13 replies to this topic

[pinnacle]

I'd like to start out by saying I've read many varying Phenylpiracetam accounts, and they truly do vary a lot. However in my case it's a definite positive feedback. Please note everyone's experience is different and I only reflect my own personal experience. I'm not trying to sell it to anyone, nor put anyone off it. And as always, these are research chemicals, so take care and do your own research!

Now I've tried several of the 'racetams - Oxi, Pram, the original Piracetam, and also Noopept. Each did a little something for me, but nothing too spectacular. I noticed the the subtleties they were doing, but then I think I am fairly perceptive to any changes in my body. Whereas Phenylpiracetam is very pronounced.

SO, I received the Phenyl last week, I believe the quality is exceptional, although I'm no medicinal chemist (I do, however have a good mate who is, but we'll touch on that another time - as I would be very interested to have it tested!). It's a fluffly white powder and upon close inspection I can see magnificent little crystalline structures. It also tastes horrific. There is minor clumping, but I think that is to be expected when you have raw material like this with no fillers or binders added. I threw in a silicon bag for good measure as I wanted to ensure no moisture gets in.

I began by trying 150mg, at this dose there was some effect, but could be placebo. Later that same day I had another 150mg and this time I noticed a slight energy boost and mental clarity.

The following day I had 200mg and later another 200mg. I was very alert and productive at work and certainly needed no coffee to pick me up. I work a lot of night shifts so this is excellent stuff for staying alert. Although that night I did not get much sleep, the following day I was surprised to wake up feeling very refreshed and ready to go.

The next day I decided to try 400mg in one dose. WOW holy jeebus I was impressed to find that after an hour had passed I was extremely alert, focused and at times borderlining on pleasant euphoria. There was a fleeting anxiety at this dose, but then I am prone to a small degree of anxiety (too much caffeine doesn't sit well with me) but this was tolerable. At times I did feel as though I could not sit still and needed to be doing something. I can see how , although I can see potential to be uncomfortable with this feeling. I can describe the effects as almost like mild amphetamine, very clean, but not jittery. And also an enhanced appreciation for music and sunshine felt particularly good. I had planned to take another smaller dose that afternoon, but there was no need and I didn't want to push it.

I haven't experimented further yet, but so far no tolerance. I can also say I don't seem to be affected by having an empty or full stomach when taking it. It's also not something I feel inclined to take everyday as it is so powerful and under some circumstances may be highly inappropriate.

If it's of any interest my daily regime at the moment is:

SAM-e 400mg
Fish Oil providing EPA 1300mg | DHA 900mg
Magnesium (as Citrate-Malate) 540mg
Pyridoxine (B6) 50mg
Zinc (as Zinc Picolinate) 30mg
Vitamin D 2000 IU
Alpha-GPC 1200mg
Phosphatidylserine 200mg
Vinpocetine 40mg
Uridine 100mg
Astaxanthin 12mg
Taurine 1500mg

I hope this is useful and I'll post updates when I try some more.

[pinnacle]

I tried another 300mg followed by 300mg 1.5 hours later and although there was profound effects: anti-fatigue, mental alertness, a drive/motivation to do things. It's very much lacking the "feel-good" factor that was experienced the other day with 400mg. So I guess this is the tolerance people speak of. Also of note, I had this on a completely empty stomach this time.

I will continue to investigate how often this should be used and how much of a break must be taken to get back to the original experience (if it is at all possible?). I also plan to try 200mg before my marathon this weekend and see what the purported stamina boosting effects are like. I am also interested as to how Theanine might synergize with this. Perhaps 400mg Phenylpiracetam and 600mg Theanine.

It's interesting today I feel like it's more of a dopaminergic tolerance and mild come down that is coming into play than anything else, but that's just my own feelings. I say this mainly because of the sensation within my body like that of coming down from an MDMA high (which I don't do anymore btw). And also the slight irritability towards the end of the day.

My medicinal chemist mate had the following to say, until he can look at it properly:

My guess would be (among other factors) is that the phenyl ring makes it more lipophilic so more crosses the blood brain barrier. It may not be because the compound itself is much stronger, just that you have a higher bioavailability. It could also be that the particular receptor/s it is acting on have a higher binding affinity with the phenyl group present, or even that it acts on different receptors entirely. I couldn't say without looking at any physicochemical data.

I'm curious if it is purely a nicotinic acetylcholine receptor desensitization that reduces the effectiveness, then by what natural means and supplements could potentially re-sensitize the receptors? I'm guessing Alpha-GPC or another choline source doesn't cut it.
Now going a tangent here (and I could be way off on my presumptions) but I would like to see if it is a dopaminergic/adrenergic factor, then whether things like Rhodiola, Tyrosine would be beneficial? On another note, perhaps the adrenergic activity is actually what becomes unpleasant after regular use and some things could be used to counter this?

[Being Tesla]

Read my post, dude. I am having a lot of success with my stack of Phenylpiracetam, and I am totally getting the "feel good" effect that is advertised, but it has a lot to do with the fact that I'm on a good stack. With all the fish oil, Alpha GPC, and other things that you're taking, you probably feel a bit nauxeated. Some of the things that you're taking are totally negating your experience. I've never had success with fish oil, as it isn't something that has any effect on your mood, it is purely a health thing. Most of the other things that you're taking are not going to have much effect individually, and you definitely want to take something that reduces your toxicity levels, seeing as virtually everything that you're taking boosts dopamine levels in the blood. Remember the point of dopamine is that it should be in your brain, not your body.

http://www.longecity...uper-effective/

That's the link to my piece. Read it, and improve your stack with things that actually work because most of the things you're stacking with are not helping you in any real significant way.

http://www.longecity...uper-effective/

Edited by beingtesla, 30 October 2013 - 05:45 AM.

[Introspecta]

I can't seem to ge the phenylpircetam effects back even after a month break. It just doens't work the same anymore. My first 5-10 times it was great but theres some sort of perma tolerance going on. My only theory is my brain is now these days after using other supplements missing something that is vital for phenylpiracetam to work. ANyone else get a semi permanant tolerance to phenylpiracetam.

I miss that light on my feet focus for hours on end.

[pinnacle]

Thanks for your post man. I'm wary of combining Phenylpiracetam with stimulants and would prefer not to explore that avenue in order to get the full effects back.

I do like my fish oil and can't see how what would interfere.

Some of the things that you're taking are totally negating your experience.

Would you be able to elaborate specifics? ...You think I should drop Alpha-GPC?

Update: I tried 400mg Phenylpiracetam today with 900mg Theanine (Suntheanine) which is really nice, very clear and clean, with less of an anxious sensation. I actually feel I can focus a lot better and it's not producing the scatter-brain like effect that I was having the other day with 400mg. Also had it on a full stomach. And there's definitely a strong motivation and increased ability to do productive work. Although I could be equally happy lazying around home with some tunes. :-D And interestingly the tolerance isn't all that noticeable today (but still don't have that uber "feel-good" thing going on like the other day with 400mg).
I think it could also be highly dependent on your setting and surroundings? Just a thought.

I'm curious if there's some things which compete with phenylpiracetam for absorption and transport into the brain and similarly if some things which enhance it's ability to reach the brain? Is it decided whether it is lipid or water soluble?

A little off topic - it does seem to mix wonderfully with a couple beers as far as conversation goes and with less of the negative effects of alcohol on the mind.

I gave my partner some for her study and her experience was that it was an incredible focus enhancer but at times too much energy to stay put and study, rather she felt like going wandering and pondering worldly things ;)

I'm certainly no neuroscientist and I expect I may be way off on my speculation here - but would taking an electrolyte mix on the side with the phenyl be beneficial for allowing influx of cations such as potassium, calcium and sodium through the ligand-gated ion channels? I understand that's partly how this exerts it's effects on the brain...?

Cheers

[Being Tesla]

Thanks for your post man. I'm wary of combining Phenylpiracetam with stimulants and would prefer not to explore that avenue in order to get the full effects back.

I do like my fish oil and can't see how what would interfere.

Some of the things that you're taking are totally negating your experience.

Would you be able to elaborate specifics? ...You think I should drop Alpha-GPC?

Update: I tried 400mg Phenylpiracetam today with 900mg Theanine (Suntheanine) which is really nice, very clear and clean, with less of an anxious sensation. I actually feel I can focus a lot better and it's not producing the scatter-brain like effect that I was having the other day with 400mg. Also had it on a full stomach. And there's definitely a strong motivation and increased ability to do productive work. Although I could be equally happy lazying around home with some tunes. And interestingly the tolerance isn't all that noticeable today (but still don't have that uber "feel-good" thing going on like the other day with 400mg).
I think it could also be highly dependent on your setting and surroundings? Just a thought.

I'm curious if there's some things which compete with phenylpiracetam for absorption and transport into the brain and similarly if some things which enhance it's ability to reach the brain? Is it decided whether it is lipid or water soluble?

A little off topic - it does seem to mix wonderfully with a couple beers as far as conversation goes and with less of the negative effects of alcohol on the mind.

I gave my partner some for her study and her experience was that it was an incredible focus enhancer but at times too much energy to stay put and study, rather she felt like going wandering and pondering worldly things

I'm certainly no neuroscientist and I expect I may be way off on my speculation here - but would taking an electrolyte mix on the side with the phenyl be beneficial for allowing influx of cations such as potassium, calcium and sodium through the ligand-gated ion channels? I understand that's partly how this exerts it's effects on the brain...?

Cheers

I personally see little reason to take Omega 3, but since you find it to be beneficial, then it's okay I guess. I can't stand the taste in my mouth, when fish oil is in my body. I can take orange flavored Omega 3 chews, that basically taste like Starbursts, but omega 3 oil capsules are awful for me. They also don't have any noticeable effect, like attention, so I don't see the major point of them. I'd rather just eat eggs that contain Omega 3, eat some Omega 3 chews, and just call it a day.

Alpha GPC is one of those things that I prefer not to take as an individual supplement. If it is a part of something else then maybe, but my policy is never to take individual doses of that kind of GNC/Vitamin Shoppe supplement because I find that their doses are sporadic. I prefer to take things that won't throw off the levels of individual vitamins in my body. I take a powder vitamin mixture, that I mix into my Cellucor C4 and Redline Energy drink, and that is enough to get me to stage one of my energy levels. Stage 2 is when I take my phenyl, sunifiram, and phenibut. The phenibut is like the balancing supplement, and it balances the effects of the other two, so that even though I am super energetic, it feels totally balanced. The one pill that I take that is kinda GNC/Vitamin Shoppe is Huperzine A, but that is the only thing. I also buy Acai berry juice, and take a couple swigs of it at night.

I don't think I can offer advice of what exactly you should do. I can only tell you that I am having the most success with school, work, dealing with my family and friends, than I ever have before, and my energy levels and attention used to be a very huge problem for me. Now I'm able to keep a good job, do my school work for my online university program (I'm studying Finance, and I got an A in my first class), and everything is improving gradually and dramatically because I am able to do such high quality work, while paying excellent attention to anything and anyone that I want. I don't feel druggy at all, I just feel super motivated, and the only challenge I have every day is figuring out new ways to channel my super focus and energy, so that I keep being this productive person that I am being and becoming.

Goodluck to you in your own endeavors.

[123]

I'm certainly no neuroscientist and I expect I may be way off on my speculation here - but would taking an electrolyte mix on the side with the phenyl be beneficial for allowing influx of cations such as potassium, calcium and sodium through the ligand-gated ion channels? I understand that's partly how this exerts it's effects on the brain...?

Wow, thanks for and excellent review and some nice ideas about p-p.
I am trying to research it for last 3 months. All the data about its mechanism of action is very poor.
But I have some advantage over you because have access to the rusky-language materials on this drug.

The idea about phenyl ring is better availability is somewhere near to the truth. I met this idea before in professional literature.
But it doesn't seem the only reason for p-p effect.
If we talk about chemistry, the structure of the molecule of p-p is very close to the nicotine. And p-p metabolite is like nicotine's brother. So there definitely should be some relations, especially having in mind that p-p almost do not works while smoking tobacco (possible due to nicotinic receptor desensitization when taking cigarettes).

All I have learned about this drug makes me suppose a model of its mechanism of action:
1) P-p activates choline system.
2) And then p-p + choline system activate dopaminergic system.

The loss of efficacy could be in any of these two steps.
You may try to use magnesium to resens. choline system, but I dont think it can make real business. Increasing\decreasing choline content in the food may have some effect too.
Caffeine seems to enforce very much the second step - activation of dopamine system.

Your idea of taking electrolyte mix is really great. I am pretty sure that phenylpiracetam in all the ways of its action works through the calcium\potassium\sodium balance of the neuron. And I think that majority of cases p-p doesn't works (or claimed to be fake substance) is that it works only in very specific ion environment. It may be also the main reason for p-p 'tolerance' which do not seems to be a real tolerance - just the cell ion balance regulation and difference in food content.

it is really interesting your results on taking electrolyte mixes, so please share them if it is possible.
But you must understand that there are quite complicated mechanisms of regulation ion content in the cell. All the ATP-ases that regulate it are pretty plastic to up\down-regulate their gene expression. So this regulation may work as for you as against you in terms of dopaminergic effect of p-p.

[pinnacle]

I'm certainly no neuroscientist and I expect I may be way off on my speculation here - but would taking an electrolyte mix on the side with the phenyl be beneficial for allowing influx of cations such as potassium, calcium and sodium through the ligand-gated ion channels? I understand that's partly how this exerts it's effects on the brain...?

Wow, thanks for and excellent review and some nice ideas about p-p.
I am trying to research it for last 3 months. All the data about its mechanism of action is very poor.
But I have some advantage over you because have access to the rusky-language materials on this drug.

The idea about phenyl ring is better availability is somewhere near to the truth. I met this idea before in professional literature.
But it doesn't seem the only reason for p-p effect.
If we talk about chemistry, the structure of the molecule of p-p is very close to the nicotine. And p-p metabolite is like nicotine's brother. So there definitely should be some relations, especially having in mind that p-p almost do not works while smoking tobacco (possible due to nicotinic receptor desensitization when taking cigarettes).

All I have learned about this drug makes me suppose a model of its mechanism of action:
1) P-p activates choline system.
2) And then p-p + choline system activate dopaminergic system.

The loss of efficacy could be in any of these two steps.
You may try to use magnesium to resens. choline system, but I dont think it can make real business. Increasing\decreasing choline content in the food may have some effect too.
Caffeine seems to enforce very much the second step - activation of dopamine system.

Your idea of taking electrolyte mix is really great. I am pretty sure that phenylpiracetam in all the ways of its action works through the calcium\potassium\sodium balance of the neuron. And I think that majority of cases p-p doesn't works (or claimed to be fake substance) is that it works only in very specific ion environment. It may be also the main reason for p-p 'tolerance' which do not seems to be a real tolerance - just the cell ion balance regulation and difference in food content.

it is really interesting your results on taking electrolyte mixes, so please share them if it is possible.
But you must understand that there are quite complicated mechanisms of regulation ion content in the cell. All the ATP-ases that regulate it are pretty plastic to up\down-regulate their gene expression. So this regulation may work as for you as against you in terms of dopaminergic effect of p-p.

Hi, thanks for your useful reply!

I find it fascinating stuff. I took a few days off it and have tried again with 400mg today: made sure I was in a good headspace, had a good sleep the night before, had a big breakfast and plenty of hydration. Waited 2 hours after eating. Co-administered 600mg L-Theanine and then a further 300mg (I really feel there is some strong synergistic mechanism going on here, or one potentiating the other?). Also took larger than usual amounts of Magnesium this morning and again just prior to taking the Phenyl-p (not sure if this has any real difference on it though).

Happy to say that it's working fantastically and feel a magnificent kind of lucid high. I noticed it kick in within half an hour. The world is very vibrant and yet I feel relaxed and simple tasks are extremely enjoyable. Although not quite like the first time, I feel like I'm able to get back a decent amount of it's effects.

I'm not sure what other factors there are, I could mention all sorts of things I got up to today - but it's probably irrelevant.

I do think, however, that this a very delicate type of 'racetam and highly susceptible to whatever balance that is required to properly exert it's effects. Or possibly as 123 said: only in very specific ion environment?
It's simply not well understood, yet.

An interesting discussion here on Theanine: http://www.bluelight...p/t-393897.html ...NMDA antagonism maybe?

[riloal]

pinnacle, any update? Thanks

[Sunwind]

I can't seem to ge the phenylpircetam effects back even after a month break. It just doens't work the same anymore. My first 5-10 times it was great but theres some sort of perma tolerance going on. My only theory is my brain is now these days after using other supplements missing something that is vital for phenylpiracetam to work. ANyone else get a semi permanant tolerance to phenylpiracetam.

I miss that light on my feet focus for hours on end.

I experienced the same "perma tolerance" thing with almost every common chemical posted about on here, same with p-pira. Even after months of not using it, I don't get the 'feel good/mood elevation' I got when I first took it.

I take it now about 2 or 3 days a week 100-300mg at a time, it still has a mild stimulatory effect and I love the cold tolerance it gives me, I can be outside in the cold in a t-shirt and feel fine when my friends are wearing thick coats complaining about the weather.

[unregistered_user]

I'm certainly no neuroscientist and I expect I may be way off on my speculation here - but would taking an electrolyte mix on the side with the phenyl be beneficial for allowing influx of cations such as potassium, calcium and sodium through the ligand-gated ion channels? I understand that's partly how this exerts it's effects on the brain...?

Wow, thanks for and excellent review and some nice ideas about p-p.
I am trying to research it for last 3 months. All the data about its mechanism of action is very poor.
But I have some advantage over you because have access to the rusky-language materials on this drug.

The idea about phenyl ring is better availability is somewhere near to the truth. I met this idea before in professional literature.
But it doesn't seem the only reason for p-p effect.
If we talk about chemistry, the structure of the molecule of p-p is very close to the nicotine. And p-p metabolite is like nicotine's brother. So there definitely should be some relations, especially having in mind that p-p almost do not works while smoking tobacco (possible due to nicotinic receptor desensitization when taking cigarettes).

All I have learned about this drug makes me suppose a model of its mechanism of action:
1) P-p activates choline system.
2) And then p-p + choline system activate dopaminergic system.

The loss of efficacy could be in any of these two steps.
You may try to use magnesium to resens. choline system, but I dont think it can make real business. Increasing\decreasing choline content in the food may have some effect too.
Caffeine seems to enforce very much the second step - activation of dopamine system.

Your idea of taking electrolyte mix is really great. I am pretty sure that phenylpiracetam in all the ways of its action works through the calcium\potassium\sodium balance of the neuron. And I think that majority of cases p-p doesn't works (or claimed to be fake substance) is that it works only in very specific ion environment. It may be also the main reason for p-p 'tolerance' which do not seems to be a real tolerance - just the cell ion balance regulation and difference in food content.

it is really interesting your results on taking electrolyte mixes, so please share them if it is possible.
But you must understand that there are quite complicated mechanisms of regulation ion content in the cell. All the ATP-ases that regulate it are pretty plastic to up\down-regulate their gene expression. So this regulation may work as for you as against you in terms of dopaminergic effect of p-p.

Hi, thanks for your useful reply!

I find it fascinating stuff. I took a few days off it and have tried again with 400mg today: made sure I was in a good headspace, had a good sleep the night before, had a big breakfast and plenty of hydration. Waited 2 hours after eating. Co-administered 600mg L-Theanine and then a further 300mg (I really feel there is some strong synergistic mechanism going on here, or one potentiating the other?). Also took larger than usual amounts of Magnesium this morning and again just prior to taking the Phenyl-p (not sure if this has any real difference on it though).

Happy to say that it's working fantastically and feel a magnificent kind of lucid high. I noticed it kick in within half an hour. The world is very vibrant and yet I feel relaxed and simple tasks are extremely enjoyable. Although not quite like the first time, I feel like I'm able to get back a decent amount of it's effects.

I'm not sure what other factors there are, I could mention all sorts of things I got up to today - but it's probably irrelevant.

I do think, however, that this a very delicate type of 'racetam and highly susceptible to whatever balance that is required to properly exert it's effects. Or possibly as 123 said: only in very specific ion environment?
It's simply not well understood, yet.

An interesting discussion here on Theanine: http://www.bluelight...p/t-393897.html ...NMDA antagonism maybe?

How has the last month treated you?

[NZT-49]

I tried Phenyl- for the first time and all I can say is WOW. Increased focus, energy, quick thinking above all other Noots I've tried. Here's the stack I used.

10mg Sunifiram
200mg Phenylpiracetam
200mg Caffeine
100mg L-Theanine
750mg Choline Bitartrate

I have tried other combinations with higher doses with the ingredients above as well as high doses of Noopept, Piracetam, Oxiracetam, Sunifiram, Caffeine, etc. but Phenyl is also my favorite. To avoid tolerance I will treat Phenyl the same as Phenibut. 2 times a week max on non-consecutive days in times of need.

[nubiensunset]

Phenylpiracetam is definitly the most noticeable racetam I have tried. I have only used the phenylpiracetam I have from Liftmode but it seems to be very high quality and its been lasting me a while.

I have not pushed it over 115mg, its quite strong for me ~100. If I take it too late in the day I have a bit of trouble getting to sleep. Good to take in the morning as it last throughout the day for me.

My first experiences with it:

Dose: 100mg
The first at work, I noticed myself moving through the days activities without second thought. I would work, but was not dragging my heels as I would often be aware of myself doing. This energy and steadfastness lasted throughout the entire day. -Note: Coffee was too strong however, I ordered a cortadito double but could only drink a few sips. High potentiation.

Dose:115mg
I took this before a business dinner. I noticed I was very focused, aware of every breath. I went through the motions of the dinner effortlessly and it was quite enjoyable. A notable reduction in the low level anxiety that can sometimes accompany these events. I took it around 4:30pm, noticed I had trouble sleeping that night.


My most recent experience was last week. I took a dose of 100mg. Noticed significant alertness and stimulating. I normally workout 2 days a week. I did what I normally do in both those days in this one workout. I was able to push through fatigue and the mental stimulation had me in the mood. I then directed my energy towards working on my applications for grad school I had been putting off.


I find Phenylpiracetam to be a potent/valuable racetam to have on hand. Not for everyday use. Appropriate for occasional projects or special events that would be aided by the boost ime. Tolerance can appear if used repeatedly. I noticed no signs of tolerance when spreading my doses a week a part. I cannot comment on the quality of other vendors, but Liftmodes phenylpiracetam so far has been top notch.

Edited by nubiensunset, 23 December 2013 - 10:11 PM.

[Neoracetam]

After having tried several racetams, including Noopept, I can definitely say that Phenylpiracetam is my favorite. Along with the cognitive effects I’ve come to expect from the racetams in general, Phenylpiracetam has that slight-to-moderate stimulant effect I’ve been looking for.

It’s nowhere near as strong as Adderall, which I have prescribed for ADHD, but it gets the job done, particularly when I can’t get my prescription or have to wait. I feel activated, awake, and energized on it. I can start feeling it on 100mg and usually work my way up to 300mg, so far.

I’ve found that Phenylpiracetam doesn’t improve my memory, but increases alertness and attention. It works more like a traditional stimulant for me, but with more of the cognitive effects and none of the peripheral ones like an increase in blood pressure or heart rate.