11 replies to this topic

[lourdaud]

Has anyone tried a combo of d-cycloserine and baclofen (or a combo of substances with similar mechanisms of action)?
I suspect this may be a combo that would work very well for me but I feel it's uncertain whether it'd work long term.

[Ampamet]

I have never tried either drug, but have researched d-cycloserine significantly. I can provide you with more info on d-cycloserine depending on what you are trying to treat.

The GABA-B agonism from baclofen could lead to a nasty withdrawal should you discontinue taking it.

[lourdaud]

I have never tried either drug, but have researched d-cycloserine significantly. I can provide you with more info on d-cycloserine depending on what you are trying to treat.

The GABA-B agonism from baclofen could lead to a nasty withdrawal should you discontinue taking it.

Oh great! I want to try d-cycloserine for severe OCD but I'm worried about potential neurotoxicity. What are your thoughts on that?

[Ampamet]

So d-cycloserine is a NMDA glycine receptor partial agonist. You would need lower doses (around 100mg per most studies) for the glycine agonism useful in treating OCD. The only research I've found for d-cycloserine with OCD uses the drug as an adjunct to improve the effectiveness of exposure therapy. And the results are conflicting, possibly due to different dose sizes/timing.

As for neurotoxicity, I've only seen a few sources mention some kind of neurotoxic effects of d-cycloserine. I'm inclined to think the problem is way overblown. There are actually studies that show d-cycloserine can ameliorate amphetamine-induced neurotoxicity. I remember one source also said supplementing with Vitamin B6 and NAC (coincidentally also an OCD treatment) can mitigate any potential d-cycloserine neurotoxicity.

Have a look at this paper, it talks about OCD and the glutamatergic system:  OCD glutamatergic system.pdf   213.72KB   9 downloads

[haute]

Ampamet? Anyone? Is there a source for d-cycloserine or minocycline?

[Ampamet]

You can get both from a doctor; they are both prescription antibiotics. Minocycline is commonly prescribed for infections, and cycloserine (or seromycin, as it is called in medicine) is much less commonly prescribed for TB and UTIs. Chances are you would get either from a psych after showing them relevant study info. The tricky part is getting insurance to cover it. Antibiotics are usually prescribed short term and in doses that may or may not be the same as those needed for psychopharmacological use. So you would need to figure out something about that, particularly for cycloserine which is expensive. 

 

I have also seen foreign sources of cycloserine on alibaba and the like for decent prices. It's important to have any such products tested for purity before trying them. 

[lourdaud]

New Star Nootropics has it I believe.

[Ampamet]

New Star Nootropics has it I believe.

I don't see either on their website.

[haute]

Ok. Appreciate the quick reply Ampamet.

[Godof Smallthings]

Chances are you would get either from a psych after showing them relevant study info.

 

If I recall correctly, when I last looked over the studies, D-cycloserine on its own will not do much good unless you combine it with CBT.

 

And even in CBT, what differs is the initial speed of learning, whereas the end results at the end of treatment were similar for subjects on D-cycloserine + CBT vs. subjects on only CBT. It appears to cause increased plasticity, which would not be useful unless one engages in behaviour correcting activities. Not sure what such activities would be in OCD - the studies so far seem to have focused on anxiety, right?

[Ampamet]

 

Chances are you would get either from a psych after showing them relevant study info.

 

If I recall correctly, when I last looked over the studies, D-cycloserine on its own will not do much good unless you combine it with CBT.

 

And even in CBT, what differs is the initial speed of learning, whereas the end results at the end of treatment were similar for subjects on D-cycloserine + CBT vs. subjects on only CBT. It appears to cause increased plasticity, which would not be useful unless one engages in behaviour correcting activities. Not sure what such activities would be in OCD - the studies so far seem to have focused on anxiety, right?

 

That is one use of cycloserine, as an NMDA antagonist to augment exposure therapy. But it is actually a partial agonist of the glycine site on the NMDA receptor; at higher doses it has different pharmacological effects. At doses > 1000 mg per day, it exerts an antidepressant effect. Check out the study below.

 S1461145712000910a.pdf   122.87KB   28 downloads

[datrat]

New Mind nootropics has d-cycloserine.