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Safe Alternatives to St. John's Wort

st. johns wort anti-depressants nootropics cognitive enhancers mood stabilization

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#1 ReachMyPotential

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 05:41 AM


A few weeks ago I started taking St. John's Wort. After several days, I started noticing some really positive effects. My mood was improved, my mind was clearer, I was more content/happy with life, problems suddenly didn't seem as big as they used to, and I was focused on the positive -- like all the time. It gave me a sense of confidence and fulfillment that I'm not sure I've ever had before. It made it easier for me to smile, laugh, and most importantly -- feel a wide variety of emotions, mostly positive ones, that I feel like I haven't felt for years. Incredible.

I suppose these are all classic symptoms of a depressed person healing/getting better, and to some degree I think I've had mild to moderate depression, on-and-off for the past several years. How good it felt.

The problem is, within the past few days I was doing some research and discovered that Hypericin, the active ingredient in SJW, has significant potential to cause irreversible eye damage over the course of time. You can read more about this in this thread. I'm frequently exposed to sunlight in situations where sunglasses are not an option, and even if I wasn't, I wouldn't want to risk it. Thus, I decided to completely discontinue SJW 3 days ago, and sure enough the anhedonia and depressive symptoms have set back in. Honestly the turnaround was really fast; I would've thought it would've more gradually tapered off, but no -- the SJW was definitely working when it was in my system, and as soon as I stopped, the lights went out. Those lively emotions died back down, and I'm just a little more irritable again.

This now puts me in the position to find a suitable substitute to SJW. Is there anything that's very similar? Has anyone experienced success with SJW but also found that another supplement produced the same positive effects?

#2 Galaxyshock

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 11:43 AM

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/9342768

In spite of these high doses in the double blind single dose part, frequency of side effects was equal to placebo medication and UV light sensitivity was not or only marginally increased. The study does not, however, exclude phototoxic reactions with doses above 11.25 mg of total hypericin and plasma levels above 100 micrograms/L. Furthermore, phototoxicity may be different after application of pure hypericin, since some constituents in the plant extract may exhibit protective effects.


I've used SJW a lot during this year and haven't experienced any UV-sensitivity issues.

You could of course use Perika SJW which is standardized to Hyperforin and works a bit differently.

Edited by Galaxyshock, 13 October 2013 - 11:47 AM.


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#3 ReachMyPotential

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 06:27 PM

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/9342768

In spite of these high doses in the double blind single dose part, frequency of side effects was equal to placebo medication and UV light sensitivity was not or only marginally increased. The study does not, however, exclude phototoxic reactions with doses above 11.25 mg of total hypericin and plasma levels above 100 micrograms/L. Furthermore, phototoxicity may be different after application of pure hypericin, since some constituents in the plant extract may exhibit protective effects.


I've used SJW a lot during this year and haven't experienced any UV-sensitivity issues.

You could of course use Perika SJW which is standardized to Hyperforin and works a bit differently.


I don't doubt that you haven't experienced (noticeably) any UV-sensitivity issues, but that doesn't mean they aren't occurring. From the studies I've read, it seems clear that there's a connection between hypericin and eventual cataracts/vision damage, and it may take years to develop to a noticeable point. In the 2002 NHIS study, they found people with cataracts were 59% more likely to report SJW usage than not, after adjusting for other confounding factors.

I realize it's not conclusive, but it seems to me that there's enough probability to have issues with eyesight in the long run that I'd rather not risk it. If I'm wrong, then I guess I missed out on the benefits of SJW, but if I'm right, I saved my eyesight. Ultimately this is more important to me.

#4 Sasha_

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 08:55 AM

I know that's a real bummer, I used to take SJW and Rhodiola together with great results but discontinued cause of this study. I just don't want to take any chance.
Since then I experimented with CILTEP (500mg ALCAR, 500mg Artichoke extract, 10mg Forskolin, 200mg CDP choline.)
which is purported to enhance LTP and therefore learning/memorization process, but has a pleasant mood elevating side effect, found it to help a lot with social anxiety too.
But being a very (perhaps overly) cautious person, I don't use that stack everyday, for lack of knowledge considering its chronic use long term effects.
I just got some Ashwagandha from LEF, and so far it seems to work nicely, can't take it during the day though, it just mellows me out way too much. But taken at night, I sleep like a baby and wake up refreshed with pleasant memories of epic vivid dreams. I am just a few days into it, but so far so good.
I guess you could also try small doses of 5-htp (50mg) now and then, you will recognise that same serotonin feeling you get from SJW.
That's for the herbal stuff, but if you are willing to try racetams, I can really vouch for aniracetam being of a great help,
at 500mg twice daily taken with eggs and CDP choline.

#5 ReachMyPotential

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 04:03 PM

I know that's a real bummer, I used to take SJW and Rhodiola together with great results but discontinued cause of this study. I just don't want to take any chance.
Since then I experimented with CILTEP (500mg ALCAR, 500mg Artichoke extract, 10mg Forskolin, 200mg CDP choline.)
which is purported to enhance LTP and therefore learning/memorization process, but has a pleasant mood elevating side effect, found it to help a lot with social anxiety too.
But being a very (perhaps overly) cautious person, I don't use that stack everyday, for lack of knowledge considering its chronic use long term effects.
I just got some Ashwagandha from LEF, and so far it seems to work nicely, can't take it during the day though, it just mellows me out way too much. But taken at night, I sleep like a baby and wake up refreshed with pleasant memories of epic vivid dreams. I am just a few days into it, but so far so good.
I guess you could also try small doses of 5-htp (50mg) now and then, you will recognise that same serotonin feeling you get from SJW.
That's for the herbal stuff, but if you are willing to try racetams, I can really vouch for aniracetam being of a great help,
at 500mg twice daily taken with eggs and CDP choline.


Thanks for the response, it sounds like we're in the same boat. It really is a shame that SJW has such negative side-effect potential; it was something of a magic bullet for me until I realized this. Especially for me living in sunny San Diego, often going to the beach and generally out in the sun quite frequently, this is just such a huge no-no for me.

I haven't tried CILTEP or any of its ingredients except for CDP Choline. I do notice some positive nootropic effects from CDP Choline, and I've heard it can upregulate DA. I've been experimenting with various amounts of CDP Choline with Aniracetam -- usually either 250mg, 500mg, or 750mg CDP Choline with either 750mg, 1g, or 1.5g Ani. The more of one, the more of the other I usually take. Right now I'm finding the best results with 750mg of each together with eggs and coffee in the morning.

I had some good results when trying Ashwagandha for 2 weeks more or less by itself, I think I was taking the NOW brand 3 pills a day, 1 before breakfast, 1 before lunch, and 1 either before dinner or bed. It didn't mellow me out too much, and it wasn't instantly noticeable, but as time went on I noticed an increased confidence and overall feeling of well-being. Not as potent as SJW, but it might be worth revisiting it again in the near future to see how it fares with my current stack.

I've been reading a lot about triple reuptake inhibitors, since that's a big part of how hyperforin in SJW works. This is also where modern medicine is at in terms of depression research, in my understanding. I've searched high and low for "pure hyperforin", but the only results that come up are SJW extracts standardized to X% of hyperforin. Aside from exploring this possibility, I've considered the notion of piecing together a triple-reuptake "stack", if you will, wherein various supplements could be used in combination to achieve the same effect. I've thought perhaps individual reuptake inhibitors of DA, NA, and 5-HT could be used together to simulate SJW.

However, I realize the odds of putting all this together in the right combination/proportion to properly emulate SJW would be difficult and likely require much experimentation; not to mention, many of the individual reuptake inhibitors I've researched have their own subset of undesirable side effects. For instance, Ginkgo Biloba acts as a NA reuptake inhibitor (and may even help stimulate dopamine production through secondary methods) but may increase the risk of brain hemorrhage in the long run, so this is off the table for daily stacking purposes for me. Something else to consider is that there are other compounds and flavonoids in SJW that appear to be active and have other cumulatory effects, which could be lost when simply targeting DA, NA, and 5-HT alone.

#6 Sasha_

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 04:29 PM

Well, I read about people having good experiences with turmeric alone, perhaps you should try that as well in your quest for the most suitable supplement.

#7 ReachMyPotential

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 05:51 PM

Well, I read about people having good experiences with turmeric alone, perhaps you should try that as well in your quest for the most suitable supplement.


Great advice, Sasha. One of my friends recently forwarded me an article regarding many touted benefits of Turmeric, as well. It appears the active ingredient is more or less a broad-spectrum health elixir with several beneficial properties. I just took 1.0g turmeric powder from my spice cupboard along with 100mg fresh ground black pepper; we'll see what happens!

#8 calm--

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 08:30 AM

 

Well, I read about people having good experiences with turmeric alone, perhaps you should try that as well in your quest for the most suitable supplement.


Great advice, Sasha. One of my friends recently forwarded me an article regarding many touted benefits of Turmeric, as well. It appears the active ingredient is more or less a broad-spectrum health elixir with several beneficial properties. I just took 1.0g turmeric powder from my spice cupboard along with 100mg fresh ground black pepper; we'll see what happens!

 

Hi there. I stumbled across this thread when looking for links between St John's Wort and cataract. I'm thinking of starting St Johns Wort for my depression, but I'm also worried about the cataract issue. But now that I see talk of turmeric, I become interested. Did you continue taking turmeric and feel anything from it?



#9 Singlehandedsailor

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Posted 28 June 2014 - 05:11 AM

Trimethylglycine, L-tyrosine, L-tryptophan, Saffron, Inositol (12-18g/day)?

 


Edited by Singlehandedsailor, 28 June 2014 - 05:12 AM.


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#10 freddie

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 01:43 PM

It's 2018 and I still can't find pure hyperforin supplement or at least St. John's worth without hypericin. I used johns worth and it did have a nice effect on my mood but I also noticed photosensitivity and fleeting grey dots in my vision field which I guess was caused by the hypericin, so I stopped using it. 


Edited by freddie, 13 March 2018 - 01:45 PM.






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