21 replies to this topic

[Absent]

I've been debating getting on ALCAR(Acetyl-L-Carnitine) recently since I've been seeing it in numerous stacks, and suggested as one of the best core nootropics of any stack. While I have been able to find peoples various experiences of it, I have not been able to find a general list that has the possible/common effects, and/or why they happen.

Can anybody who knows about this share? I'm not looking for indepth neurological mechanisms, but just general effects a person should except when taking ALCAR 500mg-2g daily. I've read things such as peoples creativity being boosted, thought complexity being enhanced, ability to understand/problem solve being enhnaced, attention/alertness being enhanced, endurance and temperature tolerance being enhanced, etc. How is this stuff thought to work to do these things? By the sounds of it I would assume Acetylcholine is partially involved. Ideas?

[Godof Smallthings]

You should start here: http://www.longecity...nisms-of-alcar/

[Absent]

Already looked at that. I got my Alcar today so I'm going to try it. While I am aware of the mechanisms, I'd rather prefer to hear what people subjectively experience. Mechanisms only tell so much in terms of what's to be expected.

[8bitmore]

Already looked at that. I got my Alcar today so I'm going to try it. While I am aware of the mechanisms, I'd rather prefer to hear what people subjectively experience. Mechanisms only tell so much in terms of what's to be expected.

I have been using ALCAR on/off for couple of years and my reaction to it is atypical when compared to many other reports I've seen out there but then you asked for something subjective - I can only take very small amount (100mg as weighed out on proper scale) of ALCAR, especially when starting up a cycle of it (1 month has been typical time frame for me). If I go over this amount for the first week or so I immediately get quite strong head-pressure/brain-fog in a way I had never experienced before dosing ALCAR, it does not feel toxic per say but certainly is NOT a state I would want to knowingly put myself in so I am always careful using smaller doses. Have never experienced any subjective cognitive benefits of ALCAR and have simply been cycling it for its reported health/longevity benefits.

[Adaptogen]

It's a shame there is that connection between carnitine consumption, increased TMAO levels, and heart disease.

[niner]

It's a shame there is that connection between carnitine consumption, increased TMAO levels, and heart disease.

I agree. I quit ALCAR because of that. At the time, I'd been taking ALCAR for the increase in endurance. I never noticed anything whatsoever in the nootropic realm. I felt like I was getting a much bigger endurance boost from C60, and I didn't need ALCAR anymore, so I didn't mind stopping. However, after being off ALCAR for a while, I noticed two things: I got fatter, particularly in my abdomen, which had previously been good. I also saw my lp(a) increase by about 5 points. I've now started ALCAR again at a lower dose (500mg/d), and have lost some of the gut. I didn't recheck my lp(a), but will get that next time around.

[Absent]

I took 2000mg ALCAR, today, along with 250mg Uridine MP sublingually, and I can't say I have noticed much of a difference. This is likely because my recent stack additions have got me functioning in a sort of peak state it seems. No supplement I take seems to be able to bring me up any further, at least, that seems to be the case with the recent ALCAR and UMP dosage.

I'm getting CDP Choline in a few days, gonna continue the ALCAR @ 2g daily and the UMP for another 2 weeks. If I don't notice anything significant, I may drop the ALCAR and stick to the UMP and Choline. Choline has always made me a little depressed at any dose, so I'm hoping the Uridine can prevent that while allowing me to keep the benefits of the choline.

[Dorian Grey]

It's a shame there is that connection between carnitine consumption, increased TMAO levels, and heart disease.

A good rebuttal to that theory from Chris Masterjohn PhD here:
http://www.westonapr...bolism-to-tmao/

Does Carnitine From Red Meat Contribute to Heart Disease Through Intestinal Bacterial Metabolism to TMAO?

Posted onApril 10, 2013by Chris Masterjohn

He is talking about carnitine in red meat here... Don't know if ALCAR would produce different results. I also wonder if much ALCAR would make it all the way to the colon where bacteria converts it to TMA/TMAO. ALCAR may be absorbed long before it reaches the colon.

Looks to me that if TMA/TMAO is bad, then most all fish/seafood is the real poison!

Edited by synesthesia, 26 November 2013 - 04:52 AM.

[Godof Smallthings]

Letting the ALCAR 'melt on the tongue' might be a way of avoiding any adverse effects of TMA/TMAO. And Chris Masterjohn's reply is well worth reading, I agree.

[Absent]

I couldn't put ALCAR under my tongue, the taste is too intense. I could barely get it down, lol.

I read some of the heart disease papers and it ALCAR intake and heart disease seems to be more closely connected to people with a red-meat consumption, compared to people who don't eat red meat having little risk/effect. I personally don't eat meat(as good as it is </3). I'm only doing a 2 week trial of ALCAR anyways, so I'll take my chances.

[normalizing]

siro, what is your current stack of things you take besides now ALCAR and from what i seen before being b12 ??

[Godof Smallthings]

I couldn't put ALCAR under my tongue, the taste is too intense. I could barely get it down, lol.

I read some of the heart disease papers and it ALCAR intake and heart disease seems to be more closely connected to people with a red-meat consumption, compared to people who don't eat red meat having little risk/effect. I personally don't eat meat(as good as it is </3). I'm only doing a 2 week trial of ALCAR anyways, so I'll take my chances.

For non-meat eaters, there is no problem with taking ALCAR.

Go ahead and don't worry. It is just us omnivores who *may* have cause for concern.

[Absent]

siro, what is your current stack of things you take besides now ALCAR and from what i seen before being b12 ??

My list presently:

Multivitamin
Methyl-B12 5000mcg Sublingual 2x per day
Cal/D3/Mag Supplement(333mg:200iu:133mg)
B-100 Vitamin - Has 100mg of choline as well, albiet, from the less effecient bitartrate form.
2000mg Fish Oil
1000(400x2 + 200 in multi) iu Vitamin E
Iodine ~35mg split between Potassium Iodide and Iodine(lugols 2%)
Zinc 50-100mg Daily on Empty Stomach
Vitamin A - 10,000iu
Beta Carotine - 25,000iu


60-180 mg Ginkgo Biloba (2-3 times per week)
200-400mg Panax Ginseng (2-3 times per week)
500mg Gotu Kola(1-2 per week, max, before sleep only, else it gives a tranquilizing/heavy anioxyltic effect during the day, which I dislike)

Recent Additions
200mg L-Theanine - Going to add this daily, since uridine prevents tolerance of itm and/or causes reverse tolerance, or so it seems.
150mg Uridine Monophosphate Sublingually(twice/thrice daily) - Seems to significantly increase sensitivity to L-Theanines effects, as well as doing other things.
1500-2000mg ALCAR

Adding today upon receiving in mail:
CDP Choline (100-200mg) - Going to play around with dosages to find sweet spot

[normalizing]

can i ask why take multivitamin and then take several vitamins, minerals seperately in higher doses ??

[Absent]

can i ask why take multivitamin and then take several vitamins, minerals seperately in higher doses ??

Multivitamin can only hold so many different ingredients. My diet isn't exactly the epitome of healthy, so I use a multi to cover some of what I miss on a daily basis.

The additional vitamins have dosages that are normal(albiet 100x that of the multi for particular ingredients), for various reasons. B-Vitamins for Energy, Vitamin A/Beta Carotine for skin/Eye health, Vitamin E for skin health, Zinc for skin health. Cal/D3/Mag for general awesomeness and Iodine complementary. Etc

[blood]

The additional vitamins have dosages that are normal(albiet 100x that of the multi for particular ingredients), for various reasons. B-Vitamins for Energy, Vitamin A/Beta Carotine for skin/Eye health, Vitamin E for skin health, Zinc for skin health. Cal/D3/Mag for general awesomeness and Iodine complementary. Etc

And with your multivitamin, Copper & Manganese for neurotoxicity - accelerated cognitive decline, maybe even Alzheimer's & Parkinson's.

Edited by blood, 28 November 2013 - 11:23 AM.

[Absent]

The additional vitamins have dosages that are normal(albiet 100x that of the multi for particular ingredients), for various reasons. B-Vitamins for Energy, Vitamin A/Beta Carotine for skin/Eye health, Vitamin E for skin health, Zinc for skin health. Cal/D3/Mag for general awesomeness and Iodine complementary. Etc

And with your multivitamin, Copper & Manganese for neurotoxicity - accelerated cognitive decline, maybe even Alzheimer's & Parkinson's.

Are you saying to add Copper and Manganese along with the Multi? I can't entirely tell if there's a sarcastic tone in your post.

[normalizing]

your multivitamin contains enough of the seperate vitamins you take. i really dont understand what you mean by a multivitamin can only hold that many ingredients. why dont you take extra doses of multivitamin and go easy on the extra seperate nutrients ? last i checked, a lot of multivatamins HAVE ENOUGH of the ones you take extra.

[Absent]

Multivitamins have a very minimal amount of required nutrients. A proper balanced diet of greens and all that jazz can easily compare to 5-10 multivitamins. The herein lies in the fact that if I take a bunch of multivitamins, I will be getting too many of certain nutrients, such a selenium.

Our bodies are capable of functioning on "enough" but can do much better with ample amounts of various nutrients. A multivitamin should be the bare foundation of anyones nootropic stack, and on top of that other supplements are added for various intended benefits. If taking a ton of multivitamins cold have the desired effects then I'm sure everyone would be doing that.

[niner]

The additional vitamins have dosages that are normal(albiet 100x that of the multi for particular ingredients), for various reasons. B-Vitamins for Energy, Vitamin A/Beta Carotine for skin/Eye health, Vitamin E for skin health, Zinc for skin health. Cal/D3/Mag for general awesomeness and Iodine complementary. Etc

And with your multivitamin, Copper & Manganese for neurotoxicity - accelerated cognitive decline, maybe even Alzheimer's & Parkinson's.

Are you saying to add Copper and Manganese along with the Multi? I can't entirely tell if there's a sarcastic tone in your post.

I guess it might be a little sarcastic. What blood means is that the copper and manganese (and iron, if it's there) in a lot of multis may be doing more harm than good, causing neurotoxicity etc. That's one of the reasons I don't use a multi. Most people shouldn't supplement copper. Deficiency is rare and excess is very bad.

[Absent]

The additional vitamins have dosages that are normal(albiet 100x that of the multi for particular ingredients), for various reasons. B-Vitamins for Energy, Vitamin A/Beta Carotine for skin/Eye health, Vitamin E for skin health, Zinc for skin health. Cal/D3/Mag for general awesomeness and Iodine complementary. Etc

And with your multivitamin, Copper & Manganese for neurotoxicity - accelerated cognitive decline, maybe even Alzheimer's & Parkinson's.

Are you saying to add Copper and Manganese along with the Multi? I can't entirely tell if there's a sarcastic tone in your post.

I guess it might be a little sarcastic. What blood means is that the copper and manganese (and iron, if it's there) in a lot of multis may be doing more harm than good, causing neurotoxicity etc. That's one of the reasons I don't use a multi. Most people shouldn't supplement copper. Deficiency is rare and excess is very bad.

Ah, that makes sense. It's also part of the reason I don't take more than one multi a day... but overall, I'm not afraid to admit that my diet is crap. I'm sure my body can benefit from everything in this multi :p. I was really against them for some time but since I started taking it, along with the other things I'm taking, I just feel overall better.

I may look into finding a multi without those, or order all the bulk ingredients from China and formulate my own multi-mix. It would certainly be worth the cost in the long run

[normalizing]

"Most people shouldn't supplement copper. Deficiency is rare and excess is very bad"

any amount of zinc from a diet or from multi and/or seperately will cause severe decline in copper. copper is in there to balance out with zinc which in even small amounts always interferes with copper bioaccumilation so i dont think its a bad idea to supplement copper from multis