23 replies to this topic

[evolvedhuman2012]

i'm seeking a worthy substitute for coffee. my case is i been using folgers instant for years without problem tlll those damn folgers fools put too much pesticide to it and ruined it. i later found i was not the only one to experience this when i found other testimonies as well.

i seem to have difficulty finding another instant brand that comes close to the cognition and mood boast of folgers instant. i tried both lines of instants and brews. and the results ranged from some making me sleepy to others simply not striking good stable mood and cognition boost.

has anyone experienced such a wide range of differences?



i suspect the problems lie in elements ranging from how coffee's grown to it's chemical composition. i'm quite surprised folgers was the only one that got it right before. i looked into what some experts have said on the matter such a mercola.


and i'm don't want to hear the suggestion of quitting. for people who don't get the positive benefits of coffee, my argument is this ,"why give up a good thing?", just because you don't know a good substitute doesn't mean there no answer out there.


i'm quite fed up with the great number of coffee brands out there as it seem too difficult to find a good brand.


i welcome substitution ideas from intelligent people out there that know of better replacements.



i like read from an article written by a scientist saying that matcha an ideal substitute to coffee as mind/energy boost while cancelling out the "jittery" effect of it's caffeine content.


can anyone testify to comparison between matcha and coffee?

Edited by evolvedhuman2012, 01 October 2013 - 03:24 AM.

[1kgcoffee]

Can't comment on matcha but maybe yerba mate is what you seek. Inexpensive, no need for pesticides and will get you wired

[Artificiality]

Dave Asprey is a big advocate of coffee without mycotoxins, pesticides or anything else with a negative effect.
If it interests you can check this out, there is also a lot more information on his site and forums.
http://www.bulletpro...makes-you-weak/

[Luminosity]

I like matcha tea. I find coffee to be too much for me. Matcha can be very healthy, if it agrees with you. There is sweetened and unsweetened. I'd get unsweetened. If you put it in room temperature water it has very little caffeine. I do that but I guess you won't. I use YamaMotoYama brand in individual packets. You can get it in the supermarket where Iive because there are a lot of Asians here.

I hesitate to recommend coffee but I do like the taste of Mulvadi Instant Kona Coffee. Kona Coffee is my favorite and this is a very good brand. I'm sensitive to chemicals and this doesn't bother me.

[Adaptogen]

guayusa is a pretty nice 'tea'. related to yerba mate, it has as much caffeine as a cup of coffee, twice the antioxidants of green tea, and no tannins (although that might not necessarily be a good thing, only for taste). in the amazon they wake up at 4 a.m. drinking large gourds of guayusa as they share their dreams from the night before(so the runa company says...). They also say it's known as the "night watchmen" because it keeps the hunters alert throughout the night

http://www.amazon.co...a/dp/B004FSASKU

[Godof Smallthings]

Matcha is OK, but what I find works best for me is tea brewed on Japanese loose green tea leaves.

Especially when combined with 800-1600 mg piracetam, 60 mg ginkgo biloba and 2 g fish oil.

Yerba mate does not work as well as a focus booster for me as a good green tea does. Also, drinking hot mate is associated with head and neck cancer: http://oto.sagepub.c...ntent/131/6/986

[evolvedhuman2012]

ok this is off-topic but i just stumbled across guarana.

the comparison is as follow from wikipedia: "caffeine content varies between 0.7% and 1.7% of dry weight^[13] (compared with 0.4– 9.3% for tea leaves, 2.5–7.6% in guarana, and up to 3.2% for ground coffee)".

these numbers right?


anyone tried this guarana? 9.3 cap for tea? i tried regular green tea, didn't make me feel right maybe like unstable feel, dunno what's wrong with it.



i need something that allows you to control mood and cognition like you can crash. with folgers instant i crashed before till i figure out the max dose to operate at peak efficiency below crash point. but i don't get why non other coffee types and brands allowed me to do that. so everyday was peak emotion and cognition as much as my system could handle . i felt like a supercomputer.

i need a substance that just works being less influenced of brand so as to allow convenience to switch should one brand fail expectation and not needing a hard search for replacement.


i never heard of yerba mate and guarana before checking the feedbacks. these are really under the radar compared to coffee and tea eh? never seen em at most my local markets. and don't see as much history on wikipedia about either of them. even my local vitamin shoppe carry few brands of organic matcha and the only one there was extremely expensive.

Edited by evolvedhuman2012, 01 October 2013 - 11:04 AM.

[protoject]

Guarana is pretty popular, it's in a lot of energy drinks. One particularly called Bawls is quiet tasty but high in sugar. Anyway you don't wanna bust your balls buying that stuff so if anything I'd recommend pure cocoa powder. Now, for me I can;t take it because I'm hugely prone to insomnia, but if you enjoy a theobromine buzz similar to yerba mate that lasts a very long time, (and I think cocoa has caffeine in it too but from what I remember it's much bigger on the theobromine) then I'd say mix it in with a morning smoothie. For a while I was mixing it with Banana-peanutbutter-yogurt-almond milk smoothie (i have one of those cheap food proccessors for doing this, if you dont have one I do recommend).

Anyway yeah for me I can't do it because the theobromine's half life is a lot longer than coffee and I cant sleep, however it's a great mood and energy booster if you're not prone to the side effects that I am. Also if you don't have a paradoxical reaction to it that's good. Are you sure that the differences you noticed were for different brands /types of coffee? I don't necessarily doubt you but it's possible that you were having a paradoxical reaction to your usual caffeine. I get paradoxical reactions from caffeine and theobromine. Sometimes they work great and other times it seems to cause the opposite.

[chemicalambrosia]

I don't know what kinds of instant coffee you've tried, but if you haven't tried them yet try some Mexican, Central American, or South American branded instant coffees. They are generally better than American instant coffee, however I don't know if you will notice the same smooth stimulant effect or not that you've noticed from Folgers in the past. Its worth a try at least. Around here you can find them in the foreign foods isle of the grocery store. A couple examples:
http://www.alegrofoo...CFZA-Mgodb34AnQ
http://www.amazon.co...=nescafe coffee

[Godof Smallthings]

Guayusa is not the same thing as guarana. Personally I think guarana is very similar to coffee, no added benefits.

I would try some other brands of green tea (not tea bags - proper loose leaves) before ruling it out completely. I have never heard about a good green tea making anyone unstable.

[evolvedhuman2012]

ok i just tried runa guayusa from stop and shop and it doesn't do sheet for me. i'm gonna compare this to good sex. runa's like bad sex. i tried this hong kong instant coffee called "dai pai dong" and it's some buzz, certainly the best compared with all the other useless coffee brands for me, its like the mixture better whatever they did.

runa was like $5. is there a cheap sample source for guarana i can get easily get at physical store? no sense waiting for shipping if avoidable.

and folgers instant was like good sex for me. but after they pesticided it so bad , i can't ever go back to that beech. and stupid folgers don't have anything organic to rule out pesticide. it's like those idiots trying to go out of business.

Edited by evolvedhuman2012, 03 October 2013 - 05:04 AM.

[evolvedhuman2012]

ok , i been testing matcha and the first time i used it, it worked. if i have to compare it with folgers instant ,matcha felt like 80% of that in potency at least. but it seems tricky at the same time. cuz the first time, i took 1 tsp at a time, that was too weak. so i added another 2tsp the 2nd time. then 3rd time, i added another 1 tsp. and then i achieved like a satisfactory buzz state. and all these doses were in one day.

the 2nd day, i think my dosing weren't so good and the end result buzz was somewhat not as favorable. i did 3 tsp at first use then another 1 tsp the 2nd .

and the 3rd day , i did 2tsp the first use and another 2 tsp the second. and end result buzz's like better then day 2 but not as good as day 1.

and still testing...

anybody else got results like these???

Edited by evolvedhuman2012, 07 October 2013 - 09:38 AM.

[evolvedhuman2012]

done enough testing on matcha. my conclusion is i don't think matcha the same as instant coffee. yea i guess they were right about matcha having less caffeine than coffee. its like first dose i did 2tsps and some moderate buzz and even with more doses ,it eventually causes unstable cognition(not crush). and plus there's delay in hitting the senses. it just hasn't been leaving me feeling right eventually. memory strength -wise, its kinda weak . mood-wise i felt robotic neither depressed or euphoric, that ain't right...

but surprisingly i found this hong kong dai pai dong brand pre-mixed instant coffee that works much better than matcha. and the effect's consistent. the buzz hit immediately. and performs much better at lowering worry,doubt while boosting mood up somewhat. and memory strength increases much better.


green teas not the same as coffee, least to me...


if i have to rate power level, matcha would be handgun ,dpd instant coffee be shotgun and folgers instant was rocket launcher.


i'm tempted to make my own spray dried coffee . but coffee spray dryers are expensive no? and then you still have to figure out what kinda beans the good brands use eh?

[Luminosity]

I'm not sure that coffee spray dryers exist outside of an industrial setting, because most people that put that much thought into it just make themselves some coffee.

[evolvedhuman2012]

still scratching my head on this one. but matcha has been producing poor results so i have to conclude that as failed experiment. i already heard this one before that different coffee brands can have different effects. heard people say supermarket brands suck, well i haven't found a good supermarket brand either so i gave up that route.

i 'm not that convinced there's something better than coffee this far that 's reasonably priced.

i have doubts about stacks, read some med articles from docs saying that stuff hasn't been tested very long and couldn't be recommended as safe. and to boot, stacks can be expensive no? in comparison, coffee been around for centuries...

seems it's more than just caffeine to coffee, i tried caffeine powder and that stuff tasted bitter and lack euphoric buzz to say the least.

but coffee is a complicated substance no? how can coffee be so different amongst different brands?

and there's too many organic brands out there to test ... so it can be challenge to find a good one ...unless someone has a bright idea...

[evolvedhuman2012]

ok i just got a weird experience with guarana. it's effect was more unstable than matcha. i get a similar headache like coffee but the sensation regarding memory ability is not good. the euphoria was not there much , memory ability and worry sensation not good along with a feel i would describe as instability.

i admit we are all biologically different.
i used my best brand of coffee and that's much better. i don't know what the deal is!

anyone tried nootropics? how does that compared to coffee? nootropics can be pricey, no?

[Adamzski]

I went deep south south Korea for a few days this week, no where near any industry or cities and went to a green tea um plantation..


Had the best green tea latte that I could ever imagine there and I never usually drink green tea lattes
Bought a box of the organic tea and it is completely different to the usual stuff I have bought from supermarkets.
Usually I only drink it occasionally, I boil as normal pour water in cup and then leave the teabag in the cup the whole time I drink it, I usually do this and the tea gets very bitter and undrinkable when it get down to the last bit. Well this tea I bought from the plantation does not get bitter at all, even stone cold and after 15min of sitting there cold with the bag still in maybe 60ml of water. If people don't like the taste of green tea then they should try some of the very good organic stuff.

I usually work all hours on my computer and keep going by drinking packet coffee mix, probably the worst stuff I could drink but it keeps me going..
Have switched to green tea for the last two days and I'm going fine, it has suppressed my appetite some but I just make sure to eat.

So I have switched from 10+ packet coffee/sugar/powdermilk's per day to about the same amount of green tea. It cant hurt, will see how it goes.

[chemicalambrosia]

Yeah, cheap green tea(like "name brand" stuff from a normal supermarket) is a whole other product compared to high quality green tea. The good stuff can easily cost ten times as much or more than the cheap stuff though. You have to pay for quality when it comes to green tea. Good coffee is cheaper than good tea

[evolvedhuman2012]

well i been researching different stimulant for some time now. and the thing is it has been said that coffee affect everyone differently. yada, yada ,yada.

i haven't seen matcha at local market: stop and shop, trader joe, whole food, etc. how do you distinguish good green tea/ matcha from bad ones?

i tried so much different crap : guarana ,matcha, caffeine powder. they all suck or maybe it's quality. i got most from amazon. and i'm kinda annoyed so far.

i went through a great deal of trouble in the search.



a recent new experiment produced weird results. i tried brewed cafe bustelo due to overwhelming positive reviews on amazon and it was conveniently available local stop and shop.

it's espresso and man it produced weird effects like matcha and guarana. first time use produced higher buzz. second time less. then ever since, it's been causing problems. i implicated it with sleep disturbances, mood problems, confusion, cognition disruption. this sheet ruined my days throughout experimentation period. i quitted after a couple days and went back to ,"dai pai dong".

dpd produces like maybe 40% of what folgers instant had. i attribute positive effects of moderate euphoria, moderate cognitive stimulating headaches and mild dream sensation to dpd. i don't get how a hong kong company can do it so much better than these other western companies. so here's my testimony that not all brands are the same. if they the same, the effects would be similar.



the downsides to dpd are "40%" element and artifcial ingredients element. so naturally i want to get like 90 to 100 if i can find something else and something without artifical ingredients.


i even considered the controversial nootropic adderall at one point but eventually rejected it cuz of cost and potential serious health damage. and i mean it suck, why pay for pricey drug if a cheap natural plant is available that have centuries of safety history behind it compared to decades of history with adderall. which would you choose?


i make my own damn potent instant tasty coffee if i have my own lab and know the effective formula and not have to rely of unreliable businesses. geez...



what else is worth trying? i read different health sources that said caffeine alone can produce euphoria cognition boost. and i think some sources argue that coffee 's effect comes from not just caffeine alone, but orchestration of different chemicals which caffeine is part of.

anyone had experiences with caffeine powder? but then again,the whole deal with supplement is they not regulated by fda so no standards. and that translate to higher risks.

[Adamzski]

I have successfully switched to green tea from a ton of coffee, just one or two store bought cappuccinos per day now and the rest is just green tea.

You should have a look over some of the pre workout supplements, most of them have hundreds of mgs of caffeine per serve and a bunch of other stims, if you get a known brand then it should be fine, you might even get luck like I was, I was taking this craze stuf that was spiked with a meth like substance

[evolvedhuman2012]

I have successfully switched to green tea from a ton of coffee, just one or two store bought cappuccinos per day now and the rest is just green tea.

You should have a look over some of the pre workout supplements, most of them have hundreds of mgs of caffeine per serve and a bunch of other stims, if you get a known brand then it should be fine, you might even get luck like I was, I was taking this craze stuf that was spiked with a meth like substance

well it's a good thing gt's working for you...

[evolvedhuman2012]

http://www.bulletpro...makes-you-weak/


"

Good coffee is magic.
It can promote brain function, memory, and energy levels. It can serve as a massive source of antioxidants and is associated with all sorts of positive health outcomes. Coffee can even effect your body and mind like Chi Gong exercises. It can even help you build muscle without exercising. However, the wrong coffee can sap your health and hurt your performance.

"

i kinda agree with this quote from the page. but for whatever stupid reasons quality for coffee brands seem to be going downhill. and it can be a challenge to find a good brand cuz there are so many brands out there...

Edited by evolvedhuman2012, 27 December 2013 - 03:46 PM.

[chemicalambrosia]

Have you tried a variety of light and dark roasts, and light and dark combined?

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/24274681

Quantitative analysis of the bioactives trigonelline (1), N-methylpyridinium (2), caffeine (3), and caffeoylquinic acids (4) in a large set of roasted Arabica (total sample size n = 113) and Robusta coffees (total sample size n = 38) revealed that the concentrations of 1 and 4 significantly correlated with the roasting color (P < 0.001, two tailed), whereas that of 2 significantly correlated inversely with the color (P < 0.001, two tailed). As dark-roasted coffees were rich in N-methylpyridinium whereas light-roasted coffees were rich in trigonelline and caffeoylquinic acids, manufacturing of roast coffees rich in all four bioactives would therefore necessitate blending of two or even more coffees of different roasting colors. Additional experiments on the migration rates during coffee brewing showed that all four bioactives were nearly quantitatively extracted in the brew (>90%) when a water volume/coffee powder ratio of >16 was used.

There are a lot of chemical constituents in coffee so there is probably a lot of validity to your quest. There was probably something in folgers that you responded to really well, but who knows what it was.
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22019894
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/16139309

Have you tried Nescafé Green? Might be worth a shot.


What is the dai pai dong brand? Is it like this one, with tea and coffee? I'm interested in trying it. http://www.amazon.co...g/dp/B003UL0PII

[evolvedhuman2012]

Have you tried a variety of light and dark roasts, and light and dark combined?

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/24274681

Quantitative analysis of the bioactives trigonelline (1), N-methylpyridinium (2), caffeine (3), and caffeoylquinic acids (4) in a large set of roasted Arabica (total sample size n = 113) and Robusta coffees (total sample size n = 38) revealed that the concentrations of 1 and 4 significantly correlated with the roasting color (P < 0.001, two tailed), whereas that of 2 significantly correlated inversely with the color (P < 0.001, two tailed). As dark-roasted coffees were rich in N-methylpyridinium whereas light-roasted coffees were rich in trigonelline and caffeoylquinic acids, manufacturing of roast coffees rich in all four bioactives would therefore necessitate blending of two or even more coffees of different roasting colors. Additional experiments on the migration rates during coffee brewing showed that all four bioactives were nearly quantitatively extracted in the brew (>90%) when a water volume/coffee powder ratio of >16 was used.

There are a lot of chemical constituents in coffee so there is probably a lot of validity to your quest. There was probably something in folgers that you responded to really well, but who knows what it was.
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22019894
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/16139309

Have you tried Nescafé Green? Might be worth a shot.


What is the dai pai dong brand? Is it like this one, with tea and coffee? I'm interested in trying it. http://www.amazon.co...g/dp/B003UL0PII

 

 

 

 

hey nice research finds.  the dpd line i tried is just instant coffee not coffee tea mix.  let me know if you feel like my description as well.

 

like moderate euphoria, moderate cognition stimulating headaches, and this dream-like/creative -like feel.

 

 

 

 

http://www.amazon.co...ds=dai pai dong

 

 

dunno if color mixings the answer.  have you tried yet?   maybe you can help ease my research.

 

the thing is i have a daily limit on coffee, so can only try so much in a day.  i take all the help i can get with this delimma.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by evolvedhuman2012, 31 May 2014 - 09:03 AM.