologies.

References


REFERENCES
1. Bills LJ, Kreisler K: Treatment of flashbacks with naltrexone (letter). Am J Psychiatry 1993;150:1430
2. Winchel RM, Stanley M: Self-injurious behavior: a review of the behavior and biology of self-mutilation. Am J Psychiatry 1991; 148:306-317
3. Abraham HD: Visual phenomenology of the LSD flashback. Arch Gen Psychiatry 1983; 40:884-889

A member of the HPPD forums did a trial with these kinda doses of naltrexone and had great results, claiming it helped DP/DR a lot along with mood and so forth. As you can see the doses were not the typical LDN doses of like 1-4.5mg.

Reading the study almost makes me want to purchase some naltrexone right now, but I don't want to start too many things at once (plus, I like quantifying my experiments so I can write about em - for instance, I did a blinded experiment with pregnenolone before my latest huge wave of HPPD and it time and time again increased my n-back scores, reaction time, cued attention, and my subjective report of mood).

[Missjess]

Thank you soooooo much !!!!! I will be asking my psychiatrist about naltrexone !!!!

[BigPapaChakra]

Of course, glad I can offer something to potentially help.

Here is another (not entirely positive) study on HPPD: http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3736944/
"Lamotrigine is a widely used antiepileptic and mood-stabilizing drug which acts by blocking sodium and voltage-gated calcium channels and inhibiting glutamate-mediated excitatory neurotransmission. Additionally, there are data supporting a neuroprotective effect [Halonen et al. 2001]. Lamotrigine has also been shown to reduce symptoms of depersonalization and derealization [Sierra et al. 2001], although the same group was unable to reproduce their results in a placebo-controlled follow-up study [Sierra et al. 2003]. Given that excitotoxic destruction of inhibitory interneurons may play a role in at least some of the visual symptoms of HPPD (see below), lamotrigine was considered a possible treatment option for this patient. Furthermore, lamotrigine is generally well tolerated with a relative lack of adverse effects, making it a drug of choice for youths and young adults.
During a year-long trial of lamotrigine, with a maximum dose of 200 mg, the patient experienced significant relief from her symptoms, some of which disappeared completely. Only the depersonalization and derealization proved somewhat refractory. It is important to note that the patient showed a marked improvement during the 200 mg dosing-in phase itself and remained stable even after the dose was reduced to 100 mg daily."
They ended up screwing with the results after adding SSRI's, and by the end of the study the results weren't too good outside of interestingly increased attention/focus in the participant. The study really echoes what personal experience has shown on the HPPD forums - SSRI's don't always work, sometimes can make things worse; anti-psychotics make things worse; and anti-convulsants and benzo's normally make things better. This coincides with the often discussed 'pre-seizure epilepsy-like' state of HPPD.
I really have to start digging into some biology and neurology type textbooks - been spending a lot of time blogging and thus researching slightly irrelevant information to curing HPPD, and the stress at school doesn't help. The above study makes me excited to try things such as Coluracetam along with inducing a state of 'artificial ketosis' (where you don't restrict carbs yet consume copious amouns of MCT's, ketogenic amino acids, and perhaps, ketone salts/esters) - the neuroprotection from excitotoxicity is there, GABAergic effects are there, and even more. But, sorry to all the rest for bombarding this thread with HPPD related stuff. Tomorrow I'm gonna start looking at the literature surrounding jdtic and maybe analyze it here at this thread... if that won't be a nuisance, of course

[KieranA001]

Well I'm reporting back, I'm not dead! Yes! :D but it does mean I had to put up with all those symptoms for all that time yesterday and I've got nothing out of it! My DR has not gone away (although this might be different for certain people based on what your DP/DR is caused by) my DP/DR wasn't caused by drugs, it is just always there chronically and the only time it went away (it does do that sometimes) is when I went down the beach, drunk a couple liters or water and coke and chilled out down there all day. My mood is the same old crappy one as always at the moment.

If you have any questions just feel free to ask. :-)

The only effects I got from that was a tiny "sulbutiamine" like mood uplift for a couple of hours and that was yesterday. Not even that good of a mood uplift, but it was different. Kinda mellow, like when you go out for dinner or do something calming but enjoyable. Personally, IMO it's not worth it. I might have had too much, it's hard to say without anything to measure it out with. I used the tiniest dose I could fit on a pick and like I said it tasted punjant and quite bitter kinda like citrus

Edited by KieranA001, 23 February 2014 - 07:37 AM.

[socialpiranha]

well i hope no one else is rash enough to base their opinion on what they have heard so far because it's questionable at best.

[KieranA001]

I do, however, hope that all of you guys benefit from it. I guess it just doesn't agree with me. Good luck!

[BigPapaChakra]

@Kieran: glad to hear the symptoms abated! Just wondering, have you looked into negative ions? I don't want to switch the topic of the thread but you specifically stated you felt better at the beach, which is a rich source of negative ions. There's a good amount of studies showing benefits in depression, anxiety, stress, and general mood improvement via negative ions. The BioMat I'm about to receive also emits negative ions, so hopefully that improves some things for me.

@socialpiranha: hook me up wit da jdtic ; but more seriously, I agree. I feel as though there was definitely something up with that 'jdtic'. No reason it should induce dissociative symptoms.

[KieranA001]

@Kieran: glad to hear the symptoms abated! Just wondering, have you looked into negative ions? I don't want to switch the topic of the thread but you specifically stated you felt better at the beach, which is a rich source of negative ions. There's a good amount of studies showing benefits in depression, anxiety, stress, and general mood improvement via negative ions. The BioMat I'm about to receive also emits negative ions, so hopefully that improves some things for me.

@socialpiranha: hook me up wit da jdtic ; but more seriously, I agree. I feel as though there was definitely something up with that 'jdtic'. No reason it should induce dissociative symptoms.

Perhaps it gave an effect of dissociative symptoms for the first couple of minutes because of the VT. It might have stopped some oxygen getting to some parts of my body. Don't have a clue. It didn't last that long anyway, about as long as the rapid heartbeat.

No I haven't tried negative ions. They aren't just another scam are they ? :-) have you tried them, do they work ?

[BigPapaChakra]

I don't believe they are - as I said there is a decent amount of clinical literature backing up the technology/idea/whatever term you want to apply (not that it really matters, there is undoubtedly a lot of flawed clinical literature, but it does help when there is evidence behind something). I have no experience with them.... yet. The BioMat Pro that I'm about to receive incorporates negative ions and crystals such as tourmaline and amethyst. The main thing I wanted was simply the far infrared light but the rest is a decent bonus with studies showing decreased anxiety, decreased salivary markers of stress, and both clinical and anecdotal reports of increased mood, sometimes lasting, controllable euphoria. I should have the mat sometime next week and I'm hoping it lives up to the hype, especially for my younger brothers sake (even if it didn't help my HPPD or enhance my well-being/performance/consciousness in some sense, yet aided my younger brother, I'd be more than relieved). The only thing keeping me skeptical is my experience with the company thus far - not only do they operate on those weird scheming pyramid models, but there were already 2 or 3 mix ups with my order.

[socialpiranha]

kieran i'm not going to speculate on your experience anymore but suffice to say you nor I actually know what it was so let's not pretend we do. Even when i get mine i won't be sure until/unless it's tested.

[celebes]

BigPapaChakra, kappa agents are fair game I think, but this isn't the HPPD snakeoil thread.

[KieranA001]

kieran i'm not going to speculate on your experience anymore but suffice to say you nor I actually know what it was so let's not pretend we do. Even when i get mine i won't be sure until/unless it's tested.

Fair enough. Well if they've both come from MedChem Express I'm sure it will be JDTic ? Because they're a well-known company ? :-)

Just because I have had a bad experience with the stuff, doesn't mean you guys will. But, just be careful when using it, don't underestimate what that stuff can do in such a small dose, even if you cannot see it.

[BigPapaChakra]

That's why I kept saying I don't want to get off topic; my apologies if I seemed to ramble... regardless, nothing I said was 'snake oil'. You can search up anything I said if you wish, not that I didn't provide studies for HPPD related things when I was speaking directly to another member of this thread with HPPD. Additionally, I'm not the only member of this thread who has HPPD - there are 3 of us as far as I know, with an additional person (kieran) having a largely associated 'co-morbid' disorder. What I posted was to do nothing but help.

I haven't seen anyone outside of kieran post any information relevant to the topic anyhow for quite some time now. As I said, I'm willing to discuss jdtic in terms of its scientific evidence in depth on this thread, but it seems as though everyone is simply waiting for their batch to come around so they can then exclaim as to how well the compound did or didn't work for them while us others wait.

[celebes]

This isn't the HPPD thread period. If there are 3 people with HPPD all the more reason to create a thread specifically addressing that.

The thread already being derailed by Kieran's being scammed is not a compelling reason for you to have at it.

[BigPapaChakra]

In fact, everything I posted when not about jdtic was directed towards a specific member with a simple recommendation - naltrexone, naloxone, and negative ions; and the negative ions comment was shorter than the others, which, although about HPPD, are related to jdtic in that they can offer releif to similar problems that some people here are suffering fom and one other person even made reference to naloxone.

[KieranA001]

This isn't the HPPD thread period. If there are 3 people with HPPD all the more reason to create a thread specifically addressing that.

The thread already being derailed by Kieran's being scammed is not a compelling reason for you to have at it.

How was this topic about JDTic derailed by me "apparently" being scammed. It's all related to JDTic and I just wanted to give everyone my review, and experiences with JDTic.

[BigPapaChakra]

My bad, I didn't realize this was your thread. I also didn't realize that 3 comments made in an attempt to offer aid to people who are having troubles was a negative thing. It's not as though anyone at all has been contributing anything worthy in the past some odd pages of this thread outside of the occasional beratement and ridicule.

Kieran, it's not being derailed by you. If it is being derailed at all it's on the individual who can't sift through material they find relevant or not rather than commenting a dozen times with slanderous statements. I openly agreed before and said I was skeptical of what you received, but by no means did you derail the thread.

[celebes]

Naltrexone was relevant, lamotrigine and crystals were not.

If you want to communicate with a specific member on an unrelated topic create another thread or use PMs. Or do you think there should be one big thread where everyone talks about everything?

I'm not going to comment further on this topic, we've veered far enough already.

[socialpiranha]

kieran i'm not going to speculate on your experience anymore but suffice to say you nor I actually know what it was so let's not pretend we do. Even when i get mine i won't be sure until/unless it's tested.

Fair enough. Well if they've both come from MedChem Express I'm sure it will be JDTic ? Because they're a well-known company ? :-)

Just because I have had a bad experience with the stuff, doesn't mean you guys will. But, just be careful when using it, don't underestimate what that stuff can do in such a small dose, even if you cannot see it.

We haven't established that it did come from medchem and even if it did they are not a well known company they are actually a very small company owned by a small company in china so who knows,

there have been studies that found 70% of what is being sold as drugs and supplements online is something other than what it is being sold as, so you have to be very skeptical and careful.

[BigPapaChakra]

Naltrexone was relevant, lamotrigine and crystals were not.

If you want to communicate with a specific member on an unrelated topic create another thread or use PMs. Or do you think there should be one big thread where everyone talks about everything?

I'm not going to comment further on this topic, we've veered far enough already.

If you're operating under this Modus operandi, then why say:

Just to add my experience with iboga: I started taking root powder micro/mini-doses after it came up on this thread. During the 'trips' I did have my emotions and vitality substantially come back, letting me feel like 'myself' albeit with visual distortions/hallucinations going on. Afterwards though, much like Missjess, it left me increasingly numb, empty, blank, with serious avolition, worsened cognition, and physically weaker. Conversely, it did improve my vision a lot, with everything more vivid and widescreen. Yet too numb to enjoy or even register much from visual stimulation.

The afterglow being the precise opposite of the trip chimes with receptor re-regulation going on... but apparently the wrong ones, at least for trauma/DP/DR/schizoid symptoms. Maybe addiction isn't as similar biochemically as we've somewhat assumed? If my experience is representative, the afterglow is virtually the opposite of Salvia's which gave me my feelings back for a year with one trip.

Even writing this much has taken me 4 times longer than it would have a couple months ago.

when you could've sent that message to missjess personally or left it out? I did essentially the same thing - offered what I saw as my experience and knowledge to someone directly in a thread, when the rest of my posts before and after were all about jdtic and my interest and/or skepticism. In fact, only formergenius and addx (or whatever the username was) contributed much anything in terms of scientific knowledge around KOR and jdtic, outside of a few posts by socialpiranha. Everyone who was contributing in the beginning dropped out now.

The topics I was speaking about were related, again, as I said multiple people have the same problems and not only that, others have very similar problems that can be treated or managed the same way; therefore, relativity is present. If this thread weren't for communication, why is it not private at this point? I'm assuming there are a few people outside of socialpiranha receiving the compound, so, if those individuals don't want others coming in here and inquiring about things, why not create a private group??? That was done for NSI and it's working out okay...

Edited by BigPapaChakra, 23 February 2014 - 09:33 AM.

[celebes]

Yes, one comment sharing an experience with a KOR agonist while its effects were being discussed by everyone is essentially the same as what you are doing. Please, feel free to continue rambling. I won't be replying.

[socialpiranha]

Bigpapachakra There's nothing wrong with veering off topic every once in a while you just happened to come in at a time when there was too much of it going on already. All i have been doing lately is trying to do damage control so the thread doesn't get totally derailed by unsubstantiated claims, scammers and trolls. Any pharmacological discussion involving the effect of kappa antagonism is welcomed, anything beyond that is subject to the general opinion at the time.

[KieranA001]

kieran i'm not going to speculate on your experience anymore but suffice to say you nor I actually know what it was so let's not pretend we do. Even when i get mine i won't be sure until/unless it's tested.

Fair enough. Well if they've both come from MedChem Express I'm sure it will be JDTic ? Because they're a well-known company ? :-)

Just because I have had a bad experience with the stuff, doesn't mean you guys will. But, just be careful when using it, don't underestimate what that stuff can do in such a small dose, even if you cannot see it.

We haven't established that it did come from medchem and even if it did they are not a well known company they are actually a very small company owned by a small company in china so who knows,

there have been studies that found 70% of what is being sold as drugs and supplements online is something other than what it is being sold as, so you have to be very skeptical and careful.

Okay that's fair enough. I won't and am not going to use that stuff anymore anyway. If you are curious as to what it is, even though I strongly believe it is JDTic, then I'll send it off to get it tested, although I have no idea where to send it too lol I still think a smaller dose would be more adequate, although I think it's fair to say that I value my life over this JDtic. A smaller dose would produce immediate effects while a higher dose would cause a bout of negative effects followed by the "after-glow". Although, the "after-glow" didn't really last that long for me.

[BigPapaChakra]

Well, as far as I can see, only one person spoke out against my 'off topic-ness' and two others showed interest; the one who had a problem with it called it snake-oil, which I'm assuming is due to a mention of crystals, although the premise of my comment was about negative ions, that which has no less information than Iboga, the same compound which celebes consumed. I can just as easily claim "Iboga curing psychological problems is snake oil", and despite evidence against that claim, the fact that it screwed with at least two posters on this thread is significant enough.

No worries though, I can stop posting at the thread if you guys wish. I don't mean to 'derail' anything. It's not as though I'll have any chance to test out jdtic anytime soon, anyhow, as only a fraction of the members of this thread are receiving it. Although I sincerely think jdtic in combination with other modalities would offer me relief of my current set of symptoms, I'm assuming there's no chance of me purchasing any. I'll just spend my time attempting to acquire whatever's leftover from the NSI group buy. I wish for you guys soon to be experimenting with this substance the best of luck and hopefully profound results!

[celebes]

I'll send it off to get it tested, although I have no idea where to send it too lol

http://www.cansfordlabs.co.uk/
http://www.drugtestingclinics.co.uk/
etc

[Sinter]

I don't believe they are - as I said there is a decent amount of clinical literature backing up the technology/idea/whatever term you want to apply (not that it really matters, there is undoubtedly a lot of flawed clinical literature, but it does help when there is evidence behind something). I have no experience with them.... yet. The BioMat Pro that I'm about to receive incorporates negative ions and crystals such as tourmaline and amethyst. The main thing I wanted was simply the far infrared light but the rest is a decent bonus with studies showing decreased anxiety, decreased salivary markers of stress, and both clinical and anecdotal reports of increased mood, sometimes lasting, controllable euphoria. I should have the mat sometime next week and I'm hoping it lives up to the hype, especially for my younger brothers sake (even if it didn't help my HPPD or enhance my well-being/performance/consciousness in some sense, yet aided my younger brother, I'd be more than relieved). The only thing keeping me skeptical is my experience with the company thus far - not only do they operate on those weird scheming pyramid models, but there were already 2 or 3 mix ups with my order.

That sounds awesome BigPapa.

I have heard that amethyst does wonders, but its a tad bit expensive for me.

Do you thinkg quartz would work too? I have a cheap wristwatch that broke and it says "quartz crystal" on it. Do you think if I opened it up and dissolved the quartz crystal in water it could help me? The watch seems clean, but I would filter it before drinking for extra purity.

[tritium]

What Kieran used WAS IN FACT JDTic. I experienced very similar symptoms when I tried mine. Wherever he received it is legitimate. Why would two different people make up stories about negative experiences about JDTic? You all just don't want people to hear the negative reviews since you want to keep the group buy going. It is just mere speculation that what he used was not JDTic – you have no evidence to prove otherwise. I’ll be laughing at you all when you throw two thousand dollars down the drain – the same as when I was laughing when you mistakenly thought I was missjess!

[Jbac]

Looks like our arch-nemesis Tritium the Trickster is back to taunt us, even though we killed him off 30 episodes ago. Missjess turned into a villian completely out of left field, and bigpapachakra is trying to derail our journey with his crystal side-quest bullshit. We're clearly stuck in a filler arc, owing to the plot holes, bad writing, and poor character development, and the audience knows it. Let's just blow these guys up and move on already, Group Buy Bots, roll out!!