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Supplementation Choices Based on the 7 SENS Research Foundation Targets

supplementation sens organization 7 targets nootropic telomeres

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#1 solarfingers

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 04:47 AM


I have created this matrix based on the SENS Organization's "A Reimagined Research Strategy for Aging." The idea is to identify supplements that will act as prevention or reversal of the 7 areas as suggested by SENS to have the greatest impact on aging. I have chosen the following supplements based upon a cursory search on the internet. I am presenting it for discussion and refining. Please feel free to recommend supplements I have not included and provide any citations that you believe will support any claims. This is a working document and I expect that it will be changed and revised based upon community input.

 

Also note that the rating system needs to be more clarified. The ratings do not rate the supplements against each other. I would be willing to hear any suggestions as to how to rate them.

The ranking 1-3 rates the reliability of the information sources.

The ranking A-C rates the effectiveness in inhibition or prevention and reversal if possible.

These rankings were compiled pretty much on the fly as I examined these supplements and need finer revision and clarification. I'm working on it.

 

Edited July 6, 2013

 

Supplement
Repleni SENS
Onco SENS
Mito SENS
Apopto SENS
Glyco SENS
Amylo SENS
Lyso SENS
Noot
Telomere Inhibitor
Telomere Protector

Telomere Activator

0
2
3B
0
3A
3A
3B
3C
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
3A
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
1
0
2
3A
3B
3C
0
0
0
3A
3B
3B
3
3
0
0
0
0
0
0
3A
1
3A
3A
1
0
0
1
0
0
3A
0
L-Carnosine (2) ! #
3A
2
3
3
3A
0
0
0
0
3B
0
Blueberry Extract (2)
3A
2
2
2
2
2
0
2
0
2
0
Resveratrol (5)(6) #
3B
3A
3A
3
0
0
0
1
3A
2
Ginseng Extract
3C
3B
3
3
2
3B
0
2
0
3
0
Curcumin (6) #
2
3A
0
0
0
3B
0
1
3
0
0
Milk Thistle
0
3B
0
3
0
3B
0
0
3A
0
0
(EGCG) (5)(6) #
3B
3A
3
3
3B
3B
0
2
3B
0
0
Quercetin #
0
3B
3A
3
0
3C
3
2
3B
0
0
Alpha Lipoic Acid (1) #
2
3B
3
3
3A
0
3
3
0
3
0

ALCAR (1) #

0
0
3
3
0
3B
0
3
0
3
0
Coenzyme Q10 (1) #
3C
3B
3
0
3C
2
3
0
0
3
0
Vitamine C #
3B
3B
3
3
3C
2
3
0
0
3
0
Vitamine E
2
3B
2
0
1
3C
2
1
3C
2
0
He Shou Wu
3C
3B
0
0
0
2
0
1
0
0
0
Benfotiamine #
2
0
3
0
3B
3B
3
1
0
0
0
Vitamin D/D3 (5) #
2
3A
2
3B
0
3B
0
1
3C
0
0
Caffeine (5)
0
2
3
0
0
3C
0
3
0
0
0
Cinnamon
0
3B
0
0
2
3B
0
3
0
2
0
Grape Seed Extract #
0
3B
0
0
3B
3B
3B
2
0
0
3B
Creatine
3C
0
3A
0
0
0
0
2
0
0
0
B-complex B6/B9/B12
2
1
3A
3B
2
0
2
2
0
0
2
IP6
0
3A
3A
0
0
3B
3B
0
3A
0
0
Centrophenoxine #
0
0
0
3B
0
3B
3B
3A
0
0
0
Melatonin
3A
3A
3B
3A
0
3C
0
2
3
0
0
NAC #
0
2
3C
2
3A
0
0
0
0
0
2
L-Taurine !
3C
2
3A
0
3C
0
1
0
0
0
0
L-Histidine !
0
0
3C
0
3C
0
0
2
0
0
0
Fisetin (6)
0
3A
3
0
3
 3A
3A
3A
0
0
PQQ (6) #
0
3A
3A
0
0
 3A
2A
0
0
0
Fish Oil (6)
0
3A
3A
0
3B
0
3A
2B
3B
0
0
SAMe (6)
2
3A
3B 
0
0
3B
0
3B
 0
0
 0
Olive Leaf Extract (6) #
0
3A
0
0
3A
0
3A
2B
3A
0
0
Cats Claw
0
3B
3A
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
Pycnogenol
0
3B
0
3B
0
3A
0
2A
0
0
0
Epitalon
0
3A
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
3A
Lithium (5) %
3A
3B
3A
0
0
3A
3A
3A
0
0
3A
DHEA # +
Lion's Mane Mushroom +
3
Melatonin +
3
Choline Bitartrate +
3
Piracetam +
3
L-Tryptophan +
Zinc #
0
2
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
3

Legend

Powerfull Combinations:

(1) ALCAR, Alpha Lipoic Acid, Coenzyme Q10 - Reduces Lipofucin, Maintains Mitochondria Function, Protects Telomeres

(2) L-Carnosine, Blueberry Extract - Increase stem cell proliferation by 80%

(3) L-Carnosine, Benfotiamine and ALCAR synergistically to inhibit AGEs.

(4) Curcumin and Vitamin D3 remove beta-amyloids from the brain.

(5) Increased Autophagy per GV's "Autophagy – the housekeeper in every cell that fights aging."

(6) Reduced epigenetic signaling to cancel cancer as seen in GV's "Slaying Two Dragons with One Stone".

Notes:

+ Needs source citations

! If taking high dosages of L-Carnosine (over 1500 mg) - Taurine supplementation is recommended to prevent depletion in the kidneys. Taurine is also necessary for healthy enzime interactions at the cellular level. Histidine supplementation is recommended to prevent histimine depletion which is important to a healthy immune system. Higher levels of Histidine in the system can reduce inflammation. In addition to their anti-AGE action, Carnosine and Histidine protect against alcohol-induced liver damage and depression.

^ Unfortunately, the specific types of AGEs affected by alagebrium, also known as ALT-711, are more important in rats than humans. The promising results in animals were never replicated in human studies.

# Supplements on Vincent E. Giuliano's regimen list in the Anti-Aging Firewalls blog.

% Prolonged high dosages may cause cancer, however prolonged low dosages have proven to extend human lifespans.

 

0 = Not Useful

1 = Possibly Useful - Not Conclusive

2 = Somewhat Useful - Some proven benefit

3 = Definitively Useful - Has known benefits

A = Highly Effective

B = Somewhat Effective

C = Slightly Effective

 


Edited by solarfingers, 18 August 2013 - 01:18 AM.

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#2 solarfingers

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 04:09 PM

The basic idea behind this effort is to identify supplements which cross other targets and to reduce the number of choices based upon product usefulness. I want to avoid poverty by supplementation as much as possible.

Thanks...
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#3 solarfingers

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 07:05 PM

Rutin is a dietary flavinoid found in fruit. It is a powerful antioxidant which serves a number of useful functions. Studies have confirmed that rutin's powerful effects protects the structure of heart mitochondria preventing cardiac mitochondrial dysfunction. Further studies show that Rutin inhibits beta-amyloid aggregation and cytotoxicity and reduces the effects of oxidative stress. Further, Rutin serves as an advance glycation end products (AGE) inhibitor and contributes to the prevention of aging and diabetes. Rutin improves learning and memory and reduces age-related deficits in memory when used in higher doses (At least in mice).



Sources:

ScienceDirect.com - Free Radical Biology and Medicine - Rutin metabolites: Novel inhibitors of nonoxidative advanced glycation end products

RUTIN: Uses, Side Effects, Interactions and Warnings - WebMD

Rutin May Prevent Number One Killer of Americans

Rutin improves glucose homeostasis in ... [J Biochem Mol Toxicol. 2006] - PubMed - NCBI

What is Rutin And What's It Got To Do With Health?

Hammada scoparia flavonoids and rutin kill adherent... [Leuk Res. 2011] - PubMed - NCBI

Protective effects of rutin on mitochondr... [Cardiovasc Toxicol. 2010] - PubMed - NCBI

Rutin inhibits beta-amyloid aggregation and cyt... [Neurotoxicology. 2012] - PubMed - NCBI

131.pdf


Edited by solarfingers, 18 June 2013 - 07:16 PM.

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#4 solarfingers

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 07:09 PM

Unless somebody can come up with an argument against it, I am removing ALT-711 from the list...

Unfortunately, the specific types of AGEs affected by alagebrium, also known as ALT-711, are more important in rats than humans. The promising results in animals were never replicated in human studies.



#5 niner

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 08:01 PM

Unless somebody can come up with an argument against it, I am removing ALT-711 from the list...

Unfortunately, the specific types of AGEs affected by alagebrium, also known as ALT-711, are more important in rats than humans. The promising results in animals were never replicated in human studies.


Some of the other compounds in your spreadsheet might help to reduce the formation of AGEs, but ALT-711 is the only one that can break (at least one kind of) AGE. Most of them have pretty bad pharmacokinetics and/or haven't been shown to significantly reduce AGE formation in healthy humans. Some of them don't have any effect that I know of on AGEs, but may reduce blood glucose. That's getting pretty far afield of glycoSENS... if such compounds are included, then a low carb diet should maybe be included too.

I'd be inclined to leave ALT-711 in, because nothing here actually supersedes it. Although it didn't turn out to be such a great blood pressure med that big pharma was interested in it, I think that there have been some pretty nice demonstrations in humans, at least in the case of diabetic nephropathy. Thus, it does something good. I think that it just isn't getting as much research as it needs, as far as demonstrating effects in healthy people. OTOH, it's pretty clear that it isn't the "Fountain of Youth in a Bottle" that people once hoped it might be. I think that it might be a net win, but it doesn't look like we are going to see any proof of that in healthy people any time soon.
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#6 solarfingers

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 08:34 PM

Niner, you provide great input as usual. I know we have discussed L-Carnosine before. Does it not have both AGE removal and preventative properties? As far as bio-availability what do think of mega-dosing L-Carnosine and supplementing L-Taurine and L-Histidine to account for their loss? I can see no harm in this from my research.

I am looking for products that provide more bang for the buck and ALT-711 seems like the kind of thing you would not do on a monthly basis due to cost. I believe it might be a good kick start product for reversing as much damage as possible and then following up with a program of prevention. By prevention I mean supplementation, diet and exercise. The best thing one can do to reduce AGEs is to avoid foods that cause them in the first place.

I can't argue the effectiveness of AGE inhibitors on my list but there seemed to be evidence to support them. I am going through each supplement again with a fine tooth comb to verify the list as much as possible. It took a week to compile it and it needs revision and more verification. Could you be more specific as to which on the list have poor pharmacokinetics? This is a subject for which I am at the least acquainted.

Thanks...

#7 solarfingers

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 10:04 PM

Rutin has a poor bio-availability rating and requires high doses to be effective.

http://jn.nutrition....36/11/2862.long

#8 solarfingers

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 02:10 PM

Aspirin's possible cancer-protective effects may be due to the prevention of inflammation which could provide a boost to the growth of cancer cells. Some studies suggest that aspirin targets cancer stem cells which is at the root to cancer growth and metastasis. Though the science is relatively new, researches suspect that aspirin is most effective against the type of cancer responsible for breast, prostate, esophageal and colorectal tumors.

Aspirin has also been tested in the lab to show that it has an effect on the onset of replication senescence. Senescence is the stage before cell death (apoptosis) where cells can no longer replicate themselves by division. This tells us that aspirin can delay the onset of senescence by decreasing reactive oxygen species (ROS) and increasing nitric oxide (NO) along with cGMP levels. Shortening of telomeres and decrease of telomerase is another mechanism that induces senescence. Aspirin increased telomerase activity significantly.

It is also purported that chronic use of Aspirin as a non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drug can inhibit amyloid-betta aggregation which can prevent and treat Alzheimer's disease, arthritis, cardiovascular disease and cancer (age related diseases).

Buffered aspirin has relatively good bio-availability as compared to other forms.

Sources:

New Evidence That Aspirin May Prevent Cancer - Forbes
Aspirin reduces endothelial cell ... [Biochem Biophys Res Commun. 2005] - PubMed - NCBI
Aspirin and non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drug... [Neuroreport. 2001] - PubMed - NCBI
Aspirin: effects, poisoning | The Children's Hospital of Philadelphia
Aspirin Reduces Endothelial Cell Senescence
Comparative bioavailability of aspirin from buffered, enteric-coated and plain preparations.

Edited by solarfingers, 19 June 2013 - 02:16 PM.


#9 ta5

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 06:02 PM

Aspirin

It may also inhibit glycation.

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#10 solarfingers

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 06:09 PM

Aspirin

It may also inhibit glycation.


I got that sense from somewhere so that must be why I gave it a 1 but had no citation for it. Are you aware of one?

Thanks...

#11 ta5

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 06:15 PM

Aspirin

It may also inhibit glycation.


I got that sense from somewhere so that must be why I gave it a 1 but had no citation for it. Are you aware of one?


Oh yeah, you did give it a one, I missed that.

There are some references here:
http://health.groups...fe/message/1177

I think this full study mentions it:
http://pmid.us/14568010

You actually linked to the full study before:
http://www.longecity..._30#entry590779

There are more threads on longecity.

Edited by ta5, 20 June 2013 - 06:21 PM.


#12 solarfingers

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 07:47 PM

There are some references here:
http://health.groups...fe/message/1177

I think this full study mentions it:
http://pmid.us/14568010

You actually linked to the full study before:
http://www.longecity..._30#entry590779

There are more threads on longecity.


I found a pdf of the study which does mention aspirin (acetylsalicylic acid) as a possible inhibitor of glycation:

Anti-inflammatory compounds such as acetylsalicylic acid, ibuprofen, and indomethacin were reported to be inhibitors of glycation [113–115], perhaps by preventing the oxidative stress associated with the formation of AGE.


Also this reference:

Aspirin may also inhibit the formation of pathological A.G.E. crosslinks. For example, chronic users of aspirin have fewer cataracts [Bucala].
Crosslink Breakers

Nevertheless, aminoguanidine and aspirin do not seem to break A.G.E. crosslinks which have already formed.



So, it would seem that Aspirin is indeed a viable preventative candidate against glycation but not AGE breaking.

Thanks, I will reflect it in the spreadsheet!

#13 solarfingers

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 03:00 AM

ALT-711, trade name Alagebrium, is the only true advanced glycation end-products (AGEs) breaker. AGEs is notably one of the greatest known cause of aging. Primarily AGEs deals with the end products of our cells when they burn off sugars in our body. These byproducts are secreted out of the body's cells and binds with proteins to cause extracellular junk which builds up between cells. This is the cause of our degrading physical condition as we grow old. Our skin looses its elasticity, we begin to loose our sight, hearing and our arteries and heart begin to harden. Further damage is caused by a release of compounds triggered by AGE receptors called RAGEs. This inflammation causes the creation of hardened fibrous tissues which can further damage the circulatory system, heart and brain. There are other products which can slow or inhibit AGEs. Except for the exception of Aminoguanidine, we will discuss these AGE inhibitors later.

ALT-711 is specifically known to reverse AGEs in the heart and circulatory system. Overall it is known to reduce the body's AGEs which and is later excreted through urine. High blood pressure patient treated with 210mg twice daily for eight weeks incurred an increase blood flow of nearly 80% and had their arterial stiffness reduced by 37%. Elderly patients with diastolic heart failure were also treated with ALT-711had the left ventricle of their hearts decrease in mass and subsequently their quality of life increased by 25%. ALT-711 not only breaks AGEs but it also significantly reduces RAGEs.

Another product called Aminoguanida is a known AGEs inhibitor. The company who designed ALT-711 when conducting trials say that Aminoguanida when used with ALT-711 further helps reduce proteins that result in kidney disease, delays renal disease and improves cholesterol profiles. Aminoguanida is able to reduce the damage caused by diabetes.

The company who owns the patent to ALT-711 has not been able to get their product approved by the FDA and their ability to do so is seriously in doubt. Consequently a grey market has sprung up and unlicensed ALT-711 products are available on the internet. It is highly expensive but for the benefit it might be worth adding for a month once a year.

Sources:

Alagebrium chloride protects t... [J Gerontol A Biol Sci Med Sci. 2009] - PubMed - NCBI
Anti-Aging Medicine: Current Therapies from the Science of Life-Extension
ALT-711: Safe and Effective Anti-AGE-ing Therapy : Vanuatu Medical, Ltd.
Crosslink breakers: a new approach to card... [Curr Opin Cardiol. 2004] - PubMed - NCBI
The End of ALT-711 / Alagebrium
11TOLSJ.pdf (application/pdf Object)

Edited by solarfingers, 21 June 2013 - 03:05 AM.


#14 solarfingers

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 03:42 AM

I have recently read the blog posting, "PART 1: Slaying Two Dragons with One Stone – How to Prevent Cancer and Aging with the Same Strategy" by By James Watson and Vince Giuliano. In this treaty the authors discuss the similarties in the "epignentics" and biological processes of cancer and aging. They concluded that those things which could prevent aging must also have to prevent cancer. In order to focus on this process they explain Xenohormosis which is the stress response phytochemicals which has evolved to protect both plants and animals from cancer. What they unveil is a first level molecular explanation for the causes of cancer and aging in terms of epigenetic silencing of good genes and activation of bad genes. Unwanted epigenetic signaling can be reduced by a selective diet of phytochemicals found in plant foods.

The graph below identifies the epigenetic causes and the most accessible supplements for reversing them. Many of these cross several causes and I have reduced them to eight supplements that I believe belong on my SENS list: EGCG (Green Tea), Curcumin, Resveratrol, SAMe, EVOO (secoiridoids), PQQ, Fish Oil and Fisetin.

EGCG (Green Tea Extract), Curcumin, and Resveratrol are already on our list so I will be adding SAMe, Olive Leaf Extract, PQQ, Fish Oil and Fisetin on the list. I am also adding Aminoguanida and B6 yet will explain this later. Understand that I am not suggesting I take all of these supplements but I am trying to take a scientific approach to narrowing down those that will do the greatest good in approaching the goals of the seven SENS targets. Click on the image for an expanded view.

Posted Image

Edited by solarfingers, 21 June 2013 - 03:48 AM.

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#15 NDM

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 03:04 PM

I thought that Aubrey de Grey said in interviews that supplements don't work, so I find it interesting that you go against his opinion...even as your quest for supplements is based on a framework of plausible mechanisms that he designed.
By the way, I am not very clear as to why you rank supps both along 1, 2, 3, and along A, B, C...what's more effective a 3C or a 1A? etc.
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#16 solarfingers

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 03:51 PM

I now have editing privileges and will continue to keep the spreadsheet in this thread updated and I will post changes to one spreadsheet on my blog site as well... So you also can follow my changes here.

Edited by solarfingers, 02 July 2013 - 11:10 PM.


#17 solarfingers

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 04:41 PM

I thought that Aubrey de Grey said in interviews that supplements don't work, so I find it interesting that you go against his opinion...even as your quest for supplements is based on a framework of plausible mechanisms that he designed.
By the way, I am not very clear as to why you rank supps both along 1, 2, 3, and along A, B, C...what's more effective a 3C or a 1A? etc.


Supplements won't reverse these problems but only act as inhibitors or prevention (with the exception of ALT-711). In a sense Dr. Gray is only dealing with the bigger picture. For example lypofusion is a problem that can be dealt with using supplementation. Some targets have effects that can be dealt with by supplementation. These effects are just as dangerous as their causes. Look at it this way. If a fence breaks, you can either replace the fence or repair it. Since we cannot target to replace the fence we choose to repair it. Wouldn't it make since to try to prevent it from being broken in the first place? There is no guarantee that our preventative measures will work... but they may. Since Grey and other researchers have found no "cures" then our only current hope is prevention. I use these targets because they are definitive and prevent me from using a shotgun approach. The shotgun approach is like aiming without worrying about a target. You just hope you hit something. By focusing on the seven targets I am taking a more informed approach to preventing the effects of onset aging. With this in mind the targets mean the following to me:

RepleniSENS - Stem cell proliferation and healthy differentiation
OncoSENS - Prevention of cancer; Encouraging Cancer cell apoptosis
MitoSENS - Encouraging healthy mitochondria functioning
ApoptoSENS - Extending cell division and senescence
GlycoSENS - AGEs prevention
AmyloSENS - Extracellular aggregate prevention and removal
LysoSENS - Intracellular aggregate prevention and removal by healthy lysosomal activity

The ranking 1-3 rates the reliability of the information sources.

The ranking A-C rates the effectiveness in inhibition or prevention and reversal if possible.

These rankings were compiled pretty much on the fly as I examined these supplements and need finer revision and clarification. I'm working on it.

Edited by solarfingers, 21 June 2013 - 05:21 PM.

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#18 Logic

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 08:22 PM

Hats off to you Solarfingers for diving into this forum, finding so much pertinent information and summarising it so nicely in these spreadsheets.

Some questions:
What did you use to create these spreadsheets and how does one go about posting them here?

On your forum you have aspirin as a definitively useful, highly effective telomerase activator.
What!? That's the first I've heard of it?!

Why not list the less easily obtainable, more obscure supps like Fo-Ti as well? Perhaps in a different colour or something?
If they are really worthwhile you can be sure that the members of this forum will find a way to get hold of them with a group buy.

There is no truer saying than "the devil is in the dosage".
Supps have way different effects at different dosages. Yet for some strange reason this fact is almost always studiously ignored by just about every site and everyone, or its given in Try-figure-this-outs per dinosaur fart!?
I think dosage in eg. mg/kg and dosage schedule (half life) should be part of your excellent spreadsheet/s?


-----------

One thing you may have missed that you may be interested in is Epitalon:
http://www.longecity...ragalus-thread/

Another thing to be aware of is that most telomerase suppressors are supressors in cancer cells.
They normally have a quite different effect in healty cells and are quite often telomerase activators in healthy cells.
Vince of Anti-aging-firewalls has a very good blog post on this somewhere.

Edited by Logic, 21 June 2013 - 08:30 PM.


#19 niner

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 08:38 PM

I have to wonder about the magnitudes of the various effects here. For example, if aspirin is ranked 3A, meaning highest confidence and highest effectiveness, for telomere (telomerase?) activation, then why is anyone bothering to use TA65 or epitalon, when they could get a bottle of aspirin at the drug store for 1/100 of the cost?
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#20 solarfingers

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 10:01 PM

I have to wonder about the magnitudes of the various effects here. For example, if aspirin is ranked 3A, meaning highest confidence and highest effectiveness, for telomere (telomerase?) activation, then why is anyone bothering to use TA65 or epitalon, when they could get a bottle of aspirin at the drug store for 1/100 of the cost?


Honestly, it isn't that much of a refined rating system. For example, the reference says, "Aspirin increased telomerase activity significantly, compared to control, while ibuprofen and acetaminophen significantly reduced telomerase activity." We all know that Astragalus is more effective yet I was not trying to rate them against each other. I am merely trying to identify those things that are purported to work. Perhaps the rating system could use an overhaul. I am up for any suggestions. As far as telomere growth is concerned it would be prudent to find a comparative rating from one of the researchers to rate effectiveness between different supplements. Perhaps I should add ibuprofen and acetaminophen to the inhibitor column. It just happens that I already take 81mg of aspirin a day so I was curious and added it to the chart. If anything this tells us what pain reliever we should use while cycling our telomeres... ;)

Thanks...

#21 solarfingers

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 10:19 PM

Hats off to you Solarfingers for diving into this forum, finding so much pertinent information and summarising it so nicely in these spreadsheets.


One is happy to serve... :-D

Some questions:
What did you use to create these spreadsheets and how does one go about posting them here?


I have spreadsheets in both Dreamweaver which is in HTML and I also use MS Excel. I can export Excel to html and open it in Dreamweaver if necessary. To the right of the WYWIWYG editor is a checkbox "Enable HTML?" Checking on this turns the editor into a code editor where I can copy from Dreamweaver and paste into the forum. The only downside is that I can not edit it to reflect changes. I would have to re-post it. The image of the spreadsheet with VG's data was a screen snapshot of my Excel spreadsheet and I cropped it in an open source raster editing application called GIMP.

On your forum you have aspirin as a definitively useful, highly effective telomerase activator.
What!? That's the first I've heard of it?!


Read the explanation I wrote Niner. I'm just reporting what is referenced but the rating isn't meant to be comparative to others. This could use some refining. It might be useful to create a poll and allow the community to rate effectiveness. That sounds like a reasonable methodology.

Why not list the less easily obtainable, more obscure supps like Fo-Ti as well? Perhaps in a different colour or something?
If they are really worthwhile you can be sure that the members of this forum will find a way to get hold of them with a group buy.


Fo-Ti is on the list as "He Shou Wu." I'm certainly up for suggestions as to adding other supplements to the list and I solicited this input at the beginning of the forum post. I truly would like this to be more of a community effort if nothing more than expediting the process though I don't mind doing all the work myself. I'll get to the bottom if it sooner or later.

There is no truer saying than "the devil is in the dosage".
Supps have way different effects at different dosages. Yet for some strange reason this fact is almost always studiously ignored by just about every site and everyone, or its given in Try-figure-this-outs per dinosaur fart!?
I think dosage in eg. mg/kg and dosage schedule (half life) should be part of your excellent spreadsheet/s?


I added a field for dosage, frequency and cost/dosage but there just isn't enough room in the forum or my site format to allow for that many fields. I will likely create a new spreadsheet to reflect these pertinent facts once the list is near completion.

One thing you may have missed that you may be interested in is Epitalon:
http://www.longecity...ragalus-thread/

Another thing to be aware of is that most telomerase suppressors are supressors in cancer cells.
They normally have a quite different effect in healty cells and are quite often telomerase activators in healthy cells.
Vince of Anti-aging-firewalls has a very good blog post on this somewhere.


I have heard of it. Good call, I'll add it to the list. I could use help with citations however. I have a big backlog of supplements that I need to work through.

Thank you Logic for the thoughtful and suggestive criticism! :-D

Edited by solarfingers, 21 June 2013 - 10:41 PM.


#22 solarfingers

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 03:05 PM

Astragalus

Astragalus is a herb which has a long history in Chinese medicine. Several species in the United States contain a neurotoxin called swainsonine which farmers have coined as "locoweed" since it is know to poison their animals. So, it is important to obtain Astragalus from reliable sources. It is considered a safe supplement for adults with exception for people who are using drugs that suppress the immune system. It is also known to affect blood pressure and sugar levels.

Astragalus is traditionally used in support of colds, respiratory infections, cancer treatment, chronic hepatitis and heart disease. It is known to enhance the body's immune system, heart and liver functions. It contains an antiviral compound called cycloastragenol which is responsible for boosting the supply of telomerase in the body. This boost of telomerase is noted for it's ability to reduce the aging process in the cells of the body by replacing telomeres which are lost in cell replication. The loss of telomeres in cells is a major contributor to the condition of aging.

There has been debate concerning the boosting in telomerase and it's abilitly to replenish the telomers on the end of chromosomes. The major concern is the effect it has on cancer cells and the suspicion that it could encourage their proliferation. This is highly unlikely since the nature of cancer is to short circuit the telomerase supply by making its own and thus allowing cancer to grow uncontrolled. Otherwise, research has shown that an increase of telomerase has the effect of protecting against cancer because of its ability to protect and stabilize chromosomes.

In practice some have chosen to cycle Astragalus and or it's derivatives with telomerase inhibitors to suppress any chance of encouraging cancer cell proliferation. This practice is truly arbitrary since no studies have been conducted that can verify its successful.

There are a number of companies that have isolated cycloastragenol and sell it for the expressed purpose of increasing the supply of telomerase. Cycloastragenol is converted to another compound called Astragaloside IV which is responsible for the telomerase production effort. The need to isolate this compound was merely a business model by which the Geron Corporation could patent and encapulate a sellable product. Astragaloside IV is crazy expensive. I found the following in the Longecity forums and thought it was interesting enough to post here.

9 grams of Astragalus = 14.4mg of Astragaloside IV
15 grams of Astragalus = 24mg of Astragaloside IV
30 grams of Astragalus = 48mg of Astragaloside IV
60 grams of Astragalus = 96mg of Astragaloside IV
120 grams of Astragalus = 192mg of Astragaloside IV

Astragaloside IV comes in 50mg capsules and the daily recommended dosage is 1 to 2 per day. I am currently on 45 grams of astragalus a day which would be a little over 1 dosage of Astragloside IV. I may bump this up to 60 grams a day in the future. It is prudent to be cautious and to take things slowly.

How do I prepare Astragalus for ingestion? I simply heat my water in the microwave till it's good and hot. I then spoon three tsps of Astragalus powder into the cup and stir. Twice a day, I also like to spoon three 1/4 tsp scoops of ground cinnamon into this mixture for it's obvious benefits. It also makes it taste great! I let it steep for about 10 minutes. I pour a little milk into it to add body and I drink the whole cup, stirring it between sips to keep the powder suspended in the water. I do this three times a day to get to my 30 grams. The milk helps to neutralize any of the polyphenols that the concoction might come in contact with. The polyphenols found in grains, seeds, vegetables and fruit work against telomerase activation.

Sources:


4 Positive Effects of Astragalus Extract on Immune System
Astragalus for Cancer Prevention - NaturalNews.tv
Mitochondrial Protection and Anti-aging Activi... [Int J Mol Sci. 2012] - PubMed - NCBI
Supplements For A Healthy Kidney | LIVESTRONG.COM
Astragalus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
ASTRAGALUS: Uses, Side Effects, Interactions and Warnings - WebMD


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#23 Logic

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 03:08 PM

spreadsheets:
Thx. :)
Its a pity you cant update it here without re-posting.

Aspirin:
That's a very interesting finding!
There are a number of threads where this could be posted for some feedback.


Citations:
http://www.ncbi.nlm..../?term=epitalon

Are there specific properties you are looking for in the citations?


The is a thread somewhere about creating an interactive spreadsheet/database on supps that you may be interested in too.
I cant find the damn thing though!?







#24 solarfingers

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 03:34 PM

spreadsheets:
Thx. :)
Its a pity you cant update it here without re-posting.

Aspirin:
That's a very interesting finding!
There are a number of threads where this could be posted for some feedback.


Citations:
http://www.ncbi.nlm..../?term=epitalon

Are there specific properties you are looking for in the citations?


The is a thread somewhere about creating an interactive spreadsheet/database on supps that you may be interested in too.
I cant find the damn thing though!?


Thanks for the support Logic... I'll have to drill down and find that spreadsheet thread.

As far as citations go I think the more authoritative the better. Even though they are interesting to read you have to have one eye shut when you read a vendor's write-up on supplements. I do love anything from www.ncbi.nlm. I also tend to steer away from information in forums or threads that have no citations to support their claims. Then again if the poster is a known quantity and is considered authoritative by others then that might be an exception.

I spent the evening reading about Epitalon and am fascinated. I'm going to give this one some serious consideration for my own regimen.

#25 NDM

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 03:43 PM

There was some discussion at Longecity about males dying younger because of too much accumulation of iron deposits compared to women...and blood donations & EGCG consumption were suggested remedies. I'm not sure if this fits anywhere in your framework and/or whether it is too speculative (OTOH, Ian Deary of Edinburgh's psychology dept. had a journal article about the involvement of iron deposits in mental decline).

#26 solarfingers

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 04:02 PM

There was some discussion at Longecity about males dying younger because of too much accumulation of iron deposits compared to women...and blood donations & EGCG consumption were suggested remedies. I'm not sure if this fits anywhere in your framework and/or whether it is too speculative (OTOH, Ian Deary of Edinburgh's psychology dept. had a journal article about the involvement of iron deposits in mental decline).


Thank you... Yes EGCG is a known catechin and I do believe I read that information when doing my research. There seems to be allot of information supporting this claim. I believe I gave EGCG a 3B mostly because catechin's are a smaller part of the picture in AGEs. I could be wrong. I'm still learning.

#27 Logic

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 04:22 PM

Thanks for the support Logic... I'll have to drill down and find that spreadsheet thread.

As far as citations go I think the more authoritative the better. Even though they are interesting to read you have to have one eye shut when you read a vendor's write-up on supplements. I do love anything from www.ncbi.nlm. I also tend to steer away from information in forums or threads that have no citations to support their claims. Then again if the poster is a known quantity and is considered authoritative by others then that might be an exception.

I spent the evening reading about Epitalon and am fascinated. I'm going to give this one some serious consideration for my own regimen.


Pleasure. :)

Here is the... official Epitalon site:
http://eng.gerontology.ru/
You will find studies and interesting info on Epitalon and other interesting peptides here.

I took Epitalon and C60oo at the same time and can say that I have not looked or felt better in 15 years.
you may still be able to get in on the group buy happening in the Epitalon thread. Contact Dreamer asap if you're interested.


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#28 solarfingers

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 05:18 PM

Thanks for the support Logic... I'll have to drill down and find that spreadsheet thread.

As far as citations go I think the more authoritative the better. Even though they are interesting to read you have to have one eye shut when you read a vendor's write-up on supplements. I do love anything from www.ncbi.nlm. I also tend to steer away from information in forums or threads that have no citations to support their claims. Then again if the poster is a known quantity and is considered authoritative by others then that might be an exception.

I spent the evening reading about Epitalon and am fascinated. I'm going to give this one some serious consideration for my own regimen.


Pleasure. :)

Here is the... official Epitalon site:
http://eng.gerontology.ru/
You will find studies and interesting info on Epitalon and other interesting peptides here.

I took Epitalon and C60oo at the same time and can say that I have not looked or felt better in 15 years.
you may still be able to get in on the group buy happening in the Epitalon thread. Contact Dreamer asap if you're interested.


It looks like I missed the buyin yet at $230 I would be a little bit pressed to participate.

Thanks!

#29 solarfingers

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 03:21 PM

What should I say about c60-oo? There isn't much data except for that provided in the Baati rat study so I'll just post my write-up about it and add some extra notes.

The Baati Rat Study

The world was abuzz when the news came out. Scientists in the lab were able to double the lifespan of mice using a substance known as c60 fullerenes. The implications of this study has yet to be realized in human beings. The study is often referred to as the Baati Rat Study because Dr. Baati's name is the first on the study. There are a number of people involved in this study who are notably Tarek Baati , Fanchon Bourasset , Najla Gharbi , Leila Njim , Manef Abderrabba, Abdelhamid Kerkeni , Henri Szwarc and Fathi Moussa. Dr. Fathi Moussa is the contact on the paper and the individual who has seen the most public recognition.

What is a fullerene? Wikipedia describes fullerenes: "A fullerene is any molecule composed entirely of carbon, in the form of a hollow sphere, ellipsoid or tube. Spherical fullerenes are also called buckyballs, and they resemble the balls used in football (soccer). " There are a number of fullerenes depending on the number of atoms present. C60 is a particular form of fullerene consisting of 60 carbon atoms. Each of these atoms potentially have a weak attraction to other atoms and show potential for anti-oxidation by attracting free radicals within the body. Free radicals are dangerous because they are broken chemical links who's unmatched electrons can attach themselves to cells and rob them of energy causing detriment to the cells.

Here is the abstract and conclusion these men found in their test as stated in the paper. I have read the Baati rat study and created my own synopsis (human readable explanation) of the study providing my own assumptions.


The prolongation of the lifespan of rats by repeated oral administration of [60] fullerene

A b s t r a c t

Countless studies showed that [60]fullerene (C60) and derivatives could have many potential biomedical applications. However, while several independent research groups showed that C60 has no acute or subacute toxicity in various experimental models, more than 25 years after its discovery the in vivo fate and the chronic effects of this fullerene remain unknown. If the potential of C60 and derivatives in the biomedical field have to be fulfilled these issues must be addressed. Here we show that oral administration of C60 dissolved in olive oil (0.8 mg/ml) at reiterated doses (1.7 mg/kg of body weight) to rats not only does not entail chronic toxicity but it almost doubles their lifespan. The effects of C60-olive oil solutions in an experimental model of CCl4 intoxication in rat strongly suggest that the effect on lifespan is mainly due to the attenuation of age-associated increases in oxidative stress. Pharmacokinetic studies show that dissolved C60 is absorbed by the gastro-intestinal tract and eliminated in a few tens of hours. These results of importance in the fields of medicine and toxicology should open the way for the many possible -and waited for- biomedical applications of C60 including cancer therapy, neurodegenerative disorders, and ageing.

Conclusion

The effect of pristine C60 on lifespan emphasizes the absence of chronic toxicity. These results obtained with a small sample of animals with an exploratory protocol ask for a more extensive studies to optimize the intestinal absorption of C60 as well as the different parameters of the administration protocol: dose, posology, and treatment duration. In the present case, the treatment was stopped when a control rat died at M17, which proves that the effects of the C60 treatment are long-lasting as the estimated median lifespan for C60-treated rats is 42 months. It can be thought that a longer treatment could have generated even longer lifespans. Anyway, this work should open the road towards the development of the considerable potential of C60 in the biomedical field, including cancer therapy, neurodegenerative disorders and ageing. Furthermore, in the field of ageing, as C60 can be administered orally and as it is now produced in tons, it is no longer necessary to resort to its water-soluble derivatives, which are difficult to purify and in contrast to pristine C60 may be toxic.

© 2012 Elsevier Ltd. All rights reserved.

Synopsis

The remarkable conclusion of this test is that olive oil mixed with c60 fullerenes (c60-oo) can double the life expectancy of rats. In the test three groups of six rats were administered water, olive oil and c60-oo respectively. These rats were kept only for observation. Another group of 60 rats was selected for further testing and divided into 10 groups of six rats. These 10 groups were then separated into five different groups: A, B, C, D and E.

One half of group A (3 rats) were injected with 1ml of water. The second half of group A (3 rats) were given 1ml water orally.

One half of group B (3 rats) was injected with 1ml of olive oil and the second half of group B (3 rats) was given 1ml of olive oil orally.

One half of group C (3 rats) was injected with 1ml of olive oil and the second half of group C (3 rats) was given 1ml of olive oil orally.

One half of group D (3 rats) was injected with 1ml of olive oil with c60 fullerenes and the second half of group D (3 rats) was given 1ml of olive oil with c60 fullerenes orally.

One half of group E (3 rats) was injected with 1ml of olive oil with c60 fullerenes and the second half of group E (3 rats) was given 1ml of olive oil with c60 fullerenes orally.

24 hours before being sacrificed for dissection Groups A, C & E were injected with the toxin CCI4. Groups B and D were injected with NaCl as a control group. All the rats were sacrificed within 48 hours.

The results concluded that the rats given olive oil and c60-oo recovered from CC14 toxicity within five hours. The rats given water were ill till they were sacrificed. Tests for C60 were conducted on the blood, urine, liver, spleen, lungs and brain. When dissected the rats showed c60 in the spleen, brain and in the liver. There was no evidence of the c60 in the lungs. Presence of c60 in the brain demonstrates its ability to traverse the blood brain barrier. The time it takes the c60 to reach one half of the amount of the peak concentration in the blood shows that c60 is completely eliminated after 97 hours from the blood stream. The lack of c60 in the organs after 7 daily administrations of c60-oo shows that all of the c60 clears the organs a few hours after oral consumption. The presence of c60 had little effect if any in the spleen and the liver. In fact it was proven that the presence of c60 was a powerful agent in protecting the liver. The c60-oo is digested, later excreted through the bile duct and is eliminated through the feces. This would indicate to me the c60 that is eliminated is still clinging to a lipid form (olive oil) since that is how lipids are excreted from the body. No c60-oo is excreted through the urinary tract. Basically c60-oo was demonstrated to be extremely non-toxic and demonstrated super anti-oxidant effects.

Concerning the original three groups of six rats, the rats were orally given 1ml of water, olive oil or c60-oo. They were administered daily for the first week. Thereafter, till the end of the second month they were given a weekly dosage. After the second month they were given bi-weekly administration until the 15th month. At this time one of the rats began to show stress due to sensitivity to the oral administration and all dosages were subsequently stopped. By the end of the 38th month all of the water fed rats were dead. By the end of 58 months the olive oil fed rats were all dead. The c60-oo rats lived up to 66 months where the remaining rats were sacrificed for testing. The median lifestyle for this breed of rats (Wistar rats) is 24 to 36 months which is in keeping with the results of the test. In conclusion the rats given c60-oo lived twice as long and could potentially have lived longer if not sacrificed for the test. This is an exciting discovery since lab activities that have consequences for rats have subsequent consequences for human beings.

Predominant Theories of Activation

1) C60 passes through cell membranes where it:

A) Aides in repairing mitochondria, promotes bio-genesis (creation of new mitochondria), prevents or delays ROS (Cell destroying) activity, or perhaps resets the mitochondrial age.
B) Prevents oxidative stress and provides anti-oxidant action on the cellular level.
C) Renews DNA by demethylation when it binds itself to the DNA winding that is prone to degradation.
D) Deposits olive-oil in the cell where it normally could not permeate providing extra anti-oxidants and fuel.

2) It acts as a catalytic scavenger neutralizing free radicals in the body until they can do something usefull. At that point the c60 is released and is available for scavenging again.

Assumptions

Even though the cause of the double life extension of the Wistar rats is not completely understood I can conclude a number of things. Firstly, c60-oo is reasonably safe to experiment with. The purpose of the test was not to determine the effects of longevity of rats on c60-oo. The purpose of the test was to show the level of toxicity. The test proves c60 has no toxic affects on the body when suspended in olive oil and actually shows protective super-antioxidant properties. If it remains in the body it is likely doing something useful. Secondly, there are possible benefits of cell protection, repair or maintenance. If any one of these benefits, either alone or in tandem, are true then c60-oo can be an elixir providing a route to greater health and longevity. Couple this with c60's ability to scavenge free radicals from the body, c60's promises are too good to ignore. It should be noted that there has been no reproduction of this experiment. One is currently on the way but it will take four years to complete. This study has been published in a recognized peer journal. There has been a number of people who have taken c60-oo during the last year. Anecdotal evidence shows that it has positive benefits.

Below is a link to poll results on Longecity for individuals who have or are currently taking c60-oo. I have not taken this poll.



Longecity c60 poll


//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

There has been some hypothetical discussion concerning some adverse effects that may or may not be happening with c60-oo. One of our moderators, Niner, is a concerned that c60 may prevent pre-cancerous cells from sending themselves the signal to die (apoptosis). You can find a thread discussing this here: Hypothetical Concern About Daily Dosing. The way around this problem would be to use intermittent doses and allow the c60 to clear the system for enough time to allow these pre-cancerous cells to send the apoptosis signal. The user Logic however, is speculating that c60-oo would stimulate the cancer cell mitochondria and allow it to send this signal. If c60-oo is stimulating mitochondria (and usually this would be a good thing) the user Turnbuckle has suggested that stimulating the mitochondria of stem cells may cause them to differentiate uncontrollably out of existence. The mitochondria in stem cells serve a different purpose and when they divide they either differentiate into other types of body cells or they reproduce a copy of themselves in a process called proliferation. If differentiation only occurs and no proliferation is taking place it is hypothetically viable that they can exhaust themselves. This would be a bad thing because our body needs stem cells to replace lost cells. Then again the only answer is to use c60-oo intermittently to allow healthy stem cells the opportunity to proliferate. It is for these hypothetical reasons that I suggest either a bi-weekly or monthly dosage of c60-oo. There is no proof that daily dosages of c60-oo can lead to adverse results. My suggestion is just a form of insurance.

As compared to the Baati study, the Baati rats were given intermittent dosages and they were given c60-oo at a young age before any harmful cell mutations would have occurred.

As a disclaimer I should tell you, "DON'T DO THIS AT HOME!" There is no guarantee of a positive outcome if any. I am not encouraging anyone to experiment like myself. My decision to delve in these things is based upon my own research and comfort with the risk. I can not be held responsible for your actions should you attempt to follow my example. You are solely responsible if you attempt anything you see or read about on Longecity.com.

Edited by solarfingers, 23 June 2013 - 03:52 PM.

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#30 solarfingers

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 08:44 PM

I posted this find in another thread concerning AGE inhibitors and breakers but it should be here if not for the sake of being thorough.

Which Crosslinking Inhibitors and Breakers Are Right for You?


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Edited by solarfingers, 24 June 2013 - 09:01 PM.

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