16 replies to this topic

[NanoDoom]

Hello,

This might be a silly question, but would topical application of c60 [in a neutral carrier oil] be considered anti-inflammatory?

[niner]

Maybe. What's a neutral carrier oil? An oil that C60 doesn't react with? If so, it probably wouldn't hold very much C60. Topical C60 might have a problem with photoreactivity that is unlikely to be a significant problem with systemic c60.

[katzenjammer]

Is there any reason to believe that topical use would be more effective for skin health and/or hair regrowth than oral?

[NanoDoom]

Maybe. What's a neutral carrier oil? An oil that C60 doesn't react with? If so, it probably wouldn't hold very much C60. Topical C60 might have a problem with photoreactivity that is unlikely to be a significant problem with systemic c60.

I wasn't being very accurate when I wrote 'neutral' carrier oil.
The reason I wrote that was that the oil I plan to use (jojoba) is not significantly anti-inflammatory enough for that to be a problem.

This might sound strange, but I'm looking for something that will not reduce inflammation greatly.
This has to do with wounding (dermarolling), where you want the inflammation to run its course as naturally as possible - and not stifle inflammation by introducing anti-inflammatory agents.
At the same time, dermarolling would introduce a good opportunity to get a lot of c60 into - and past - the epidermis.

Jojoba oil is not anti-inflammatory enough on its own to be a 'problem' in this case (carrier oil).
But if c60 is some kind of super anti-inflammatory, then, I think, it would be counterproductive to use in combination with dermarolling wounding.

@ photoreactivity: The oil would only be applied after sundown.
Unless standard light bulbs also cause a threat? I assumed it was only UV light that c60 had a problem with.

Is there any reason to believe that topical use would be more effective for skin health and/or hair regrowth than oral?

My reasoning is that you will invariably end up with delivering more c60 to the ares you are trying to treat (skin, hair follicles) by getting c60 to where you want it to end up.

Also, there's been a few anecdotal reports of people benefiting from topical applications.
The user Turnbuckle is one of them.

[niner]

hav dissolved C60 in jojoba oil, discussed in this thread. It appears to react with the oil the same way it does with olive oil. As far as c60 being anti-inflammatory, it probably wouldn't affect wound healing response, although I couldn't rule it out. It shouldn't have any effect on prostanoid pathways, but should be helpful at dealing with certain ROS, like superoxide. Whether or not superoxide has a role in wound healing I can't say, but my first guess would be that it's not important. There are ROS-related pathways involved in some forms of wound response, so this is ultimately something you'd just have to experiment with. As far as photoreactivity goes, you'll probably be ok if you stay out of the sun.

[NanoDoom]

Thank you, niner.
Very enlightening post[s] - as always.

I will go ahead with the experiment.

[hav]

Been using c60/jojoba topically and it seems to absorb into the skin after about an hour. As an experiment I smeared some onto an out of the way corner of a glass counter top and it just sat there for about 2 weeks before I wiped it off. So it doesn't evaporate.

I sometimes have patches of skin that go dry and feel like its been stuck by a needle which c60/jojoba alleviates and soothes. Have not tried jojoba alone yet for that. My sister likes c60/jojoba as a hair conditioner. Makes it waxy as opposed to oily which is a slightly different feel. Doesn't seem like it absorbs into hair strands, just the scalp. Haven't seen any hair growth effect but its only been a month... I always seem to apply c60/jojoba with my index finger tips and I don't see anything out of the ordinary there yet. Wonder if an anti-inflammatory effect might inhibit callus formation from guitar playing.

Howard

[NanoDoom]

Been using c60/jojoba topically and it seems to absorb into the skin after about an hour. As an experiment I smeared some onto an out of the way corner of a glass counter top and it just sat there for about 2 weeks before I wiped it off. So it doesn't evaporate.

I sometimes have patches of skin that go dry and feel like its been stuck by a needle which c60/jojoba alleviates and soothes. Have not tried jojoba alone yet for that. My sister likes c60/jojoba as a hair conditioner. Makes it waxy as opposed to oily which is a slightly different feel. Doesn't seem like it absorbs into hair strands, just the scalp. Haven't seen any hair growth effect but its only been a month... I always seem to apply c60/jojoba with my index finger tips and I don't see anything out of the ordinary there yet. Wonder if an anti-inflammatory effect might inhibit callus formation from guitar playing.

Howard

I vaguely recall reading something about jojoba oil not being a true oil - but rather some sort of wax.
That might explain why your sister feels its 'waxing' her hair.

Where have you been applying your c60-jojoba? Face and scalp?
Have you been avoiding UV light?


I'm thinking of infusing the jojoba oil with chaga and green tea extract [antioxidants] prior to dissolving c60 in it.

[niner]

I vaguely recall reading something about jojoba oil not being a true oil - but rather some sort of wax.
That might explain why your sister feels its 'waxing' her hair.

Jojoba is a monoester, so it's considered a true wax. Fats and oils are triesters of glycerol. There are also things called waxes and oils, like paraffin and motor oil, that are just long chain hydrocarbons, and are not esters at all. In that case, the definition of "wax" vs "oil" depends only on melting point, rather than chemistry.

[hav]

I've read that jojoba is technically a wax with a very low melting point. It is also pretty stable. I understand it is routinely used in the Middle East as a motor oil additive to extend its duty cycle. I suspect jojoba's uv stability alone may be good, given that its heat stability is so high. But c60's uv stability by itself is not. So the combo might not remain an effective antioxidant or anti-inflammatory for very long on the surface of uv-exposed skin. I don't know if it would function as a uv filter prior to being absorbed or if the changes it experienced in the process would limit absorption or create a toxic combination; I suspect at best that uv might turn c60 back into regular carbon. I also suspect uv does not penetrate into fatty layers beneath the skin to alter any c60 already imbedded there. But my inclination would be to use a sunscreen regardless.

I already had a bad sunburn experience on previously untanned/unprotected skin this past summer which a years worth of taking c60/evoo orally did little to prevent. Or heal very quickly. Indeed the healing seemed to take longer than any other sunburn experience in my memory. Fwiw, previously tanned skin did not burn in that incident. Maybe the controlled tanning/acclimation process helps make skin more uv damage resistant. But I think I'll keep using sunscreen anyway.

Howard

Edited by hav, 29 December 2013 - 06:56 PM.

[ClarkSims]

I have been meaning to post this, but never got around to doing so. My mixture of 66% c60 OO, with 33% orange oil (mainly limonene) is a great for dealing with repetitive motion injury. I am a professional programmer, and a part time triathlete / stair runner. I have RSI in both of my hands. When I coat my hands with the mixture, then wear latix gloves to keep the mixture on the hands, my hands feel great the next morning. When I don't do this, the joints frequently throb the next morning. For acute pain DMSO + water works better. I do the same for my right knee, which has an unstable patella. I use saran wrap to keep the liquid on the skin.

I should also mention, that I have mixed many other anti oxidants into both mixtures. For the C60 OO, I include Q10, resveratrol, alpha lipoic acid. For the DMSO I use ginger juice, green tea extract, ppq, NAC, resveratrol and alpha lipoic acid.

I should also mention that

[niner]

I also suspect uv does not penetrate into fatty layers beneath the skin to alter any c60 already imbedded there. But my inclination would be to use a sunscreen regardless.

I already had a bad sunburn experience on previously untanned/unprotected skin this past summer which a years worth of taking c60/evoo orally did little to prevent. Or heal very quickly. Indeed the healing seemed to take longer than any other sunburn experience in my memory. Fwiw, previously tanned skin did not burn in that incident. Maybe the controlled tanning/acclimation process helps make skin more uv damage resistant. But I think I'll keep using sunscreen anyway.

Sunscreens are a good idea even if you don't use c60. I'm curious about your sunburn experience- would you say that you had no protection at all from c60, or just less than you expected? Taking c60 over time isn't likely to be as important as the amount of (functional) c60 you have on board at the time of the UV exposure. C60 activity drops over time, so unless you are taking massive amounts, at some point you'll reach a steady state. This also presumes that your c60 remains active in the bottle without significant degradation. That's probably not a big problem unless you're sloppy about storage conditions, which would ideally be cool, dark, and anaerobic.

[hav]

The areas that got burned were pretty pale to start with, some on my legs near and above the ankles but the worst was on my back and hip above the waist area. It was very hot out and I was sweating allot and took my shirt off while cutting the lawn and then weeding for about 2-1/2 hours. I knew I should have applied some sunscreen but wasn't planning on being out that long. And figured c60 usage might provide some protection. The c60/evoo dosages I take are fairly high, about 45 ml (36 mg c60) bi-weekly for most of the year before that, maybe weekly for some of that period before going bi-weekly. Store in a dark cabinet in a dehumidified cool basement. I've burned on rare occasions in the past, typically turning a little pink on 1st exposure of the season, which usually turns into a tan by the next morning. This incident took weeks to heal. Could be an aging thing. When it didn't I heal after a day or two I started using aloe vera on it at night and sunscreen by day. It doesn't seem like c60 provided any protection.

I didn't get any burn at all on the face and arms which already had a light tan... which is consistent with my normal reaction before ever using c60. That's why I was wondering if maybe tanned skin acts like a uv filter. And untanned skin doesn't, and if unprotected by a sunscreen, might let enough uv through to fatty tissues beneath, turning any c60 there into a pro-oxidant. But I think the pro-oxidant part only makes sense if the tanned skin had no c60 embedded in it. Like if the c60/evoo embeds into fatty tissues right below the skin but not in the skin itself.

Howard

[blood]

Stumbled on this (C60?) fullerene topical lotion/ oil, while scouring Rakuten:

1) http://global.rakute.../item/t0020038/
2) http://global.rakute.../item/t0020038/

Product ingredients:

Product specification /
Ingredients: water, BG, 1 and 2-hexanediol, Fullerenes, and PVP
I02041/1
Capacity ：4.5g manufacturer name: Lenore Japan co., Ltd

The translation for the second link is a bit wonky - I liked this:

Fullerene component is also known as "Trouble absorbing sponge''...

[Turnbuckle]

If you use C60 topically, you should avoid UV exposure, and best to use it at night--

under light exposure, C60 is an efficient singlet oxygen sensitizer. Therefore, if pristine C60 is absolutely nontoxic under dark conditions, this is not the case under UV-Visible irradiation and in the presence of O2 where fullerene solutions can be highly toxic through 1O2 formation.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/18217343

Note that one of the authors is Moussa.

[NanoDoom]

If you use C60 topically, you should avoid UV exposure, and best to use it at night--

under light exposure, C60 is an efficient singlet oxygen sensitizer. Therefore, if pristine C60 is absolutely nontoxic under dark conditions, this is not the case under UV-Visible irradiation and in the presence of O2 where fullerene solutions can be highly toxic through 1O2 formation.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/18217343

Note that one of the authors is Moussa.

When you say night, do you mean use it only in darkness?
Or just avoid sunlight, meaning artificial light from indoor lighting is still OK?

[Turnbuckle]

If you use C60 topically, you should avoid UV exposure, and best to use it at night--

under light exposure, C60 is an efficient singlet oxygen sensitizer. Therefore, if pristine C60 is absolutely nontoxic under dark conditions, this is not the case under UV-Visible irradiation and in the presence of O2 where fullerene solutions can be highly toxic through 1O2 formation.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/18217343

Note that one of the authors is Moussa.

When you say night, do you mean use it only in darkness?
Or just avoid sunlight, meaning artificial light from indoor lighting is still OK?

See the quote above where Moussa says "UV-Visible." I don't have any information apart from that, except that olive oil itself is light sensitive.