693 replies to this topic

[Dstein]

Since nootropics depot rejected the Chinese suppliers, we should expect to pay considerably more than $600 per kg even if they would sell it to forum members at cost.

Not necessarily. NR is cheap and easy to make. You could make it at home (see the patent that I posted at the beginning of the thread). The suppliers are just taking advantage of the imbalance between supply and demand.

[longevist]

Ok, but it was my understanding that Nootropics Depot was sourcing the material, not manufacturing it. It was also my impression that most other price quotes we got was considerably higher than $600 ($2000-2500 or so). I also assume that Chinese suppliers are cheaper than US suppliers. Given all those assumptions, I don't see how Nootropics Depot is going to offer us a competitive price. I am not sure my previous post deserved a negative vote based on this logic. Of course, if ND have access to a GMP production facility and have decided to manufacture it themselves at a lower price, I am all for it!

More to the point, my previous post was primarily to support the idea of us getting together, purchasing and testing a smaller batch before deciding whether to trust Pioneer or not.

[midas]

Ok, but it was my understanding that Nootropics Depot was sourcing the material, not manufacturing it. It was also my impression that most other price quotes we got was considerably higher than $600 ($2000-2500 or so). I also assume that Chinese suppliers are cheaper than US suppliers. Given all those assumptions, I don't see how Nootropics Depot is going to offer us a competitive price. I am not sure my previous post deserved a negative vote based on this logic. Of course, if ND have access to a GMP production facility and have decided to manufacture it themselves at a lower price, I am all for it!

More to the point, my previous post was primarily to support the idea of us getting together, purchasing and testing a smaller batch before deciding whether to trust Pioneer or not.

+1

What I am finding quite amazing here is that their is a hell of a lot of interest in this group buy yet their doesn't seem to be any interest in making an effort to move forward with it.

This isn't just going to fall into our hands...and if by some chance it does it will be at a very inflated price.
Like I said before, the vast majority of supplements out there are manufactured using products from China so why should this be any different. Buying a sample and having it tested will not break the bank for any of us but will save some of us a lot of money in the long run if it turns out to be fake.

The only problem that I am seeing is how to get it tested, its not something I know about. But I thought that this forum would be able to come up with someone that knows how to go about this??

As far as it being easy to make, if that were the case, why is it so hard to get hold of....

[longevist]

I reviewed the thread and thought I would just sum up the various efforts being made. To my understanding...

Smithx has offered to test the material in exchange for 500 grams of the product.

It seems as if Nootropics Depot is indeed is aiming at synthesizing the product at a one off low cost to forum members, which is great. If this is a firm commitment they have made, it should be worth waiting for.

Rumpelstiltskin has been in contact with a reputable Chinese supplier who are willing to sell us a 25 kg drum for $80 kg + $75 shipping per person. If a well known forum member with a good reputation wants to speerhead the group buy, he has offered to submit the contact details of the supplier.

Personally, I am more than willing to invest $155 for a kilo from Rumpelstiltskin's supplier, who apparently is "one of the biggest in China with a good reputation". Does anyone with a good standing in this forum want to take the lead? I guess I could give it a try, but I have only been a member for 2 weeks. Also I would expect some customs and sales tax issues when receiving such a large order. Here in Sweden, shipments of supplements with a value above $30 are subject to sales tax of 25% for starters and possibly customs fees as well.

[ParMatrix]

My problem here is : We only trust suppliers whom we have personally vetted.
I don't want to see a bunch of money spent on fake product. The labs I have talked to have spoken of a shortage of riboside which is causing the price to be so high.
If someone has some suggestions I am open to hear some. Thanks guys!

Also, If we receive product we will be testing it for you guys. We have an in house lab and I will likely send it out to be tested as well. I will cover the cost of testing third party so no worries there.

[PWAIN]

The labs I have talked to have spoken of a shortage of riboside which is causing the price to be so high.

Sounds like a good reason for them to make a lot more (nice to know that you have already sold part of what you're going to make). I thought Chinese manufacturing was screaming out for more business with the global downturn still going on.

[midas]

My problem here is : We only trust suppliers whom we have personally vetted.
I don't want to see a bunch of money spent on fake product. The labs I have talked to have spoken of a shortage of riboside which is causing the price to be so high.
If someone has some suggestions I am open to hear some. Thanks guys!

Also, If we receive product we will be testing it for you guys. We have an in house lab and I will likely send it out to be tested as well. I will cover the cost of testing third party so no worries there.

That's great, the testing thing is sorted out, thanks ParMatrix...

So lets get a few of us together and get 100 Grams of this stuff ordered..I'm willing to put $20 towards this. Their is no point in me ordering it from here in the UK as I will have to pay import duty and tax on it and then send it to the US for testing. So we need someone in the US to order it ideally....At $20 each I think 10 of us raising $200 should cover the purchase and shipping...Lets get a list of 10 volunteers together that are willing to part with $20 in the aid of research..

1) Midas

[Geoffrey1]

My problem here is : We only trust suppliers whom we have personally vetted.
I don't want to see a bunch of money spent on fake product. The labs I have talked to have spoken of a shortage of riboside which is causing the price to be so high.
If someone has some suggestions I am open to hear some. Thanks guys!

Also, If we receive product we will be testing it for you guys. We have an in house lab and I will likely send it out to be tested as well. I will cover the cost of testing third party so no worries there.

That's great, the testing thing is sorted out, thanks ParMatrix...

So lets get a few of us together and get 100 Grams of this stuff ordered..I'm willing to put $20 towards this. Their is no point in me ordering it from here in the UK as I will have to pay import duty and tax on it and then send it to the US for testing. So we need someone in the US to order it ideally....At $20 each I think 10 of us raising $200 should cover the purchase and shipping...Lets get a list of 10 volunteers together that are willing to part with $20 in the aid of research..

1) Midas

i think he means if he gets the NR to sell
>> If we receive product we will be testing it for you guys.<<
not offering to test someone else's. Par. please clarify if you would.

[smithx]

The only real way to do that is get a third party lab company local In Xi'an. I gues I can see if Anson will send a sample of the current lot over once they are found and the lab gets paid. That might be good since they would probably be familiar with Pioneer.

I would not trust a lab in Xi'an. They could have contacts with the supplier and not wish to offend them.

I've done this before in 2 ways:

1) The supplier takes the risk and sends the order on Net-30 terms.
During the 30 day window, I have the compound tested by my own laboratory. If the results show the correct compound and purity, I pay the supplier. If not, they have to pay for my shipping cost to send it back (and they are not very happy about that usually).

2) A 3rd party escrow service is used.
I pay the escrow service, the supplier ships the order. I then have the compound tested again, and either tell the escrow service to release the money to the supplier, or I send the compound back. This is not as nice as the first method because:
- The escrow service takes a percentage of the price
- The escrow time may not be long enough to get the test done, depending on how busy the lab is (my lab can take up to 3 weeks)

I recommend doing it one of these two ways.

Again, if someone wants to organize a group buy, I will be happy to get the testing done here in the USA in exchange for some of the material.

[dpaxton]

This has been my point from the get go. If you see the range of products from a company then satisfy yourself on your personal vetting. That is of course what you are eating so make sure. There are a number of ways to test this internationally. You will have to decide. There is no make up on this. There are plenty of HPLC houses that can do this. I have some favors and can find some local or not so to do this. I am sure I can figure out some way to test things relative to a lot test that they do. It is a matter of what you are looking for. Do you want some one gram samples sent here and tested or do you need a lot test on what is ordered? Messing around with this is a matter of being a unexperienced buyer. If you are a supplement company how would you evaluate a new supplier and prove buying potential.

[Nattzor]

Any updates from noot depot?

[pedr0vsky]

Count me in for 250g. Maybe more, depends on the price.

Best Regards to everyone

[ParMatrix]

Someone get me some info on a company that looks legit. Email me at Online@parmatrix.com . I will order some and test it. =)

I don't care if someone else gets it. I will test it in our inhouse lab. It's easy. Hell, I don't care if someone organizes a group buy I'll cover the testing. No big deal.

[midas]

Again, if someone wants to organize a group buy, I will be happy to get the testing done here in the USA in exchange for some of the material.

I have $20-$30 sitting here waiting for another 6-9 people people to chime in so you can get 100 Grams sent to you for testing.....Trouble is no one else seems to want to get off their ass and do something about this....Come on guys!!!

WTF.... this just isn't going to drop in our laps, and if a few of us loose $20-$30, it aint no big deal......If you don't risk some pain you sure wont gain!

Someone get me some info on a company that looks legit. Email me at Online@parmatrix.com . I will order some and test it. =)

I don't care if someone else gets it. I will test it in our inhouse lab. It's easy. Hell, I don't care if someone organizes a group buy I'll cover the testing. No big deal.

What about dpaxton's source in China, seems to be the only one around right now?

I would have thought you would have been one of the first to jump on what I suggested above?

[PWAIN]

Again, if someone wants to organize a group buy, I will be happy to get the testing done here in the USA in exchange for some of the material.

I have $20-$30 sitting here waiting for another 6-9 people people to chime in so you can get 100 Grams sent to you for testing.....Trouble is no one else seems to want to get off their ass and do something about this....Come on guys!!!

WTF.... this just isn't going to drop in our laps, and if a few of us loose $20-$30, it aint no big deal......If you don't risk some pain you sure wont gain!

Someone get me some info on a company that looks legit. Email me at Online@parmatrix.com . I will order some and test it. =)

I don't care if someone else gets it. I will test it in our inhouse lab. It's easy. Hell, I don't care if someone organizes a group buy I'll cover the testing. No big deal.

What about dpaxton's source in China, seems to be the only one around right now?

I would have thought you would have been one of the first to jump on what I suggested above?

Count me in for $25 towards a sample to be brought (dxpaxtons china souce) and sent to parmatrix for testing. Setup a payitsquare with paypal payment option.

Come on who else is in?? Lets make this happen!!

[longevist]

I am also more than willing to contribute $ to parmatrix for the sample if he would do the testing. It is my understanding that dpaxton's source was both reputable and cheap, so if dpaxton could forward the contact details to parmatrix it would be great. Let's do this guys!

Edited by longevist, 21 March 2014 - 10:09 AM.

[nbourbaki]

I'm also willing to invest $25-30 to parmatrix to test a sample. Just let me know when we've reached critical mass to make this happen.

[ParMatrix]

Give me the info. No need for the money I'll shell out for 100 test grams.

[longevist]

Many thanks parmatrix, this simplifies everything a lot. Now, let's wait for Dpaxton to forward the info. Finally, something might happen

Edited by longevist, 21 March 2014 - 03:40 PM.

[dpaxton]

info forwarded. I thought is was already somewhere on this thread but could not find it.

[midas]

Great, so we have four stepping up as of right now, I think we need $200 to cover the 100 Grams at $150 and allowing $50 for shipping and so on..Another six at $20 each and we are there or another three to make it $210 at $30 each, lets get this rockin'

Midas (me)
PWAIN
longevist
nbourbaki

[tunt01]

Add me to the group. I'm not 100% clear on dosage and I ordered some Niagen to try it. But you can tentatively count me in for a ratable amount.

[abcmanomandriepunt1]

hmm i reacted a little bit too enthousiast in my previous post and i woud only like 100 gram, is that possible?

[midas]

Give me the info. No need for the money I'll shell out for 100 test grams.

I missed this post earlier when I posted that last post about a few of us getting the money together....

Thanks ParMatrix, that is a great offer, and very much appreciated

If a moderator/administrator wants to delete my last post that's fine by me....sorry for the confusion.

Edited by midas, 21 March 2014 - 10:35 PM.

[PWAIN]

So is this moving forward? Is Parmatrix ordering some for testing now? I would really like to get my hands on a good supply of this stuff.

[PWAIN]

I have been writing to the producer of Niagen. I have managed to get an agreement that if we can get together an order for 100 bottles, he is willing to do it for a price of $33.60 (30% off the retail price). Minimum order size would be 6 bottles ($201.60) but I am sure that if that is too much for some, they could split the order with someone else but postage would be to the one person. The advantage is this stuff is obviously tested and has a good reputation.

We need 17 orders of 6 bottles to get this off the ground. I will kick this off with an order of 12 bottles.

PWAIN x 2

Please post your interest here if you want to order and I will add you to the list. Heres hoping there is enough interest...

[nbourbaki]

I'm in for 6 bottles. I need to reorder soon and this would be a great discount for me.

[Geoffrey1]

I have been writing to the producer of Niagen. I have managed to get an agreement that if we can get together an order for 100 bottles, he is willing to do it for a price of $33.60 (30% off the retail price). Minimum order size would be 6 bottles ($201.60) but I am sure that if that is too much for some, they could split the order with someone else but postage would be to the one person. The advantage is this stuff is obviously tested and has a good reputation.

We need 17 orders of 6 bottles to get this off the ground. I will kick this off with an order of 12 bottles.

PWAIN x 2

Please post your interest here if you want to order and I will add you to the list. Heres hoping there is enough interest...

Your in a good position to find out the grade of the NR they are using. 2 grades available i am aware of:
Food grade which is fine for supplements is 60 % NR
USP grade is >99% NR.

I think Niagen would be using food grade----be good to find out.

The material from China analysis is >99% NR
we'll verify when Parmatrix tests: and it sounds like he is moving forward

Appreciate your efforts but still way over-inflated price-wise. One and a half grams per day essentially to (perhaps) replicate the life extension results someone here had calculated

If the material from China tests per the analysis already posted here by DPaxton worth waiting what i hope will be a short while for Parmatrix test results. Mega times better deal financially and was over 99% NR (99.4 if i remember correctly)

[BobSeitz]

I'll spring for 6 bottles. I'll still be interested in Parmatrix' group buy, but that may take a while. In the meantime, I'm running on Niagen.

[midas]

I have been writing to the producer of Niagen. I have managed to get an agreement that if we can get together an order for 100 bottles, he is willing to do it for a price of $33.60 (30% off the retail price). Minimum order size would be 6 bottles ($201.60) but I am sure that if that is too much for some, they could split the order with someone else but postage would be to the one person. The advantage is this stuff is obviously tested and has a good reputation.

We need 17 orders of 6 bottles to get this off the ground. I will kick this off with an order of 12 bottles.

PWAIN x 2

Please post your interest here if you want to order and I will add you to the list. Heres hoping there is enough interest...

It might be a good idea if you start another thread for a "Niagen" group buy with links to it on here, rather than clouding the issue of a bulk "Nicotinamide Riboside" group buy.