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Reversing arterial plaque

artery cardiovascular disease lipids matrix gla protein vitamin k2 mk4 vitamin k2 mk7 xanthohumol plaque

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#1 mikey

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 04:17 PM


At the age of 46 I had a calcium CAT scan from neck to hips. The Dr said that I had two tiny specs of plaque in my circumflex artery. He said it was the least amount of plaque that he'd seen in someone my age.

At 60 years of age now, a coronary artery scan showed more plaque than I would have thought. A carotid scan also showed some plaque, but relatively less.

I immediately created a goal of reversing the plaque, to become plaque-free.

I started taking C60oo in early August, 2012, and it has reduced the depth of the wrinkles on my face, as seen in the photos on my profile.

I also noticed fading of two deep scars after Turnbuckle noted that he saw scars fading, likely due to C60oo's potent antioxidant effect improving the health of skin's elastin and collagen.

I assume that the external anti-aging improvements that I've experienced are accompanied by internal improvements.

However, while C60oo appears to reduce the potential for Alzheimer's, cancers, liver inflammation and other potential problems that would limit lifespan, it does not appear to affect cardiovascular issues - blood lipids, etc...

So, with finding out that I have some plaque, I began researching the potential to reverse arterial plaque and improve overall cardiovascular function with a goal of living far past 100 years of age in good health.

I then found a study that showed that high-dose vitamin K2 (MK4) reversed arterial plaque in rats ~37% in just six weeks.
Please see: http://bloodjournal....109/7/2823.long

So, I began taking 5 mg three times a day. I'm raising it to 15 mg, tid, because it is not toxic and I've seen multiple recommendations for 45 mg/day.

I'm also taking vitamin K2 (MK7) 400 mcg/day. It's half life is three days, so I only need to take it once a day.

K1 has beneficial effects for bone, but not plaque, but I am taking 200 mcg/day of it, also.

Turnbuckle enlightened me about xanthohumol's beneficial effects on arterial plaque and HDL, so I'm adding that to my supplement regimen.
Please see: http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3500296/

I invite you to join in on this pursuit of a healthy, plaque-free cardiovascular system and welcome any insights that you might have.
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#2 timar

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 05:17 PM

Where do you get the xanthohumol? (I get mine from German wheat beer, but I don't know if you can get a therapeutic dose from that without killing your liver :happy: )

Regarding your plaque, I would also keep an eye on my calcium intake. It shouldn't exeed the RDA.

Edited by timar, 19 September 2013 - 05:18 PM.


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#3 Dorian Grey

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 05:25 PM

IP6 (Inositol Hexaphosphate) to the rescue: http://ibdigital.uib...201.dir/201.pdf

"Phytate Inhibits Cardiovascular Calcifications"

---------------------------------------

You might also "Get Thee to a Blood Bank": http://www.healtheir...science-library


Iron status is associated with carotid atherosclerotic plaques in middle-aged adults


Body iron stores and presence of carotid atherosclerosis. Results from the Bruneck Study


Serum ferritin-a novel risk factor in acute myocardial infarction


Ferritin is independently associated with the presence of coronary artery calcium in 12,033 men

Edited by synesthesia, 19 September 2013 - 05:32 PM.

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#4 theconomist

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 05:51 PM

Could you list the specific supplement brands you're taking. I have been looking for a decent vitamin K formula for a while.

#5 balance

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 06:52 PM

I like your K1&K2 dosages, keep it up. But make sure to consume sufficient fat when you take them.

Another great supplement for your purpose is pomegranate extract. LEF sells a very strong one.

Make sure you take sufficient magnesium as D3, K2, Vit A, Magnesium all work in synergy to keep calcium where it needs to be.

#6 MrHappy

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 07:34 PM

Good thread!

Red palm oil and tocotrienols also appear to remove the plaque -

http://www.longecity...therosclerosis/
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#7 zen

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 10:52 PM

I don't have any personal experience with it but it looks interesting http://www.nanobiote...ut-nanobiotech/

#8 hav

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 10:14 PM

Hi, Mikey. Supplementing with K2 and magnesium is the right move, I think. I take the LEF Super K (200 mcg of mk7, 1 mg mk4, 1 mg k1) 1x daily myself with 600 mg of albion cheleated magnesium, mainly to assure no calcium soft tissue accumulation from the D3 I also take. But if you're already high in calcium accumulation, you might want to skip the D3 unless you test low. My wife has osteoperosis so she takes 3 mg LEF Boron and LEF Super K 1x daily, 600 mg magnesium 2x daily, plus 15 mg K2/Mk4 also 2x daily. She only added the mk4 because that was the form used in the only K2 osteoperosis study we found (15 mg 3x daily). However, adding that much mk4 in addition to the 400 mcg mk7 you are taking may very well be overkill, particularly if you are not also treating osteoperosis.

Howard

#9 david ellis

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 10:41 PM

Could you list the specific supplement brands you're taking. I have been looking for a decent vitamin K formula for a while.


Some of the Track Your Plaque crowd use:

1. Koncentrated K at www.K-vitamins.com with a 30.5mg Vit K pill (25mg MK4, 5mg K1 and .5mg MK7. I use this one. I haven't checked my calcium score yet( probably in Dec I will), but total cholesterol dropped from 237 to 200.

2. Osteo-K is found on Amazon and it carries a 3 pill serving that has 22.5mg of Vit MK2 (<MK7 and MK4). TheThis pill is designed to support two servings totaling 6 pills with a total of 45mg of Vitamin K. That is the dose used with success in Japan.

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#10 APBT

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 01:05 AM

VRP has a 15 mg k2 cap. Use this coupon code to receive 40% off the listed price through 23 September (V40CIT39)
http://www.vrp.com/ultra-k2-90-caps

#11 balance

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 02:18 AM

Could you list the specific supplement brands you're taking. I have been looking for a decent vitamin K formula for a while.


Some of the Track Your Plaque crowd use:


2. Osteo-K is found on Amazon and it carries a 3 pill serving that has 22.5mg of Vit MK2 (<MK7 and MK4). TheThis pill is designed to support two servings totaling 6 pills with a total of 45mg of Vitamin K. That is the dose used with success in Japan.



Osteo-K only contains MK-4 and also contains 1000iu D3 and 500mg Calcium per 3. That would be 1000mg of calcium per 6. I don't think it would be wise to take any calcium at all if you wanna make sure you're doing everything you can to reduce arterial calcification.

#12 mikey

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 02:58 AM

Where do you get the xanthohumol? (I get mine from German wheat beer, but I don't know if you can get a therapeutic dose from that without killing your liver :happy: )

Regarding your plaque, I would also keep an eye on my calcium intake. It shouldn't exeed the RDA.


I get xanthohumol from http://www.swansonvi...-mg-90-veg-caps

Calcium is in the multi I take but I don't even take half the RDA.

I take 8,500 IU of vitamin D a day, which increases calcium absorption as much as 65%, so I don't feel like I need much as far as calcium supplementation.

But the fear of calcium I believe to be somewhat misplaced.

One palatable theory is that vitamin K2 (MK4) deficiency causes problems with calcium forming plaque, rather than calcium itself being a problem.

If we don't have enough MK4 calcium can go into soft tissue, rather than where it's supposed to go, bones and teeth.

#13 mikey

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 03:07 AM

IP6 (Inositol Hexaphosphate) to the rescue: http://ibdigital.uib...201.dir/201.pdf

"Phytate Inhibits Cardiovascular Calcifications"

---------------------------------------

You might also "Get Thee to a Blood Bank": http://www.healtheir...science-library


Iron status is associated with carotid atherosclerotic plaques in middle-aged adults


Body iron stores and presence of carotid atherosclerosis. Results from the Bruneck Study


Serum ferritin-a novel risk factor in acute myocardial infarction


Ferritin is independently associated with the presence of coronary artery calcium in 12,033 men


IP6 is interesting. Thank you. However, there is a caveat:
Inositol hexaphosphate may reduce the body’s ability to absorb some minerals such as zinc, calcium, and iron. This concern has been raised mainly in regard to infants. IP6 can also reduce the amounts absorbed from mineral supplements.

As to ferritin, the multivitamin I take is iron-free and I do watch my ferritin measurement, which is not elevated or respectively high

But that is a good point, in general.
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#14 mikey

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 03:18 AM

Could you list the specific supplement brands you're taking. I have been looking for a decent vitamin K formula for a while.


I've been taking vitamin K2 (MK7) made by NOW, http://www.swansonvi...mcg-60-veg-caps

By far, the best buy in vitamin K2 (MK4) is from http://supplements.r...enone-p285.aspx -- and they know what they're doing. They only sell it in the optimal dose of 15 mg, which I take three times a day.

K1 is in my multi at 80 mcg, but I also have Biotics K1 Mulsion drops, which are 500 mcg/drop. http://www.vitacost....h-bio-k-mulsion

Since the K's have not been found to cause toxicity, I occasionally will take a drop or two. I'm not much worried about getting enough K1, as deficiency is rare. If you are deficient you will bleed easily.

I take them as separates because I find no company making a mix of all three in optimal ratios. Life Extension makes a mix, but it's shy on MK4.

#15 mikey

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 03:25 AM

I like your K1&K2 dosages, keep it up. But make sure to consume sufficient fat when you take them.

Another great supplement for your purpose is pomegranate extract. LEF sells a very strong one.

Make sure you take sufficient magnesium as D3, K2, Vit A, Magnesium all work in synergy to keep calcium where it needs to be.


I generally take a half teaspoon of either KerryGold grass-fed Irish butter or Green Pastures butter when I take the K's.

I get plenty of high quality magnesium (chloride and Doctor's Best), 8,500 IU of D/day, 5,000 IU of vitamin A palmitate, but most important, I believe is K2 (MK4).

Pomegranate is something I consume occasionally.

However, I will buy some of the LE product to take. Thank you.

#16 mikey

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 03:38 AM

Good thread!

Red palm oil and tocotrienols also appear to remove the plaque -

http://www.longecity...therosclerosis/


Interesting interview article on that page with Dr. Passwater, who I regard highly. I will read all 18 pages of it.
http://www.drpasswat...bierenbaum.html

I've been taking 5-6 capsules of Tocomin SuprBio tocotrienols a day for several years, so one would think from that article that I would have no plaque.

I'll read the article and consider how it fits in, though.

Thank you!

I don't have any personal experience with it but it looks interesting http://www.nanobiote...ut-nanobiotech/


Very interesting.

I'll study it and decide -- it's $199/month!

I'll also ask my functional medical doctor if he knows about it.

#17 mikey

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 03:44 AM

Hi, Mikey. Supplementing with K2 and magnesium is the right move, I think. I take the LEF Super K (200 mcg of mk7, 1 mg mk4, 1 mg k1) 1x daily myself with 600 mg of albion cheleated magnesium, mainly to assure no calcium soft tissue accumulation from the D3 I also take. But if you're already high in calcium accumulation, you might want to skip the D3 unless you test low. My wife has osteoperosis so she takes 3 mg LEF Boron and LEF Super K 1x daily, 600 mg magnesium 2x daily, plus 15 mg K2/Mk4 also 2x daily. She only added the mk4 because that was the form used in the only K2 osteoperosis study we found (15 mg 3x daily). However, adding that much mk4 in addition to the 400 mcg mk7 you are taking may very well be overkill, particularly if you are not also treating osteoperosis.

Howard


Good points, as usual, Howard.

I'm not concerned with bone - my bones tested like a 25-year old last time they were tested - except that I don't want bone in my arteries!

Thus, I'm taking these K2 (and other nutrient) doses to eliminate plaque in my arteries, hoping that the study that showed 37% plaque reversal in rats in six weeks with high dose K2 - MK4 will work for this human.

Edited by mikey, 21 September 2013 - 03:52 AM.


#18 mikey

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 03:49 AM

VRP has a 15 mg k2 cap. Use this coupon code to receive 40% off the listed price through 23 September (V40CIT39)
http://www.vrp.com/ultra-k2-90-caps


With that discount it's even a better deal than http://supplements.r...enone-p285.aspx - buy four and get them for $35.96.

#19 balance

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 05:03 AM

VRP has a 15 mg k2 cap. Use this coupon code to receive 40% off the listed price through 23 September (V40CIT39)
http://www.vrp.com/ultra-k2-90-caps


With that discount it's even a better deal than http://supplements.r...enone-p285.aspx - buy four and get them for $35.96.


I've been taking the Relentless brand K2 for many years until I found Koncentrated K which is cheaper and gives me more of what I want. I personally still alternate since I don't always want grapeseed extract and astaxanthin, but I think the poster would benefit most from Koncentrated K in this case.

Good thread!

Red palm oil and tocotrienols also appear to remove the plaque -

http://www.longecity...therosclerosis/


Interesting interview article on that page with Dr. Passwater, who I regard highly. I will read all 18 pages of it.
http://www.drpasswat...bierenbaum.html

I've been taking 5-6 capsules of Tocomin SuprBio tocotrienols a day for several years, so one would think from that article that I would have no plaque.

I'll read the article and consider how it fits in, though.

Thank you!

I don't have any personal experience with it but it looks interesting http://www.nanobiote...ut-nanobiotech/


Very interesting.

I'll study it and decide -- it's $199/month!

I'll also ask my functional medical doctor if he knows about it.



5-6 a day? How does that dosage compare to Life Extension Gamma E tocopherol + tocotrienols?

Where do you get the xanthohumol? (I get mine from German wheat beer, but I don't know if you can get a therapeutic dose from that without killing your liver :happy: )

Regarding your plaque, I would also keep an eye on my calcium intake. It shouldn't exeed the RDA.


I get xanthohumol from http://www.swansonvi...-mg-90-veg-caps

Calcium is in the multi I take but I don't even take half the RDA.

I take 8,500 IU of vitamin D a day, which increases calcium absorption as much as 65%, so I don't feel like I need much as far as calcium supplementation.

But the fear of calcium I believe to be somewhat misplaced.

One palatable theory is that vitamin K2 (MK4) deficiency causes problems with calcium forming plaque, rather than calcium itself being a problem.

If we don't have enough MK4 calcium can go into soft tissue, rather than where it's supposed to go, bones and teeth.



I think that much D3 sounds like overkill, have you checked your blood levels?

Btw are you aware that hops is extremely estrogenic? Not a wise idea if you are an aging male since your estrogen levels will already be high and your testosterone levels lower.

#20 Dorian Grey

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 05:50 AM

IP6 (Inositol Hexaphosphate) to the rescue: http://ibdigital.uib...201.dir/201.pdf

"Phytate Inhibits Cardiovascular Calcifications"

---------------------------------------

You might also "Get Thee to a Blood Bank": http://www.healtheir...science-library


Iron status is associated with carotid atherosclerotic plaques in middle-aged adults


Body iron stores and presence of carotid atherosclerosis. Results from the Bruneck Study


Serum ferritin-a novel risk factor in acute myocardial infarction


Ferritin is independently associated with the presence of coronary artery calcium in 12,033 men


IP6 is interesting. Thank you. However, there is a caveat:
Inositol hexaphosphate may reduce the body’s ability to absorb some minerals such as zinc, calcium, and iron. This concern has been raised mainly in regard to infants. IP6 can also reduce the amounts absorbed from mineral supplements.

As to ferritin, the multivitamin I take is iron-free and I do watch my ferritin measurement, which is not elevated or respectively high

But that is a good point, in general.


IP6 will definitely "reduce the body's ability to absorb some minerals" when taken with meals... The trick is to take it on an empty stomach with a full glass of water. When taken properly, IP6 will chelate undesirable mineral excesses without disrupting overall mineral homeostasis.

Look here: http://www.pjoes.com...7.2/283-290.pdf

"It has been shown that the antinutritional effect of IP6 could be manifested only when large amounts of IP6 were consumed together with a diet poor in trace elements, but if essential minerals were present in the proper ratio with respect to IP6, there was no modification of mineral balance"

Also... The typical upper ranges for "normal" ferritin are set outrageously high (particularly for males) by most labs. Many are now opining that when it comes to ferritin, "fifty is nifty", and anything into triple digits may be less than healthy.
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#21 zen

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 02:16 PM

I don't have any personal experience with it but it looks interesting http://www.nanobiote...ut-nanobiotech/


Very interesting.

I'll study it and decide -- it's $199/month!

I'll also ask my functional medical doctor if he knows about it.



Please report your findings, especially if you happen to decide to give it a try.

#22 mikey

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 05:40 PM

VRP has a 15 mg k2 cap. Use this coupon code to receive 40% off the listed price through 23 September (V40CIT39)
http://www.vrp.com/ultra-k2-90-caps


With that discount it's even a better deal than http://supplements.r...enone-p285.aspx - buy four and get them for $35.96.


I've been taking the Relentless brand K2 for many years until I found Koncentrated K which is cheaper and gives me more of what I want. I personally still alternate since I don't always want grapeseed extract and astaxanthin, but I think the poster would benefit most from Koncentrated K in this case.

Good thread!

Red palm oil and tocotrienols also appear to remove the plaque -

http://www.longecity...therosclerosis/


Interesting interview article on that page with Dr. Passwater, who I regard highly. I will read all 18 pages of it.
http://www.drpasswat...bierenbaum.html

I've been taking 5-6 capsules of Tocomin SuprBio tocotrienols a day for several years, so one would think from that article that I would have no plaque.

I'll read the article and consider how it fits in, though.

Thank you!

I don't have any personal experience with it but it looks interesting http://www.nanobiote...ut-nanobiotech/


Very interesting.

I'll study it and decide -- it's $199/month!

I'll also ask my functional medical doctor if he knows about it.



5-6 a day? How does that dosage compare to Life Extension Gamma E tocopherol + tocotrienols?

Where do you get the xanthohumol? (I get mine from German wheat beer, but I don't know if you can get a therapeutic dose from that without killing your liver :happy: )

Regarding your plaque, I would also keep an eye on my calcium intake. It shouldn't exeed the RDA.


I get xanthohumol from http://www.swansonvi...-mg-90-veg-caps

Calcium is in the multi I take but I don't even take half the RDA.

I take 8,500 IU of vitamin D a day, which increases calcium absorption as much as 65%, so I don't feel like I need much as far as calcium supplementation.

But the fear of calcium I believe to be somewhat misplaced.

One palatable theory is that vitamin K2 (MK4) deficiency causes problems with calcium forming plaque, rather than calcium itself being a problem.

If we don't have enough MK4 calcium can go into soft tissue, rather than where it's supposed to go, bones and teeth.



I think that much D3 sounds like overkill, have you checked your blood levels?

Btw are you aware that hops is extremely estrogenic? Not a wise idea if you are an aging male since your estrogen levels will already be high and your testosterone levels lower.


Taking 8,500 IU/day, my OH-vitamin D tests as 60 ng/ml, which is relatively perfect.

And by the way, 21 studies show vitamin D3 to be safe at 10,000 IU/day for adults. See: http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/17209171

I measure estradiol regularly and control it with very low dose anastrozole. I also monitor testosterone and keep it in medium range.

But thank you.

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#23 balance

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 05:41 PM

How do your tocotrienols compare to LEF, I'm very curious to the exact dosage comparison.

#24 mikey

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 05:48 PM

IP6 (Inositol Hexaphosphate) to the rescue: http://ibdigital.uib...201.dir/201.pdf

"Phytate Inhibits Cardiovascular Calcifications"

---------------------------------------

You might also "Get Thee to a Blood Bank": http://www.healtheir...science-library


Iron status is associated with carotid atherosclerotic plaques in middle-aged adults


Body iron stores and presence of carotid atherosclerosis. Results from the Bruneck Study


Serum ferritin-a novel risk factor in acute myocardial infarction


Ferritin is independently associated with the presence of coronary artery calcium in 12,033 men


IP6 is interesting. Thank you. However, there is a caveat:
Inositol hexaphosphate may reduce the body’s ability to absorb some minerals such as zinc, calcium, and iron. This concern has been raised mainly in regard to infants. IP6 can also reduce the amounts absorbed from mineral supplements.

As to ferritin, the multivitamin I take is iron-free and I do watch my ferritin measurement, which is not elevated or respectively high

But that is a good point, in general.


IP6 will definitely "reduce the body's ability to absorb some minerals" when taken with meals... The trick is to take it on an empty stomach with a full glass of water. When taken properly, IP6 will chelate undesirable mineral excesses without disrupting overall mineral homeostasis.

Look here: http://www.pjoes.com...7.2/283-290.pdf

"It has been shown that the antinutritional effect of IP6 could be manifested only when large amounts of IP6 were consumed together with a diet poor in trace elements, but if essential minerals were present in the proper ratio with respect to IP6, there was no modification of mineral balance"

Also... The typical upper ranges for "normal" ferritin are set outrageously high (particularly for males) by most labs. Many are now opining that when it comes to ferritin, "fifty is nifty", and anything into triple digits may be less than healthy.


When I noticed hair loss a few years back I interviewed several of the world authority doctors about it. The smartest one said that if ferritin is under 40 you will lose hair, male or female. But 70 is better. I keep mine between 60 and 70.

However, iron's lethal pro-oxidant potential is entirely contained by vitamin E, as see in the following study.

A placebo-controlled mouse study showed that when the lethal dose of iron was given to mice that were given vitamin E the day before, none of the mice died.

The study also showed that if vitamin E was given 5, 30 or 60 minutes after the lethal dose of iron was given, that 90%, 70% and 80% of the mice that were given vitamin E lived, where the control mice died.


Vitamin E administration 30 min after the lethal dose of iron was given reduced mortality by 75% compared to the mice that were not given vitamin E.

The authors said, "Data in this study indicate that vitamin E may be a useful antidote for iron toxicoses and that iron-induced depletion of vitamin E may play a role in the pathogenesis of iron toxicity.


Therefore, while we don't want to overload on iron - have high ferritin, having adequate vitamin E protects against iron's oxidative potential.


I will revisit IP6, as it appears to have considerable value in addressing plaque.


Thank you.


#25 mikey

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 05:57 PM

How do your tocotrienols compare to LEF, I'm very curious to the exact dosage comparison.


They both license Tocomin SupraBio tocotrienols - in slightly difference balances, so it's six of one, half dozen of the other.

I don't have any personal experience with it but it looks interesting http://www.nanobiote...ut-nanobiotech/


Very interesting.

I'll study it and decide -- it's $199/month!

I'll also ask my functional medical doctor if he knows about it.



Please report your findings, especially if you happen to decide to give it a try.


Will do.

#26 balance

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 06:25 PM

So 50mg tocotrienols (total) x 6?

Take a look at the labels of these 2:

http://www.lef.org/V...ey=tocotrienols

http://www.lef.org/V...cotrienols.html

Taking 6 of those would be a VERY high dose

Edited by piet3r, 21 September 2013 - 06:28 PM.


#27 mikey

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 06:58 PM

So 50mg tocotrienols (total) x 6?

Take a look at the labels of these 2:

http://www.lef.org/V...ey=tocotrienols

http://www.lef.org/V...cotrienols.html

Taking 6 of those would be a VERY high dose


The labels suggest two caps a day. But it is not toxic, so why not take more?

Generally, when labels say take two a day, the manufacturer is being prudent. When something is beneficial and non-toxic, why not take more?

I started with three capsules every morning and in five months my hair was thicker, according to friends and the mirror.

I upped it to four a day and in 18 months my hair was two shades darker.

It's a non-toxic group of antioxidants, so it's very safe.

Here's my hypothesis of how it thickens and darkens hair.

If you want to read it, the hypothesis starts on the lower right hand corner.
http://www.michaelmooney.net/hair.html

Edited by mikey, 21 September 2013 - 06:58 PM.

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#28 Deckah

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 02:00 AM

Here is another source: http://www.camformul...scriptions.html (15mg x 90capsules @ $34.96 (as of 9/21/2013))
That's around .02589 per mg compared to .037-38 for the others & .054 for thorne.

Not too mention, if you all wait until black monday/friday deals. Pureforumlas 'used'(not sure if they still do; will see) to have a 20% off coupon as part of their end of the year deals.
Which makes their thorne mk4, around $51.92 (as of 9/21/2013). Which is .0432-3 compared to the original prices (still not cheaper than the 15mg versions of mk4).

I'm a bit iffy spending that amount(even though it's cheaper than thorne and the others).
Was under the impression that mk4 should be spaced out(not just due to it's half-life) in doses and that utilization in higher doses isn't 100% (even though this is probably the case for most supps).

I'm 27. Was looking to use thorne and another higher dose for mk4 supplementation.

Edited by Deckah, 22 September 2013 - 02:01 AM.


#29 trance

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 05:28 AM

The labels suggest two caps a day. But it is not toxic, so why not take more?

Generally, when labels say take two a day, the manufacturer is being prudent. When something is beneficial and non-toxic, why not take more?

I started with three capsules every morning and in five months my hair was thicker, according to friends and the mirror.

I upped it to four a day and in 18 months my hair was two shades darker.

It's a non-toxic group of antioxidants, so it's very safe.

Here's my hypothesis of how it thickens and darkens hair.

If you want to read it, the hypothesis starts on the lower right hand corner.
http://www.michaelmooney.net/hair.html


Looking at your photos, just as an observer, your hair is actually grayer in your newer photo. This can be seen along the hairline where in your early photo the hair is almost black underneath along the hair border temple corners, near the temporal recession, of your forehead -- and darker on the top of your head. In the newer photo, it's considerably more gray overall. Also, your eyebrows are grayer in the new photo.

You look better than most 60 year olds, but I don't think there's any visual proof here that tocotrienols are making your hair darker at all.

http://www.longecity...09_36_59365.jpg

http://www.longecity...9_36_971711.jpg


Your overall skin tone and rosacea on your face are considerably improved however. This discoloration along your lower chin though seems to possibly indicate past chemical peels, photo rejuvenation, or dermabrasion therapy.

What do you attribute your better skin tone to?
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#30 August59

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 08:23 AM

Lumbrokinase, Nattokinase or Serrapeptase all have a positive effect on reducing arterial plaque.
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Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: artery, cardiovascular disease, lipids, matrix gla protein, vitamin k2 mk4, vitamin k2 mk7, xanthohumol, plaque

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