3 replies to this topic

[TSX TypeR]

Hello there,

I'm working on developing a nootropic stack and I was just wondering why I haven't seen any discussion of using Acetyl-L-Carnitine Arginate as a Choline source with any of the Racetams. Consensus seems to state that Alpha-GPC is the best Choline source all around and I like its effects by itself (from Jarrow 300mg). But, I like the effects of Acetyl-L-Carnitine Arginate (also from Jarrow 500mg) even better separately. Just wondering if ALCAR Arginate would be a better source of Choline than Alpha-GPC when used with the more hardcore racetams for the purpose of not causing headaches or other negative side effects?

I've only tested Piracetam and Alpha GPC, Alpha GPC (separately), and Acetyl-L-Carnitine (separately).

I'm new at this so feel free to speak up if something seems off to anyone.

Edited by TSX TypeR, 15 July 2013 - 07:09 PM.

[SteinBo]

I never noticed too many profound effects regarding ALCAR. But I was primarily taking it for antioxidant purposes alongside citicholine. When it comes to taking any form of choline for the purposes of preventing the "Racetam headache" just about any will do. Over the time of taking piracetam and testing various other racetams alongside it, I have yet to increase my choline dosage or use a different variety of choline source.

From all that I have gathered and noticed in regards to utilizing choline it comes down to the specific individuals needs. What I am trying to say is that each of the choline sources has a variety of other aspects and benefits (such as CDP choline have some aspect of effects in regards to dopamine receptors.

I am however, still learning about it all, and have only tried a few racetams beside Piracetam (aniracetam, and phenylpiracetam)

[TSX TypeR]

From all that I have gathered and noticed in regards to utilizing choline it comes down to the specific individuals needs. What I am trying to say is that each of the choline sources has a variety of other aspects and benefits (such as CDP choline have some aspect of effects in regards to dopamine receptors.

I am however, still learning about it all, and have only tried a few racetams beside Piracetam (aniracetam, and phenylpiracetam)

Have you had the nootropic and athletic enhancements from the phenylpiracetam?

I just have stumbled on to this piece of information. I should have probably named this thread "finding the best Choline source".

Effects of idebenone on the levels of acetylcholine, choline, free fatty acids, and energy metabolites in the brains of rats with cerebral ischemia.

Abstract

Cerebral ischemia was induced by a 200-s occlusion of both common carotid arteries in rats in which both vertebral arteries had been permanently cauterized. In the ischemic rats, a significant decrease in acetylcholine (ACh) and a marked increase in choline were observed in the cerebral cortex, hippocampus, striatum, and diencephalon. A slight increase in choline was also observed in the cerebellum and brain stem. Pretreatment with idebenone (10 mg/kg, i.p.) inhibited the decrease in ACh and the increase in choline in the forebrain regions. In addition, the same dose of idebenone inhibited the increments of lactate and free fatty acid contents and tended to inhibit the decrement of the ATP content in the cerebral cortex of the cerebral ischemic rats. These results indicate that idebenone inhibits the alteration of the ACh level and the disruption of membrane phospholipids in the brain of ischemic rats; these effects may be mediated by improved cerebral energy metabolism.

I'm not a scientist or anything but, does this possibly mean that Idebenone could also be good for increasing Choline levels?

[TSX TypeR]

Do we not have experts on this subject here?