196 replies to this topic

[NDM]

Well, I'm taking daily about a dozen of the supps in your last table, and yet my hair keeps graying and the wrinkles on my face keep getting deeper...

[solarfingers]

Well, I'm taking daily about a dozen of the supps in your last table, and yet my hair keeps graying and the wrinkles on my face keep getting deeper...

Curious, which ones and how long and what quantities are you taking?

[solarfingers]

Only three on this list are purported to be AGE breakers. The rest are inhibitors. I think it is a bit of propaganda to say they will remove your wrinkles. I believe hair thinning and graying are totally separate processes from AGEs so lets move on to discussing wrinkles. I wonder how efficient inhibitors are if we take them and still load our bodies full of sugars. One of the downside I have noticed is that I am more hungry on them and tend to eat more. I'm working on curbing this because it seems counter productive. As far as the AGE breakers, it is doubtful that we can get enough of them without some toxicity. I am experimenting with high levels of L-Carnosine and am taking Tourine and Histinine to counter their loses due to high levels of Carnosine. I've been doing this for the last three weeks. What I am experiencing is that my skin is getting very supple and the skin on my forehead and face is no longer thin and seems to be getting thicker. Good? Not sure. The net effect is that the wrinkles on my forehead which were barely visible before are quite apparent and deep. I can also see more wrinkles around my eyes. I was telling my wife this morning it looked like a sunburn without the glow. I'm after a healthy body so I'm not too sure how I feel about deeper wrinkles... All this in just three weeks so it's a fair bet something is happening.

[NDM]

I no longer take Alcar and aspirin, but used to, especially Alcar (500mg/day).

I still take 15 on that list: BHT 100mg daily, Bioflavonoids daily, Chromium every other day, Q10 100mg daily, Carnosine 1g daily, Taurine 1g daily, Lysine 1g daily, Lipoic 150mg daily, NAC 500mg daily, PABA 100mg daily, Rosemary 2 capsules daily, Selenium 100mg daily, B6 50mg (2days yes, 1 day no), vit C 1 g daily, and vit E 50mg daily.

Funny thing, I also take hyaluronic acid with chondroitin, so you'd expect Brad Pitt-level results, but aging marches forward triumphantly, laughing at me
Oc course, to prove ineffectiveness, I would need a clone who does everything I do but doesn't take these...maybe that hypothetical clone is even older-looking.

I guess a room for improvement is the diet...lately I have eaten way too much fresh fruit (I got a grocery store next to me that excels in terms of fruit variety, freshness, and ease of use - they peel the kiwi for you...hard for me to abstain).

[solarfingers]

I've been wondering about fruit. From what I've read fructose is a major contributor to AGEs. There are so many good things to attribute to fruit I don't know what to think about that. You're taking allot of Carnosine and a healthy dose of PABA which of both are known AGE breakers. The Carnosine is chewed up by the body quickly in the body so I'm not too sure what the effective AGE breaking dose would be so I'm taking 2,000 mg a day with Taurine and Histinine. The dosage of PABA likely will work well as an inhibitor but at those levels I doubt it will do anything as a productive AGE breaker. PABA at higher levels cause some unwanted toxicity and I'm not sure how to counter it.

You seem to be taking a good number of AGE inhibitors but if you want any renewal you need to do something to activate stem cell proliferation. I'm certainly no expert here. Anecdotal evidence shows that telomerase activation is a key to this area. Logic swears by Epitalon and says it has made him look 10 years younger. I do know that Blueberry extract with Carnonsine will encourage to help stem cell proliferation. Benfotiamine is really the only other safe bet and there are some issues with it at high dosages. I have read that B6 is safer than Benfotiamine and more productive but I haven't had time to research it deep enough to form a conclusion. ALT-711 is the only proven AGE breaking drug and it is expensive. It only works on the heart and cardiovascular system.

Edited by solarfingers, 25 June 2013 - 04:03 PM.

[scottknl]

I'm rather like NDM with a dozen or so of the substances in my daily routine. I don't have the asprin or L-Carnatine. I've been taking this
500 mg Taurine
rutin from orange peel (no sugar)
Astragalus (5g powdered root per day)
blueberries (60 g+ per day)
Resveratrol (20 mg / day)
curcumin occasionally
ECGC thru green tea (3 cups a day)
Vitamin C & E thru CR diet ~130% RDA
He shou wu 15 g per day processed root powdered
vitamin D3 5200 IUI per day
caffiene from the green tea
cinnamon 1g per day
creatine 5g before each exercise session 3x per week usually
melatonin 3 mg occasionally
zinc 15 mg per day

I also take a few other things for hair preservation like 5000 mg biotin, and Ginko Bilboa daily.
For me it's made a big reduction in the hair loss and greying. I've also seen a change in my skin with less roughness and a more supple feel with my routine of rubbing a drop or two of olive oil on it every day.

In particular my 1 large mouse experiment has shown that limiting sugars has had a good effect in reducing the skin degradation. I only have 250 g of fruit which is mostly blueberries and strawberries and cantaloupe. Otherwise no sugar or other sweet fruit in my diet. I've also reduced AGE's in my diet substantially as well. I eat mostly boiled soups and very lightly stir fried veggies. Are there any measurements or tests one might take to determine aging of skin?

[solarfingers]

scottknl,

It looks like you have some good choices there and I think sugar reduction (or caloric reduction) is the smart way to go for better looking skin and better health. Aspirin is kind of a red herring and it's only of novel interest. It's good for keeping the blood thin and prevention cholesterol buildup, blood clots, ect... I don't think it will be productive enough for telomere growth but it couldn't hurt. I'm with you, I just love fruit too much to let it go. I'm not sure how valid of an argument it is that it causes AGEs but from what I've read it is a major contributor. I would think that eating a bag of caramel would be a whole lot worse. Are you doing anything in the way of increasing your telomerase? I know I'll get clobbered for admitting it but I take a generic Propecia for hair loss. In a year I have gotten all of my loss back from two years ago. I'm hoping that with my new regemin I can forgo having to use this medication but till I see some evidence of new growth from it, I'm on it for life.

[Logic]

Aspirin may also help to prevent hair-loss:
http://www.longecity...n-for-hairloss/

Niacin ties in to this too by flushing PGD2 from cells, but the effect is stopped by Aspirin and the whole subject is cobfusing and needs more research.

Also L-Threonate and Ester-C are worth a look.
http://www.longecity...osteoarthritis/
http://www.longecity...post__p__587261

[scottknl]

scottknl,

It looks like you have some good choices there and I think sugar reduction (or caloric reduction) is the smart way to go for better looking skin and better health. Aspirin is kind of a red herring and it's only of novel interest. It's good for keeping the blood thin and prevention cholesterol buildup, blood clots, ect... I don't think it will be productive enough for telomere growth but it couldn't hurt. I'm with you, I just love fruit too much to let it go. I'm not sure how valid of an argument it is that it causes AGEs but from what I've read it is a major contributor. I would think that eating a bag of caramel would be a whole lot worse. Are you doing anything in the way of increasing your telomerase? I know I'll get clobbered for admitting it but I take a generic Propecia for hair loss. In a year I have gotten all of my loss back from two years ago. I'm hoping that with my new regemin I can forgo having to use this medication but till I see some evidence of new growth from it, I'm on it for life.

For telomerase I have astragalus as a '3A' activator and zinc as a 3 on your list. I take these in the morning. At night I take the resveratrol which is a telomere inhibitor according to your chart with some wine polyphenols. Now that I look at your chart and think about how the body repairs and renews tissues at night, maybe I should have my telomerase activators in the evening and the telomere inhibitors in the morning. The trouble with doing this is that I take the astragalus with oatmeal/nuts breakfast. I don't think it makes a nice relaxing tea before bedtime (cak!!). It doesn't make too much sense to have both telomere activators and Inhibitors at the same time. Any comments?

My hair loss isn't bad enough to justify using propecia, It seems to be stable now, but not growing back too much.

[niner]

You're taking allot of Carnosine and a healthy dose of PABA which of both are known AGE breakers.

The term "AGE breakers" needs some elaboration. There are some supplements that are being called AGE breakers, and I think what is meant by that is that they interfere with some phase of the series of reactions that lead to the final AGE. As such, it's not really right to call them "AGE breakers". Maybe something like "AGE intermediate sinks" or some such. Once the ultimate AGE is formed, we are really stuck, with the exception of ALT-711, although that only acts on a minority of the various types of AGEs.

You seem to be taking a good number of AGE inhibitors but if you want any renewal you need to do something to activate stem cell proliferation. I'm certainly no expert here. Anecdotal evidence shows that telomerase activation is a key to this area. Logic swears by Epitalon and says it has made him look 10 years younger. I do know that Blueberry extract with Carnonsine will encourage to help stem cell proliferation. Benfotiamine is really the only other safe bet and there are some issues with it at high dosages. I have read that B6 is safer than Benfotiamine and more productive but I haven't had time to research it deep enough to form a conclusion. ALT-711 is the only proven AGE breaking drug and it is expensive.

We've seen some cases of what appear to be stem cell differentiation caused by C60-oo. I think c60-oo belongs in any serious anti-aging regimen. I would trade all my other supplements for c60-oo, if it came to that. Now, about Epitalon... Did Logic actually say he looked 10 years younger? That's quite a claim. sciwalk posted before/after pictures about a year ago showing an apparent "age reversal", although he later seemed to be distancing himself from the claim. He was also selling Epitalon. I've been waiting for a Longecity person to come anywhere close to duplicating sciwalk's claim. Did Logic have any before/after pics?

It only works on the heart and cardiovascular system.

It no doubt shows some activity in these tissues, but it's not limited to them. It has definitely been shown to be effective in other tissues.

[solarfingers]

If been looking and other than the site that posted this graphic I can find no citation that claims Carsonine is an AGE breaker... In my opinion it does belong up there with C60-oo however:

Carnosine and Cell Rejuvenation

In a remarkable series of experiments, scientists at an Australian research institute have shown that carnosine rejuvenates cells as they approach senescence (McFarland GA, 1999; McFarland GA, 1994). The scientists cultured human fibroblasts (connective tissue cells) from the lung and the foreskin. Fibroblasts that went through many rounds of division, known as late-passage cells, displayed a disorganized, irregular appearance before ceasing to divide. Fibroblasts cultured with carnosine lived longer, retaining youthful appearance and growth patterns.

What is most exciting is the ability of carnosine to reverse the signs of aging in cells approaching senescence. When the scientists transferred late-passage fibroblasts to a culture medium containing carnosine, they exhibited a rejuvenated appearance and often an enhanced capacity to divide. They again grew in the characteristic whorled growth patterns of young fibroblasts, and resumed a uniform appearance. But when they transferred the fibroblasts back to a medium lacking carnosine, the signs of senescence quickly reappeared.

Imagine what it is doing along side c60-oo...

Logic didn't say if he had photos but he's in this thread. Perhaps he will chime in soon. He is counting the days till he can get his next order...

Edited by solarfingers, 26 June 2013 - 03:17 AM.

[sthira]

Thanks for all your work, solar. The science is not there yet to stop, slow, or even know what "aging" is yet. No one even agrees on a definition. But I feel like we're slowly approaching increased chemical awarenesses -- slowly, painfully getting our heads out of the darkness. Science is slow, and we are impatient. Yet until a time of "better understanding" clarifies (what, chemically, is aging?) consider "targeted" magical thinking. That is, we understand and respect placebo and the power of suggestion. The power of suggestion is what keeps the multi billion dollar supplement industry fat and rich. So why not use "visualization" or imagination to "pretend" a more youthful state by imagining what certain "effective" chemicals may be doing within your body? "See" these chemicals within you doing what you think they should do to slow the aging you want slowed. Continue to consume what you think may work (aspirin, metformin, rapamycin, resveratrol, c60-oo, whatever you think) but add quietly resting in the dark, and bringing together the chemical reactions within your body that "slow" the "aging" process.

As others have noted, we can consume all these of supplements and practice CR, and eat better diets, and exercise, and use sun screen, and fast, and wear seatbelts, and get healthy rest and sleep, and try to stay calm and happy in this crazy world of environmental chaos -- but no supplement, no lifestyle change, no calorie restriction appears to do much of anything (still people who are playing by the rules, doing all the "right things" still they are getting more gray, more bald, more wrinkled, more sick and diseased -- older).

So try targeted magical thinking. A magical thinking based on the science (we still don't understand). But maybe we're beginning to at least define what "aging" means on the chemistry level, and we can somehow imagine the chemical slow-down occurring within our own bodies? It's a psychological tool to add to your toolbox -- however strong, however weak, at least it's doing no harm.

[niner]

Thanks for all your work, solar. The science is not there yet to stop, slow, or even know what "aging" is yet. No one even agrees on a definition. But I feel like we're slowly approaching increased chemical awarenesses -- slowly, painfully getting our heads out of the darkness. Science is slow, and we are impatient. Yet until a time of "better understanding" clarifies (what, chemically, is aging?) consider "targeted" magical thinking. That is, we understand and respect placebo and the power of suggestion. The power of suggestion is what keeps the multi billion dollar supplement industry fat and rich. So why not use "visualization" or imagination to "pretend" a more youthful state by imagining what certain "effective" chemicals may be doing within your body? "See" these chemicals within you doing what you think they should do to slow the aging you want slowed. Continue to consume what you think may work (aspirin, metformin, rapamycin, resveratrol, c60-oo, whatever you think) but add quietly resting in the dark, and bringing together the chemical reactions within your body that "slow" the "aging" process.

I disagree with the initial premise. We can't stop aging, but we can certainly speed it up or slow it down by changes in our lifestyle, diet, and substance use. We certainly know what the bulk of it is- That's what SENS is all about. There's nothing wrong with adding visualization or meditation to your regimen, though. It's unlikely to hurt, and done properly, meditation would probably help.

[solarfingers]

Thanks for all your work, solar. The science is not there yet to stop, slow, or even know what "aging" is yet. No one even agrees on a definition. But I feel like we're slowly approaching increased chemical awarenesses -- slowly, painfully getting our heads out of the darkness. Science is slow, and we are impatient. Yet until a time of "better understanding" clarifies (what, chemically, is aging?) consider "targeted" magical thinking. That is, we understand and respect placebo and the power of suggestion. The power of suggestion is what keeps the multi billion dollar supplement industry fat and rich. So why not use "visualization" or imagination to "pretend" a more youthful state by imagining what certain "effective" chemicals may be doing within your body? "See" these chemicals within you doing what you think they should do to slow the aging you want slowed. Continue to consume what you think may work (aspirin, metformin, rapamycin, resveratrol, c60-oo, whatever you think) but add quietly resting in the dark, and bringing together the chemical reactions within your body that "slow" the "aging" process.

As others have noted, we can consume all these of supplements and practice CR, and eat better diets, and exercise, and use sun screen, and fast, and wear seatbelts, and get healthy rest and sleep, and try to stay calm and happy in this crazy world of environmental chaos -- but no supplement, no lifestyle change, no calorie restriction appears to do much of anything (still people who are playing by the rules, doing all the "right things" still they are getting more gray, more bald, more wrinkled, more sick and diseased -- older).

So try targeted magical thinking. A magical thinking based on the science (we still don't understand). But maybe we're beginning to at least define what "aging" means on the chemistry level, and we can somehow imagine the chemical slow-down occurring within our own bodies? It's a psychological tool to add to your toolbox -- however strong, however weak, at least it's doing no harm.

I appreciate your input and I do believe in the power of positive thinking. There have been some interesting quantum experiments that suggest that at some level reality as we know it is merely based on perception. I do disagree with you on the science of aging and believe there is more than enough clinical and anecdotal evidence that proves your premise to be incorrect. However, I do agree that it is solely your right and responsibility to make a decision concerning your own health and what you put in your body. There is certainly allot of placebo effect going around but that doesn't mean that something positive is not going on using supplements.

Thanks...

[solarfingers]

We've seen some cases of what appear to be stem cell differentiation caused by C60-oo. I think c60-oo belongs in any serious anti-aging regimen. I would trade all my other supplements for c60-oo, if it came to that. Now, about Epitalon... Did Logic actually say he looked 10 years younger? That's quite a claim. sciwalk posted before/after pictures about a year ago showing an apparent "age reversal", although he later seemed to be distancing himself from the claim. He was also selling Epitalon. I've been waiting for a Longecity person to come anywhere close to duplicating sciwalk's claim. Did Logic have any before/after pics?

Logic, Niner, I must apologize... I think I misunderstood what Logic was saying about Epitalon.

I took Epitalon and C60oo at the same time and can say that I have not looked or felt better in 15 years.

Logic certainly has my attention with Epitalon however.

[Logic]

Yes; while I did look better I did not take it for nearly as long as Sciwalk and believe it synergised very well with C60oo to improve mood, cognition and energy.
I can also say that people who had not seen me in 2 years took a step back in shock before exclaiming how good I looked.
I was also getting smiles etc from 20 something year-old ladies which has not happened in 10 to 15 years.

I also took a telomerase activation stack at the same time.
I don't know whether the C60oo and Epitalon synergised with that too to make it more effective but can say that the same stack does not seem to be nearly as effective without C60oo and Epitalon.

IMHO Epitalon (in combination with C60oo??) certainly does work!

Edited by Logic, 26 June 2013 - 03:32 PM.

[niner]

Yes; while I did look better I did not take it for nearly as long as Sciwalk and believe it synergised very well with C60oo to improve mood, cognition and energy.
I can also say that people who had not seen me in 2 years took a step back in shock before exclaiming how good I looked.
I was also getting smiles etc from 20 something year-old ladies which has not happened in 10 to 15 years.

I also took a telomerase activation stack at the same time.
I don't know whether the C60oo and Epitalon synergised with that too to make it more effective but can say that the same stack does not seem to be nearly as effective without C60oo and Epitalon.

IMHO Epitalon (in combination with C60oo??) certainly does work!

Do you have a sense of what aspects of your appearance changed? Are you still taking Epitalon? I have to say, I have my eye on this one...

[solarfingers]

scottknl,

It looks like you have some good choices there and I think sugar reduction (or caloric reduction) is the smart way to go for better looking skin and better health. Aspirin is kind of a red herring and it's only of novel interest. It's good for keeping the blood thin and prevention cholesterol buildup, blood clots, ect... I don't think it will be productive enough for telomere growth but it couldn't hurt. I'm with you, I just love fruit too much to let it go. I'm not sure how valid of an argument it is that it causes AGEs but from what I've read it is a major contributor. I would think that eating a bag of caramel would be a whole lot worse. Are you doing anything in the way of increasing your telomerase? I know I'll get clobbered for admitting it but I take a generic Propecia for hair loss. In a year I have gotten all of my loss back from two years ago. I'm hoping that with my new regemin I can forgo having to use this medication but till I see some evidence of new growth from it, I'm on it for life.

For telomerase I have astragalus as a '3A' activator and zinc as a 3 on your list. I take these in the morning. At night I take the resveratrol which is a telomere inhibitor according to your chart with some wine polyphenols. Now that I look at your chart and think about how the body repairs and renews tissues at night, maybe I should have my telomerase activators in the evening and the telomere inhibitors in the morning. The trouble with doing this is that I take the astragalus with oatmeal/nuts breakfast. I don't think it makes a nice relaxing tea before bedtime (cak!!). It doesn't make too much sense to have both telomere activators and Inhibitors at the same time. Any comments?

My hair loss isn't bad enough to justify using propecia, It seems to be stable now, but not growing back too much.

Astragalus is known to make you sleepy. I had a hard time when I started because of this. The Resveratrol is more likely the culprit toward making you more awake at night. I feel much more energetic when I'm taking resveratrol. I have thought about what a night-time cycle might look out but haven't really formulated any opinions on it. I take either Maletonin or L-tryptophan as a sleep aid. As far as having activators and inhibitors at the same time... I'm still working through that one. I'm not sure I have a full understanding of it and want to study and think about it some more. I have been pretty opinionated about it but Logic and I have had some off thread discussions and I am teetering to the other side. As for now I'm two weeks on activators and two weeks on inhibitors follow James Greens example but that will likely change over the next two weeks.

[niner]

It doesn't make too much sense to have both telomere activators and Inhibitors at the same time. Any comments?

You need to ask yourself what is the evidence for the alleged inhibition (or activation) of telomerase. An awful lot of it is from in vitro experiments that combine high concentrations with long exposure times, both of which are impossible to achieve in the body for many natural products. If the telomerase inhibition occurs in cancer cells with constitutively active telomerase, is that even relevant to a normal cell? I don't know the answer to that, but I'm suspicious that the answer is "probably not". We would like to see data in humans, rather than cells in culture. We have this for cycloastragenol, and have evidence that it reduces the fraction of short telomeres. On the other hand, I don't recall seeing any in vivo evidence that these various natural products show significant telomerase inhibition in humans. I wouldn't worry too much about alleged telomerase inhibitors. I think they're unlikely to have much real activity.

[Logic]

Do you have a sense of what aspects of your appearance changed? Are you still taking Epitalon? I have to say, I have my eye on this one...

I think my skin just looked younger:
Less saggy, eye rings and bags less prominent, better complexion/colour.
My hair stayed the same, with perhaps a slowing in the greying process, but don't quote me on that.
My receding hairline seemed to stop before the combo, probably due to my stack and the stuff I add to my shampoo etc. I saw no change.

Let me add that a large part of looking younger is feeling younger.
I'm sure that the placebo effect played its part in this.
I was positive, smiling, on top of things and 'Can Do!'
And I did do!
It was one hell of a party!

I also spent way more time in the gym due too the energy and mindset.

I think that one may have to stay on a maintenance of a gram once the Epitalon has done what it can.
This is based on how I look and feel now.
I did cycle Epitalon with gaps of a week or so when the vial ran out.
I finished about 2.5 vials. (sharing)

I was also taking 1 mg of lithium orotate per day up until the end of December which may have had an effect on my mood. Lithium is now unavailable without prescription. I'm hoping Ester-C will have a similar effect.

[solarfingers]

It doesn't make too much sense to have both telomere activators and Inhibitors at the same time. Any comments?

You need to ask yourself what is the evidence for the alleged inhibition (or activation) of telomerase. An awful lot of it is from in vitro experiments that combine high concentrations with long exposure times, both of which are impossible to achieve in the body for many natural products. If the telomerase inhibition occurs in cancer cells with constitutively active telomerase, is that even relevant to a normal cell? I don't know the answer to that, but I'm suspicious that the answer is "probably not". We would like to see data in humans, rather than cells in culture. We have this for cycloastragenol, and have evidence that it reduces the fraction of short telomeres. On the other hand, I don't recall seeing any in vivo evidence that these various natural products show significant telomerase inhibition in humans. I wouldn't worry too much about alleged telomerase inhibitors. I think they're unlikely to have much real activity.

Thank you... I'm off for a week and will be pondering this deeply....

[niner]

Do you have a sense of what aspects of your appearance changed? Are you still taking Epitalon? I have to say, I have my eye on this one...

I think my skin just looked younger:
Less saggy, eye rings and bags less prominent, better complexion/colour.
My hair stayed the same, with perhaps a slowing in the greying process, but don't quote me on that.
My receding hairline seemed to stop before the combo, probably due to my stack and the stuff I add to my shampoo etc. I saw no change.

Let me add that a large part of looking younger is feeling younger.
I'm sure that the placebo effect played its part in this.
I was positive, smiling, on top of things and 'Can Do!'
And I did do!
It was one hell of a party!

I also spent way more time in the gym due too the energy and mindset.

I think that one may have to stay on a maintenance of a gram once the Epitalon has done what it can.
This is based on how I look and feel now.
I did cycle Epitalon with gaps of a week or so when the vial ran out.
I finished about 2.5 vials. (sharing)

I was also taking 1 mg of lithium orotate per day up until the end of December which may have had an effect on my mood. Lithium is now unavailable without prescription. I'm hoping Ester-C will have a similar effect.

Sounds pretty good. Are you getting some more in the current group purchases?

I can't believe that they made 1mg doses of lithium prescription-only. That is really dumb. Vimmortal (Longecity-designed multivitamin) would be illegal in SA now, if it was still available. I really don't see ester-C replacing lithium orotate.

Edited by niner, 26 June 2013 - 09:37 PM.

[Logic]

Sounds pretty good. Are you getting some more in the current group purchases?

I can't believe that they made 1mg doses of lithium prescription-only. That is really dumb. Vimmortal (Longecity-designed multivitamin) would be illegal in SA now, if it was still available. I really don't see ester-C replacing lithium orotate.

Supps are becoming illegal quietly, one at a time, all over the world Niner.
It worries the crap out of me that everyone likes to turn a blind eye to this fact.

As for ester-C: I do hope it has a similar effect:
http://www.longecity...post__p__591491

[niner]

Supps are becoming illegal quietly, one at a time, all over the world Niner.
It worries the crap out of me that everyone likes to turn a blind eye to this fact.

As for ester-C: I do hope it has a similar effect:
http://www.longecity...post__p__591491

Because of its relationship to threonate? We don't know if the effect of milligram doses is due to the same mechanism as the high dose therapeutic regimen. It may well be different.

As far as legal restrictions, it could be argued that lithium was already being used as a prescription drug before it was available on the supplement market. Aside from a case where a company was claiming that a supplement violated their patent, I don't see supplements being made illegal in the US. There are a lot of other jurisdictions in the world, though.

[Logic]

Supps are becoming illegal quietly, one at a time, all over the world Niner.
It worries the crap out of me that everyone likes to turn a blind eye to this fact.

As for ester-C: I do hope it has a similar effect:
http://www.longecity...post__p__591491

Because of its relationship to threonate? We don't know if the effect of milligram doses is due to the same mechanism as the high dose therapeutic regimen. It may well be different.

Yes; ESTER-C contains L-Threonate which seems to affect the WNT and DKK1 pathway in the same way.
You have a good point about low and high doses often having completely different effects.
I have found a local scource of ESTER-C and will by starting to take it soon and will report.

As far as legal restrictions, it could be argued that lithium was already being used as a prescription drug before it was available on the supplement market. Aside from a case where a company was claiming that a supplement violated their patent, I don't see supplements being made illegal in the US. There are a lot of other jurisdictions in the world, though.

I have only recently become worried about GMOs, Codex Alimentarius etc. and its a very difficult subject to get to the bottom of.
Probably the best info I have found so far is from the Alliance for Natural Health:
http://www.longecity...post__p__596428

[JR7]

Wow, absolutely phenomenal thread and admittedly well beyond my level of knowledge. I am more involved in sports nutrition which in many ways seems to be against the flow of life extension.
If I could narrow the supplement list to a bare minimum, what may I ask would they be?

Thank you very much for this thread!

Edited by Jreinhal, 02 July 2013 - 04:44 AM.

[solarfingers]

Sorry everyone... I've been on a five day road trip with my son.

Wow, absolutely phenomenal thread and admittedly well beyond my level of knowledge. I am more involved in sports nutrition which in many ways seems to be against the flow of life extension.

Thank you Jreinhal... I am no expert here. I'm merely trying to use an informed process to determine the best course of supplements for health and longevity.

If I could narrow the supplement list to a bare minimum, what may I ask would they be?

Well, I am working on it. I would have to guess that L-carnosine should be a major supplement in your regimen. It's the first thing that I've taken that shows some physical results. I would think that if you are seeing external positive results that you are going to have internal ones as well. Then the eight supplements that Vince suggested for silencing gene expressions that lead to cancer: EGCG, Curcumin, Resveratrol, SAMe, EVOO, PQQ, Fish Oil and Fisetin. I believe Alpha Lipoic Acid and ALCAR will have some good synergistic effects and should be added to any regimen. Also, I am leaning very heavily toward Blue Berry Extracts to help with stem cell proliferation yet want to do more studying on it.

Then you might want to consider something for keeping your cell telomeres from shortening. There are a few vendors who are selling extracts yet I am no expert at these. You can search the threads for telomeres and will find a great deal of discussion. I am taking mostly raw Astragalus and Milk Thistle Seed powders in this quest. This is another area that I am researching and still trying to come to some fruitful conclusions. Milk Thistle Seed powder or extracts will help to detoxify the liver as well which is generally a good thing.

I am a firm believer in juicing and eating raw vegetables... As many varieties as possible. You will get a number of helpful things from juicing to include many essential vitamins and minerals. Most importantly are the enzymes. I think that enzymes need a whole thread of discussion in themselves since we need healthy enzymatic processes at the cellular level for energizing mitochondria and helping the body to deal with intracellular garbage.

Aside from these a good multivitamin with essential minerals would be a good bet. I'm looking forward to someone who is going to pick-up the manufacturing of Longecity's multivitamin again.

On the experimental side c60-oo might provide long range benefits but it would be hard to quantify what those are.

My guess is that you have a good grip on diet and exercise because of your involvement in sports nutrition so there is no need to say anything except that it is very important if you want to live a healthy, long life.

I wish I could nail down a solid regimen for you but I am only getting started. I think that all of the supplements on the list have good properties and could be helpful. I'm thinking I will eventually break the whole thing down into three different regimens based on cost. This way you can tailor the best one that will fit your budget. I am very sensitive to the idea of poverty by supplementation.

Thank you very much for this thread!

One is happy to serve...

Edited by solarfingers, 02 July 2013 - 08:08 PM.

[solarfingers]

Oh happy day! Mind has granted me moderator privileges in this forum so that I can keep the spreadsheet up-to-date!

Thank you Mind!

[solarfingers]

I found this researching today and think it fits well into this discussion of supplementation and telomeres. My initial search was in response to this article which describes the function of folate and polyphenols in regulating telomere length.

Targeted Nutrients and Foods Increase DNA Methylation to Maintain Telomere Length

Researchers reporting in The Journal of Nutrition found that men with the highest levels of folate in their blood have the longest telomeres when compared to those with the lowest levels. In addition to folate (800 mcg each day), vitamin B12 (500 to 1000 mcg daily) and the entire B-vitamin family are associated with longer telomeres. Sulfur-enriched proteins from nuts and seeds are also important methyl group donors.

This is the first time I have heard of Folate and it seems to have a prominent position in the lengthening of telomeres.

Independent research projects have concluded that the minerals zinc (25 to 50 mg per day) and magnesium (400 to 800 mg each day) are necessary to accurately complete DNA sequencing during cell replication. A lack of these cofactors leads to DNA strand breakage, premature cell destruction and acceleration of the aging process. Vitamin C (1 to 3 grams per day) has been shown to slow the loss of telomeres in human vascular endothelial cells, an important element in preventing cardiovascular disease. Vitamin E tocotrienols (400 mg per day of a full-spectrum supplement) have been shown to restore the length of telomeres while reducing DNA damage, making it possible for a nutrient to reverse the shortening of telomeres and reverse an underlying cause of aging.

This is some valuable information which I believe should be considered when weighing supplementation.

Stress and inflammation are two controllable factors that independently shorten telomere length and increase cell aging. Stress management is essential to lower the release of chemical messengers that fuel the flames of inflammation. Additionally, researchers have identified a host of polyphenol compounds (resveratrol, grape seed extract and curcumin) that lower systemic inflammation, help to maintain telomere length and extend healthy lifespan.

I'm still thinking about the role of polyphenols and telomere inhibitors in relation to growing and maintaining telomere length.

[JR7]

Sorry everyone... I've been on a five day road trip with my son.

Wow, absolutely phenomenal thread and admittedly well beyond my level of knowledge. I am more involved in sports nutrition which in many ways seems to be against the flow of life extension.

Thank you Jreinhal... I am no expert here. I'm merely trying to use an informed process to determine the best course of supplements for health and longevity.

If I could narrow the supplement list to a bare minimum, what may I ask would they be?

Well, I am working on it. I would have to guess that L-carnosine should be a major supplement in your regimen. It's the first thing that I've taken that shows some physical results. I would think that if you are seeing external positive results that you are going to have internal ones as well. Then the eight supplements that Vince suggested for silencing gene expressions that lead to cancer: EGCG, Curcumin, Resveratrol, SAMe, EVOO, PQQ, Fish Oil and Fisetin. I believe Alpha Lipoic Acid and ALCAR will have some good synergistic effects and should be added to any regimen. Also, I am leaning very heavily toward Blue Berry Extracts to help with stem cell proliferation yet want to do more studying on it.

Then you might want to consider something for keeping your cell telomeres from shortening. There are a few vendors who are selling extracts yet I am no expert at these. You can search the threads for telomeres and will find a great deal of discussion. I am taking mostly raw Astragalus and Milk Thistle Seed powders in this quest. This is another area that I am researching and still trying to come to some fruitful conclusions. Milk Thistle Seed powder or extracts will help to detoxify the liver as well which is generally a good thing.

I am a firm believer in juicing and eating raw vegetables... As many varieties as possible. You will get a number of helpful things from juicing to include many essential vitamins and minerals. Most importantly are the enzymes. I think that enzymes need a whole thread of discussion in themselves since we need healthy enzymatic processes at the cellular level for energizing mitochondria and helping the body to deal with intracellular garbage.

Aside from these a good multivitamin with essential minerals would be a good bet. I'm looking forward to someone who is going to pick-up the manufacturing of Longecity's multivitamin again.

On the experimental side c60-oo might provide long range benefits but it would be hard to quantify what those are.

My guess is that you have a good grip on diet and exercise because of your involvement in sports nutrition so there is no need to say anything except that it is very important if you want to live a healthy, long life.

I wish I could nail down a solid regimen for you but I am only getting started. I think that all of the supplements on the list have good properties and could be helpful. I'm thinking I will eventually break the whole thing down into three different regimens based on cost. This way you can tailor the best one that will fit your budget. I am very sensitive to the idea of poverty by supplementation.

Thank you very much for this thread!

One is happy to serve...

This is PERFECT! Thank you. My next question would be dosing. If I were to get the supplements listed, would I take them daily without a break? Do you suggest splitting them up into cycles? Or just going supplement free a couple days a week?